What am I?

[ray1970]

So, it seems my opinions and ideology vary depending on the subject matter. I've always kind of considered myself a very liberal conservative if that makes any sense.

I don't believe government should tell people how to live. I believe hard work and ambition should be rewarded. I don't believe in free handouts for those who lack in the hard work or ambition department. I'm a firm supporter of my country's constitution and the principles on which it was founded.

But....

I also believe in gay marriage, the legalization of marijuana on a federal level, and I'm pro-choice when it comes to abortion. I also am very open minded when it comes to illegal immigrants. I feel they serve a valid role in our society.

Oh, and for the record, I don't partake in marijuana or participate in homosexuality and I'm not an immigrant. And I always vote Republican because most of the candidates usually make more sense than their Democratic counterparts. I've always found third party candidates who's ideas and beliefs were in line with mine but have always realized a vote for them wasn't really a viable or realistic option.

[Gman]

Confused? [Coffee]

Your views seem to be more libertarian than anything.

[Erni]

libertarian?

[Great-Kazoo]

So what you're saying is Don't get upset when we see a FEEL THE BERN sticker on your rifle case.











I'm like you as my "ideas & beliefs" don't run in line with any party. I'm not PC or tolerant of anyone who tries to ram an ideology down the peoples throat

[newracer]

I think you are the same as a large part of the population.

[fitz19d]

Chances are just the typical person as the parties themselves just cater to the extremes on either side.

FWIW pretty much the same, except I'd like to see a slow down or a bit more enforcement going on with immigration. Now that ICE in a lot of cases is not bothering to pickup for deportation persons detained on all sorts of crimes. (Larimer County Sheriff talking about the problem recently.) Seen too many cases of multiple DUI/no insurance. Ones getting out of jail with multiple serious crimes etc.

Likewise I started fairly ok pot whatever. And making it federally ok would probably help spread it out, but the explosion for right now of that industry has brought continued real estate rising costs, entire areas of town that reek. But more importantly while there may be a lot of taxes, commerce, and business/jobs. Theres also a bunch more homeless coming into the state than before, as well as a ton of mcdonalds day job, light crime by night younger crowd coming in too. So basically I think theres just too much of the shit tier of humanity that comes along with pot proliferation. Keep it banned, maybe misdemeanor it would help, but embracing openly I think only serves to promote these unhirable loser 20 somethings in our society.

For the last aside from seeing some statistics, I again get to see it. Listening and watching the people walking into social security and other benefits offices and watching the street traffic around dispensaries. I said it elsewhere but I'm sickened watching if lucky 1 out of 4 people on disability/ssi payments at all seeming like they be be in need of it. The rest are tatoo faced, all the money on cigs/alch, 200lbs overweight, or just plain normal but claim some unprovable condition.

[Gman]

I'm like you as my "ideas & beliefs" don't run in line with any party. I'm not PC or tolerant of anyone who tries to ram an ideology down the peoples throatWe understand the importance of limited government that isn't constantly affecting our lives. We want to be left alone to live our lives.

[ray1970]

Likewise I started fairly ok pot whatever. And making it federally ok would probably help spread it out, but the explosion for right now of that industry has brought continued real estate rising costs, entire areas of town that reek. But more importantly while there may be a lot of taxes, commerce, and business/jobs. Theres also a bunch more homeless coming into the state than before, as well as a ton of mcdonalds day job, light crime by night younger crowd coming in too. So basically I think theres just too much of the shit tier of humanity that comes along with pot proliferation. Keep it banned, maybe misdemeanor it would help, but embracing openly I think only serves to promote these unhirable loser 20 somethings in our society.


You pointed out some of the reasons I support federal legalization of it. Colorado wouldn't be seeing people swarm here for the whole marijuana thing if it were legal everywhere.

Personally, I don't feel marijuana legalization would be any worse than the alcohol that is already legal. And the revenue generated from it on a federal level could go towards something like reducing the national deficit.

[HoneyBadger]

Sounds like you're solidly Independent! It's okay to not be a part of the major two parties, and it's also okay to occasionally vote for one of them. [Coffee]


Being libertarian is about principle, not hand-picked platform stances. You cannot pick and choose which aspects of life you wish to apply and stand by the principles of liberty - That's why there should not be any logical or philosophical inconsistencies in the (L) party platform, but there are several in both (R) and (D) platforms.

[TEAMRICO]

Same up top BUT....
I don't support gay marriage. Those adopted kids did not have a say.
I don't support abortion payed for by tax payer funds, you pay for it out of pocket until you finally get it! Nobody is denying you access to birth control.
I don't support MJ because I have seen what it does to school age kids.
I do NOT support ILLEGAL ALIENS! Stop sucking off my kids future, come here legally or make a change in your own damn country.
Yeah it's a hardline stance but that's me.
I'm not coming nicer need about hurting feeling, they don't care about mine.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Your views are pretty close to mine with the exception of illegal immigration. I'd be a full on libertarian if it weren't for their views on foreign policy. Regardless I wouldn't worry too much about defining yourself with a political party.

[Danimal]

I don't support gay marriage, marijuana or abortion, I support everyone's right to do whatever the hell they want with their personal lives. Illegal immigration is just that, illegal. With that said there needs to be immigration reform so that those that come to this country to work can easily do so, and pay the taxes that go along with it.

Abortion is a hard line for me. It is easy to win an argument with anyone showing that it is morally impermissible. But at the same time there are studies that support that the recent drop in crime can be attributed to the roe v wade decision in the 70s. Turns out when liberal inner city women are allowed abortions, there are less criminals in the future.

[ray1970]

Since the illegal immigration seems to be a sore spot for some, here's my take on it.

First, I think if the process to come into our country legally wasn't such a difficult, drawn out process we wouldn't have such a problem with people coming here illegally.

Also, it isn't like they are coming here taking all of the good, high paying jobs. They are doing crappy jobs that most people aren't willing to do and they are doing it for peanuts. As politically incorrect as this sounds, they are essentially our new version of slave labor. It helps to keep cost of living down in our country. For those of you who already think things like groceries and housing are too expensive, imagine what those types of things would cost without the cheap labor provided by immigrant workers.

I do fully support sending the bad apples back to their own country rather than returning them to our society. I also don't believe they should receive any of the benefits normally afforded to citizens of this country. But, my experience has been that most of them are here to work and provide a better life for themselves and their families and I find it hard to fault someone for that.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't believe government should tell people how to live. I believe hard work and ambition should be rewarded. I don't believe in free handouts for those who lack in the hard work or ambition department. I'm a firm supporter of my country's constitution and the principles on which it was founded.

But....

I also believe in gay marriage, the legalization of marijuana on a federal level, and I'm pro-choice when it comes to abortion. I also am very open minded when it comes to illegal immigrants. I feel they serve a valid role in our society.

OK, I wanna make it clear I'm not knocking you personally for your beliefs. I would like to offer my opinion on what I feel are some glaring inconsistencies with what you're saying you believe in, though.

I'm having a really hard time reconciling your statement that you believe in the principles on which the country was founded and the Constitution and you believe in rewarding hard work and ambition, government shouldn't tell people how to live, abortion should be a choice and illegal immigration is OK for the most part.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the power people in our government and our society who ALWAYS tell you and me, and in many cases FORCE us, how to live our lives are the very people who support many of those things you mention and force you and I to pay for them and to suffer the consequences of them. They don't believe in hard work and think the fruits of your labor and mine should be given to those who will not work to support themselves. They don't give a rat's ass about the Constitution nor the founding principles that delivered that wonderful, world-altering document to us.

They believe in bullying and forcing those beliefs upon the rest of us (for example the gay marriage thing) and telling us we must accept them. These are the people you support by supporting these things.

It's a moral choice, really, but we can't have it both ways. If you believe violating our laws is OK, you can't support the Constitution and our founding principles. You can't support people who take from producers to give to non-producers and say you support our Constitution and founding principles, hard work and ambition and so on. Frankly, you can't say you support abortion and say you support our founding principles. Do you think the people that run Planned Parenthood (even the name is one of the biggest lives ever told) care about "unalienable rights" and "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the lives of those they're destroying?

Yeah...I'm gonna go with confused. Or maybe I'm the one that's confused. But a lot of these choices seem pretty clear to me.

[Ridge]

You sound Libertarian to me. I agree with you on everything except immigration. I agree that legal immigration to the US is a pain, but it has to be. Millions and millions of people want to get in, but the nation cannot support everyone. It's an employer's market at that point.

As for foreign policy, I'd actually like a period of isolationism. Get things sorted out at home, and remind the world of all the good we bring to the table. From foreign aid, to national security to almost every nation on the planet. The US gets bitched at for getting involved in things, and then gets bitched at again for not doing anything when people are hurt. I say wash our hands of it and step away for a couple years so that the world can be reminded of what it would be like without our military, economic and cultural might.

[vossman]

I agree with what HB said. You are an independent person. You think and make decisions for yourself.

[RblDiver]

Yup, I'd go with libertarian. Generally speaking, my understanding of libertarian is that it's basically "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" sort of thing, advocating for smaller government, etc.

I myself think I'm a conservatarian. That is, a conservative-libertarian. So, while I don't agree with gay marriage, I don't think it's the government's job to dictate one way or the other. I don't personally use nor see the point of marijuana, but again, I don't mind those who do so long as it's done in a responsible manner. That sort of thing.

[Jamnanc]

I have the answer. You are a conservative with loose morals. What do I win?

Immigration needs reformed, but the border needs to be closed or it's a joke anyway.

[ruthabagah]

Kind of agree on some of your point but on immigration you are wrong: Illegal immigration need to be stopped. When we do, then we can promote better form of legal immigration.

Now the root of the problem is the lack of controls/accountability we place on small business in regards checking the employment status of their employees. People are illegally coming in this country because they know they can easily find a job.... let's cut this.

[HoneyBadger]

Yup, I'd go with libertarian. Generally speaking, my understanding of libertarian is that it's basically "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" sort of thing, advocating for smaller government, etc.

I myself think I'm a conservatarian. That is, a conservative-libertarian. So, while I don't agree with gay marriage, I don't think it's the government's job to dictate one way or the other. I don't personally use nor see the point of marijuana, but again, I don't mind those who do so long as it's done in a responsible manner. That sort of thing.

No reason why you can't be libertarian - I disagree with abortion, drug use, homosexuality, etc., but I do not believe it is the government's job to regulate or define these things... And that's why I generally consider myself libertarian (I'm a registered republican so I can vote in primaries).

The Republican candidates are all saying lots of libertarian stuff in the debates - even Christie was shouting out libertarian talking points, but the real problem is the lack of follow through at the end of the day. I fear that all of them except for Rand Paul (and maybe Ted Cruz) are just pandering to what the establishment knows as the libertarian-leaning Republicans. I also like Ben Carson because he is more of a "Republican-leaning Independent", but he is so obviously pandering to what the party thinks the typical Republican is, that it's painful to watch. Anyway, enough about the primaries, and back to analyzing Ray's personal life. :D

[Jamnanc]

Kind of agree on some of your point but on immigration you are wrong: Illegal immigration need to be stopped. When we do, then we can promote better form of legal immigration.

Now the root of the problem is the lack of controls/accountability we place on small business in regards checking the employment status of their employees. People are illegally coming in this country because they know they can easily find a job.... let's cut this.

Small businesses tend to e-verify. Passing the onus of proof onto small business is ridiculous. It's not a myth that young Americans don't want to work hard with their hands. You will drive up the cost of construction and cause labor shortages if we go with your plan.

[hurley842002]

Small businesses tend to e-verify. Passing the onus of proof onto small business is ridiculous. It's not a myth that young Americans don't want to work hard with their hands. You will drive up the cost of construction and cause labor shortages if we go with your plan.

True story, a mere 13 years ago when I was a young buck right out of high school, I worked on a crew of about 12, laying pipe. Another young white guy and myself were the only two that didn't use Spanish as our primary language. I don't know legally what their status was, but all of their families lived South of the US.

I know what I believe, but I'd be lying if I said I had anything anywhere close to a solution for our illegal immigrant problem. Props to anyone that has a well thought out and viable solution to the current problem.

[HBARleatherneck]

People say Americans dont want to do ........jobs. I agree and I disagree.

I think it might have happened like this.
One day long ago a crew was framing up a house. This was a crew of all Americans. One day "John Jones" got into a severe traffic accident and couldnt go to work. The crew was short one man and the boss had a friend that knew a Mexican national that wasnt busy that day. "Jose" filled in for "John" for the next two weeks until "John" was healed up. Now during this time the unscruplous boss found out he could pay "Jose" next to nothing and he still worked hard. Well as employees left over the years the unscruplous boss went to hiring only Mexican nationals so he could pay them very low wages. Now no American can come to work at that company because the wages are now so low. No American who wants to own a home and nice things can afford to work for so low pay.

I dont think Americans dont want to do the jobs everyone says. I think they dont want to do them without "fair" pay.

And if you think Illegals are picking crops, you have never left the city. Very few crops are picked by illegals anymore. They may come here under that guise, but the next season they are in the tire shops, trucking industry, metal and welding shops. Then the liberals are wanting to educate them so they have better lives where they can do the jobs Americans do now. Someday we will have to leave the country to find work.

Close the borders, if you want to figure out immigration. Close the borders, do not allow illegals to draw any benefits. period. Then you can try to "fix" the problem.


Dont misunderstand me, I didnt say no immigration, just no ILLEGAL immigration. We cant have people running around our country that we dont even know who they are. If you come here legally, we need to know who you are. I think... We need to know you dont have a communicable disease. We need to know about you. We shouldnt have unknowns coming to our country and then just disappearing into the populace. Im no expert be do we need more low level employees at this point. If we have 12-20 million illegals, I bet we have enough to take care of that.
all of this would need serious work to fix, but none of it can be fixed without securing our borders, ports and airports. (no birth tourism either)

[ZERO THEORY]

I like you, Ray. We're like two peas in a pod. Agreed on all accounts.


Same up top BUT....
I don't support gay marriage. Those adopted kids did not have a say.
I don't support abortion payed for by tax payer funds, you pay for it out of pocket until you finally get it! Nobody is denying you access to birth control.
I don't support MJ because I have seen what it does to school age kids.
I do NOT support ILLEGAL ALIENS! Stop sucking off my kids future, come here legally or make a change in your own damn country.
Yeah it's a hardline stance but that's me.
I'm not coming nicer need about hurting feeling, they don't care about mine.

I'll be the illegal immigrant guy on this board, if need be.

Unless your kids' future is being an excavator's assistant (spraying the hose on the dirt when it's processed) or being a framer's assistant for $12/hour, illegal immigrants aren't taking anything away from them. Stop welfare handouts for citizens and illegals alike and you save the money that taxpayers are funneling to the lazy on both sides of the citizenship debate. Tax fraud is also a multi-citizenship issue. These fables about illegals being handed the keys to the city are laughable.

I am not for open borders. The people who want to make more cash in El Paso or Denver than in Chihuaha and skip immigration to do so can go right back. But it's disgusting to hear so-called believers in the American foundation turn a blind eye to political and drug refugees. You know, the same way early Englishmen illegally immigrated here to escape oppression. Here's a little scenario that might provide insight to a couple hundred thousand El Salvadorian illegals:

-You can't buy a firearm to defend yourself because gun control is keeping your country "safe". The federal police are so deep in the pockets of the drug cartels and international gangs like MS13 that you literally couldn't get them to come and help you in the event something happened. And that says nothing about the corrupt ones who come and extort every last dollar you make. If you're lucky, they won't rape your teenage daughter in front of you. You can either flee to America and hope to find asylum and citizenship, or you can stay in hell all in the name of citizenship morality.

[davsel]

Uninformed and morally uncertain.

[ruthabagah]

You will drive up the cost of construction and cause labor shortages if we go with your plan.

Short term increase, vs long term having to deal with the effect of an out of control illegal immigration.

How much do you think we are already paying in increased healthcare cost, school and state tax to support the illegals? Just check how So Cal public system is currently collapsing.

At the end, the small business owner who knowingly hire illegal immigrants to boost his profit line, need to pay.

[HBARleatherneck]

I agree


Short term increase, vs long term having to deal with the effect of an out of control illegal immigration.

How much do you think we are already paying in increased healthcare cost, school and state tax to support the illegals? Just check how So Cal public system is currently collapsing.

At the end, the small business owner who knowingly hire illegal immigrants to boost his profit line, need to pay.

[asmo]

Straight up libertarian. Or historical republican (before the religious invasion).

[ray1970]

And if you think Illegals are picking crops, you have never left the city. Very few crops are picked by illegals anymore.

We're going to have to disagree on this one. I do leave the city. Frequently. And all I see in the fields around Brighton, Fort Lupton, and Greeley are Mexicans.

[Coffee]

[HBARleatherneck]

that statement wasnt directed at anyone in particular.

maybe they are out there 2 or 3 times a year. and very few crops. you may see them doing the irrigating in between times, because farmers are the biggest abusers. "we didnt have but 1 kid and they moved to the city and we dont want to pay anyone any kind of money, so we hire illegals"


and of course there will always be SOME in agriculture, Im saying dont buy the line that we need them or we will all starve. that isnt true. we could run county jail chain gangs.

[Bailey Guns]

You know, the same way early Englishmen illegally immigrated here to escape oppression.

Really? So they were violating our immigration laws when there wasn't even a country here? No...it's not the same thing.

[ray1970]

we could run county jail chain gangs.

I'd go for that.

Of course, technically, that might still mean there would be quite a few Mexicans working the fields.
[Coffee]

[Jamnanc]

IT IS A WORK ETHIC PROBLEM GOOGLE "PROTESTANT WORK ETHIC", we all want what's best for our kids. The concept that working a shovel, or saw, or hammer, is a bad thing is ingrained into all but the "redneck" community. Everything costs more when labor costs more.

Close the borders, stop paying people not to farm, stop monetizing debt, let some hardship come to those not willing to work, accept that we aren't equal, except under the law, and let the market do its thing. I don't disagree with the last four posts, but we as a nation need to accept that this will be painful. Programmers will be plumbers, salesman will pick beans, and housing and commercial prices will go up.

[HBARleatherneck]

the problem is also.

these stats are from the US census

1900
Rural Americans 60.4%
Urban Americans 39.6%

1990
Rural Americans 26.4%
Urban Americans 73.6%

everyone left the farm for an easy city life. now we need to import workers.

by that I mean people want a job doing no manual labor and only non physical work.

[Ah Pook]

OP sounds Libertarian. Yes, I agree with most of what he said.

As said before, I have an equal disdain for both of the ruling parties. Neither speaks for me or most of the people I know (both bleeding hearts or knuckle draggers).

Immigration has become such a hot button. It's nothing new. Letting people work in the U.S. has become harder. There are jobs that "our" people will not do. We have had "open" borders for years with little problems. Why is it now a problem? I'm not talking drugs and gangs. Those are our (as a nation) own creation.

Come to Boulder, or any front range town, and walk into any fast food joint. I doubt you will see a gringo behind the counter.

How any white people showed up for jobs, at Swift, after the immigration stings a few years ago? Swift brought in Samalies. But the welfare roles are growing.

A woman can choose to defend herself with a firearm but making a choice about her own body/life is taboo?

People fall down and need a hand getting up. That does not equate into a lifelong lifestyle.

At least the govt, in the '30s, was smart enough to figure out prohibition didn't work. Why is it so hard today?

Keep your hands off my rights and out of my bedroom and we will get along. The larger the govt, the more it needs to feed.

"Control is controlled by it's need to control."
William S. Burroughs

[Calculated]

While if I had to choose I'd go conservative, I agree with what you've said Ray. I don't care what other people do with their bodies and lives as long as it doesn't affect me, and there's very few situations where that happens. I want my son to grow up to be whatever he wants to be, and I want to live my life without being told what I can and can't do. If you're pulling your own weight in society, you should be free to make your own decisions. This is America for fuks sake. It really seems like there's no voice for the average man in politics or government, and it's a shame..

[OtterbatHellcat]

I'm pretty much where you're at, Ray.

I wasn't when I was younger, but I am nowadays.

[Jer]

So, it seems my opinions and ideology vary depending on the subject matter. I've always kind of considered myself a very liberal conservative if that makes any sense.

I don't believe government should tell people how to live. I believe hard work and ambition should be rewarded. I don't believe in free handouts for those who lack in the hard work or ambition department. I'm a firm supporter of my country's constitution and the principles on which it was founded.

But....

I also believe in gay marriage, the legalization of marijuana on a federal level, and I'm pro-choice when it comes to abortion. I also am very open minded when it comes to illegal immigrants. I feel they serve a valid role in our society.

Oh, and for the record, I don't partake in marijuana or participate in homosexuality and I'm not an immigrant. And I always vote Republican because most of the candidates usually make more sense than their Democratic counterparts. I've always found third party candidates who's ideas and beliefs were in line with mine but have always realized a vote for them wasn't really a viable or realistic option.

Sounds nearly identical to most of my opinions on those topics & I think I most closely identify w/the Libertarian party although I hate being labeled. If you insist on labeling me I prefer American. I want to make up my mind on individual topics on my own as they come & not feel like I have to follow what a group thinks. That shit is lame.

[jhood001]

Sounds nearly identical to most of my opinions on those topics & I think I most closely identify w/the Libertarian party although I hate being labeled. If you insist on labeling me I prefer American. I want to make up my mind on individual topics on my own as they come & not feel like I have to follow what a group thinks. That shit is lame.

But, but, but.... what will you do without a party? How will you ever be heard? How will you possibly move through life without fear if you don't have others who share your exact ideals?

Your solitary stance terrifies me. But keep it up long enough and some of us might become brave enough to follow.

FREEDOM is the only 'party'.

Great post.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Librublicans?

lol

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm pretty much where you're at, Ray.

I wasn't when I was younger, but I am nowadays.

A liberal is a Conservative who hasn't been mugged, yet.

[BPTactical]

Why worry about what you "are".
Be you.

[Jer]

But, but, but.... what will you do without a party? How will you ever be heard? How will you possibly move through life without fear if you don't have others who share your exact ideals?

Your solitary stance terrifies me. But keep it up long enough and some of us might become brave enough to follow.

FREEDOM is the only 'party'.

Great post.

Thanks. Labels just make it so someone doesn't have to actually talk to you and ask intelligible questions to see who you are as a person. I pride myself in the fact that I'm tough to put a label on and if you want to know what I'm about you need to actually ask me. Chances are good I will side with personal freedom whether I personally agree with it or not. It amazes me how in this day & age that's a rarity in the 'freest nation on earth' when someone like me stands out as unique. I just wish more people cared about everyone's freedom as much as they do pushing their own agenda onto everyone else. To me it's not bravery as you put it but what's right.

[Irving]

I am not for open borders. The people who want to make more cash in El Paso or Denver than in Chihuaha and skip immigration to do so can go right back. But it's disgusting to hear so-called believers in the American foundation turn a blind eye to political and drug refugees. You know, the same way early Englishmen illegally immigrated here to escape oppression. Here's a little scenario that might provide insight to a couple hundred thousand El Salvadorian illegals:

-You can't buy a firearm to defend yourself because gun control is keeping your country "safe". The federal police are so deep in the pockets of the drug cartels and international gangs like MS13 that you literally couldn't get them to come and help you in the event something happened. And that says nothing about the corrupt ones who come and extort every last dollar you make. If you're lucky, they won't rape your teenage daughter in front of you. You can either flee to America and hope to find asylum and citizenship, or you can stay in hell all in the name of citizenship morality.


I also get annoyed at people assuming that the only reason people come here is because they think that they can get free stuff. I've got a pretty good article from NPR about what is currently going on in El Salvador. I was going to post the same thing, but realized that how people portray immigrants isn't really part of the immigration issue. Regardless of the fact that many people come here to literally save their lives, and are grateful to have just survived the trip, that doesn't really change the fact that we still have an immigration issue. Summary, terrible stuff is happening in other countries, but even if it weren't, we'd still have an immigration problem. If people with nothing but the shirts on their backs can get here, then people with ill intent the shirt on their back, plus any other resources can get here just as easily.

[SamuraiCO]

So, it seems my opinions and ideology vary depending on the subject matter. I've always kind of considered myself a very liberal conservative if that makes any sense.

I don't believe government should tell people how to live. I believe hard work and ambition should be rewarded. I don't believe in free handouts for those who lack in the hard work or ambition department. I'm a firm supporter of my country's constitution and the principles on which it was founded.

But....

I also believe in gay marriage, the legalization of marijuana on a federal level, and I'm pro-choice when it comes to abortion. I also am very open minded when it comes to illegal immigrants. I feel they serve a valid role in our society.

Oh, and for the record, I don't partake in marijuana or participate in homosexuality and I'm not an immigrant. And I always vote Republican because most of the candidates usually make more sense than their Democratic counterparts. I've always found third party candidates who's ideas and beliefs were in line with mine but have always realized a vote for them wasn't really a viable or realistic option.

More libertarian but still American.

Right now illegal immigration is crushing State budgets with financial and social support. Dems are trying to figure out how to give them "rights" which includes voting. Not sure how they will come down on the 2nd amendment but most polls I have seen they are not to crazy about it. Illegal immigration needs to stop now. Need to firmly secure the border. I don't think the Gov bureaucrats who run the immigration department really want to fix it. They are Gov union, like big Gov and typically vote Dem.

Solution....have Hillsdale college create a oral and written test based on their 10 part video series on the constitution. Those who want can pay a fee and take test. Having watched those videos (free by the way if you want something to stream while reloading etc) I firmly believe most would have a greater understanding of our country above and beyond the naturalization test and process.

I have no problem with gay unions but that was never the end game. Just like "sensible gun laws" are not about making society safer but steps to remove firearms from society once and for all. Gay marriage is about challenging religious doctrine and forcing institutions to perform Gay marriage ceremonies to further force acceptance. This will happen in the near future. And just like Dem unions such as police and mining/welders have been thrown under the bus by those in the Dem party who are big environmental wackos there will be an equal collision when gay activists challenge not Christian religion but Muslim doctrine.

MJ is still class I narcotic and this is another example of the Fed Gov ignoring laws on the books. From a constitutional standpoint it is wrong. Either have the DEA reclassify MJ or take states to court to stop their illegal activity. Does the DEA want to do that and risk budget cuts? Right now their budget goes up every year and they do not have to enforce MJ laws because the AG does not care about these laws. Right now our state is enabling others from surrounding states get product and take back for illegal sale creating a black market business and other headaches for our neighbors.

Again we are a country of laws. One thing that the constitution was to do and a function of Gov is to ensure equal rights under the law. We all get very offended when money and power influences decision making processes and it is clearly at work controlling Gov spending. It is the Quid Pro Quo that is occurring with political donations. As long as there is money in DC to go after there will be money for elections and no laws will change that. Only shrinking Gov spending will accomplish this but that will never occur if those receiving largess from the Gov outnumber those who pay and we are very close to that point.

[fitz19d]

While I'm not a fan of the immigration situation. (The swift thing expains why weekly theres some .org guy bringing in multiple big families of somali's to the greeley ssa office)

Have any hard numbers on illegals on state budgets? I mean they can't just walk in and get a ssa card. Seen them needing forms. Not sure how lax state programs are, but while theres money going out, I dont think it's as big as you think.

I think the bigger drain atm is the amount of shit hole human beings that are selling EBT card money, on iphones, and claiming bizzare disabilities that takes 10 years to possibly get them rejected off of. When I'm @ ssa, it's these degenerates I see a lot more of for wellfare/income stuff than the immigrants (who are usually there with .doc replacing ss cards and the like.)

[sampson]

Interesting take on Liberty..

[The Survival Podcast] Episode-1646- Let’s Talk About Liberty => http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/survivalpcast/~5/91_4OnRb1n8/epi-1646-liberty.mp3 via @PodcastAddict

Fast forward to about 8 mins to get past commercials

Edit...its 10min 25 seconds to fast forward to

[ANADRILL]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz

[ZERO THEORY]

I also get annoyed at people assuming that the only reason people come here is because they think that they can get free stuff. I've got a pretty good article from NPR about what is currently going on in El Salvador. I was going to post the same thing, but realized that how people portray immigrants isn't really part of the immigration issue. Regardless of the fact that many people come here to literally save their lives, and are grateful to have just survived the trip, that doesn't really change the fact that we still have an immigration issue. Summary, terrible stuff is happening in other countries, but even if it weren't, we'd still have an immigration problem. If people with nothing but the shirts on their backs can get here, then people with ill intent the shirt on their back, plus any other resources can get here just as easily.

Agreed. It's a HUGE issue. Especially when you have people from peaceful regions of Mexico or Honduras claiming that they're facing imminent death, when in reality, they're living a quiet life that's equatable to our lower class. That is a problem of their native country's economical and social policy, not a burden of the American taxpayer or system. But nothing in life is black and white, so I think we should be looking at viable options for the grey area of people genuinely under duress.


While I'm not a fan of the immigration situation. (The swift thing expains why weekly theres some .org guy bringing in multiple big families of somali's to the greeley ssa office)

Have any hard numbers on illegals on state budgets? I mean they can't just walk in and get a ssa card. Seen them needing forms. Not sure how lax state programs are, but while theres money going out, I dont think it's as big as you think.

I think the bigger drain atm is the amount of shit hole human beings that are selling EBT card money, on iphones, and claiming bizzare disabilities that takes 10 years to possibly get them rejected off of. When I'm @ ssa, it's these degenerates I see a lot more of for wellfare/income stuff than the immigrants (who are usually there with .doc replacing ss cards and the like.)

Agreed here, as well. The stories about illegal immigrants being given SSNs and $2500/month with no questions asked are so stupid that it's actually comical.

Regarding the EBT and welfare issue...where to begin? The fact that Burger King will blatantly display "EBT ACCEPTED HERE" is infuriating. EBT: EATING. BETTER. TODAY. We need to go back to pure food stamps that work only on leafy greens, fruit, whole grains, raw dairy, basic starches, and lean meats. It boils my blood when I see these jabronis buying Doritos, Coke, and Pop Tarts with taxpayer money. As for their eligibility-permanent disability should really be the only qualifier. And I mean real disability; quadraplegics and disabled veterans, not obese people who can't be bothered to take five steps.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I've nothing to add other than you're my hero for saying 'jabroni'. But to keep it on topic, agreed Zero.

[Irving]

That Zero Theory sure has moxy!

[MarkCO]

To the OP, honestly, i think you are one of the types of people that is unraveling the Republican party. Namely a social liberal and a financial conservative. I would argue that you are not a "firm supporter" of the founding principles of the constitution however. When Federal Government ignored state rights and passed several laws which you likely support, the constitution was violated and continues to be violated more and more every day. I am not being critical of your stances, they are yours and your right to have. But some of them are counter to the founding principles of the Constitution. The constitution is not sacred and must be supported in whole or nothing, but, at least today, it is still "assumed" as the law of the land even though many aspects of it are being violated.

Gay marriage is a farce. When the congress passed the "defense of marriage act", or even before when they gave married couples preferential treatment, the constitution was violated. Gay marriage is a platform that, from the legal side, seeks to place same sex couples on the same footing as traditionally married couples. Newsflash...marriage is NOT in the constitution and it is NOT enumerated as a protected right. Furthermore, the jurisdiction for marriage is at the state level, NOT the Federal level under the constitution. So passing a law to right the perceived inequality created by unjust laws and regulations is still an illegal law. We just have no politicians willing to call a spade a spade and fight for state rights to return the issue of marriage to the state level. America has tried to legislate morality and export democracy by force. Even if I agree with the "goals" the delivery method has been wrong way too often. The reaction of late has been to legislate amorality. It is all surface level bandaids refusing to deal with the root cause. You can not force a man to be good...you can only bring to bear penalties for evil which harms another person or their property. A lot of this blame lies in legalism in the American church, which when it fails to effect positive change, is angered and attempts to force change through legislation. It is a history lesson that humans refuse to learn as a majority.

Abortion is a moral issue. If you think life is valuable then you have to make a choice. Does life start when a human is conceived, has a brain wave, has a heartbeat. leaves the mothers body, or when it can fend for itself. There is no doubt that a baby inside the womb is living and is also dependant on the mothers body. But to you who think humans have no soul, then why can we not kill the guy who cuts us off in traffic? I can shoot the deer on the side of a hill and a doctor can kill a baby in the womb. Is any human who can not speak or fight for their rights okay to kill? If you believe humans have a soul, when does that soul "arrive" in a human. Yes, I believe abortion is murder and yes I believe it is wrong and yes I believe every life taken by men without moral justification grieves the creator of those lives. To force me to pay for murder, how does that jive with the Constitution? It does not!

Marijuana is a plant, like tobacco, peyote, coca. What we, as men do with it is a moral issue as well. I do not think alcohol is wrong even though it is made by men from agricultural products, but I do believe that the effects that alcohol creates in some people are wrong. I do not believe that any American should have to pay for the penalties of another's misuse or abuse of drugs or alcohol. However, the insurance and health care industries spread those costs out to me and take money out of my pocket to pay for other peoples lack of control, misuse and abuse. When the law protects me from other people's stupidity instead of forcing me to pay for it, then I think that there can be a common ground for a reasonable discussion.

Illegal immigration, yep, it is wrong. I do however think there is a need for immigration reform. I believe I am fortunate to have been born into the greatest (not perfect) country on the planet. What grieves me is the balls to the wall path to destroy America. There are people voluntarily leaving America (on both sides) because of their disdain for what it has become. The PC movement to let people hold onto their loyalty to another country while letting them into America is creating two classes of immigrants. Those who love America and vow allegiance to America as a country and want to prosper both themselves and America, and those who come only for the benefits but despise the foundation of our Country.

When it comes to 1st and 2nd amendment "rights" those have been infringed. However, America allowed and ushered in those laws which violate the constitution. Tell me how we can roll back all laws related to marriage (regardless of sexual orientation), guns, etc. and get back to the constitution and I am all ears...I just do not think it is possible in the current climate.

[ZERO THEORY]

To the OP, honestly, i think you are one of the types of people that is unraveling the Republican party. Namely a social liberal and a financial conservative. I would argue that you are not a "firm supporter" of the founding principles of the constitution however. When Federal Government ignored state rights and passed several laws which you likely support, the constitution was violated and continues to be violated more and more every day. I am not being critical of your stances, they are yours and your right to have. But some of them are counter to the founding principles of the Constitution. The constitution is not sacred and must be supported in whole or nothing, but, at least today, it is still "assumed" as the law of the land even though many aspects of it are being violated.

Gay marriage is a farce. When the congress passed the "defense of marriage act", or even before when they gave married couples preferential treatment, the constitution was violated. Gay marriage is a platform that, from the legal side, seeks to place same sex couples on the same footing as traditionally married couples. Newsflash...marriage is NOT in the constitution and it is NOT enumerated as a protected right. Furthermore, the jurisdiction for marriage is at the state level, NOT the Federal level under the constitution. So passing a law to right the perceived inequality created by unjust laws and regulations is still an illegal law. We just have no politicians willing to call a spade a spade and fight for state rights to return the issue of marriage to the state level. America has tried to legislate morality and export democracy by force. Even if I agree with the "goals" the delivery method has been wrong way too often. The reaction of late has been to legislate amorality. It is all surface level bandaids refusing to deal with the root cause. You can not force a man to be good...you can only bring to bear penalties for evil which harms another person or their property. A lot of this blame lies in legalism in the American church, which when it fails to effect positive change, is angered and attempts to force change through legislation. It is a history lesson that humans refuse to learn as a majority.


Well, let me go ahead and stop right at your first argument. Women didn't have the right to vote, given the framework of the Constitution at its inception. That was also a state affair. Would you say that we shouldn't have passed the 19th amendment? Should we undo the 15th as well? Whether or not you agree with gay marriage, arbitrary and subjective religious beliefs do not equate to fact. There is no quantitative or qualitative truth value; it's holds not data.

I would argue that saying anyone who doesn't fit your exact set of convictions is a false Republican is pretty shameful. If we all just parrot the exact same set of beliefs, we might as well be robots. I'd rather foster discussions and debate among differing viewpoints to figure out what is best for the nation, than shun potential allies in my fight to retain my rights.

[MarkCO]

In response to above...

Not picking a fight with the amendments...but marriage still is not a protected right under the constitution so arguing about changes made because of amendments has nothing to do with it. I do believe in marriage, however, you have missed the entire point of the argument...that is in agreement with what you wrote. Religious Freedom is a foundation of the Constitution...the warping by some to try and legislate morality now removes religious freedom. Amendments are the proper way to change law, not by legislation from the bench, which is where we now are.

Also never called anyone a "false Republican" those are your words and are not even close to what I wrote.

[RMAC757]

So, it seems my opinions and ideology vary depending on the subject matter. I've always kind of considered myself a very liberal conservative if that makes any sense.

I don't believe government should tell people how to live. I believe hard work and ambition should be rewarded. I don't believe in free handouts for those who lack in the hard work or ambition department. I'm a firm supporter of my country's constitution and the principles on which it was founded.

But....

I also believe in gay marriage, the legalization of marijuana on a federal level, and I'm pro-choice when it comes to abortion. I also am very open minded when it comes to illegal immigrants. I feel they serve a valid role in our society.

Oh, and for the record, I don't partake in marijuana or participate in homosexuality and I'm not an immigrant. And I always vote Republican because most of the candidates usually make more sense than their Democratic counterparts. I've always found third party candidates who's ideas and beliefs were in line with mine but have always realized a vote for them wasn't really a viable or realistic option.

Ray, I wonder the same thing everyday. Why don't we have more political choices. On the other hand screw that. I don't want to be categorized as anything other than a free thinker.

[davsel]

Well, let me go ahead and stop right at your first argument. Women didn't have the right to vote, given the framework of the Constitution at its inception. That was also a state affair. Would you say that we shouldn't have passed the 19th amendment? Should we undo the 15th as well? Whether or not you agree with gay marriage, arbitrary and subjective religious beliefs do not equate to fact. There is no quantitative or qualitative truth value; it's holds not data.

I would argue that saying anyone who doesn't fit your exact set of convictions is a false Republican is pretty shameful. If we all just parrot the exact same set of beliefs, we might as well be robots. I'd rather foster discussions and debate among differing viewpoints to figure out what is best for the nation, than shun potential allies in my fight to retain my rights.

You can trace back the liberalization of our country to the passing of the 19th Amendment. Repeal it. Or go back to the idea that only property owners/tax payers can vote - must have skin in the game.
Your second paragraph sounds like a justification for "Celebrate Diversity!" Nonsense. Take a look at Europe to see where we're headed on that front.

[ZERO THEORY]

You can trace back the liberalization of our country to the passing of the 19th Amendment. Repeal it. Or go back to the idea that only property owners/tax payers can vote - must have skin in the game.
Your second paragraph sounds like a justification for "Celebrate Diversity!" Nonsense. Take a look at Europe to see where we're headed on that front.

Saying that there's more than one set of beliefs for people who want to live freely is a justification for "Celebrate Diversity!" nonsense? Interesting. Because Whigs were constituted of strict Anglicans as well as Puritans. Meanwhile, they managed to consort with outspoken secularists like Thomas Jefferson.


In his Notes on Virginia (1781), Jefferson wrote: "Millions of innocent men, women and children since the introduction of Christianity have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned. Yet have we not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth . . ." The Deist wrote: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." (Works, 1829 ed., Vol. IV, p. 365).


It's almost like...there might be some differentiation between 319 million people. Weird. Anyway, what is the latest update on our Groupthink™ syllabus?

[asmo]

To the OP, honestly, i think you are one of the types of people that is unraveling the Republican party. Namely a social liberal and a financial conservative. I would argue that you are not a "firm supporter" of the founding principles of the constitution however. When Federal Government ignored state rights and passed several laws which you likely support, the constitution was violated and continues to be violated more and more every day. I am not being critical of your stances, they are yours and your right to have. But some of them are counter to the founding principles of the Constitution. The constitution is not sacred and must be supported in whole or nothing, but, at least today, it is still "assumed" as the law of the land even though many aspects of it are being violated.


No True Scotsman! One... love.



Gay marriage is a farce. When the congress passed the "defense of marriage act", or even before when they gave married couples preferential treatment, the constitution was violated. Gay marriage is a platform that, from the legal side, seeks to place same sex couples on the same footing as traditionally married couples. Newsflash...marriage is NOT in the constitution and it is NOT enumerated as a protected right. Furthermore, the jurisdiction for marriage is at the state level, NOT the Federal level under the constitution. So passing a law to right the perceived inequality created by unjust laws and regulations is still an illegal law. We just have no politicians willing to call a spade a spade and fight for state rights to return the issue of marriage to the state level. America has tried to legislate morality and export democracy by force. Even if I agree with the "goals" the delivery method has been wrong way too often. The reaction of late has been to legislate amorality. It is all surface level bandaids refusing to deal with the root cause. You can not force a man to be good...you can only bring to bear penalties for evil which harms another person or their property. A lot of this blame lies in legalism in the American church, which when it fails to effect positive change, is angered and attempts to force change through legislation. It is a history lesson that humans refuse to learn as a majority.

Argument from Consequences! Two... love.



Abortion is a moral issue. If you think life is valuable then you have to make a choice. Does life start when a human is conceived, has a brain wave, has a heartbeat. leaves the mothers body, or when it can fend for itself. There is no doubt that a baby inside the womb is living and is also dependant on the mothers body. But to you who think humans have no soul, then why can we not kill the guy who cuts us off in traffic? I can shoot the deer on the side of a hill and a doctor can kill a baby in the womb. Is any human who can not speak or fight for their rights okay to kill? If you believe humans have a soul, when does that soul "arrive" in a human. Yes, I believe abortion is murder and yes I believe it is wrong and yes I believe every life taken by men without moral justification grieves the creator of those lives. To force me to pay for murder, how does that jive with the Constitution? It does not!

Marijuana is a plant, like tobacco, peyote, coca. What we, as men do with it is a moral issue as well. I do not think alcohol is wrong even though it is made by men from agricultural products, but I do believe that the effects that alcohol creates in some people are wrong. I do not believe that any American should have to pay for the penalties of another's misuse or abuse of drugs or alcohol. However, the insurance and health care industries spread those costs out to me and take money out of my pocket to pay for other peoples lack of control, misuse and abuse. When the law protects me from other people's stupidity instead of forcing me to pay for it, then I think that there can be a common ground for a reasonable discussion.

Illegal immigration, yep, it is wrong. I do however think there is a need for immigration reform. I believe I am fortunate to have been born into the greatest (not perfect) country on the planet. What grieves me is the balls to the wall path to destroy America. There are people voluntarily leaving America (on both sides) because of their disdain for what it has become. The PC movement to let people hold onto their loyalty to another country while letting them into America is creating two classes of immigrants. Those who love America and vow allegiance to America as a country and want to prosper both themselves and America, and those who come only for the benefits but despise the foundation of our Country.


Non sequitur... love and game.

[jhood001]

You can trace back the liberalization of our country to the passing of the 19th Amendment. Repeal it.

Dude, seriously? We've crossed this topic before. You honestly want to remove the right of women to vote in this country?

Do you also want them to wear a burqa? Or is there some other clothing that you believe is suitable for 'them' that also hits your horny button?

Nun outfits? What does it for you?

If you want to make our women unequal, you might as well go for broke and spell out all of the other things you would like to see done to them.

Yeah, some of that which I wrote is probably unfair, but a full explanation of your beliefs would be nice... so that anyone living in the 21st century can comment, counter and properly destroy them.

[HBARleatherneck]

lets be honest....as lovers of freedom the last thing in the world we need is a Constitution convention. Do you remember that 50% + of the country voted for Barry twice? We would almost guaranteed lose the 2nd ammendment. Can you imagine the troubles we would have after that? I would love to see the 14th ammendment repealed but, I would settle for it being severely infringed like they have done to the second.

[Honey Badger282.8]

lets be honest....as lovers of freedom the last thing in the world we need is a Constitution convention. Do you remember that 50% + of the country voted for Barry twice? We would almost guaranteed lose the 2nd ammendment. Can you imagine the troubles we would have after that? I would love to see the 14th ammendment repealed but, I would settle for it being severely infringed like they have done to the second.

The requirements for both proposing (2/3 of states) and ratifying (3/4 of states) amendments via convention exceed Obamas popular vote. Despite the GOP controlling 31 state legislatures and splitting 8 there probably wouldn't be enough support for any hot button issues.

[HBARleatherneck]

there are alot of flakes though. I wouldnt want to chance it thats for sure. Can you imagine the money they would spend and lies they would tell to get uneducated people to swing the wrong way.

[TheGrey]

You can trace back the liberalization of our country to the passing of the 19th Amendment. Repeal it. Or go back to the idea that only property owners/tax payers can vote - must have skin in the game.


Say, that's a swell idea. In fact, we could just look to ISIS as an example of the fine, fine civilization they have- mostly because they keep those females on a very short leash. If they get out of line, well, since they're lesser types and really don't have the same rights as real people, it's simply easier to punish them, get rid of them, and/or replace them. Because men have always known how to run things in the most expedient, efficient way, never having made mistakes or been the cause of any difficulty. Not like those second-class citizens. Hell, ever since Eve started causing problems, them uppity wimmin have been just sticking their noses into business that they shouldn't be. They can't comprehend such complex stuff as politics; their ideas are all different and that's bad, right? Their little button heads just can't wrap around things like that. Imagine how much money would be saved if resources weren't wasted on them! They think because they have education, that their opinions actually matter! Can you believe it? Just because they make up about half the population, have made just as many sacrifices as the men in founding this country, and have been a part of life from the beginning...well, we all now they're just a weird combination of adults with the comprehensive capabilities of a child. They really don't deserve the freedoms. It hasn't even been 100 years that they've had the right. I'm sure they won't miss that teeny little amendment.

Yeah...just repeal it. Should be simple enough. [Coffee]

[DavieD55]

Excellent post!


To the OP, honestly, i think you are one of the types of people that is unraveling the Republican party. Namely a social liberal and a financial conservative. I would argue that you are not a "firm supporter" of the founding principles of the constitution however. When Federal Government ignored state rights and passed several laws which you likely support, the constitution was violated and continues to be violated more and more every day. I am not being critical of your stances, they are yours and your right to have. But some of them are counter to the founding principles of the Constitution. The constitution is not sacred and must be supported in whole or nothing, but, at least today, it is still "assumed" as the law of the land even though many aspects of it are being violated.

Gay marriage is a farce. When the congress passed the "defense of marriage act", or even before when they gave married couples preferential treatment, the constitution was violated. Gay marriage is a platform that, from the legal side, seeks to place same sex couples on the same footing as traditionally married couples. Newsflash...marriage is NOT in the constitution and it is NOT enumerated as a protected right. Furthermore, the jurisdiction for marriage is at the state level, NOT the Federal level under the constitution. So passing a law to right the perceived inequality created by unjust laws and regulations is still an illegal law. We just have no politicians willing to call a spade a spade and fight for state rights to return the issue of marriage to the state level. America has tried to legislate morality and export democracy by force. Even if I agree with the "goals" the delivery method has been wrong way too often. The reaction of late has been to legislate amorality. It is all surface level bandaids refusing to deal with the root cause. You can not force a man to be good...you can only bring to bear penalties for evil which harms another person or their property. A lot of this blame lies in legalism in the American church, which when it fails to effect positive change, is angered and attempts to force change through legislation. It is a history lesson that humans refuse to learn as a majority.

Abortion is a moral issue. If you think life is valuable then you have to make a choice. Does life start when a human is conceived, has a brain wave, has a heartbeat. leaves the mothers body, or when it can fend for itself. There is no doubt that a baby inside the womb is living and is also dependant on the mothers body. But to you who think humans have no soul, then why can we not kill the guy who cuts us off in traffic? I can shoot the deer on the side of a hill and a doctor can kill a baby in the womb. Is any human who can not speak or fight for their rights okay to kill? If you believe humans have a soul, when does that soul "arrive" in a human. Yes, I believe abortion is murder and yes I believe it is wrong and yes I believe every life taken by men without moral justification grieves the creator of those lives. To force me to pay for murder, how does that jive with the Constitution? It does not!

Marijuana is a plant, like tobacco, peyote, coca. What we, as men do with it is a moral issue as well. I do not think alcohol is wrong even though it is made by men from agricultural products, but I do believe that the effects that alcohol creates in some people are wrong. I do not believe that any American should have to pay for the penalties of another's misuse or abuse of drugs or alcohol. However, the insurance and health care industries spread those costs out to me and take money out of my pocket to pay for other peoples lack of control, misuse and abuse. When the law protects me from other people's stupidity instead of forcing me to pay for it, then I think that there can be a common ground for a reasonable discussion.

Illegal immigration, yep, it is wrong. I do however think there is a need for immigration reform. I believe I am fortunate to have been born into the greatest (not perfect) country on the planet. What grieves me is the balls to the wall path to destroy America. There are people voluntarily leaving America (on both sides) because of their disdain for what it has become. The PC movement to let people hold onto their loyalty to another country while letting them into America is creating two classes of immigrants. Those who love America and vow allegiance to America as a country and want to prosper both themselves and America, and those who come only for the benefits but despise the foundation of our Country.

When it comes to 1st and 2nd amendment "rights" those have been infringed. However, America allowed and ushered in those laws which violate the constitution. Tell me how we can roll back all laws related to marriage (regardless of sexual orientation), guns, etc. and get back to the constitution and I am all ears...I just do not think it is possible in the current climate.

[davsel]

Excellent Post! [Sarcasm2]


Say, that's a swell idea. In fact, we could just look to ISIS as an example of the fine, fine civilization they have- mostly because they keep those females on a very short leash. If they get out of line, well, since they're lesser types and really don't have the same rights as real people, it's simply easier to punish them, get rid of them, and/or replace them. Because men have always known how to run things in the most expedient, efficient way, never having made mistakes or been the cause of any difficulty. Not like those second-class citizens. Hell, ever since Eve started causing problems, them uppity wimmin have been just sticking their noses into business that they shouldn't be. They can't comprehend such complex stuff as politics; their ideas are all different and that's bad, right? Their little button heads just can't wrap around things like that. Imagine how much money would be saved if resources weren't wasted on them! They think because they have education, that their opinions actually matter! Can you believe it? Just because they make up about half the population, have made just as many sacrifices as the men in founding this country, and have been a part of life from the beginning...well, we all now they're just a weird combination of adults with the comprehensive capabilities of a child. They really don't deserve the freedoms. It hasn't even been 100 years that they've had the right. I'm sure they won't miss that teeny little amendment.

Yeah...just repeal it. Should be simple enough. [Coffee]

Men and women are different. Always have been, and always will be.
Men and women are better at different things.
That is the way it was designed and intended - across the animal kingdom if you want to take religion completely out of it.
Feminism has turned these differences on their head and our society as a whole has suffered because of it.
Let women be women with all that they excel at, and let men do what men do best.
It has now gone so far out of whack that you can pick and choose what gender you want to be? Complete nonsense.
Our civilization will pay the price for such stupidity.

Just to be clear, musloids don't treat women properly in any way. Islam is an abomination to civilization.

[Irving]

Men and women are different. Always have been, and always will be.
Let women be women with all that they excel at, and let men do what men do best.
It has now gone so far out of whack that you can pick and choose what gender you want to be? Complete nonsense.
Our civilization will pay the price for such stupidity.

Just to be clear, musloids don't treat women properly in any way. Islam is an abomination to civilization.

No one should even have to address this post, but after that trainwreck of foolishness and embarrassment which is the Trump video thread, I figured I'd bettter at least say something. It is laughable to say "let women be women with all that they excel at," while at the same time implying that you get to decide what women are best at by removing their right to vote.

There is no creative way for you to express that you think women are too dumb to vote, without anyone with a pulse being able to see right through it. Save yourself the trouble and just be honest.

[ZERO THEORY]

Things I've learned in this thread:

-Groupthink is the only true form of Conservatism/Republicanism. If you have any sort of differentiation from the establishment's women=stupid, abortion=murder, "Mexicans"=criminals, gays=sub-human ideology, you're what's wrong with America.

-No one knows the difference between Wahhabi and Salafist sects of Islam and the hundreds of millions of Asian, European, American, and Pacific Muslims who have absolutely no interest in beheadings, jihad, or women's oppression

-The 19th amendment should be repealed. Because only male land owners should have a say in what goes on. You know, like in Afghanistan. Or 17th century England.

-The 14th amendment should be repealed. That uppity negro Obama has broken his oath, so all Black Americans should suffer as punishment. That'll teach 'em!

What else am I missing?

[HBARleatherneck]

the 14th ammendment no longer has any bearing on black folks. Today it means anchor births and birth tourism. Yes, I have problem with that. And if only land owners voted I dont see how it could hurt. Male or female, if you own land. (yes, we can say your .002 acre lot is land). Why should people who have no skin in the game get to vote? Im listening if you have a reason why they should be allowed to vote.That is my opinion only. (of course I have no problem with conscripted service either)

While I agree that women and men are very different, and I hate to see the modern world try and make males and females out to be the same, I dont see why women shouldnt vote. I believe we are equal....but different.

I also dont think all "Mexicans" are criminals. I believe many, many places in the world suck. And I have been to many shitholes while in the Marine Corps.
I think people want to come here for a better life. Well, I am 100% against people coming here without documentation. We need to know who and how many are coming. We need to know or be reasonably sure you are not a criminal (yet), we need to know you are not spreading contagious diseases. We need to make sure the economy and infrastructure can handle the numbers.

I think the republican party is every bit as bad as the democrat party.
I hate all politicians regardless or party affiliation, race, creed, religion or color. They are all evil.

See you dont really know us all.

[HBARleatherneck]

I can accept that version of taxpayers Foxtrot. If you arent paying in, you dont vote. Better than where we are now.

[MarkCO]

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”
― Benjamin Franklin (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/289513.Benjamin_Franklin)

[davsel]

Things I've learned in this thread:

-Groupthink is the only true form of Conservatism/Republicanism. If you have any sort of differentiation from the establishment's women=stupid, abortion=murder, "Mexicans"=criminals, gays=sub-human ideology, you're what's wrong with America.

-No one knows the difference between Wahhabi and Salafist sects of Islam and the hundreds of millions of Asian, European, American, and Pacific Muslims who have absolutely no interest in beheadings, jihad, or women's oppression

-The 19th amendment should be repealed. Because only male land owners should have a say in what goes on. You know, like in Afghanistan. Or 17th century England.

-The 14th amendment should be repealed. That uppity negro Obama has broken his oath, so all Black Americans should suffer as punishment. That'll teach 'em!

What else am I missing?

What else are you missing?
Well for starters,
Women = equals with different strengths and weaknesses than men (ETA: ...which are complimentary to men's strength's and weaknesses - as designed by God)
Abortion = murder (Got that one right)
Illegal aliens (I'm assuming that is what "Mexicans" means) = criminals (something to do with the "Illegal" part) (got that right if my assumption is correct)
Gays = morally challenged and often mentally ill (homosexuality is in no way an "ideology")

I absolutely love it when someone posts about being pro-Islam and at the same time, pro-women's rights and pro-gay rights. Hilarious display of ignorance.

What else are you missing?
The ability to remove emotional reaction from facts when making decisions. Something women often struggle with.
That, and access to Google Search apparently.

[cstone]

Please do not let the discussion become a field for personal attacks.

Opinions are normally welcome, however this thread could easily be closed.

[ray1970]

This thread has really snowballed. Lol.

While it wasn't my intention to stir the pot or rile people up, it seems personal beliefs and values that differ from what one person thinks can breed a little controversy.

It is cool to see where some of you stand and what some of you believe.

Good to see that some of you share some of my views and also nice to see there are some of you I should avoid as we have very little in common.

Normally I wouldn't call any of you out for anything you posted here but I'm going to go on record here.

MarkCo, if you think I'm part of what's wrong with this country then you are either living under a rock or perhaps you misinterpreted some of what I posted. No hard feelings on my end either way. I've known for a long time based on your posts here that you and I have very little in common.

[HoneyBadger]

Foxtrot, your post highlights what I believe to be the most significant problem with modern American politics: Non-producers are drowning the producers with legislation that benefits the non-producers and penalizes the producers. I could probably write a thesis about this.

[MarkCO]

ray1970, no hard feelings at all. However, since you are "on record" please tell me where I was critical of you or your stance. Where did I ever state that I think you are part of what's wrong with this country? Go ahead and provide the quotes.

[Great-Kazoo]

Foxtrot, your post highlights what I believe to be the most significant problem with modern American politics: Non-producers are drowning the producers with legislation that benefits the non-producers and penalizes the producers. I could probably write a thesis about this.

They also have a real hard time getting I.D to do things like VOTE. Or is that they're prevented from getting an I.D by the CORPORATE 1% [LOL]

[bellavite1]

I am in the same shoes as OP:
I am one to live and let live and don't care who you have a relationship with, provided that you don't turn that relationship into a circus.
I am most definitely not a Christian.

HOWEVER,
I do believe in meritocracy, in self reliance, in taking responsibility for my own safety.
I do believe in an eye for an eye, rather than finding a justification in the society for scumbags.
I don't like the government sticking its nose in everything I do, so long that I don't infringe on other's freedoms.

You have to figure out what impacts your life the most.

I may not be a"perfect" Republican, but that is where my vote goes.

[TheGrey]

Excellent Post! [Sarcasm2]



Men and women are different. Always have been, and always will be.
Men and women are better at different things.
That is the way it was designed and intended - across the animal kingdom if you want to take religion completely out of it.
Feminism has turned these differences on their head and our society as a whole has suffered because of it.
Let women be women with all that they excel at, and let men do what men do best.
It has now gone so far out of whack that you can pick and choose what gender you want to be? Complete nonsense.
Our civilization will pay the price for such stupidity.

Just to be clear, musloids don't treat women properly in any way. Islam is an abomination to civilization.

Wait....you were SERIOUS?!

Here I thought we were riffing off of each other.

Well, that answers a lot of unasked questions. I'd like to say you're the first male to offer up such a denigration couched in a semi-platitude of "we're all different and just look to the animal kingdom" as a way to sugar coat it. You're not.

[ray1970]

Wait....you were SERIOUS?!

Here I thought we were riffing off of each other.

Well, that answers a lot of unasked questions. I'd like to say you're the first male to offer up such a denigration couched in a semi-platitude of "we're all different and just look to the animal kingdom" as a way to sugar coat it. You're not.
Lol. It isn't like he said women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
[Coffee]

[Squeeze]

I'm good with everything in your original post minus the illegal immigrant issue. I see it more as a cancer than a "valid role" in our society. Only because our current government feels the need to give illegal immigrants all the wonderful benefits they should not be entitled to all the while we have a lot of our veterans who are homeless, can't afford healthcare or find gainful employment. Yet they seem to bend over backwards for the illegals.

[Irving]

I done think veterans not being able to be gainfully employed had anything to do with government hand outs to illegals. Entirely different issue.

[TheGrey]

Lol. It isn't like he said women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
[Coffee]

I've met a few guys of that mindset, too. One of them was blissfully married to a lady that agreed with him. Good couple.
=================================================

There a LOT that's broken in the government. I often wonder where the new president will begin in fixing the mess? Assuming that we don't get another Democrat in the White House, I mean.

[HoneyBadger]

I've met a few guys of that mindset, too. One of them was blissfully married to a lady that agreed with him. Good couple.
=================================================

There a LOT that's broken in the government. I often wonder where the new president will begin in fixing the mess? Assuming that we don't get another Democrat in the White House, I mean.
You think any Democrat or Republican candidate for President can actually fix any of it? [ROFL1]

[davsel]

Lol. It isn't like he said women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
[Coffee]

Not even close.
"Different," in no way means "inferior" or "subservient."
Here's a clip from the great movie, A Man Called Peter, that provides a pretty good explanation of what I believe. The movie is currently on NetFlix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXls315lgmY

[jhood001]

Not even close.
"Different," in no way means "inferior" or "subservient."
Here's a clip from the great movie, A Man Called Peter, that provides a pretty good explanation of what I believe. The movie is currently on NetFlix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXls315lgmY

Not allowing a woman to vote for whomever she wants to represent her isn't a perfect example of subservience?

And I get where you're coming from. You would rather the woman in your life default to your judgement for important matters such as representation. You're the 'pillar' and 'rock' of your family after all. It is just incredibly sad that the person you would desire to repress could, quite possibly, have a greater understanding of what is best for you and your family than you do.... But that is impossible, isn't it? Because she is 'female'.

Step foot on my property when you are in need and I will do everything in my power to help you. Step foot on my property while trying to tell my wife that she shouldn't have a voice, and things won't go so well.

I'm glad, for your sake, that you're propagating your beliefs on forums and not in the yards of your neighbors.

Best of luck to you and your beliefs, misogynist.