View Full Version : Vertical grip on a pistol?
Saw this on armslist. Dude says it legal with the grip since it's over 26in long. Am I wrong to think this guy is wrong. It's still considered a pistol.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/0eeafa5a0c30ea936dc04fbbe79abece.jpg
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Zundfolge
12-28-2015, 16:34
I believe this guy is wrong. Overall length doesn't matter, its still a "pistol" and when you put a vertical fore grip on a "pistol" you make an "AOW".
Great-Kazoo
12-28-2015, 16:35
I believe this guy is wrong. Overall length doesn't matter, its still a "pistol" and when you put a vertical fore grip on a "pistol" you make an "AOW".
CORRECT. Pistol is a pistol. Yank the VFG off, install a magpul AFG and you're GTG
The other area he's full of shit on is this
Also this is 100% legal because with the sbr brace the gun is over 26ins allowing the vertical grip
Hey DUDE. you're pimping a pistol with illegal foregrip AND....................... a shit load of 16+ round magazines.
That ad screams of dumbfuk seller, LE Sting OR another ETFGS scam. Just to highlight HOW EASY IT IS TO BUY GUNS ON LINE.
Lists it as an "SBR" . . . illegal VFG on a pistol . . . "high capacity" magazines that would be illegal to transfer . . . that's a hot mess. That cannot be real. Or the dude is an idiot. Or LEO looking to bust someone dumb enough to make an offer.
But... If you bought it the only rule break would be the mags, unless you put the grip on.
Can you have a vertical foregrip mounted horizontally? Just curious.
kidicarus13
12-28-2015, 18:53
Can you have a vertical foregrip mounted horizontally? Just curious.
Yes...
63047
electronman1729
12-28-2015, 19:36
What if you put that on the right side of the rail?
What if you put that on the right side of the rail?
That's what I mean. Like a machine gun.
If your pistol is over 26 inches in length and you attach a VFG, you did not make an AOW, you made a 'firearm'. This is why products like this don't need stamps: http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26_S.html . Of course the brace isn't part of the overall length on an AK. You measure from the back of the receiver to the end of the barrel so his draco would become an AOW (requiring a stamp) if the VFG was attached. I suspect he knows that since the pics don't show the grip actually attached. Something stinks about this ad.
And he is playing the "kit" game with the mags and drums
If your pistol is over 26 inches in length and you attach a VFG, you did not make an AOW, you made a 'firearm'. This is why products like this don't need stamps: http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26_S.html . Of course the brace isn't part of the overall length on an AK. You measure from the back of the receiver to the end of the barrel so his draco would become an AOW (requiring a stamp) if the VFG was attached. I suspect he knows that since the pics don't show the grip actually attached. Something stinks about this ad.
Somewhere there is a thread where I found a group selling a short barreled shotgun with a sig brace and vfg, same thing there it had been classified as "firearm" and not NFA due to overall length... Stuff like this shows why the NFA is stupid, and the ATF's letters are nonsense and contradict themselves constantly.
Great-Kazoo
12-28-2015, 21:43
Somewhere there is a thread where I found a group selling a short barreled shotgun with a sig brace and vfg, same thing there it had been classified as "firearm" and not NFA due to overall length... Stuff like this shows why the NFA is stupid, and the ATF's letters are nonsense and contradict themselves constantly.
Those (IIRC) are from stripped receivers the shotgun was built off. They didn't come from the factory as Pistol, long gun, or shot gun. So the mfg / vendor was able to build in that config. Where as the Draco came out as a pistol.
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88
That's what I mean. Like a machine gun.
Machine guns have horizontal vertical grips?
I guess this isn't as horizontal as I pictured in my head.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/PEO_M249_Para_ACOG.jpg
And while this is what I was thinking, not exactly a true grip, and not exactly common.
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/sterling-sub-machine-gun-l2a3-mk4-vintage-british.jpg
I still liked the thought process there, Irving. Legitimate question for sure as to the legality of mounting a vertical grip in a non-vertical position.
I guess this isn't as horizontal as I pictured in my head.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/PEO_M249_Para_ACOG.jpg
And while this is what I was thinking, not exactly a true grip, and not exactly common.
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/sterling-sub-machine-gun-l2a3-mk4-vintage-british.jpg
Using a magazine grip on a sterling is what causes jams. They spent alot of time training the soldiers not to grab it. Theoretically it makes for faster reloads. But it mostly turned into people grabbing the mag and jamming it up. There was also the jumping jack adaptation where they would tie two of them facing opposite directions to each other and chuck it in a room hard. Causing both guns to mag dump.
Now that sounds like a party!
About the only nice feature of having the magazine on the side is it makes it easier to keep yourself low to the ground when engaging the enemy, thus making yourself a smaller target.
Here we go, forgot I once bought a pistol grip from GunSmoke (which broke trying to get it on the rifle). Now I don't have to worry about my rifle rolling under the table every time I drop it, just like my flashlight.\
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Hly-1CY-byChr1MHlSC6-Bc8K7_3b6wWu6aHeOefUCDIcjNimA30DudwY3otfEqHLAQNPXw 4xzeZo5AfHMlye6ic5aTgLJNaxepcjsInSQfXuyQcQ_pwWxnHh J-SmrQrjdznqX8286BXbsXId51ZRrHrTTNDOFf6ZRwb9zqxRhgcZ eOje4jt5isiw7JlBrWY6siyMkREQBD_VOiixydZE451ShxFssC GUnwjmKMgrxjh1XddNuzi64Fd0epuAv5Gw3m6nt59Jna-J29SPaAiFDuSE7tySqJrZZL_LVtCCVP_oHfg44RMkexF-mMjINddIgN8lUhHPiNvhgqH3zfOWqKXSLDLfe2GarG0Ph8eJEf XlWFUqDOVV7UZ4ECACQk3-whsinLFmQUkvepsdZunDtqQIxAkFjxYji_sraoACOSoHRE1EVF uo0pxIvYNKme399hNOpuRqZcblJvZaSFa78Bfbcll-sYk-fVM_opZT9mVq75NXF_Y59x71b21_X0CLnYLzfjWn5oqcwZd0gZ lGMlnSuNjQNs5CeQAaiGLprbtESfx1c2T43dO5IpwE8yY3MiUG w=w1698-h955-no
And would you look at that recoil management? Just look at it! Sure makes for a comfortable low ready carry as well!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yOl_6xZT0MHG6TEJcSx5_rbVo1GzU0Nhlf9UcgwZP5XbneJC6v ZqQtbAAzK59d2r0TMgfSUfROMV023NajR08RdFWh49L2qoXrwb--E65fzk2Z39vPDoIGLhhEC10AedZRnKMKsBOBKglzbjiyakETlV RRx4U6gQIc7Y0EJLVEjqSXhavm5ctL1sv3iyelL0TFTWXGWd0o llw7Ee-pHqjpM8k6FNxox7d-qury--8fOdmyfNTcf331Ybiz1fLsuu3d0g9v_MdOhG_3f3i5Y6Q78Rfl AR5Y-lHrwkK_0ZOt3_MCxTArVVoTU_Leywodwabj__fTX0vv0Pu_giF M5oUZLKvY_qFpM7TF5CKmMAimEf7g_c7QLpr2xaqZJOUeYzbfd RUZwbKerhaLnmjM50EUAxNRH7RhHdj_iubw4iqk_nvJqUWgjzO s2dMzLkkI2_OC546DCfVcKb2KgJRyAt_IQao_oZ0sgn2G5IrFs CICkCjY9ZAwgqWY21AXNSEtbtnijMonbTj4S-swHhkamxPCdkOluYhrz8g9IZFwiqUvu9RPS7bJdr1HFnOjY8Vn wtgVg7XA=w1698-h955-no
ChunkyMonkey
01-03-2016, 01:02
Saw this on armslist. Dude says it legal with the grip since it's over 26in long. Am I wrong to think this guy is wrong. It's still considered a pistol.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/0eeafa5a0c30ea936dc04fbbe79abece.jpg
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It's legal, but his description of how he defines the oal is questionable at best. We took few trade ins of 11.5" ar pistols with braces and very grip (local LE). Oal is over 26", checked it with ATF, all good.
Look up Franklin armory, kahr international ord pistol etc for more info.
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