View Full Version : Wind energy
DD977GM2
08-21-2009, 00:24
I work in the utilities industy. I was on a service call near Julesburg today and the local sub-station operator was bullshitting with us and the subject of wind energy came up. He basically said it was a long way from being viable and economically sound. Said it takes $0.85 to produce 1 Kilowatt (KW) of power with the current wind turbine technology.
With a coal plant it takes just $0.03 to produce 1 KW of power. Then he said that there needs to be another power source such as a coal plant to help regulate the fluctuation of voltage and current for the entire time the turbines are producing power or when the wind is not blowing, to allow a supple to the power grid. CO has a plan or idea that would have the entire eastern planes filled with turbines. The idea is that somewhere will always be blowing. This gives the entire grid a 1-3 ratio. Meaning out of 100KW of power for a potential output, only 30-33 KW would actually be made.
Also the turbines will never pay for themselves. Their life expectancy is 10 years (i know some of you will say that the expectancy can be surpassed... I know this and so did the operator) and it takes 12-13 years of service to pay for itself. So basically it is like the VCR......when it can be used affordably, then people will actually buy into it and use it.
Just thought I would share this new tid bit of info that the gov doesnt want us to know about.
The hole green movement shit is a fraud. Cap and Trade, Global warming and all that crap. Yes there are things we can do to stop pollution and conserve space in the land fills.
It's just funny every time someone tries to pass some bullshit bill they have something to do with the money laundering scam behind it.
Cap and Trade = Al fucking Gore. Al Gore started Generation Investment Management, they sale carbon credits. Go figure.
You know, these green idiots (hmmm, does that make them Martians...?), won't put an oil rig on a little tiny postage stamp piece of land but they are willing to use up tens of thousands of acres to collect wind power. These guys are nucking futs!
if wind energy was an efficient and profitable way to make power it would have been fully developed 40 years ago.
it's an eco pipe dream.
gnihcraes
08-21-2009, 23:30
could be, but the wind energy is keeping my family alive at the moment, wife is working directly with Vestas out of Denmark, they are building the "Blades" plant in Windsor, the Towers Plant will be online soon in Pueblo, and the Necell (sp) (generator housing) plant will be built sometime in the future at Brighton... Seems to be a pretty good market in other countries for wind turbines, surpassing 10 years on their usage... Colorado has pumped a bunch of monies and tax discounts to bring Vestas and a lot of jobs to this area, so I hope it all works out... seems viable to me that it produces from the numbers I hear each day from my sources... my 2 cents....
I'd personally like to see wind turbines on top of sky scrapers in the city. Then you wouldn't have to invest so much in a tower because the building is already tall enough. It'd probably be a bit distracting to have a huge blade pass by your windows every few (insert period of time here) though.
I still wonder how they'd hold up in winds of 300+ mph. (That would be a tornado for you non weather nerds [Tooth])
The engineering side of wind power is completely viable, the economic side has analysis problems because subsidies and CO2-hysteria ruin the data.
Capital costs (equipment and construction) are distorted by grants and tax incentives, operating costs depend on the wind. An agenda-free comparison between the 20-year present worth of a new coal/gas/nuke plant compared to wind/solar/other is going to be tough to find.
Don't forget that wind turbines make for a good photo-op, and fit dovetail in with what they pretend is science education these days.
What we need are more nuke plants, not a bunch of feel-good bullshit.
gnihcraes
08-22-2009, 08:30
after seeing the methods and equipment used to produce the current wind turbine towers, they should stand up to a pretty nasty wind, how much though I'm not sure... we'll find out someday!
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6250/failownedcleanenergyfai.jpg
DD977GM2
08-22-2009, 11:59
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6250/failownedcleanenergyfai.jpg
[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3]
Is wind energy a viable solution for home use though? Maybe coupled with solar? I'd LOVE to live in the country and be "off the grid". Not likely to happen though.
To go back to Paintball Shooters original post-
I used to work at a coal fired electric plant. The dispatchers that control the electric grid tolds us the the wind power was only good for about eight percent of the time. When they were generating a spinning reserve had to be maintained to back it up if the wind died. Quite often it would die suddenly leaving a equally sudden need for generation to make up the loss. Sometimes the wind generation would come on then minutes latter drop off. That realy stresses the whole system.
Another aspect of wind is it is a large area effect. If the wind increases or drops off it will influence a bank of wind generators. You won't lose or gain one or two, you'll lose twenty or thirty if not all of them in that quarter of the state. The whole country would need to be covered with these things for it to be viable.
It's good to get new "green" manufacturing jobs in the state. But, to use a liberal mantra, who is going to pay for them? All the green jobs were attracted here by big tax breaks. Subsidies in lib' speak. How are we going to make up the lost tax revenue from them not paying taxes? As Paper Hunter said this also applies to the tax breaks the operational wind generators are getting too. Sorry- I'm being sarcastic in that last bit.
I too am a believer in nukes. We should have had fusion plants going by now. Cheap energy is one of the main factors in the high standard of living we enjoy today. The environmentalist's want to take it away from us.
Have A Good Day
Steve A
Sorry about the font size- I don't know how I did that.
Steve A
gnihcraes
08-22-2009, 21:31
... but the new wind technology with the large 105 meter blades take such a small breeze to get them turning... it's not an all around solution, but neither is any of the other options...
small solar is available for home use, but not cheap - $15k for a home system, if you're in a "windy" area...
paulmartin483
04-23-2010, 23:49
I know that the processing done for Wind energy is too expensive and it needs hundreds of petroleum originated lube oil to operate each day, and the gearbox used for these things is immense and expensive.But the wind energy is non conventional one thats attract me lot to use wind energy for many of my works and projects.
theGinsue
04-24-2010, 00:23
Is wind energy a viable solution for home use though? Maybe coupled with solar? I'd LOVE to live in the country and be "off the grid". Not likely to happen though.
Oh good heavens, I'm a ventriliquist and rondog is my puppet....those are my exact words... I use them several times a week.
Not_A_Llama
04-24-2010, 00:25
I work in the utilities industy. I was on a service call near Julesburg today and the local sub-station operator was bullshitting with us and the subject of wind energy came up. He basically said it was a long way from being viable and economically sound. Said it takes $0.85 to produce 1 Kilowatt (KW) of power with the current wind turbine technology.
With a coal plant it takes just $0.03 to produce 1 KW of power. Then he said that there needs to be another power source such as a coal plant to help regulate the fluctuation of voltage and current for the entire time the turbines are producing power or when the wind is not blowing, to allow a supple to the power grid. CO has a plan or idea that would have the entire eastern planes filled with turbines. The idea is that somewhere will always be blowing. This gives the entire grid a 1-3 ratio. Meaning out of 100KW of power for a potential output, only 30-33 KW would actually be made.
Also the turbines will never pay for themselves. Their life expectancy is 10 years (i know some of you will say that the expectancy can be surpassed... I know this and so did the operator) and it takes 12-13 years of service to pay for itself. So basically it is like the VCR......when it can be used affordably, then people will actually buy into it and use it.
Just thought I would share this new tid bit of info that the gov doesnt want us to know about.
I'm guessing when you say "kilowatt", you're meaning "kilowatt-hour". I'll buy $30/MWh coal all day. There's no way on earth that a megawatt-hour of wind turbine energy runs $850. I even have trouble believing 8.5 cents/kWh ($85/MWH). IIRC, there's a ~2 cent/kWh tax credit available from the federal government that goes a long way towards making it tenable.
While wind is unreliable (this can be financially and operationally mitigated) the bigger issue is that it doesn't correspond well with load throughout the day. Load peaks around noontime, which is a characteristic that could be much better exploited with solar technology. The sun, after all, is largely responsible for the shape of the demand curve.
I think our best bet in the future would be to go solar as far as we can (tech needs improving), then nuclear with pebble bed, thorium, or alternate isotope fuels for baseload. Maybe peaker units could run natural gas like they currently do. Wind has a place somewhere in the equation, but I can't see it being significant. Too much NIMBYism and bird-chopping go on even before you bother talking about fundamental economics.
For those unfamiliar with the power industry, a quick primer: You basically can't store electric energy. Power demand throughout the day looks vaguely like a normal distribution, with a peak around noon or so. Power costs more during this peak time, and less on off-peak periods. Generally, coal/nuclear/hydro are your cheapest sources of power, and are used for base generation, but generally take a while to respond to changes in power demand. So on top of the cheap base generation, more expensive and more responsive "peaker" units, typically natural gas powered, are used. Managing the dynamics of the "gen stack" is the lion's share of what goes on in power trading.
The problem lies not in generation efficiency, but in transmission losses. Some 50% of the electricity generated in power plants never makes it to the end user. The current "hub and spoke" grid is horribly inefficient, and hugely vulnerable to failures due to cascade failures. What really needs to happen is decentralizing the generation of power, with a mesh network model for the new grid. This would increase power distribution efficiency by as much as 70% according to some estimates, as well as reduce the possibility of extensive cascade failures. Maybe something like neighborhood Bloom Boxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_Energy_Server) powering 10-20 homes, networked with adjacent cells would be a good model.
You know, these green idiots (hmmm, does that make them Martians...?), won't put an oil rig on a little tiny postage stamp piece of land but they are willing to use up tens of thousands of acres to collect wind power. These guys are nucking futs!
did you know PETA fights hard against wind turbines?
apparently it kills low level birds in flight when they are hit by the semitruck sized blades[ROFL1]
if the birds are that stupid, they deserve to die.
as for wind energy, put some of those fuckers out by my house cause it is howlin right now!
i like the idea of solar and wind combined. I don't see how the wind energy is over 20 times more expensive. the highest costs are the initial build and leasing of the land. maintenance is a factor as well but it can't be that much more than a coal plant along with the trains that have to carry it and the diesel fuel burned.
solar is being used heavily out at DIA. hell, just look at a lot of mountain homes, they have solar panels as well as propane backup. some don't even have power running to their house from an outside means, they make it work.
I know that isn't realistic in a more urban setting (where the greenies mostly live...like in downtown) but it is a small step in the right direction.
the cost of solar technology is coming down, improving and seeing more widespread use. it will just take time to get things down to a reasonable level.
then we will find monstrous[ROFL1] coal and oil reserves and wonder what the fuck we were thinking!
GreenScoutII
04-24-2010, 09:20
I think wind turbines and solar are part of the solution to the problem of achieving energy independence. I also believe that domestic drilling and, in particular, nuclear energy, are also part of the solution.
I live out in the country and I would love to be "off the grid" as others here have mentioned. I'm looking at a smaller wind turbine for my own use. The biggest problem I see with them as they exist now is that it will take a very, very long time for the turbine to pay for it's self...
Solar I'm not entirely sold on. At least not at the current level of development of this technology. I do think it will be a significant contributor to our power grid in the future though.
Not_A_Llama
04-24-2010, 09:37
The problem lies not in generation efficiency, but in transmission losses. Some 50% of the electricity generated in power plants never makes it to the end user.
No way 50% losses - it averages about 7%. My background's in EE, and it shits me that we can even get it that low. Working in power trading now, we'd be dead at 50%.
Mesh power generation is nice for something that needs combat reliability, but as it is, we're not even willing to invest in existing infrastructure. You need a *lot* of infrastructure to realize reliability improvements, and someone has to pay. As-is, the grid is capable of realizing the microgeneration contributions. You have solar and wind home "hobbyists" that get exuberant about seeing their power meter run backwards. Aside from the panels or turbines, there's significant cost involved - a phase synchronizer for whatever you generate costs thousands of dollars. I don't believe the American public is supportive of the taxes and cost increases needed to realize this situation, especially as it becomes widespread. For better or worse, organic growth and incremental improvement are the only way to alter the grid.
Y'know, it's kinda sad that when you start looking at proposals for energy infrastructure overhaul in this country at an operational level, a lot of them seem to be predicated on the establishment of socialist utopia.
gnihcraes
04-24-2010, 10:30
Vestas from Denmark has built multiple manufacturing sites here along the front range in the last couple of years. The towers plant in Pueblo is almost complete and operational. One of the largest turbines they make is being built on site just off I-25 down there. It's cost for this one turbine is 6 Million.
Here is a very recent picture of the turbine going up... (49 meter blades)
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=653&g2_serialNumber=1
Vestas from Denmark has built multiple manufacturing sites here along the front range in the last couple of years. The towers plant in Pueblo is almost complete and operational. One of the largest turbines they make is being built on site just off I-25 down there. It's cost for this one turbine is 6 Million.
I worked on thier manufacting plant.... BIG PLACE...
The problem lies not in generation efficiency, but in transmission losses. Some 50% of the electricity generated in power plants never makes it to the end user.
Nope, NEC states that we have to be within +/- 3-5% on our end. When I hook up gear, for the most part I can test it out to be 477 to 484 volts for a "480" volt system So for the most part I can attest that it isn't a 50% loss..
Besides High enough voltage over a big enough wire, voltage drop won't be that much..
Vestas from Denmark has built multiple manufacturing sites here along the front range in the last couple of years. The towers plant in Pueblo is almost complete and operational. One of the largest turbines they make is being built on site just off I-25 down there. It's cost for this one turbine is 6 Million.
Here is a very recent picture of the turbine going up... (49 meter blades)
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=653&g2_serialNumber=1
I am sure several people have seen them on the highway, but each blade is about as long as a semi truck!
I got close to one up near the CO/NE border. I bet they are about 180ft. tall or better!
[quote=sniper7;197877]i like the idea of solar and wind
hell, just look at a lot of mountain homes, they have solar panels as well as propane backup. some don't even have power running to their house from an outside means, they make it work.
I'm in one of those mountain homes, power our home with wind and solar. We are 2 1/2 miles from a utility line. We make no claims to be "greenies", we like the Independence. No utility bill, one less monopoly to fuck with us.
I have to admit I kind of enjoy it when you grid folks (not co-ar15 members of course) lose power from a storm, we always power, na na na na na!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o
Here's a cool wind turbine crash video. Bottom line no one was hurt, no oil spilled, no haz mat stuff. Just pick up the pieces. Put up another one. No big deal.
gnihcraes
04-24-2010, 20:53
since you wanted a picture for reference... there is a blade on the truck. :)
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=656&g2_serialNumber=1
[quote=sniper7;197877]i like the idea of solar and wind
hell, just look at a lot of mountain homes, they have solar panels as well as propane backup. some don't even have power running to their house from an outside means, they make it work.
I'm in one of those mountain homes, power our home with wind and solar. We are 2 1/2 miles from a utility line. We make no claims to be "greenies", we like the Independence. No utility bill, one less monopoly to fuck with us.
I have to admit I kind of enjoy it when you grid folks (not co-ar15 members of course) lose power from a storm, we always power, na na na na na!
I hope to have something like that one day. plenty of land, a well, solar and wind power (maybe even water if it is near a stream/river) and propane as well!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o
Here's a cool wind turbine crash video. Bottom line no one was hurt, no oil spilled, no haz mat stuff. Just pick up the pieces. Put up another one. No big deal.
I've seen that before! amazing how fast it broke up
since you wanted a picture for reference... there is a blade on the truck. :)
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=656&g2_serialNumber=1
that is awesome!
and to think the ones siemens make are all one piece (at least thats what they said on discovery)
since you wanted a picture for reference... there is a blade on the truck. :)
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=656&g2_serialNumber=1
I saw one in Cheyenne on a run to N.D. They are a lot bigger than you think, I was impressed.
ChunkyMonkey
04-24-2010, 21:47
Google 'home made VAWT' for those who want a 'off grid' setup.
Google 'home made VAWT' for those who want a 'off grid' setup.
MB888, don't mean to poo on your post, but Vertical Axis Winturbines ,VAWT's, are a joke. One of the biggest scams in the industry. What really pisses me off, is they are always claimed to be "new" technology and have wild production claims that defy physics. They have been around and tried since the 20's. The effiency of the VAWT can not compete with a horizontal axis turbine. I have a pdf of real world productions numbers of a several current production VAWT's. The numbers are horrible. I can't figure out how to link a pdf. If you would like to read it, PM me your e-mail and I'll send it to you.
Anyone interested in a home brew wind turbine check out www.otherpower.com, they are outside of Ft. Collins. They sell a few how to books/plans. I built a 10ft diameter machine about 8yrs ago, it is still up and running at my brothers in Iowa. I built it from a plan that Hugh Piggot put together.
ChunkyMonkey
04-24-2010, 22:53
VAWT would be the only option for me as far as being in the urban area. Nothing in the kw range from what I understand, but I couldnt see a HAWT standing in peeps backyard. [Beer]
gnihcraes
04-24-2010, 23:59
that is awesome!
and to think the ones siemens make are all one piece (at least thats what they said on discovery)
not sure, I'll check, but I thought the Vestas blades are all one piece too, top secret methods and such...
HBARleatherneck
04-25-2010, 08:01
I think that an offgrid system will work for people who are willing to try. We have friends with solar only homes. Out here at the Pawnee, you cant use wind turbines (unless you can afford 100+ towers, because we have ground level micro bursts and dangerous eradic winds sometimes)
I think you have to look at you electrical comsumption.
We have a 2432sqft house, we average $41.00 a month electric bill. We heat our house soley with wood. We have a soapstone stove, and have not used anyother heat source for 3 years. When, we decide we can afford it, I believe that we will make it easily on solar. A huge part of our electric bill, is a charge that is put on there, because we live so far out. I think our part of the bill is $16.00 and the charge is $25.00 .
What I am saying, is if you run your ac all day, leave every light and appliance running while you are not home, then maybe it wont work for you.
They have the little wind generators now for under $500 that can attach to your roof. I have no idea, if it actually works well. But, for the cost, yu could try it.
I think that an offgrid Out here at the Pawnee, you cant use wind turbines (unless you can afford 100+ towers, because we have ground level micro bursts and dangerous eradic winds sometimes)
Got to respectfully disagree. With a properly designed tower and the right turbine, no problem. My turbine/tower has gone through many a gusty Chinook winds. We are at 10,000ft, exposed to the west. Last Jan peak gust of 102, previous Jan gust of 112. My neighbor has had a 80ft tower up for 23yrs, he's recorded 126. The turbine I'm using is rated at 155 at sea level. Documented survival of 138 at sea level. A 138 wind up here would have roughly 30% less force due to the air density at altitude. A friend and I did some maintenance on a machine in your backyard a couple years ago. It's a Bergey 1500 on a 70ft tower, I believe it has been up for 12-15 yrs.
We have a 2432sqft house, we average $41.00 a month electric bill. We heat our house soley with wood. We have a soapstone stove, and have not used anyother heat source for 3 years. When, we decide we can afford it, I believe that we will make it easily on solar. A huge part of our electric bill, is a charge that is put on there, because we live so far out. I think our part of the bill is $16.00 and the charge is $25.00 .
$25 usage will be easy to make with solar. You are using 250KW hrs a month? A 2500 watt system would cover your needs.
What I am saying, is if you run your ac all day, leave every light and appliance running while you are not home, then maybe it wont work for you.
That same guy is going to bitch about his bill.
They have the little wind generators now for under $500 that can attach to your roof. I have no idea, if it actually works well. But, for the cost, yu could try it.
Waste of time and money. Mounting a turbine on a roof is a bad idea, lots of turbulence, sound vibration transferred into the house. They are toys at best.
HBARleatherneck
04-25-2010, 10:09
i figured, which I was why I dont own one. I was hoping someone else had experience with home generators under about $10,000.
as far as the generator on a tower. I was basing my information on one of our neighbors. his entire house is solar. he also bought a wind generator. i am not sure which one. but, he said it was something like $7000. and he put up the tower. I believe he said 30 foot. he said he had bad luck with it. and it didnt last. I wanted to go that way. obviously within 30 miles of us we have the towers on hwy 85, and we have a new wind farm at New Raymer or close to it. I thought, it would be the way to go, with the photovoltaeic also. I personally think that none of this technology has been pushed far enough. Maybe because the arab oil producing countries can lobby with more money than the pv, and wind people. but what do I know.
theGinsue
04-25-2010, 10:17
since you wanted a picture for reference... there is a blade on the truck. :)
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=656&g2_serialNumber=1
Absolutely amazing. You can "know" that they are huge, but the pic really puts it into perspective.
gnihcraes
04-26-2010, 20:15
my sources say the turbine is complete down in pueblo... i'll have pics tomorrow probably.
gnihcraes
04-27-2010, 18:09
here ya go... complete and almost ready to catch a breeze... check out the size of this thing compared to vehicles and other items in the photo.
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=659&g2_serialNumber=1
here ya go... complete and almost ready to catch a breeze... check out the size of this thing compared to vehicles and other items in the photo.
http://www.dcandh.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=659&g2_serialNumber=1
truly awesome!
I noticed two 3 blade windmills in Boulder on our way to the Earth Day festival on Sunday. I hadn't noticed them there before. Must be relatively recent.
gnihcraes
04-27-2010, 20:17
I noticed two 3 blade windmills in Boulder on our way to the Earth Day festival on Sunday. I hadn't noticed them there before. Must be relatively recent.
out at along hwy 93 or further into boulder? The big ones on hwy 93 have been there a year or two... or longer.
Maybe. I could see them from 36 going into Boulder. Way out in the distance against the foothills.
gnihcraes
04-27-2010, 20:30
ok, yep those are on hwy 93 at the NREL site - at least that's who I think owns that.
Yep, even shows the front range on their website... http://www.nrel.gov/wind/
edit: I just found a neat video on their site showing the install of those turbines.
http://www.nrel.gov/features/20090821_turbines.html
devidmarky
02-16-2011, 07:42
Wind energy is the kinetic energy associated with the movement of atmospheric air. It has been used for hundreds of years for sailing, grinding grain and irrigation.
HBARleatherneck
02-16-2011, 08:56
are you serious? you must be real smart. we didnt know wind had been around before. and wind is used for sailing? who would have guessed. now go join the rest of the damned, i mean banned.
I'd personally like to see wind turbines on top of sky scrapers in the city. Then you wouldn't have to invest so much in a tower because the building is already tall enough. It'd probably be a bit distracting to have a huge blade pass by your windows every few (insert period of time here) though.
They are starting to put up vertical axis windmills in cities, on buildings, as buildings like that cause updrafts these devices are able to capture it:
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens4741972module34456182photo_1242686474win dmill_vertical.jpg
are you serious? you must be real smart. we didnt know wind had been around before. and wind is used for sailing? who would have guessed. now go join the rest of the damned, i mean banned.
Wind energy is the kinetic energy associated with the movement of atmospheric air. It has been used for hundreds of years for sailing, grinding grain and irrigation.
Was that guy a persistent troll, or did he get banned for just that post?
H.
MB888, don't mean to poo on your post, but Vertical Axis Winturbines ,VAWT's, are a joke. One of the biggest scams in the industry. What really pisses me off, is they are always claimed to be "new" technology and have wild production claims that defy physics. They have been around and tried since the 20's. The effiency of the VAWT can not compete with a horizontal axis turbine. I have a pdf of real world productions numbers of a several current production VAWT's. The numbers are horrible. I can't figure out how to link a pdf. If you would like to read it, PM me your e-mail and I'll send it to you.
Anyone interested in a home brew wind turbine check out www.otherpower.com (http://www.otherpower.com), they are outside of Ft. Collins. They sell a few how to books/plans. I built a 10ft diameter machine about 8yrs ago, it is still up and running at my brothers in Iowa. I built it from a plan that Hugh Piggot put together.
This is interesting. Do vertical axis mills work better than propeller style in situations where the wind direction changes frequently (at sea) or comes from the Z-axis (up a building) or would you be better with a fan in all cases? Disappointing to hear this because I like how vertical axis mills look when they're running.
H.
Was that guy a persistent troll, or did he get banned for just that post?
H.
Naw, it was more for what was in his sigline that I removed.[Love1]
Byte Stryke
02-16-2011, 11:48
the only problem I have about NOT using coal and Nuclear energy is that Not everyone is NOT using them.
I compare it to this.
Just because you arethe only one in the bubble that didn't fart doesn't mean you aren't going to smell shit.
Yes we are trying be be environmentally responsible. I get that. Renewable clean energy etc etc.
Meanwhile China is burning coal faster than they can get it out of the ground.
Thus the fart in a Bubble
the only problem I have about NOT using coal and Nuclear energy is that Not everyone is NOT using them.
I compare it to this.
Just because you arethe only one in the bubble that didn't fart doesn't mean you aren't going to smell shit.
Yes we are trying be be environmentally responsible. I get that. Renewable clean energy etc etc.
Meanwhile China is burning coal faster than they can get it out of the ground.
Thus the fart in a Bubble
China is bringing a new coal plan online every week. (*I didn't search for a citation)
I like the new "smart" nuclear reactor designs, stuff that is walk away safe. Fast Spectrum Gas Cooled Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR) is one of my favorite designs.
H.
Byte Stryke
02-16-2011, 14:31
China is bringing a new coal plan online every week. (*I didn't search for a citation)
I like the new "smart" nuclear reactor designs, stuff that is walk away safe. Fast Spectrum Gas Cooled Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR) is one of my favorite designs.
H.
I have seen TV programs and news reports wherein the pollution in China/Asia is so bad it is eating religious monuments.
same bubble... we are breathing the diluted version of that.
http://archive.cyark.org/top-5-endangered-heritage-sites-acid-rain-blog
I know its just a blog, but it gives you the idea
2ndChildhood
02-16-2011, 15:27
Nuclear has got one really significant problem:
Just like oil, coal, natgas etc, the supply is finite and if everybody tries to ramp up nuke power we will see scarcity.
It may not be in our lifetime, but one of my major shtf scenarios invloves widespread restrictions on the energy we are used to having available 24/7.
I like the idea of windpower for exactly this reason.
btw, I met the otherpower guys, they are both shooters. One of them told me as a kid he would shoot packrats that were living in the walls of his house.
The guy has a nice workshop all off-grid. Welders, drillpresses, lathes etc.
Nuclear has got one really significant problem:
Just like oil, coal, natgas etc, the supply is finite and if everybody tries to ramp up nuke power we will see scarcity.
It may not be in our lifetime, but one of my major shtf scenarios invloves widespread restrictions on the energy we are used to having available 24/7.
If done correctly, the available radioactive material on earth will last for many generations. Here's a quick PDF I found, on page 71-72 it shows two different fuel cycles: http://www.if.uidaho.edu/~gunner/ME443-543/LectureNotes/FuelCycle.pdf
There's a great hour long lecture from a guy who worked for the Navy for many many years about fusion... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606# (This is dated 2006, but excellent)
Basically, we can produce much less waste by seperating out the still radio active bits from the one that have shot their load already. I wish I was better at explaining this stuff, but I'm always learning more. The technology has changed a lot since Three Mile Island, but most peoples views on it hasn't changed.
H.
Nuclear has got one really significant problem:
Just like oil, coal, natgas etc, the supply is finite and if everybody tries to ramp up nuke power we will see scarcity.
It may not be in our lifetime, but one of my major shtf scenarios invloves widespread restrictions on the energy we are used to having available 24/7.
I like the idea of windpower for exactly this reason.
btw, I met the otherpower guys, they are both shooters. One of them told me as a kid he would shoot packrats that were living in the walls of his house.
The guy has a nice workshop all off-grid. Welders, drillpresses, lathes etc.
If they put the revenue and time towards harnessing tidal energy, which is RELIABLE, POWERFUL and YOU CAN SET A CLOCK TO that they did with these stupid wind farms... we could suplement nuclear and be good for a few centuries.
by then maybe we can find a way to harness geothermal and send our trash to the sun
I've driven through some of those wind farms, they are an eye sore.
Byte Stryke
02-16-2011, 16:42
Helium3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3)
that is all
This is interesting. Do vertical axis mills work better than propeller style in situations where the wind direction changes frequently (at sea) or comes from the Z-axis (up a building) or would you be better with a fan in all cases? Disappointing to hear this because I like how vertical axis mills look when they're running.
H.
Vertical axis wind turbine absolutely do not work nearly as well as horizontal axis turbines in any situation.
One of the many problems/physics vertical axis turbines can not get around is how they work, half of the blades are moving in the wrong direction, into the wind, as it rotates. Therefore the machine has to be at least twice as big.
The whole vertical axis turbine thing is a scam. Scumbags taking advantage of the green movement.
Scumbags taking advantage of the green movement.
While the "green movement" takes advantage of everybody else..
[LOL]
Beprepared
02-16-2011, 18:03
If they put the revenue and time towards harnessing tidal energy, which is RELIABLE, POWERFUL and YOU CAN SET A CLOCK TO that they did with these stupid wind farms... we could suplement nuclear and be good for a few centuries.
by then maybe we can find a way to harness geothermal and send our trash to the sun
I've driven through some of those wind farms, they are an eye sore.
BING BING BING a winner in my humble opinion.
Did a few papers on this one. Not without problems, SEDIMENT, slack tides, servicing, eco-nazi's shhh sea life. Needless to say a lot of potential. And the fact that I live in the mountains.
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