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HoneyBadger
11-19-2015, 09:53
Short and to the point: Carrying with an empty chamber is probably indicative of insufficient training and confidence.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/9/sheriffs-tips-empty-chambers/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1115



Lately I have been hearing that a number of people are carrying their defensive semi-automatics without a round in the chamber. I suppose that this is most often done with a thought to increasing the safety of the handgun and avoiding a negligent discharge. However, it considerably defeats the purpose of the defensive handgun.


A criminal attack often comes from very close range and with very little, if any, warning. A person simply may not have time to chamber a round in his or her pistol before the attacker is upon them. In addition, chambering a cartridge requires the use of both hands at a time when the support hand may be busy trying to fend off the attack or pushing a loved one out of the line of fire. From holster to on-target, one should be able to operate a defensive handgun with only one hand, should that become necessary.

Some folks are concerned about a single-action semi-automatic having the hammer cocked back. I was too, back in the Dark Ages. But I took the time to get some professional training and learn the pistol. I soon found that they don't go off by themselves.

Others are concerned about the fact that striker-fired pistols—like the Glock—have no external safeties. And they have heard stories about people who have accidentally shot themselves. Well, let me let you in on a little secret ... those are not accidents. They are nearly always a case of negligence—that is, someone fooling with the pistol and causing the trigger to be depressed when they didn't intend for it to be.

In the case with any of the autoloading handguns, a good defensive instructor can teach a person to operate it safely and to carry it with a round in the chamber. Regardless of those people who think they are a born shooter—Wyatt Earp Jr.—nothing will benefit the defensive shooter like professional training. And proper and safe manipulation of the defensive handgun is an important part of that training.

Regardless, there are those who just don't feel comfortable carrying any sort of semi-auto pistol with a round in the chamber. The solution is a simple one and it has been around for well over 100 years. Of course, I am talking about the double-action revolver. When the DA revolver is fully loaded, no springs are depressed and the hammer is not cocked back, yet it is ready to go at a moment's notice. A person who carries a pistol with an empty chamber is telling the world that they don't know what they are doing. I hope that those folks will get serious about their personal defense, get some professional training, and carry whatever defensive handgun they have confidence in. Whatever gun they choose, it should be ready to go when the attack comes.



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I know this is a highly contentious topic but if you carry with an empty chamber currently, I hope you will reconsider.

I carried with an empty chamber in a glock for a long time and it wasn't until very recently that I realized how silly that was. I watched a bunch of videos on liveleak and youtube of armed robberies and shootouts and applied the lessons learned to my daily habits. I also determined that I have a strong tendency to use my left hand for pulling/pushing family members out of the way while using my right hand to draw. In addition, if I am carrying anything, it is with my left hand so that my right hand is free. I did this intentionally so that my right hand is always free to draw my weapon, and although I practiced drawing and racking the slide with one hand many times, the reality is that the one-handed slide rack process is the biggest variable in my draw that is most likely to inhibit me from defending myself.

I also noticed that carrying with an empty chamber caused me to break laws of firearms safety quite frequently, because I KNEW that the firearm wasn't loaded. [Roll1]

Carrying with an empty chamber prepared me well for a single set of scenarios where I have time and opportunity to react and egress... but that was exactly the biggest failure in my logic. Carrying a gun is for the times when I won't have the time to react or opportunity to egress.

If you carry "chamber empty", I hope you will reconsider.

68Charger
11-19-2015, 11:40
I've been carrying with a round in the chamber for 5 years now, never had an incident.

Started with a Kel-Tec P11... the 9 pound, long pull trigger instilled a LOT of confidence that it wouldn't go off... I could tie a string to that trigger and drop it safely (no, I never tested it, but 20oz pistol (fully loaded) with a 9# trigger is NOT going off on it's own.

Now for the past 3 years I have carried a S&W M&P40c with a real nice trigger (I see no need to buy parts to improve it)... striker fired, no external safety- also zero incidents.

I fully agree with the article, and will go so far to say you may actually be worse off carrying with an empty chamber than not at all- you may be more likely for it to be taken from and used on you.

Zundfolge
11-19-2015, 12:00
In general I don't have a problem with how other people carry ... its a lot like underwear preference in that what works well for one won't work well for another.

But if you can't bring yourself to carry with a round in the chamber I think you're better off not carrying ... I'm sorry but if you've chosen a gun that isn't safe to carry loaded (like a Colt SAA) or if you are afraid to carry a modern handgun with one in the chamber then you're really just not prepared to use a gun in self defense (Mossad members notwithstanding).

ray1970
11-19-2015, 14:03
The only handgun that freaks me out a little bit is a 70 series 1911. I'm in a minority that actually likes the 80 series. I find firing pin blocks comforting.

O2HeN2
11-19-2015, 16:53
The only handgun that freaks me out a little bit is a 70 series 1911. I'm in a minority that actually likes the 80 series. I find firing pin blocks comforting.
My Series 80 suffered a horrible accident - lost the plunger and spring and the transfer parts were mangled to the point that they resembled washers.

O2

Irving
11-19-2015, 17:18
I have a hard enough time drawing with my shirt tucked in and a tightly worn belt. As is I won't be getting the drop on anyone, with an empty chamber I might as well be carrying in my sock and have to untie my shoe first. But to each their own.

brutal
11-19-2015, 18:14
The only handgun that freaks me out a little bit is a 70 series 1911. I'm in a minority that actually likes the 80 series. I find firing pin blocks comforting.

That didn't help the cop that had an MRI suck his 1911 in and go bang. I'm pretty sure it was a series 80.

brutal
11-19-2015, 18:25
My Series 80 suffered a horrible accident - lost the plunger and spring and the transfer parts were mangled to the point that they resembled washers.

O2

I had a similar problem with the ILS mechanism on my Springer 1911 (series 70), it no longer works. [Dunno]

There's a few other guns here that also seem to have broken magazine safeties. [oops]Sometimes the lawyers are just too over reaching.

blacklabel
11-19-2015, 18:33
I started out carrying a series 80 1911 without much hesitation. The grip safety and thumb safety were comforting but I was constantly checking the ambi thumb safety. I moved to an XD9SC. It was nice but missed a full size gun. I now carry an M&P9 with no thumb safety and have never worried about.

Zundfolge
11-19-2015, 19:14
Of course if you're all super high speed low drag operator and shit you can just rack the gun one handed with inertia [ROFL1]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eooH-QnA_8

Alpha2
11-19-2015, 19:18
Gun with empty chamber = rock

Except for the Israelis. But they practice...A LOT!!!

Zundfolge
11-19-2015, 20:22
Except for the Israelis. But they practice...A LOT!!!

So just imagine how much more effective they'd be if they carried with a loaded chamber.

SideShow Bob
11-20-2015, 19:55
Of course if you're all super high speed low drag operator and shit you can just rack the gun one handed with inertia [ROFL1]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eooH-QnA_8

That is one light ass recoil spring.

Bailey Guns
11-23-2015, 04:51
Keep your defensive firearm in the condition you'd want it to be in should you suddenly find yourself in a gunfight or other immediately life-threatening situation. If that condition is unloaded, good luck.

Great-Kazoo
11-23-2015, 08:48
Of course if you're all super high speed low drag operator and shit you can just rack the gun one handed with inertia [ROFL1]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eooH-QnA_8

When the number goes from 1 - 2/3 suddenly in your face. Range drills go down the shitter, especially this stuff. It's i'm going to get fucked up if not killed, and need to do something NOW!. There's nothing wrong with and something i encourage people to try and or practice. However when it's Go time, the Plan goes first.

ray1970
11-25-2015, 16:37
http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/10/15/watch-as-israeli-carry-nearly-gets-an-israeli-police-officer-stabbed-to-death/

Alpha2
11-25-2015, 17:59
They only do it 'cause they have to. It's a "regulatory" thing. Same thing with the rifles. Can't have a mag in the rifle, must pull the "holder" out and insert the mag. It's like the Dems here made their rules.

HoneyBadger
11-25-2015, 18:26
http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/10/15/watch-as-israeli-carry-nearly-gets-an-israeli-police-officer-stabbed-to-death/
Nice analysis.

That douche took a lot of bullets. Gotta make sure he's down, right? [Muaha]

KS63
11-25-2015, 18:49
Knives scare the crap outta me. Condition 1 for me since day one. Series 70 1911 never a problem and never a worry.

ray1970
11-25-2015, 18:51
Knives scare the crap outta me. Condition 1 for me since day one. Series 70 1911 never a problem and never a worry.

Don't be a puss. Carry it condition "0".

KS63
11-25-2015, 21:37
Don't be a puss. Carry it condition "0".
Would you accept 0.5? LOL I have the utmost faith in my equipment, hence my statement. I can see how some are a bit hesitant in condition 1. It's how I learned I guess.

Dalendenver
11-29-2015, 22:35
In the same vein, I think the TV cops that have their finger on the side of the trigger guard when facing an armed opponent are idiots. They could be dead before they can get their finger on the trigger. If I have to pull my gun in a self defense scenario, it is because I feel I need to shoot and would not put my finger where it can't be used. And I certainly don't have time to rack the slide.

Great-Kazoo
11-30-2015, 01:39
In the same vein, I think the TV cops that have their finger on the side of the trigger guard when facing an armed opponent are idiots. They could be dead before they can get their finger on the trigger. If I have to pull my gun in a self defense scenario, it is because I feel I need to shoot and would not put my finger where it can't be used. And I certainly don't have time to rack the slide.

All you have to worry about is a Grand Jury and the Civil Suite that follows.
LE's have to deal with IA, the media, a Grand Jury AND the politicians. Among them their CLEO. In today's CYA world of their higher ups and local city council. It's even more prudent to make sure, before you make the shot.

TheSparkens
12-01-2015, 00:18
That's a great comment Kazoo. I have read many articles plus I have a very close family member that is a ADA that lectures me on how I would most likely go bankrupt if I ever used my firearm in self defense outside of the house.