View Full Version : Consider whether to reveal CCW to LE during traffic stop
Singlestack
11-21-2015, 15:40
A lot of CCW instructors and articles advocate for letting LE know you have a CCW during routine traffic stops - sometimes by presenting a CCW along with licence and registration. Here is a good reason NOT to do this, and it is from Texas and not some leftwing state like Massachusetts or New York.
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What started off as a routine traffic stop ended up with the driver in handcuffs in the back of a patrol car.
Rosenberg Police in Texas spotted a man making a right turn without signaling. They pulled him over, and everything was going fine until the driver Alonza Gonzalez notified the cop that he had a concealed carry permit. He let him know up front so that the cop wouldn’t be surprised if he saw that the driver had a firearm on him. He thought he was being responsible in letting the officer know.
At first, the cop was calm, and he asked if Gonzalez if he had the gun on him. The driver responded that he did, and that it was on his right hip.
The officer then called for backup who arrived with his gun drawn. The driver was ordered out of his vehicle and his hands to be placed behind his head. He was arrested according to the cop for “traffic violations” and for having a crack in his windshield that obstructed his view. I didn’t know you could get arrested for not signaling a right turn or for having a crack in your windshield.
Gonzalez is pretty sure his arrest had something to do with his being a permitted concealed carrier. If he hadn’t been armed, and if he had no concealed carry permit, he would have simply received a citation for his traffic violations and moved on. His violations did not warrant getting arrested.
I understand the police’s fear of armed citizens in light of the Black Lives Matter movement. They’re suspicious of any civilian carrying a firearm. They think that if you’re armed, then that means you’re dangerous and out to get the cops.
But in this case, Gonzalez showed no signs of aggression. He was perfectly compliant and was even up front about his concealed carry permit and handgun. This was not a case for the cop to react in the way that he did and arrest the guy for “traffic violations.” Predictably, following an internal “investigation,” it was found that the cop did nothing wrong.
Read more at http://lastresistance.com/14840/police-arrest-man-for-legally-carrying-handgun/#puAaPGgA7s7IcdQW.99
blacklabel
11-21-2015, 15:57
I've seen the arguments for and against notifying when stopped by police but this is the first time that I've seen it connected to BLM.
gnihcraes
11-22-2015, 08:31
I won't anymore unless they ask. The last few times during traffic accidents, I've provide my ID along with Permit and the officers have all said "why did you give me this?!" And became more nervous.
Nothing was different, it just made the officers distracted because they knew.
...
I've seen the arguments for and against notifying when stopped by police but this is the first time that I've seen it connected to BLM.
I don't see what the Bureau of Land Management has to do with any of this. [Sarcasm2]
I'm all about keeping my firearm a secret unless absolutely necessary to reveal. That includes people in positions of authority. If I get popped for speeding there is no reason me carrying or not carrying a handgun should come into play.
RCCrawler
11-22-2015, 08:50
A few years back I got stopped for speeding, was NOT carrying at the time.
Officer gets my info, goes back and writes ticket, comes back to the car and gives me a ticket and my ID back. As I go to put my ID back he sees my concealed carry permit.
He immediately drew his weapon into a low ready position and asked what that was. I reponded it was my concealed carry permit, but I wasn't carrying. His entire attitude changed and he stood there yelling at me for 5 minutes + about how I put his life in danger by not letting him know upfront that I had a concealed weapons permit. I explained several times that besides my small pocket knife there were no weapons in the vehicle, he said that didn't matter and I put him in harms way and he didn't need that shit.
blacklabel
11-22-2015, 09:01
Sounds like he needs to fine a new line of work then.
The only time I've notified is when being asked to step out of my vehicle. Weld County SO handled that extremely well.
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68Charger
11-22-2015, 09:09
When traveling, be aware that some states require revealing it to LE.
Colorado is not one of those states.
buffalobo
11-22-2015, 09:18
Sounds like he needs to fine a new line of work then.
The only time I've notified is when being asked to step out of my vehicle. Weld County SO handled that extremely well.
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Same experience for me, trooper informed me of license plate light out. I asked to get out and look. He said sure and stepped back to give me room to exit. I informed him I have permit and was carrying, did he want me to disarm? He looked at me like I was an idiot and asked what for. I said I didn't want to make him nervous, he laughed and said let's go look at light.
He ended up holding flashlight for me while I changed the burned out bulb.
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Wow. You put his life in danger by not advising that you had a certificate in your wallet. I can see how dangerous that would be. Sheesh. If I was on my way to teach a class at Pawnee Sportsmen's Center with a car FULL of misc. guns and ammo, his life STILL wouldn't be in danger. Except maybe from himself, apparently.
Great-Kazoo
11-22-2015, 10:03
I don't say shit to anyone. No one ask. No one Volunteers. My wallet is set up so a LE can see both DL and Permit at the same time. Oh you have a permit, what do you have in the vehicle. That depends, what are you interested in buying? Conversation ends, warning or ticket issued, have a good day and please slow down.
<MADDOG>
11-22-2015, 10:46
When traveling, be aware that some states require revealing it to LE.
Colorado is not one of those states.
True; I relocated to one...
newracer
11-22-2015, 10:50
Personally I would only tell them if I was asked to get out of the vehicle.
I used to, now I don't anymore.
Well, this is confounding. My CCW instructors all strongly suggested that if pulled over by an officer, you let them know that you also have a CC permit at the same time that you pass them your license and registration info. I've also asked LEOs about it, and I've gotten a grab bag of responses. I know that some counties make the list of CCW holders available (Arapahoe, off the top of my head) and some officers may get their nose bent out of shape if you don't let them know.
It sounds like the guy in Texas had the misfortune of getting a traffic cop that was entirely green. I can't imagine those charges will stick, unless there were some things that didn't make the news story.
The guy in Texas was probably harassed because he's Hispanic and had a gun. It's Texas, after all.
husky390
11-22-2015, 13:33
The one time I forgot to mention I had a handgun with me and the officer saw it on the seat made for a very tense and uncomfortable moment. I let them know up front, offer to step out of the vehicle and haven't received a ticket yet.
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The guy in Texas was probably harassed because he's Hispanic and had a gun. It's Texas, after all.
This.
sellersm
11-22-2015, 14:43
Don't they know anyway when they run your driver's license?
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Great-Kazoo
11-22-2015, 15:02
Well, this is confounding. My CCW instructors all strongly suggested that if pulled over by an officer, you let them know that you also have a CC permit at the same time that you pass them your license and registration info. I've also asked LEOs about it, and I've gotten a grab bag of responses. I know that some counties make the list of CCW holders available (Arapahoe, off the top of my head) and some officers may get their nose bent out of shape if you don't let them know.
It sounds like the guy in Texas had the misfortune of getting a traffic cop that was entirely green. I can't imagine those charges will stick, unless there were some things that didn't make the news story.
see response below. No longer an issue.
Don't they know anyway when they run your driver's license?
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NO longer an issue. That was put to rest a few years ago.
Now newspapers getting their hands on said info and posting it in a 2 part expose how there's a time bomb among us. That's a different story.
If the opportunity were to arise, I would offer the permit along with license as a courtesy. I don't get the LE's that go ape shiat. One would think that showing/having a permit would at least let the cop know you weren't a low life cop killer.
Then again, ignorance is bliss.
The guy in Texas was probably harassed because he's Hispanic and had a gun. It's Texas, after all.
never happened to me on a normal traffic stop ....
I had cops pull guns on me once, but I deserved that one
Be polite. Comply with lawful instructions. Answer only the questions you are asked AND only the questions you are required to answer, i.e. confirm the information on your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance.
In Colorado you are not required to notify LE that you are armed.
In Colorado you are not required to have a CCW to have a loaded handgun in the vehicle.
Any LEO that doesn't assume that there are weapons present everywhere and all of the time is a fool, IMO. A deadly weapon in the hands of someone without criminal intent and who is not negligent is not a threat.
Be safe.
Don't they know anyway when they run your driver's license?
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I do believe this is correct.
rock_castle
11-22-2015, 17:26
I won't disclose it unless they ask me to exit my vehicle. I don't inform the cashier at Walmart or the bank teller, and I see no reason to inform LE. I haven't been pulled over in probably ten years because I obey traffic laws.
newracer
11-22-2015, 17:42
I do believe this is correct.
Not anymore.
wctriumph
11-22-2015, 19:28
I have been pulled over three time since acquiring my CO CCW and each time I do the following (which I have been doing for over 40 years every time I have been pulled over):
I get my DL and CCW out, my registration and proof of insurance ready as well. I leave the glove box open and roll the windows down weather permitting, shut off the engine and kill the radio with interior lights on and both hands on the wheel. If I have a passenger, usually my wife and/or daughter, once my brother, I make them put both hands on the dash so that when the officer walks up he can see that we are NOT A THREAT to the officer. Whether it was LA County Sheriff, LAPD, CHP, Hunting Beach or Costa Mesa Police, Larimer County Sheriff, Weld County Sheriff, CSP, Fort Collins Police, Wyoming State Patrol, I have only received a thank you for my concern for officer safety and never had an officer make an issue for me having a CCW.
In CA I never could get a CCW (I moved to CO in 1999) but I have been carrying since 1982 with or without a permit. In CA they ALWAYS ask if you have drugs or firearms in the car and I always said no. When asked if they could search my vehicle I ALWAYS say NO. Never an issue.
But then I am a really nice guy.
Be safe.
spqrzilla
11-22-2015, 21:18
That Texas cop is no longer with that department.
Bailey Guns
11-23-2015, 04:39
If the opportunity were to arise, I would offer the permit along with license as a courtesy. I don't get the LE's that go ape shiat. One would think that showing/having a permit would at least let the cop know you weren't a low life cop killer.
Not true. All it let's them know is you're handing them a DL and permit. 3 times in my career I had this happen (not with a permit...just DL). In all 3 cases the person who handed me the DL was not the person on the license but looked close enough I couldn't tell just by the picture. One of those cases involved a guy who gave me his brother's DL, had all the info memorized, etc. Turns out the brother had the warrant. It was pretty funny watching the scumbag brother without the warrant trying to convince me he'd lied about his identity, taken his brother's license, etc. Still went to jail and fingerprints sorted it out...then he wound up with a few additional charges.
Siblings or other relatives frequently use IDs from their family members when they have warrants or other issues they don't want the police to know about.
After the first incident I never trusted my lying eyes again and in any situation other than a simple traffic stop always asked follow up questions in an attempt to verify who I was really talking to. Any street-smart cop quickly learns to do this.
I never cared one way or the other if someone told me they had a permit. More often than not it was presented in a way that implied they were looking for some type of consideration just for having a permit. Personally, I never cared for that.
Be polite. Comply with lawful instructions. Answer only the questions you are asked AND only the questions you are required to answer, i.e. confirm the information on your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance.
In Colorado you are not required to notify LE that you are armed.
In Colorado you are not required to have a CCW to have a loaded handgun in the vehicle.
Any LEO that doesn't assume that there are weapons present everywhere and all of the time is a fool, IMO. A deadly weapon in the hands of someone without criminal intent and who is not negligent is not a threat.
Be safe.
This. However, the prior telling that you're armed lets me know that you want to inform the officer that his gun is not the only one involved in the situation, and the fact that you're telling me is evidence that you don't intend to use it against me (usually). I was taught that no matter what, because we're there, there is always a gun in the situation (ours)- I always just assume there is another, I just don't yet know about it.
The story the OP posted is one bad instance. I'll be willing to bet that every one of those, there are quite possibly 250+ that don't end up that way. I tell my students in my CCW classes that you can do what you want, I would advise, as an instructor and LEO, that you let the officer know at the earliest convenience that you are armed and ask how to proceed. Now, I've seen instances (or heard about) where the officer asks the person out of the car or by some happenstance, discovers that the driver is armed, then gets bent out of shape that the person didn't advise them that they had a gun. That's how pistols get screwed into people's ears. I don't view it as oppression or anything nefarious like that, I view letting the officer know about your gun as a common courtesy. Odds are, if you show me a CCW permit and tell me you're carrying, I don't need to disarm you for the duration of the stop unless further actions dictate I should. My brother has been disarmed by CSP, and said he had no issues, the Trooper was extremely professional.
I was pulled over and I assumed he knew I had my CCW due to the car registered in my name. I informed him I was carrying and where it was due to the fact it was close to my wallet. I didn't want to make any moves that he may interpret in a bad way. He was very polite, just said "don't show it to me" and took my other documents. He let me go and all was well. I also live in a generally pro-2a county so I tend not to worry and would rather be up front with the officer. They have a hard enough job as-is.
Slight derail here.
I renewed my drivers license recently and noticed there is a gold star in the upper right corner on the front.
Anyone know why that's there?
DenverGP
11-23-2015, 15:16
Slight derail here.
I renewed my drivers license recently and noticed there is a gold star in the upper right corner on the front.
Anyone know why that's there?
All renewed and new driver's licenses and ID cards issued on or after July 1, 2013 in Colorado will have a gold star in the upper right hand corner. The star indicates that the identity documents are in compliance with the Federal Real ID Act
Thanks. I was thinking I did something good to get the gold star and might get preferential treatment during a traffic stop. Lol.
I've had two situations where I've let an officer know I was carrying.
First, I ended up with his gun pointed at me. I put my hands up and explained that I wasn't a danger. He actually calmed down and started talking to me about my pistol. He was a cool guy.
Second, I ended up having to take a field sobriety test in front of the cop and many backups. After an hour of being harassed he let me go. This guy was a complete douche asshole!
In both cases I got no ticket.
GoldFinger
11-23-2015, 16:26
A little spin on this topic, but relevant.
What if you're in a k-12 school parking lot waiting for son / daughter to get out and give them a ride home. For whatever reason, a LEO approaches your vehicle and asks you step out? The catch is you are legally carrying a pistol on your waste, but the moment you step out of your vehicle you are committing a felony by having it on school property. Obviously, you don't go to remove your side arm while the LEO is there, but if that LEO is already a bit excited about something they may not want to hear you out either.
My thought was that if this happened I'd probably loudly announce to the LEO that I have a CCW and let him know that he's basically making me commit a felony (in as nice a way as possible), but even that seems like it could come across wrong / aggressive.
Any better thoughts on that approach?
milwaukeeshaker
11-23-2015, 16:32
You are a good boy and did your chores??? :)
Slight derail here.
I renewed my drivers license recently and noticed there is a gold star in the upper right corner on the front.
Anyone know why that's there?
newracer
11-23-2015, 16:33
A little spin on this topic, but relevant.
What if you're in a k-12 school parking lot waiting for son / daughter to get out and give them a ride home. For whatever reason, a LEO approaches your vehicle and asks you step out? The catch is you are legally carrying a pistol on your waste, but the moment you step out of your vehicle you are committing a felony by having it on school property. Obviously, you don't go to remove your side arm while the LEO is there, but if that LEO is already a bit excited about something they may not want to hear you out either.
My thought was that if this happened I'd probably loudly announce to the LEO that I have a CCW and let him know that he's basically making me commit a felony (in as nice a way as possible), but even that seems like it could come across wrong / aggressive.
Any better thoughts on that approach?
I'd tell the officer that I was armed and that I would need to secure the firearm before exiting the vehicle.
If you are armed in your vehicle and an officer asks you to step out of the vehicle. You can mention to the officer that you are armed. If the officer continues to order you out of your vehicle, your defense against prosecution if the officer charges you with unlawful possession, would be that you were entrapped into committing a crime by the officer.
Slow hand movements in clear view and no where near your firearm.
Some LE like firearms. Many LE don't like firearms. Some LE from both groups don't think anyone else has as much right to have a firearm as they do. One person's courtesy is another man's offense.
You have no idea before or during the interaction which type of LE you are dealing with. For that reason, I try to keep the amount of information I provide to the minimum possible. I would much rather offend someone by what I don't say vs try to make someone happy by saying what I think they may want to hear.
Be safe.
I have gotten out of more tickets by cooperating and being polite than you can imagine. By the time the officer reaches my vehicle, it is shut off, the drivers window is completely down, my sunglasses have been removed, and both of my hands are on the steering wheel awaiting further instruction from the officer. If he is a bit slow getting up to my window I usually have my license, insurance, and registration handy as well. No matter how the stop plays out, my last words to the officer are "have a nice day and stay safe."
The last time I was pulled over I was on my way home from the range. I had several long guns and three or four handguns in the back of the cab. I didn't mention them and he either didn't notice or he just didn't ask about them.
I'm with the majority of you who have posted here. If I were asked to step out of my vehicle and I was armed I would calmly inform the officer I was carrying a handgun and await his instructions before exiting the vehicle.
GoldFinger
11-23-2015, 17:15
If you are armed in your vehicle and an officer asks you to step out of the vehicle. You can mention to the officer that you are armed. If the officer continues to order you out of your vehicle, your defense against prosecution if the officer charges you with unlawful possession, would be that you were entrapped into committing a crime by the officer.
That's the concern I had. Thanks for the advice.
ColoradoMinuteMan
11-23-2015, 21:14
During the shooting scare in Northern Colorado I was on I25 when traffic came to an abrupt stop in Loveland. After sitting still for 15 minutes I decided to drive off the shoulder which was a 4 foot strip of grass onto the frontage road since I was just going to the next exit. A Larimer county sheriff pulled me over and when he came up to the drivers side window he saw both my and my wife's carry pistols in their holsters in the center console. He just said hello and then said "I'll make you a deal, you keep your hand off your gun and I'll keep my hands off mine." I said "that sounds like a fair deal." He ran my license and registration came back up and said "have a safe day, and I suggest not going off the shoulder again unless you want a ticket." He was an example of how a well trained professional cop should act.
That's the concern I had. Thanks for the advice.
That correct advice is based off a supreme court decision just fyi.
hollohas
11-23-2015, 22:20
I've been pulled over only once, when I was 17. Obviously no permit involved then.
However, I was involved in an accident that had a responding officer near Sheridan. I was out of my car, the wind was blowing and my shirt kept lifting up. Rather than wait for the officer or another party to see my gun, I walked over to the officer and told him I was a permit holder and because there was a good chance my weapon was going to be seen by someone, I thought it best to let him know. He said, "thanks for letting me know, no problem at all". Didn't even ask to see my permit.
Not anymore.
I've been told by both a DPD officer and Arapahoe Co deputy that they are informed upon running plate/license. They've both had recent traffic stops when they got the notification. Pretty minor incidents, both stops got warnings. They're each friends of mine, I can reconfirm after T-Day.
milwaukeeshaker
11-24-2015, 09:39
Not supposed to happen anymore on traffic stops in Colorado. Not supposed to reference database of ccw holders. Same type of promise as the no database of firearm serials. Trust us, we are the Govt., we are here to help. Righhhtt.
I've been told by both a DPD officer and Arapahoe Co deputy that they are informed upon running plate/license. They've both had recent traffic stops when they got the notification. Pretty minor incidents, both stops got warnings. They're each friends of mine, I can reconfirm after T-Day.
And just confirmed with a friend on Aurora that they don't get notified. I might not have had all the details straight on the other two situations. Sorry for adding to or causing any confusion.
Great-Kazoo
11-24-2015, 10:11
And just confirmed with a friend on Aurora that they don't get notified. I might not have had all the details straight on the other two situations. Sorry for adding to or causing any confusion.
Tell that to the poster above you.
I've only handed mine over once when stopped for a drunk-check in Lone Tree in the middle of the night by a couple of bored LEO's. It was a non-issue.
Only other time I've been stopped was for speeding in Kiowa. I didn't hand it over or mention it, but I was on my way to the gun club and my truck had enough guns, ammo, targets and other shit to equip a platoon. The deputy HAD to see all of it, but didn't say a word, just gave me a ticket and the usual speech. I don't think he saw the .38 stuffed between the seats next to my thigh though.....
Tell that to the poster above you.
Hahahaha, got in touch with my two buddies just a bit ago and it turns out they didn't get the info upon running the plate/license but when they contacted the drivers when they (the drivers) had to get out of their cars in each case.
Again sorry for the bad info.
Jeffrey Lebowski
11-29-2015, 17:38
Like others here, I went through Colorado CCW almost 10 years ago and it was strongly suggested to us to disclose CCW / weapon on a traffic stop. Maybe 4 years ago I was speeding and pulled over off I-25 or I-40 in some hole in New Mexico. I did as suggested, windows down, truck off, hands on wheels, sunglasses off, etc. I had a pistol on an IWB at 4 o'clock. I mentioned it to the officer. He actually asked me out of the vehicle, it was spread eagle and hands on the bed, and without telling me, disarmed me. I was shocked. Since all windows were down, he dumped it on the dash, passenger side.
He took his sweet time and now I'm nervous b/c I'm on the interstate shoulder, cars are doing 55 or 65 or probably 85 (I was), and the windows are down and my dogs in the backseat are nervous over this guy. Thankfully, he did let me go back and put up the windows when I expressed that concern to him. He wasn't rude, but he wasn't polite either.
I won't be disclosing this sort of information again.
Cant remember if I replied to this thread.
In 3 instances 3 results.
Back road where future housing development, had zero traffic usually, no stop signs or lights or cross traffic. Ran up my R32 for the first time, as I was slowing down see oncoming cop. Behind me he starts turning around. Pulled myself over. Announced my firearm in the glovebox. He understood both not needing a permit for car concealed. Also complimented my xdm. That and a few other details seemed to caught me a break on a very very nasty result from what I was doing. Not since repeated.
One other was I think Ft Collins, was basically skip checking registration and just dont reach for it and otherwise fine. So pretty neutral.
Last one, prick Ftc cop. Comes off a side street in a under cover big truck. Tail gates me fairly aggressively. I speed up a smidge to give me space even knowing if he did hit me it'd be his liability. (Didnt know it was a cop.) I hit like 5 over and he lights me up. Upon notification, he took the xdm from glove box himself. Took it to his truck to run it. And upon returning with the only ticket out of my encounters, returned the xdm field stripped. Gave me a speech on needing a ccw and cutting me a break on that. (Politely as I could said he's wrong.) Then when turning over the gun, stated he didnt want me popping him in the back on the way to his car.... its like wtf mf'r. I did the hands in sight, window down, other nice things including courtesy notification. And you think I'm likely to get stupid after the stop is over?
I also have 3 encounters with LEOs while carrying where I notified them, and no problems to report... In the latter two cases I felt like I ought to make sure they knew:
1st was a traffic stop in 2008 by Douglas County sheriffs. I was caught in a speed trap and pulled over. I handed him both my DL and permit and I let him know I had a pistol in the door, and without even looking up he said okay, just don't reach for it. Wasn't expecting preferential treatment and got the ticket anyway.
2nd was the first of two encounters in or around the Titan missile silo out on the plains I'm sure many of you know - it was a blustery winter/spring day, and I had driven some friends out to the silo to explore and out of an abundance of caution, brought my BHP IWB. Apparently neighbors nearby had spotted our not-concealed-at-all car parked in the field and called Arapahoe sheriffs. We had explored for over an hour, and just as we were about to leave the silo, my friend climbs to the top of the escape hatch ladder and promptly loses his mind and yells OH SHIT COPS as 2 cruisers are parked 30 feet away. He trucks back down the ladder, and as we're discussing what to do, I see flashlights far in the distance down a tunnel, and then voices. At this time I put my gun & holster in my backpack. I call out, and we come to the two deputies - one guy, one woman.
As we're walking to the surface, the woman asks if any of us have any weapons, and being a little nervous, I say yes it's in my backpack, and dive in my pocket to show her my permit. She doesn't even flinch in spite of me being right next to her, and she says ok, just leave it there. We get to the surface, my petite and non-threatening schoolteacher wife gets grilled by Sergeant Overzealous Short Man Complex about gang affiliations while the rest of us BS with the female cop (who tells us "if I'm being honest? It's a lot of fun to go down there!") and we leave with just warnings.
3rd was also at the silo, probably 6 years later - this time we're out at night, and I'm trying to find an approach that won't get us seen. So we come in from a different direction, park the truck, and start walking. It's November and cold, and there's no moon, so this sucks. We're probably 1000 feet away from the silo when two Arapahoe county sheriff trucks (that I had seen in town) come blazing up the drive to the silo, and park. Not wanting an encounter, we hit the dirt... and wait.... and wait... While the LEOs screw around with their column-mounted lights and then, inexplicably, get on the PA and start making a sound that I can only describe as heavy breathing. I'm pretty sure they knew we were SOMEWHERE out there - still not sure how - and that they were fucking with us.
After waiting over half an hour and being very cold, we decide to make a retreat, two of us at a time. It's possible they saw our friends' reflective coat, or that being the overfunded agency that they are, that they have NVGs? Not sure. Either way, we walk the half mile away from them back to the truck, and we get in. The dome light comes on, but we were over a rise from them - I'm confident they couldn't have seen this... Either way, as I'm reversing the truck back out to the main road, here come the deputies again. I stop the truck, and two VERY excited LEOs come up and ask us what we're doing. I explain to them that we're "looking for a missile silo we read about on the internet", and their demeanor instantly changes - for the positive! They relax, and tell us they thought we were copper thieves trying to steal copper from the power substation nearby. During this interaction I hand the guy at my door my license and permit and tell him my pistol is in my backpack, in the rear of the truck, and again, same story, okay, just leave it there, etc.
The best part of this story: after making sure none of us had warrants, they come back, and we proceed to have the most fun conversation I've ever had with a cop:
"Now, you're all adults, and I'm not going to TELL you that you CAN'T go to the silo - but - if you were looking for the silo, you're REALLY CLOSE to it!" ..........
......... They gave us permission to go check out the silo in as much of a way as they could. It was hilarious. We thank them, bid them a good night, and I proceed to drive directly to the silo through the main entrance. Hilarity. Those were cool cops.
In all these cases I let them know that I had a permit AND was carrying as a courtesy to their safety. If an LEO thinks I'm doing it for preferential treatment, that's a prick attitude to take - it's both an offer to make sure you know I care about us both being safe and neither of us being surprised, and should also be an indicator that I'm not a dude running around with a rap sheet that would prevent me from having a permit. I figure that's being a reasonable and responsible citizen; if a cop responds poorly to that, there's clearly bigger problems with said cop than I have with them. I have never handed my permit to a cop or said anything about it if I'm not carrying.
They know.
i was pulled over in my wife's car (GF at the time). I was driving her car, she was a passenger. Early AM before sunrise. he came up asked for license and registration, gave it to him, he went back, then all of a sudden hits his spot lights and comes over the loudspeaker asking if I have a firearm. I shake my head no. He comes up agitated telling me I'm supposed to let him know if I'm a permit holder. I told him that is not a requirement but apologize for upsetting him. He ended up giving me a warning and we went on our merry ways.
They know.
i was pulled over in my wife's car (GF at the time). I was driving her car, she was a passenger. Early AM before sunrise. he came up asked for license and registration, gave it to him, he went back, then all of a sudden hits his spot lights and comes over the loudspeaker asking if I have a firearm. I shake my head no. He comes up agitated telling me I'm supposed to let him know if I'm a permit holder. I told him that is not a requirement but apologize for upsetting him. He ended up giving me a warning and we went on our merry ways.
That was before the change.
HoneyBadger
12-03-2015, 09:14
They know.
i was pulled over in my wife's car (GF at the time). I was driving her car, she was a passenger. Early AM before sunrise. he came up asked for license and registration, gave it to him, he went back, then all of a sudden hits his spot lights and comes over the loudspeaker asking if I have a firearm. I shake my head no. He comes up agitated telling me I'm supposed to let him know if I'm a permit holder. I told him that is not a requirement but apologize for upsetting him. He ended up giving me a warning and we went on our merry ways.
That's awkward... Seems like he could have handled it a lot differently... surprising people with guns is generally not a good idea.
That was before the change.
I guess I missed something, what change?
I hand them both my Dl and ccw just as a courtesy. If I'm lawfully carting I obviously don't have a criminal past
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Tremek,
Always thought your wife was a little shady...gang affiliations huh
Zundfolge
01-05-2016, 22:28
Several of you guys mention having your license, registration, insurance and CHL out and ready and windows and glove boxes opened before the cop gets to the window (what? You didn't take the time to make him a sandwich too? :p ).
I've always just turned the car off and had my hands on the steering wheel when he gets up there and then awaited instructions. Seems to me if he sees you digging around for stuff and reaching all over the place that would make him nervous.
I've always just turned the car off and had my hands on the steering wheel...
...and turn the dome light on.
O2
Several of you guys mention having your license, registration, insurance and CHL out and ready and windows and glove boxes opened before the cop gets to the window (what? You didn't take the time to make him a sandwich too? :p ).
I've always just turned the car off and had my hands on the steering wheel when he gets up there and then awaited instructions. Seems to me if he sees you digging around for stuff and reaching all over the place that would make him nervous.
I do the same thing when I got lit up. Window down, ignition off, hazards on, and BOTH hands on the wheel 10 and 2 o'clock. Await instructions. Never have I felt the need to inform them I'm CCW. BTW, they're watching for movement in your vehicle before they approach. I sit still.
mousegun87
01-09-2016, 11:02
I think it depends on the officer that performs the traffic stop. Personally, I would volunteer the info on CHL at the beginning of the traffic stop. A few yrs ago I got pulled over for going over the speed limit in a dark and empty county road, just a few blocks away from home. Pulled over to an empty parking lot, shut down the engine, and get my DL, car registration, and insurance ready. A deputy from my county's SD came up and asked me if I knew why I was pulled over. I guessed that I went over the speed limit and he confirmed it. He then asked for my DL, registration and insurance. I handed them over and told him that I have CHL and was carrying on my person at that time. I asked how he wanted me to proceed regarding the ccw. He asked me where I was carrying (I replied), and told me to just leave it in there and not to reach into that area of my body where the gun was located. He went back to his cruiser, wrote the ticket, and came back to give me the ticket along with instructions how to respond to the ticket. He wished me a safe driving and a good night, and send me on my way home. That's it. Keep in mind, this was Weld Co. SD. and Sheriff Cooke (then) and Reams (now) are both very strong 2nd amendment supporters and defenders. I think this view is also shared by most (if not all) of the deputies. I have not met a single Weld Co. deputy who is not supportive of armed citizenry, esp. those with CHL.
I'm not in the habit of doing things that get one pulled over :) Only time it happened while carrying the trooper was informed, and he only asked where it was located. This was a few years ago, but he also mentioned that El Paso doesn't show up in their database (which I had read here, but it was nice to see it proven).
Like some others have said, these days I would stereotype based on the vehicle assuming it was daylight. Locals and troopers get the benefit of the doubt, Denver not so much.
ColoradoTJ
01-10-2016, 13:42
A few years back I got stopped for speeding, was NOT carrying at the time.
Officer gets my info, goes back and writes ticket, comes back to the car and gives me a ticket and my ID back. As I go to put my ID back he sees my concealed carry permit.
He immediately drew his weapon into a low ready position and asked what that was. I reponded it was my concealed carry permit, but I wasn't carrying. His entire attitude changed and he stood there yelling at me for 5 minutes + about how I put his life in danger by not letting him know upfront that I had a concealed weapons permit. I explained several times that besides my small pocket knife there were no weapons in the vehicle, he said that didn't matter and I put him in harms way and he didn't need that shit.
I really hope you called his superiors and filed a complaint. Seriously.
Most often, I've been pulled over on the bike, never been pulled over when I didn't deserve it. Always remove my helmet and put it on the mirror, have my DL, PoI, registration, and CCW permit out, and both hands clearly visible. Bike gets turned off, and sidestand down. I've gotten out of more tickets than I have received in those situations, and several times the cop has thanked me for informing him. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I think attitude has more to do with how the cop treats you than anything else.
I guess I missed something, what change?
They changed the law prohibiting a database so LE knows of your CCW... I've been told that my agency (Adams County) doesn't pull a CCW notification when they clear a person (NCIC/CCIC query) even if that county is the issuing agency.
Would never volunteer my CCW information. It's basically asking to get cuffed for "officer safety" while they do their thing. If asked, I wouldn't lie, but there is absolutely no reason to volunteer that info.
Halojumper
03-17-2016, 09:26
I've been told by both a DPD officer and Arapahoe Co deputy that they are informed upon running plate/license. They've both had recent traffic stops when they got the notification. Pretty minor incidents, both stops got warnings. They're each friends of mine, I can reconfirm after T-Day.
I asked my former brother in law, who is DPD, about that and he said he ran me and it did come up tied to my plate. Some time later, I was doing a ride along with an APD friend and I had him run my plate and it came up in flashing red that I was a permit holder.
Doc, you got your bike fixed yet? We need to ride soon!
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-25-2016, 16:51
I asked my former brother in law, who is DPD, about that and he said he ran me and it did come up tied to my plate. Some time later, I was doing a ride along with an APD friend and I had him run my plate and it came up in flashing red that I was a permit holder.
Doc, you got your bike fixed yet? We need to ride soon!
What does it do for a convicted felon?
OneGuy67
04-25-2016, 16:55
What does it do for a convicted felon?
Nothing. Neither does it hit for permit holders. At the state level, there is no registry to tie to CCIC entries.
lostcolorado
04-25-2016, 19:52
Nothing recent, but I've been pulled over a handful of times in Colorado both as a resident and nonresident. After they have my DL, vehicle registration and insurance, state troopers alway ask if I have firearms, knives or other weapons in the vehicle. When asked I answer "yes" and hand them my permit. Next question is always are you military or LE. I answer "no" they walk to their cruiser and look me up.
Sometimes there is discussion as to what I have and where. Usually the encounter result in a warning and we go our separate ways.
Limited GM
04-28-2016, 23:31
I've had permits in 4 states. Use to, I'd simply hand it to them with ID. Now, when asked, I simply say, "I have nothing illegal nor of concern." They usually ask me again, I reply with same and they drop it.
Ive been a firearms instructor for many year and worked with a lot of departments. The last thing I want, is someone not familiar with my loaded weapon, handling it. If they were to have an AD, how do you think the story would be told?
ColoradoTJ
05-02-2016, 19:06
I've had permits in 4 states. Use to, I'd simply hand it to them with ID. Now, when asked, I simply say, "I have nothing illegal nor of concern." They usually ask me again, I reply with same and they drop it.
Ive been a firearms instructor for many year and worked with a lot of departments. The last thing I want, is someone not familiar with my loaded weapon, handling it. If they were to have an AD, how do you think the story would be told?
Totally agree with this and have a new way to approach the question. Thank you.
No longer is your CCW in the database, in CO. Happened a few years ago, but I still talk to lots of folks with the impression it is.
Martinjmpr
05-05-2016, 14:38
No longer is your CCW in the database, in CO. Happened a few years ago, but I still talk to lots of folks with the impression it is.
I got stopped by Denver PD last year for blowing a stop sign. During the stop the officer said "I see you have a concealed weapons permit, do you have a weapon with you now?" I suppose it could be because I got my permit when I was a Denver resident that I was still in their city database, but as of last year, at least, the police seemed to have that info.
OneGuy67
05-06-2016, 01:27
I got stopped by Denver PD last year for blowing a stop sign. During the stop the officer said "I see you have a concealed weapons permit, do you have a weapon with you now?" I suppose it could be because I got my permit when I was a Denver resident that I was still in their city database, but as of last year, at least, the police seemed to have that info.
As a state LEO, I can tell you it isn't on your DMV or CCIC clearance check or associated to any state record. I would lean towards a local database accessed.
It used to be that CCW's were entered into CCIC as a Warrant Entry and you had to read the expanded information on it to know it wasn't an arrest warrant. There were a number of times (back in the day) when I cleared a plate in my vehicle and the software cleared the registered owner as well and gave me a Pinging noise to indicate a possible arrest warrant for the registered owner. I would have to continue following the vehicle while pulling up the information only to find out it was a data entry for a CCW.
Thanks OneGuy67, I'm glad to hear that confirmed. It does make me wonder how it does happen, but local database seems the best explanation.
Got pulled over, and ticketed, just this week. Did not hand over ccw, everything went fine. It looked like the guy was considering letting me off, but in the end he didn't.
HoneyBadger
05-10-2016, 09:42
So they didn't find all the cocaine in your spare tire well?
Yeah, but it wasn't mine so they let me go.
HoneyBadger
05-10-2016, 11:19
Yeah, but it wasn't mine so they let me go.
Psh... typical!
Rucker61
05-10-2016, 12:34
I got a speeding ticket in 1979. Have things changed since then?
I have a buddy who's a DPD lieutenant and he told me that they could care less about CCW permit holders. What he wants to see is that you turn on your flashers which acknowledges that you see he's asking you to pull over. That you pull over somewhere safe for him. Turn off the ignition, roll both windows down and place your hands palms up on the steering wheel. Don't be ruminging in your console or glovebox for paperwork as he is approaching, wait for him to ask for it. In his words, it's your hands that will hurt him and the gun in your pants can't hurt him as long as he can always see your hands.
ColoradoTJ
06-19-2016, 14:21
I got a speeding ticket in 1979. Have things changed since then?
Probably not, but I was 5....
I have a buddy who's a DPD lieutenant and he told me that they could care less about CCW permit holders. What he wants to see is that you turn on your flashers which acknowledges that you see he's asking you to pull over. That you pull over somewhere safe for him. Turn off the ignition, roll both windows down and place your hands palms up on the steering wheel. Don't be ruminging in your console or glovebox for paperwork as he is approaching, wait for him to ask for it. In his words, it's your hands that will hurt him and the gun in your pants can't hurt him as long as he can always see your hands.
Yup.
Most police just assume you are armed. Most police are also taught that if you didn't bring a weapon, they did, and there are plenty of police who have been shot with the gun they carry.
Be polite. Be professional. Be safe.
It goes for every interaction regardless of which side of the badge you are on.
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