View Full Version : No thread yet? Turkey shot down Russian Bomber/fighter.
Cnn article http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html
Has video of parachutes being shot at. They are 2.5 miles inside turkey, but cnn says syrians shooting at them.
Friends already linked me this video showing a TOW attack on landed russian HIND assumable looking for crew. Given they are supposed to be in Turkey, not sure if it's rebels or syrians, or turkey themselves. Guy seems reasonably trained checking back blast area etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0
Very angry myself. I think Russia has a lot to answer for with some of the Ukraine situation. On the other hand lately he's arguably doing more to fight ISIS and any armed militia groups than Obama at the moment. Some say oh he's hitting our rebels. But to me that's an issue since once we stop arming/funding them, they just become taliban 2.0 history has shown. US is grumpy their puppets are being blown up essentially in this proxy war. If it's actual Turkish forces shooting at downed pilots and rescue crews, me thinks NATO membership should be reconsidered.
spqrzilla
11-24-2015, 12:03
If they have started arming turkeys, spring hunting season is going to be tougher ...
SamuraiCO
11-24-2015, 12:22
Turkey is a NATO allies. Things getting real and our POTUS and the French PM are congratulating each other on their commitment to the fight on global climate change.
On the other hand lately he's arguably doing more to fight ISIS and any armed militia groups than Obama at the moment.
Obama just called Putin out for not doing as much as he is to fight ISIS.
Obama also says police and guns are our countries problems. Doesnt mean much to me. This is the same government questioning toyota why their vehicles are seen overseas when they are a world top producer/seller in those regions to start mixed with the documented trucks given in Aid by US/EU to assorted groups over there then wonder why they turn up.
ISIS may be a extra bad flavor out there, but everyone of those armed groups is just as happy to turn on us when their existing goal is done or we stop paying. It's almost like a international scale bribery type thing like the stereotyped mexican cop.
This is going to get interesting. I don't doubt for a second that Putin will retaliate against Turkey. Turkey is NATO. Not sure what the Nato response will be beyond puffing up their chest. I don't think they want the fight, because well... what have they ever done to check Russian aggression?
Turkey has warned Russia many many times about violating their airspace and considering it an act of war. They are in their right to defend their sovereignty. I really really really hope this doesn't go where I'm positive it is heading. I think Turkey is getting all puffy because they are NATO and THINK the rest of Nato is behind them, even though they have not been great allies or done ANYTHING to check fighters going to Syria for ISIS. They're playing above their station in this world and it's going to get interesting.
As a rational person not a puffed up nation state that cares about some stuff for no reason.
To me, even by the turkish radar track, they crossed one little tiny peninsula area. Given it's turkey their shit may not even be accurate. Now if this thing had made a beeline straight through the country, yeah a little shittier. On the other hand, lets say for arguments sake a canadian jet entered us airspace multiple times near the border. I dont see us exactly shooting it down. The global community thing to do these days is diplomatically go yell at them after the fact. Maybe someone was being dumb and they fire a general or a pilot. Not shoot the fucker down knowing what kind of shit show it's going to start, then depending who it is, also try to shoot the damn parachutes and rescue craft.
HoneyBadger
11-24-2015, 12:59
Are there some tense relations with Canada that I am not aware of? Hahahahahaha bad analogy.
As a rational person not a puffed up nation state that cares about some stuff for no reason.
To me, even by the turkish radar track, they crossed one little tiny peninsula area. Given it's turkey their shit may not even be accurate. Now if this thing had made a beeline straight through the country, yeah a little shittier. On the other hand, lets say for arguments sake a canadian jet entered us airspace multiple times near the border. I dont see us exactly shooting it down. The global community thing to do these days is diplomatically go yell at them after the fact. Maybe someone was being dumb and they fire a general or a pilot. Not shoot the fucker down knowing what kind of shit show it's going to start, then depending who it is, also try to shoot the damn parachutes and rescue craft.
Russia has been warned many many times. It was all over the news when their build up started. Russian has been testing borders with bombers and fighters for some time. US/British/Turkish.. other Nato allies. It's been increasing over the last few years. Wasn't it 4th of July that Russia had a pair of bombers doing down the west coast?
Are there some tense relations with Canada that I am not aware of? Hahahahahaha bad analogy.
Make it mexico?
I wasn't aware of turkey being particularly anti russia atm. It's not like its israel/iran where youd expect this.
Monkey, true. I kinda think it's childish games. Maybe hoping for a provocation. I'm sad nothing was really done about ukraine which is where lives and things actually affected people. Vs just some jets flying around.
Whatever Russia's transgressions, I still think shooting something down unless you are prepared for open conflict is a bit silly. And even if you did decide yeap, shoot it. I'm not happy about shooting at parachutes. That's pretty low.
My concern is three fold: 1) Turkey does have nuclear weapons through a NATO sharing pact. I hope they don't posture and threaten with Russia... All out war between the two could be bad, and we all know Obama won't do anything to help our NATO allies.
2) Russia is overshadowing the US/Coalition response to ISIS, and this is more fuel for Russia to take to the world stage in garnering reduction in support for the US and our allies.
3) Turkey is kind of a wishy washy ally in that they're a part of NATO, they're supposedly our friends, yet they're actively fighting the Kurds, who have pretty much been our solid ally since day 1 in Iraq (talking 1991-Present).
Let's see how crappy Obama's foreign policy really is in how he handles this. Could get dicey.
*yawn*..
We have been through this before. Total non-event.
Now there's a debate about if the SU-24 was actually in Turkish airspace. I find the Turks about as credible as the Russians, so I'm torn and will have to wait for more info.
One thing I do find remarkable is that Turkey, as noted a NATO ally, and anti-Assad forces (notice I didn't use the ISIS word ;) ) coordinated three things...
1. Shooting down the SU-24 with an F-16
2. Ground forces firing on the pilots in air (war crime)
3. Taking out a Russian helo on the rescue mission with a US provided TOW
One of these things would probably be a non-event. The three of them together, so close to Turkey, with US weapons? I'm not sure...
It's good thing Hillary succeeded in the reset with Russia, otherwise the Peace Prize President might actually be starting WWIII/IV (depending on your point of view). Obama will not give up on his quest to remove Assad even as it gets more expensive and risky. No one will talk about that.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/24/9cb907b80cba10b76a0f12001b708487.jpg
Turkey shot down a plane! We should declare war on turkeys november 26th!
Turkey has the world's 10th largest military currently, behind Japan. While not exactly a case of the chihuahua attacking the T-Rex, they are way out of their league provoking Russia(2nd largest military, behind the US). Hopefully they realize this and make the appropriate apologetic noises/diplomatic reparations. The last thing we need in that region is yet another layer of complication.
A bunch of "freedom fighters" also blew up a Russian rescue helicopter using a US-made TOW missile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0
A bunch of "freedom fighters" also blew up a Russian rescue helicopter using a US-made TOW missile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0
What does the country of origin have to do with it? Maybe they ran out of their stash of Russian made weapons?
What does the country of origin have to do with it? Maybe they ran out of their stash of Russian made weapons?
Not to mention we have been shot at, and soldiers killed by, with pretty much purely russian weapons in almost every conflict we have been in since Korea. So I don't really feel that bad.
A bunch of "freedom fighters" also blew up a Russian rescue helicopter using a US-made TOW missile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0
Was linked on first page. Just didnt get all fancy imbedding it.
sellersm
11-24-2015, 18:31
Bill Holter responds: http://www.jsmineset.com/2015/11/24/a-rotten-turkey-for-thanksgiving/
I'm confused. Since when are borders worth defending?
Oh, this happened in Turkey. Who's trying to become an undocumented worker in Turkey? They should just come here. We'll roll-out a 'Welcome' mat.
What does the country of origin have to do with it? Maybe they ran out of their stash of Russian made weapons?
This aint Army surplus they're using. The US has for decades been arming "moderate" rebels only to have it blow up in our face within a few years.
HoneyBadger
11-24-2015, 20:10
http://i.imgur.com/9D1Rde3.jpg
HoneyBadger
11-24-2015, 20:12
http://i.imgur.com/JpjdLf2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pfbKlf2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dE1fEUm.jpg
Just searched "is world war 3 starting", a writer posted an article four days ago and turkey shoots down a Russian plane was one of the five listed sparks to a global conflict. Interesting prophecy, here's to Russia dealing with it in a way that doesn't raise the stakes.
On on a side note, does anyone else find it surreal that YouTube has video of real live conflicts like the missile above? Our world is jacked up.
BushMasterBoy
11-24-2015, 21:38
My crystal ball sees Turkey paying reparations to Russia.
So....is turkey cooked, stuffed or fried?
So....is turkey cooked, stuffed or fried?
Turkey is in hot water just before Thanksgiving.
Just searched "is world war 3 starting", a writer posted an article four days ago and turkey shoots down a Russian plane was one of the five listed sparks to a global conflict. Interesting prophecy, here's to Russia dealing with it in a way that doesn't raise the stakes.
On on a side note, does anyone else find it surreal that YouTube has video of real live conflicts like the missile above? Our world is jacked up.
As easy as predicting snow in Colorado this winter.
Syria is a quagmire with both sides firmly dug it, sending weapons/support to groups that can't be trusted. We gave TOWs to groups with one degree of separation from Al Qaeda and ISIS. Economic and security agreements binding the major players. It was a matter of time before someone got froggy. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't gotten more interesting.
I don't find it surreal there is video. I think the shoot down was coordinated and given the coverage ground forces have, don't think it was a coincidence they were in place to shoot at the pilots and take out the Russia helo without that coordination. If you knew all of that was going to happen, why not video/distribute it for propaganda?
So what's the Russian response going to be? If a response was justified, they have the ships and weaponry on the east and west of Turkey to destroy the base where the fighter launched from. I have a feeling our boys are at that base though, and that complicates a LOT of things.
So what's the Russian response going to be? If a response was justified, they have the ships and weaponry on the east and west of Turkey to destroy the base where the fighter launched from. I have a feeling our boys are at that base though, and that complicates a LOT of things.
There won't be one other than posturing and saber rattling. Neither side wants that much instability (beyond the absurd fuckery that is already going on).
The country I'm watching in all of this is China. Putin won't do anything major unless he knows they will be his ally through it all. Their navy has already been dancing around our waters and antagonizing our allies in the Pacific over territorial disputes. He'd be able to use them and N Korea to put a shield on his eastern border.
funkymonkey1111
11-25-2015, 12:30
Very simple. Russia is fighting ISIS. The U.S. considers this the "J.V. team" that's been contained, except for that plane bombing, Paris, etc.
Marco Rubio gets up and mouths off that the muslim state of Turkey is part of NATO and we stand with it. Hence, Marco Rubio stands with ISIS.
Don't know who to trust between a turk and a rusky? If you're trusting the word of a muslim, well, do so at your own risk.
Very simple. Russia is fighting ISIS. The U.S. considers this the "J.V. team" that's been contained, except for that plane bombing, Paris, etc.
Marco Rubio gets up and mouths off that the muslim state of Turkey is part of NATO and we stand with it. Hence, Marco Rubio stands with ISIS.
Don't know who to trust between a turk and a rusky? If you're trusting the word of a muslim, well, do so at your own risk.
Darn good analysis.
Barack doesn't want to kill off his ISIS friends so he fumbles alot, easy to do when jofn effin kerry is in the mix.
Here's a good rundown of what has really been going on - me thinks.
Title does not really match content.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/11/25/what-if-the-turkish-shooting-of-russian-fighter-jet-was-also-to-protect-president-obama/
BushMasterBoy
11-25-2015, 13:35
Russian response is a deployment of s400 surface to air missiles. The mid east becomes a live testing ground for advanced weaponry. Sad, but true!
The mid east becomes a live testing ground for advanced weaponry.
Pretty sure that's been the case for the last 25+ years.
Patriot missiles
Panavia Tornado fighter/bomber
Stryker
M1 Abrams
M2 Bradley
F-15E
F/A-18E/F/G
Here's a good rundown of what has really been going on - me thinks.
Title does not really match content.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/11/25/what-if-the-turkish-shooting-of-russian-fighter-jet-was-also-to-protect-president-obama/
Very interesting theory.
President Obama wants to allow ISIS to exist, he essentially supports the expression of their views on Islam; however, he faces a problem where he must hide his intent because his viewpoint is antithetical to the rest of the world.
I see no evidence to the contrary. Many times it has been asked why ISIS is still around and operational if Obama really wants to be rid of them.
When France wanted to retaliate against ISIS, Hollande didn't invoke NATO, he invoked Lisbon. It wasn't the Canadians who would stand in his way. It wasn't his fellow Europeans either.
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