Did I screw up already?

[Robb]

I have my Trust in place. We are pursuing building a SBR. I just purchased a 16" rifle we are going to use as the project rifle.
I purchased this rifle in my name. Should I have purchased the rifle in the name of the Trust? Now I need to re-transfer the rifle from me personally to the Trust?

Yes you are correct, I am a little foggy on the whole process.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yes. The trust is Legally a different entity, of which you're the trustee.

[Robb]

Damn it. Figures...
Can my kitchen table FFL transfer the 16" rifle from me to my trust? Or is it more complicated than that?

Be gentle with me.

[kidicarus13]

You'll need an official FFL transfer from you to the Trust ($15-$50) + $7 background check. Thank you State of Colorado [facepalm]

[Robb]

You'll need an official FFL transfer from you to the Trust ($15-$50) + $7 background check. Thank you State of Colorado [facepalm]

Okay, no big deal. I'll pay the Dumbass Tax since I screwed up.
Anything special to know about doing this first time transfer to a Trust?

[Vitesse304]

anybody can purchase a rifle and have it listed under the trust after going through the SBR process. The rifle doesn't need to be purchased by the trust. there's no need to transfer it from you to a trust just because you intend to make it a SBR. It will be added to the trust or schedule A after getting the tax stamp and engraving it. As the trustee, you can add or take stuff away at will.

maybe im wrong, but I haven't had any issues with my form 1's and trust...
check with an NFA dealer or call the ATF for a definitive answer.

[SouthPaw]

@NFATrustGuy

[Great-Kazoo]

anybody can purchase a rifle and have it listed under the trust after going through the SBR process. The rifle doesn't need to be purchased by the trust. there's no need to transfer it from you to a trust just because you intend to make it a SBR. It will be added to the trust or schedule A after getting the tax stamp and engraving it. As the trustee, you can add or take stuff away at will.

maybe im wrong, but I haven't had any issues with my form 1's and trust...
check with an NFA dealer or call the ATF for a definitive answer. [facepalm]

Not at all.
We've been over this a few times. The trust is a different entity. Yes, you're the trustee. However the trust doesn't own the original firearm. ALL You get from the ATF is an approval for the reconfigured gun. SO............. John Doe (individual) must transfer approved item to John Dow TRUST. IF the OP applied as an individual, then no need for that other BGC.

[asmo]

Per your 4473 that you completed - Section A, Question 1:

When the buyer of a firearm is a corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity, an officer authorized to act on behalf of the business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity.

So just to be clear, did you or did you not follow the above requirement?

[Rooskibar03]

I know when buying something he has in stock or doing a transfer Noah has an additional form he has me sign for the items I'm putting into my Trust for NFA purposes. Check with your FFL.

[O2HeN2]

The short answer is yes, you screwed up already, unfortunately.

A question that hasn't yet been asked: Are their multiple people on the trust or just you? I ask because you use the word "we".

If multiple people you need a BGC AND acquisition statement for each and every person on the trust; here's a boilerplate of what I use (I got this from someone else):

FORM 4473
ACQUISITION STATEMENT




This statement is provided pursuant to the Notices, Instructions and Definitions section of ATF Form 4473. It is specifically offered to satisfy the instructions given for Section A, Question 1.


I am an authorized representative of the MY TRUST in that I am presently serving as Trustee for MY TRUST.


The item(s) described in Section D of the aforementioned Form 4473 is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of MY TRUST.


The name and address of the Trust is as follows:

MY TRUST
9843298 Foo Pl
Colorado Springs, CO 00000-0000


I execute this statement under penalties of perjury.




Dated: ___________________________



__________________________________________________ _____________________
John Doe, Trustee
MY TRUST

[O2HeN2]

Oh, for the record, the pertinent section in the CRS is 18-12-112 (1)(a)(II)(b):

(b) As used in this section, unless the context requires otherwise, "transferee" means a person who desires to receive or acquire a firearm from a transferor. If a transferee is not a natural person, then each natural person who is authorized by the transferee to possess the firearm after the transfer shall undergo a background check, as described in paragraph (a) of this subsection (1), before taking possession of the firearm.

Italics mine.

A trust is "not a natural person".

O2

Ps. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Great-Kazoo]

Oh, for the record, the pertinent section in the CRS is 18-12-112 (1)(a)(II)(b):

(b) As used in this section, unless the context requires otherwise, "transferee" means a person who desires to receive or acquire a firearm from a transferor. If a transferee is not a natural person, then each natural person who is authorized by the transferee to possess the firearm after the transfer shall undergo a background check, as described in paragraph (a) of this subsection (1), before taking possession of the firearm.

Italics mine.

A trust is "not a natural person".

O2

Ps. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Not only that, Trust is something lost on a good portion of America.


And thanks for the cookie cutter doc.

[Robb]

Well, this is an education.
Talked with Rodney (NFA Trust Guy) and he confirms my screw up, along with you guys.
I never even gave the purchase a thought. Yes, the Trust is myself and family.
Live and learn, it's a mistake I won't make again.

[Great-Kazoo]

Well, this is an education.
Talked with Rodney (NFA Trust Guy) and he confirms my screw up, along with you guys.
I never even gave the purchase a thought. Yes, the Trust is myself and family.
Live and learn, it's a mistake I won't make again.

What's $20 - 30 in the NFA game ? You did fill your Form out correctly, yes?

[Robb]

You did fill your Form out correctly, yes?

No, if I'm understanding you correctly, I did not. I totally forgot all about transferring it to my Trust. I went through the motions and said YES to being the actual buyer. So that's my issue. I now need to sell the gun from myself as an individual (as I understand it) to myself as Trustee. And then to add to the confusing mess my kid needs a BGC as he's a co-trustee AND we need to fill out the acquisition statements.

Being a first timer at this, could this be any more of a F'ed up, convoluted mess?

[kidicarus13]

You did fill your Form out correctly, yes?

No, if I'm understand you correctly, I did not. I totally forgot all about transferring it to my Trust. I went through the motions and said YES to being the actual buyer. So that's my issue. I now need to sell the gun from myself as an individual (as I understand it) to myself as Trustee. And then to add to the confusing mess my kid needs a BGC as he's a co-trustee AND we need to fill out the acquisition statements.

Being a first timer at this, could this be any more of a F'ed up, convoluted mess?
I think he meant ATF form to apply for your SBR stamp.

What did you expect, it's fed.gov- pay your fees and get in line. Your second one will go a lot smoother.

[Robb]

[QUOTE=kidicarus13;1939648]I think he meant ATF form to apply for your SBR stamp.

Oh yeah... I knew that...
Actually I was pursuing that when I realized I F'ed up my transfer and put the stamp on hold. One step at a time.

[Great-Kazoo]

[QUOTE=kidicarus13;1939648]I think he meant ATF form to apply for your SBR stamp.

Oh yeah... I knew that...
Actually I was pursuing that when I realized I F'ed up my transfer and put the stamp on hold. One step at a time.

No need to put the efile on hold. You can transfer from individual to trust while waiting for ATF approval. The trust applied to make a NFA item, nothing more. You need to step back and relax.

It sounds more confusing then it really is.

[Robb]

"You need to step back and relax.
It sounds more confusing then it really is."

Story of my life buddy.
Just kind of a confusing learning curve first time around.

Hey, I appreciate everybody's help here assisting me down this bumpy road the first time.

[Great-Kazoo]

"You need to step back and relax.
It sounds more confusing then it really is."

Story of my buddy.
Just kind of a confusing learning curve first time around.

Hey, I appreciate everybod'ys help here assisting me down this bumpy road the first time.

If you feel the need for info / help that one may feel uncomfortable posting on line. PM one of us, but not me..................... My receptionist has been a real bitch about my messages , lately.

[SouthPaw]

Sooooooo how does this apply to firearms owned prior to the new laws? Same deal?

[kidicarus13]

If your trust was formed prior to the background law I'm sure the firearm in question was transfered prior to the law.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[O2HeN2]

Yhea, before the law you'd update your schedule A (or whatever). Done.

If you did your Form 1 correctly (naming the trust, etc.) you can let that keep moving forward. Just sometime in the next couple months transfer the firearm into the trust.

O2

[aryntha]

Ugh. Found this thread and realized I got caught in the same mess. This is my first time too.

I have two Form 1s in, (lowers, that were owned by me) and one suppressor in process from SilencerShop.

So i'm guessing what will happen is:

For the two Form 1 Lowers, I'll have to round up my two co-trustees (my brother and my wife) and march 'em down to a local FFL who agrees to do this, and:
-- transfer both lowers from me to the FFL (2x$25)
-- Transfer both lowers from the FFL to the Trust (2x$25)
-- and get each of us to sign a statement,
-- and all three of us to go through a BGC (3x$7);

When my suppressor arrives at the LGS/SOT,
-- Go there with my co-trustees (brother and wife)
-- Upon the LGS/SOT doing the suppressor transfer to the trust (whatever their transfer fee is)...
-- All of us fill out said declarations for the 4473,
-- all 3 of us go through a BGC (3x$7) ...

... is that the correct procedure? In other words, I do have to take the whole family down to the gun shop for this... (presuming that I can find a FFL that'll put up with this sort of thing.)

[O2HeN2]

Not exactly, but close. For the lowers you'll do a private sale from you to the trust, no need for them to be transferred to the FFL first. Plus, multiple firearms can be transferred on a single 4473 (Section D) so hopefully the FFL won't charge you per 4473 AND per firearm. Why? Because you need a 4473 (and acquisition statement) for each person in the trust. So if it's $25 per 4473 it'll be either 3x$25 or 6x$25 if the FFL wants to stick it to you and charge you per lower too.

Note: If the lowers have been configured as pistols there IS additional paperwork because it becomes a multiple handgun purchase (form 3310.4).

As an aside, this is why I suggest the order of: Get receivers, put them in the trust, configure them as pistols for testing, then engrave and submit form 1s.

My FFL said there was additional paperwork and/or problems if the transaction wasn't done immediately, so I did what you're describing, round everyone up and head to the FFL en mass.

So this is a more accurate list of steps:

>>For the two Form 1 Lowers, I'll have to round up my two co-trustees (my brother and my wife) and march 'em down to a local FFL who agrees to do this, and:
-- All three of you fill out 4473s, listing both receivers in section D (3x$25 - hopefully)
-- All three of you fill out acquisition statements
-- All three of you go through a BGC (3x$7)*
That process WILL transfer both lowers from you to the trust (don't think of the transfer as a step, the steps above accomplish the transfer)

>>When my suppressor arrives at the LGS/SOT,
-- All three of you fill out 4473s (fees?)
-- All three of you fill out acquisition statements.
-- All three of you go through a BGC (3x$7)*

Again, the above steps will legally "transfer the suppressor to the trust" (and the form 4 allows the trust to possess the suppressor).

Since you have a trust, I would verify these steps with your attorney. I'm not one, I just have experience going through the process. Please share any corrections your attorney may have to help the next person.

...and you don't have to tell me that this is all complete and utter bull$#!+.

O2

* I Like to keep a copy of the BGC for each person for my records, just in case. Ask your FFL to print out out a copy.

[aryntha]

Ok, well -- look, I really appreciate this (and I think a lot of other folks here do too.) I know you're not a lawyer but -- man is this a convoluted mess, and it's good to at least get info from folks who have been through it before.

Next time around I'll definitely probably have an easier time at the order of operations, but I like a lot of folks wanted to get all this done before 41P, so yeah, there was some haste involved.

.... Of course nevermind that both my wife and brother have concealed permits and have done 4473s in the last week and they and the state all know that they're not prohibited persons -- we're stoppin' crime here!

I guess the next big question is finding a FFL that'll do private transfers. That doesn't seem very easy to do. If anyone knows someone who would take part in this dance in the Lakewood/Littleton/Conifer area...

(I am friendly with one LGS, and hopefully he'll hold his nose and do me a solid if I pay him full price on all of the potential transfers.)


Yeesh.

[SAnd]

Ark Tactical is an Industry Partner here. They are familiar with NFA stuff and NFA transfers. They are on the north east corner Highway 285 and Kipling. He gives a discount on transfers to members of this board.

I've always been very happy with the everything I have done there including several NFA Trust transfers..

[aryntha]

Ark Tactical is an Industry Partner here. They are familiar with NFA stuff and NFA transfers. They are on the north east corner Highway 285 and Kipling. He gives a discount on transfers to members of this board.

I've always been very happy with the everything I have done there including several NFA Trust transfers..

Excellent. Thanks, just in the right location, too. I'll give them a call this week.
Really ending up thankful that I found this thread.

[Great-Kazoo]

Ok, well -- look, I really appreciate this (and I think a lot of other folks here do too.) I know you're not a lawyer but -- man is this a convoluted mess, and it's good to at least get info from folks who have been through it before.

Next time around I'll definitely probably have an easier time at the order of operations, but I like a lot of folks wanted to get all this done before 41P, so yeah, there was some haste involved.

.... Of course nevermind that both my wife and brother have concealed permits and have done 4473s in the last week and they and the state all know that they're not prohibited persons -- we're stoppin' crime here!

I guess the next big question is finding a FFL that'll do private transfers. That doesn't seem very easy to do. If anyone knows someone who would take part in this dance in the Lakewood/Littleton/Conifer area...

(I am friendly with one LGS, and hopefully he'll hold his nose and do me a solid if I pay him full price on all of the potential transfers.)


Yeesh.

Use the search function to find the numerous threads regarding who does transfers. Don't forget the Industry Partners section,too