View Full Version : Looking for my first AK
johngraves2
11-25-2015, 20:11
So I am looking for my first AK. Been doing a lot of research and reading as much as I can find, but I have a few questions.
Stamped vs milled? Does it matter with AKs?
Side Optic Mounting Rail, does it work? Is it worth getting a rifle with one already on?
I would like to buy American made, but this seems like a new concept this year, have they worked out the bugs and are they good quality?
Specifically I am looking at:
DDI http://ddiarms.myshopify.com/pages/ddiak47sfmm
PSA http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak47-moe.html
Century http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI2360-N
Kalashnikov USA http://www.kalashnikov-usa.com/firearms/rifle-with-synthetic-stock-us132s
Thanks everyone.
Bought my first AK back around 1990. I've had about seven or eight of them on and off through the years. Not sure why you'd want an American made knock off of a Soviet designed rifle. Anyhow, should you decide to go with an import, I personally like the Eastern European models from countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc.
Oh, and as far as stamped vs. milled, I find the milled ones way too heavy for my liking.
Great-Kazoo
11-25-2015, 20:45
So I am looking for my first AK. Been doing a lot of research and reading as much as I can find, but I have a few questions.
Stamped vs milled? Does it matter with AKs?
Side Optic Mounting Rail, does it work? Is it worth getting a rifle with one already on?
I would like to buy American made, but this seems like a new concept this year, have they worked out the bugs and are they good quality?
Specifically I am looking at:
DDI http://ddiarms.myshopify.com/pages/ddiak47sfmm
PSA http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak47-moe.html
Century http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI2360-N
Kalashnikov USA http://www.kalashnikov-usa.com/firearms/rifle-with-synthetic-stock-us132s
Thanks everyone.
The bugs were worked out years ago. Now QC that's where any issue may lie.
FWIW: The first 3 are the same rifle. Kalish USA has nice ones. I'd buy the cheapest possible and spend the rest on ammo. It's an AK. The ones built off a parts kit and receiver flat (when done correctly) shoot as good and accurate as one ready to go. Hence my suggestion buy the cheapest.
Stamped or milled really doesn't matter with an AK. You'll have the people swear by just milled and give all the hype in the world on how it's better. Lets face it, an AK was not designed to be a sub MOA weapon. Unless your going to spend LOTS of time and money into accurizing it it's pointless.
Now a side optic mount is a plus. You can always go with either commie optics or get a real good us optic setup for one. RS regulate has some of the best setups and you can use your flavor of optic on it. http://www.rsregulate.com/ I have one on most my fixed stock and sidefolders, they just wont work with an underfolder unless you mod the arms. Best bet there would be to get a top mount rail from Texas weapon systems.
Now I have this thing about all American built AK's- they suck. The commies have been making them longer than we have been making AR's and there damn good at it. I would recommend a WASR or find a real nice kit and have it built, or even spend some coin and get an Arsenel. Keep your eyes open in the market place and you may find a decent deal. Don't wait too long though, elections are coming and so will the price increases.
The bugs were worked out years ago. Now QC that's where any issue may lie.
FWIW: The first 3 are the same rifle. Kalish USA has nice ones. I'd buy the cheapest possible and spend the rest on ammo. It's an AK. The ones built off a parts kit and receiver flat (when done correctly) shoot as good and accurate as one ready to go. Hence my suggestion buy the cheapest.
Thanks for clearing that up Kazoo- the qc with the early ones were pretty shoddy
Stamped or milled really doesn't matter with an AK. You'll have the people swear by just milled and give all the hype in the world on how it's better. Lets face it, an AK was not designed to be a sub MOA weapon. Unless your going to spend LOTS of time and money into accurizing it it's pointless.
Now a side optic mount is a plus. You can always go with either commie optics or get a real good us optic setup for one. RS regulate has some of the best setups and you can use your flavor of optic on it. http://www.rsregulate.com/ I have one on most my fixed stock and sidefolders, they just wont work with an underfolder unless you mod the arms. Best bet there would be to get a top mount rail from Texas weapon systems.
Now I have this thing about all American built AK's- they suck. The commies have been making them longer than we have been making AR's and there damn good at it. I would recommend a WASR or find a real nice kit and have it built, or even spend some coin and get an Arsenel. Keep your eyes open in the market place and you may find a decent deal. Don't wait too long though, elections are coming and so will the price increases.
Normally I would agree with you on most things AK. But you say in your first paragraph that the AK wasn't designed to be a sub MOA weapon and follow that up immediately with the benefits of putting an optic on a rifle that wasn't designed to be accurate. Lol.
To me, the AK wasn't originally designed for any sort of optics and I prefer to keep it simple and just run iron sights.
Not knocking anyone else's choice to run an optic of some sort. I personally just don't feel the need for it.
Normally I would agree with you on most things AK. But you say in your first paragraph that the AK wasn't designed to be a sub MOA weapon and follow that up immediately with the benefits of putting an optic on a rifle that wasn't designed to be accurate. Lol.
To me, the AK wasn't originally designed for any sort of optics and I prefer to keep it simple and just run iron sights.
Not knocking anyone else's choice to run an optic of some sort. I personally just don't feel the need for it.
Lol! You have a point Ray. I was meaning an optic more for quicker target acquisition as opposed to any real accuracy.
Mikhail Kalashnikov didn't intend on them having any optics, but the newer modern ones do. The main reason I run optics on mine is cause my eyes aint what they used to be and I hate wasting ammo at todays prices.[Coffee]
Now that I think about it the 74 series in 5.45x39 and the .556 ones were designed for more accuracy and that's where the optics would come in. I just have the 7.62x39s.(for now)
johngraves2
11-25-2015, 21:35
Normally I would agree with you on most things AK. But you say in your first paragraph that the AK wasn't designed to be a sub MOA weapon and follow that up immediately with the benefits of putting an optic on a rifle that wasn't designed to be accurate. Lol.
To me, the AK wasn't originally designed for any sort of optics and I prefer to keep it simple and just run iron sights.
Not knocking anyone else's choice to run an optic of some sort. I personally just don't feel the need for it.
I do agree. I know AKs aren't meant to be a super accurate rifle.
Oh come on AK's are more than accurate enough guys. I can run my Bulgy with accuracy and then some. It's all in the person running the gun.
Great-Kazoo
11-25-2015, 22:03
I do agree. I know AKs aren't meant to be a super accurate rifle.
My 106 was on the money, right up there with the 12.5 & 16" AR's. I have a RDS on the SBR'd draco. Tried a 1-4 on another AK. Just didn't do it. I might try one of those texas rails. Lower the RDS closer to center of bore then the side mount does.
All one needs is a legit happy switch / pre 86 and call it good.
BPTactical
11-26-2015, 09:42
Go with a genuine CommBloc rifle such as Arsenal, FEG, Ishmash(Saiga), Molot(VEPR), Zastava(Yugo M70 series, OPAP) Cugir (WASR), Maadi and the like.
All are genuine AK variants from Eastern block countries made under license of Kalishnakov. There is nothing wrong with the Century IMPORTED guns, you just have to look them over closely for things such as canted front sights, trunnions being square with the receiver and such.
I would stay away from the 100% US manufactured Century guns for a while, they are an unproven commodity and there are examples of abnormal wear on bolts, carriers and trunnions.
Nothing in the world wrong with a WASR, they are fairly inexpensive and a stout little rifle.
I saw an older, ban era Norinco on Armslist the other day for $500. Sure it sold quick. I should have tried to buy it. It was still in the old thumb hole stock. With 922R compliance parts readily available it would have been easy to convert over to its proper configuration.
Oh come on AK's are more than accurate enough guys. I can run my Bulgy with accuracy and then some. It's all in the person running the gun.
Define accurate enough.
Your version of accurate enough might not match someone else's...
Define accurate enough.
Your version of accurate enough might not match someone else's...
True statement. How many people do you see running an AK at long range precision shooting like you all do? Probably none. Define the exact problem and get an exact solution.
BPTactical
11-26-2015, 11:48
Realistically- if you can put a mag full of ammo on a plate sized target at 100 yards the machine is doing just what it was made to do.
Minute of Man.
And Ray is spot on, don't discount the ban era rifles. They can easily be brought back to their un neutered glory and they are great rifles.
And Ray is spot on, don't discount the ban era rifles. They can easily be brought back to their un neutered glory and they are great rifles.
I loved my Chinese rifles. Talk about true communist guns. I did find the ban era guns from Romania, Yugoslavia, and Bulgaria were a bit more accurate. And the Egyptian ones were crude and poorly fitted and finished but shot about like the Chinese guns.
Do any of the US made rifles use hammer forged, chrome lined barrels? Are parts like bolts and bolt carriers forged or are they cast or injection molded?
BPTactical
11-26-2015, 13:40
To the best of my knowledge Ray the bolts, carriers and trunnions are cast on the US rifles.
Cast components are pretty common on CommBloc rifles as well, but the US parts pale in comparison to them.
I cannot make an informed comment on the barrels.
I've personally seen a used ak74 put out a 1.5" group with surplus ammo and irons mag prone in the dirt at 100 yards measured.
If you want to use a red dot the ultimak is my choice. If you want to use a scope the side rail is the right choice. If you want to train alot with the rifle without a scope the side rail will tear you up.
Milled is about a pound heavier than stamped. When i shot them side by side the milled arsenal was slightly more accurate than the Romanian century built stamped ak47. At twice the price.
johngraves2
11-26-2015, 15:26
Thank you all. Your posts have been very helpful. Keep them coming if you have more thoughts to add.
I do shoot left handed. Doesn't bother me with my ARs, but how is it with an AK? Will it shoot straight into your face??
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BPTactical
11-26-2015, 17:06
Climb too far up on the rifle and your gonna get a bloody nose, the reciprocating charging handle is not southpaw friendly. I am sure a lot of leftys do shoot an AK but you are gonna get a faceful of gas.
Long range accurate? Not so much. 100 yards and I can hit the target all day.
A sows ear will not make a silk purse. Still one of my favorite firearms.
SideShow Bob
11-26-2015, 20:42
Climb too far up on the rifle and your gonna get a bloody nose, the reciprocating charging handle is not southpaw friendly. I am sure a lot of leftys do shoot an AK but you are gonna get a faceful of gas.
Tell me about it..........[Abused]
100 yards and I can hit the target all day.
Me too. Assuming the target is the size of a dinner plate. Or bigger.
Tell me about it..........[Abused]
As big a target as I have, never had a problem (southpaw) with climb/bloody nose.
SideShow Bob
11-26-2015, 21:38
As big a target as I have, never had a problem (southpaw) with climb/bloody nose.
The .mil trained me "Nose to charging handle", that is a hard habit to to unlearn and with an AK, that doesn't translate too well, it is mostly gas n brass to the face.
The safety is set up for right handed and the bolt handle for lefties. I really like the galil handle mods
Nose to the rear of the dust cover
Gunoholic
11-29-2015, 20:29
I'm a huge ak74 fan but have had a few 47s also. I'm going to assume u aren't planning to deer hunt with this ak, so I'd strongly suggest the 74...5.45x39... plenty lethal even on deer/others for wrol/shtf. Recoil management and just more fun to shoot imo.
Good luck, lots of decisions.
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Great-Kazoo
11-29-2015, 20:40
I'm a huge ak74 fan but have had a few 47s also. I'm going to assume u aren't planning to deer hunt with this ak, so I'd strongly suggest the 74...5.45x39... plenty lethal even on deer/others for wrol/shtf. Recoil management and just more fun to shoot imo.
Good luck, lots of decisions.
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With today's current 5.45 ammo prices AND future availability. I'd stay away from them. Now if one was to spend $$ on say 5 - 10K rounds. Then yes buy one.
So I am looking for my first AK. Been doing a lot of research and reading as much as I can find, but I have a few questions.
Stamped vs milled? Does it matter with AKs?
Side Optic Mounting Rail, does it work? Is it worth getting a rifle with one already on?
I would like to buy American made, but this seems like a new concept this year, have they worked out the bugs and are they good quality?
Specifically I am looking at:
DDI http://ddiarms.myshopify.com/pages/ddiak47sfmm
PSA http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak47-moe.html
Century http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI2360-N
Kalashnikov USA http://www.kalashnikov-usa.com/firearms/rifle-with-synthetic-stock-us132s
Thanks everyone.
Forget the US Made ones you have listed, they use cast trunions (PSA, IO Inc).. others are just rifles built from parts kits on new receivers (DDI though the quality of their builds is good), Kalashnikov USA has nothing to do with Kalashnikov Concern and their previous Saiga conversions done under their old name are questionable. Go with an original/imported rifle.
If you do not want to spend the money on an Arsenal then get a WASR from Atlantic Firearms.. They inspect each rifle before they go out the door and have a pretty good return policy.
Gunoholic
11-29-2015, 22:27
With today's current 5.45 ammo prices AND future availability. I'd stay away from them. Now if one was to spend $$ on say 5 - 10K rounds. Then yes buy one.
I agree with this to a degree. In store prices on 5.45 have been high for several years, but last time I checked you could buy it in 1k to 2k lots for around 21 cents a rounds. And I'm talking about the infamous 7n6...it's still around. I haven't been shopping in the last several months and normally buy a bunch when I do.
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Great-Kazoo
11-29-2015, 23:05
I agree with this to a degree. In store prices on 5.45 have been high for several years, but last time I checked you could buy it in 1k to 2k lots for around 21 cents a rounds. And I'm talking about the infamous 7n6...it's still around. I haven't been shopping in the last several months and normally buy a bunch when I do.
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Key words, BUY IN BULK. Getting a firearm that's a caliber other then one has, they should factor in (IMO) massive quantities of ammo. Todays bargain is tomorrows PANIC priced stuff.
I've been through enough "panic" buys, hints of a ban, bans, bans of ammo, guns and anything gun related, to say if you don't plan WAY AHEAD, don't be upset when there's no ammo. OR spare parts.
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