View Full Version : Obama going after gun rights again
kidicarus13
01-01-2016, 16:37
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/01/obama-to-use-executive-action-to-tighten-gun-control-with-focus-on-samll-scale-sellers.html
kidicarus13
01-01-2016, 16:41
"The president also reportedly plans to tighten the definition of being “engaged in the business” of selling guns and impose tighter rules for reporting guns that get lost or stolen on their way to a buyer."
wctriumph
01-01-2016, 16:52
[panic] Just when prices were coming back down to nearly reasonable, now this to push them back up again. This really makes it difficult to indulge my gun ocd.
I just read a Washington post article about this. All the rules changes that were discussed are the lies liberals tell each other anyway. 1. Close the gun show loophole. This doesn't exist. 2. Require an ffl of gun dealers. This is already true. 3. Require background checks for Internet sales. Duh.
Obama goes after gun rights (or, any other rights) winter follows fall, water is wet, etc...
Obama getting serious about executive order gun control.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politics/obama-to-announce-new-executive-action-on-guns/index.html
Zundfolge
01-01-2016, 17:59
This new rule really isn't going to impact the vast majority of gun owners, buyers or sellers ... I'm not sure how they're going to be able to tell who is selling "too many" guns and thus must get an FFL. Especially in states without universal BGCs and/or licensure/registration.
Basically all he's going to do is frighten more people into buying guns "while they can" and thus increasing our ranks. This won't have an impact on a single criminal (yeah, I know, that's not the target).
Its kinda funny too ... Clinton did all he could to wipe out the "kitchen table dealers" (guys who sold guns as a hobby business without a storefront) and Obama is turning right around and re-instituting the notion.
Oops. I missed this post. I made a similar thread. Guess mine will soon have the doors kicked in by the repost police.
Obama goes after gun rights (or, any other rights) winter follows fall, water is wet, etc...
Exactly! Haven't we done this yet?
Let them document the magic number of transactions/guns. The ATF has refused to do this for years so they can prosecute in the gray area with "too many" as the number. Obama doesn't realize what he's giving away and the people he'll save from prosecution.
Maybe he can write an EO about the Sig brace, shoe laces, and steel wool pads and we'll get all that cleared up too.
Besides, who is selling guns (as an individual)? I would only sell a gun I really didn't like and then promptly turn around and buy another to replace it. That has happened twice in my lifetime.
If Obama wants to agitate he should really try harder.
Great-Kazoo
01-01-2016, 18:06
This has been floating around since last week. WE know he's going to subvert / do an end run around congress. It's his MO. More meaningless shit from a useless organizer .
Oh yeah.
Repost PO Lice reporting for dupage SIR!
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/153506-Obama-going-after-gun-rights-again
He can't create a new law or change the current, no matter what he thinks of his pen and phone
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Oops. I missed this post. I made a similar thread. Guess mine will soon have the doors kicked in by the repost police.
Better hide your dog...
Better hide your dog...
Last time it was the cat that was pregnant when they left.
sellersm
01-01-2016, 18:52
He can't create a new law or change the current, no matter what he thinks of his pen and phone
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Someone tell that to the enforcers & the DOJ.
Sent from my fat fingers using Tapatalk
Since any President can rescind any previous President's Executive Orders, this should be the catalyst to require candidates to pledge to rescind every single EO signed by our current President.
I haven't chosen a candidate to support yet, however, that will be one of the things I will expect.
This has been floating around since last week. WE know he's going to subvert / do an end run around congress. It's his MO. More meaningless shit from a useless organizer .
[snip]
What's comical is that it's all risk and no reward. It does nothing to stop "gun violence" and it will fail to agitate and rile since nearly everyone will fall short of the magic number.
Yet people will still panic...
68Charger
01-01-2016, 20:40
What's comical is that it's all risk and no reward. It does nothing to stop "gun violence" and it will fail to agitate and rile since nearly everyone will fall short of the magic number.
Yet people will still panic...
Unless his desire is just to illicit a response (in other words, stroke his ego that he's impotent)
Zundfolge
01-01-2016, 22:35
What's comical is that it's all risk and no reward.
It will keep his sycophants in line ... and that is ALL it's meant to do.
HoneyBadger
01-02-2016, 11:29
Locks only keep honest people honest.
Locks only keep honest people honest.
And they present a training opportunity for thieves [Coffee]
It will keep his sycophants in line ... and that is ALL it's meant to do.
You think they won't be immediately demanding the next EO?
He has a pen and a phone. Both are cheap. So why he can't make all of our wildest dreams come true?
kidicarus13
01-04-2016, 17:52
President Obama plans to announce executive actions he will take on gun control on Tuesday, a source told ABC News.
Hmmm, what shall I spend my Christmas money on tonight? Lowers, ammo, $200 stamps?
Zundfolge
01-04-2016, 19:21
President Obama plans to announce executive actions he will take on gun control on Tuesday, a source told ABC News.
Hmmm, what shall I spend my Christmas money on tonight? Lowers, ammo, $200 stamps?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our
buffalobo
01-04-2016, 19:26
Mrs bo told me she heard on news that Obamalamadingdong invited Rap Sheet Rhonda to the discussion.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
cmailliard
01-04-2016, 20:30
Looks like a sneak peak
http://soldiersystems.net/2016/01/05/what-president-obamas-anti-gun-executive-action-will-look-like/ (http://soldiersystems.net/2016/01/05/what-president-obamas-anti-gun-executive-action-will-look-like/)
>>The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is making clear that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks.
Sufficiently vague enough [deliberately, IMHO] to shut down the guns for sale section to anyone that doesn't want to be a test case. :(
Would seem to me to be a first amendment issue. But when has the constitution stopped the man?
O2
I've got no problem with universal background checks. When CO did it a year and a half ago, it was the only bill of the 4 that I was in favor of. Investigating smart gun tech doesn't hurt, as long as they don't force it on people. And then there's the duplicitous nature of a second background check for NFA trusts, but whatever.
That's my opinion of what I've seen so far, we'll have to wait until the full story comes to light tomorrow for the rest.
Sufficiently vague enough [deliberately, IMHO] to shut down the guns for sale section to anyone that doesn't want to be a test case. :(
Would seem to me to be a first amendment issue. But when has the constitution stopped the man?
The forums aren't making money off of the transactions, so it's not a business. That should be enough to kill any attempts to shut them down.
SA Friday
01-04-2016, 21:08
Looks like a sneak peak
http://soldiersystems.net/2016/01/05/what-president-obamas-anti-gun-executive-action-will-look-like/ (http://soldiersystems.net/2016/01/05/what-president-obamas-anti-gun-executive-action-will-look-like/)
The critical downfall of 41P is if it requires CLEO sign off even for trust and LLC NFA transactions. If all they do is run background checks on people in trusts and LLCs when the paperwork is submitted, it might work to all of our favors. We all know that anyone submitting for a stamp is beyond the criminal element. Background check away. In the mean time, this EO will dedicated MORE PERSONNEL to the NFA paperwork process. Stamps in 30 days? Fuck ya, run my background.
Unless anything else changes, the rest is already in play. At face value, its an EO that says the sky is blue.
The critical downfall of 41P is if it requires CLEO sign off even for trust and LLC NFA transactions. If all they do is run background checks on people in trusts and LLCs when the paperwork is submitted, it might work to all of our favors. We all know that anyone submitting for a stamp is beyond the criminal element. Background check away. In the mean time, this EO will dedicated MORE PERSONNEL to the NFA paperwork process. Stamps in 30 days? Fuck ya, run my background.
Unless anything else changes, the rest is already in play. At face value, its an EO that says the sky is blue.
In the end nothing was dedicated towards increasing $ for the nfa end of the deal. Just more towards the standard background crew. It also looks like they are definitely making things vague and looking to entrap people for things that shouldn't be an issue:
White House Senior Adviser Valerie Jarrett said the ATF will consider all the "facts and circumstances" of the gun seller: Whether he or she has business cards, accepts credit card payments, makes a profit, or sells guns in their original packaging or shortly after acquiring them.
Lynch noted that courts have held that as few as two sales could trigger the requirement.
SA Friday
01-04-2016, 21:44
In the end nothing was dedicated towards increasing $ for the nfa end of the deal. Just more towards the standard background crew. It also looks like they are definitely making things vague and looking to entrap people for things that shouldn't be an issue:
White House Senior Adviser Valerie Jarrett said the ATF will consider all the "facts and circumstances" of the gun seller: Whether he or she has business cards, accepts credit card payments, makes a profit, or sells guns in their original packaging or shortly after acquiring them.
Lynch noted that courts have held that as few as two sales could trigger the requirement.
We will see. Once the manpower is in the pipeline, the EO doesn't dictate exactly where and how the backgrounds are done. I played this game of appropriations at HQ AFOSI. There's every reason to believe that the backgrounds would be incorporated into the NFA paperwork process and so some of those new background employees would end up in the West Virginia NFA office. Then they just expand the actual office so they have more examiners to process the packages. Its a win-win.
It could turn out many different ways, but this is pretty plausible.
Looks like there will be some side stepping of HIPAA laws. Just wait til the .gov runs ALL the healthcare and it'll be "what HIPAA laws?".
"Remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information to the background check system. Although States generally report criminal history information to NICS, many continue to report little information about individuals who are prohibited by Federal law from possessing or receiving a gun for specific mental health reasons. Some State officials raised concerns about whether such reporting would be precluded by the Privacy Rule issued under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Today, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a final rule expressly permitting certain HIPAA covered entities to provide to the NICS limited demographic and other necessary information about these individuals."
Scare tactics have begun....
He cried. Really? Man is a disgrace.
So does more ATF agents mean the nfa items will clear faster?
ryorourke
01-05-2016, 11:48
One can only hope that nfa will clear faster, but it looks like 41p is now 41f, requiring all interested parties to send notice to CLEO.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/
Excerpt if my link doesn't work: In general, most of what the public was concerned about was removed from 41P by changing the CLEO Certification requirement that was proposed for trusts to be a CLEO Notification.It will not take effect until 180 days after publication in the Federal Registry so there is still time to purchase items under the existing rules and more reason than ever to create your Gun Trust now.
When 41F the new name for 41P takes effect it will not be retroactive. That is all applications submitted under the current rules will continue to be processed. In addition, there is no requirement to comply with the new rules for previously approved applications or legal entities like Gun Trusts. On page 198 ATF states “The final rule is not retroactive and therefore the final rule will not apply to applications that are in ‘pending’ status, or to previously approved applications for existing legal entities and trusts (Gun Trusts) holding NFA items.”
While I am still reading the 248 pages, so far here are the highlights.
The final rule only requires that the applicant maker or transferee, including each responsible person for a trust or legal entity, provide a notice to the appropriate State or local official that an application is being submitted to ATF
The final rule also adds a new section to ATF’s regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent. The new section clarifies that the executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a “transfer” under the NFA. It also specifies that the transfer of the firearm to any beneficiary of the estate may be made on a tax-exempt basis.
Amendments to§ 479.62 proposed to change the following for Trusts:
1. Provide that all information on the Form 1 application must be furnished for each responsible person of the applicant;
2. Each responsible person must comply with the identification requirements prescribed in the proposed§ 479.63(b); and
3. Require the applicant (including, if other than an individual, any responsible person), if an alien admitted under a nonimmigrant visa, to provide applicable documentation demonstrating that the applicant falls within an exception to 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B) or has obtained a waiver of that provision.
KestrelBike
01-05-2016, 14:32
So if they do an upfront background check, what's the point of waiting 6mo for the stamp? Wtf are the examiners actually doing during that time besides working through the backlog of thousands of applications? It'd be nice if the gov was upfront and transparent with their processes.
I'm starting to give fewer and fewer F's about upholding my end of the "bargain" re the entire NFA process that I can control.
Looks like there will be some side stepping of HIPAA laws. Just wait til the .gov runs ALL the healthcare and it'll be "what HIPAA laws?".
"Remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information to the background check system. Although States generally report criminal history information to NICS, many continue to report little information about individuals who are prohibited by Federal law from possessing or receiving a gun for specific mental health reasons. Some State officials raised concerns about whether such reporting would be precluded by the Privacy Rule issued under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Today, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a final rule expressly permitting certain HIPAA covered entities to provide to the NICS limited demographic and other necessary information about these individuals."
This is what concerns me the most.
How many vets have PTSD listed on their disability ratings?
Seems like an easy way to disarm the group most feared by our govt.
buffalobo
01-06-2016, 05:27
This is what concerns me the most.
How many vets have PTSD listed on their disability ratings?
Seems like an easy way to disarm the group most feared by our govt.
The Over lords are hoping so.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
BPTactical
01-06-2016, 05:51
The 800# elephant in the room nobody has noticed.
Now local CLEO will know who has every NFA item in their jurisdiction.
While this entire EO package seems fairly benign on the surface remain vigilant, the devil is in the details.
milwaukeeshaker
01-06-2016, 10:04
,[Sarcasm2] Nahhhh, the Govt. would never do that in THIS country!
While this entire EO package seems fairly benign on the surface remain vigilant, the devil is in the details.
Yup. People are celebrating it but there's no way the regime does something pro-2a so there's more to this plan. As you said, it's getting all the NFA items on the radar to the CLEO.
sellersm
01-06-2016, 11:01
Stewart Best points out the slippery slope, takes a look at the word "infringe": https://lightgateblogger.wordpress.com/2016/01/06/oblivious/
sellersm
01-06-2016, 11:37
James Wesley Rawles responds today in his blog: http://survivalblog.com/
It appears that one of President BHO’s new executive orders (due to be signed on Wednesday) will expand the definition of “engaged in the business” selling guns, and this will hurt gun collectors and our gun shows. It appears that they are going to try to corral more INTRAState transactions of used merchandise into Federal jurisdiction, via the Commerce Clause, which is all about INTERstate commerce of newly-manufactured merchandise. They can “hope and change” this all they want, but it is unconstitutional. And we all know what Marbury v. Madison says about unconstitutional laws: We can ignore them. (“Lex malla, lex nulla.“)
It seems to me that as long as you have what you want, things don't change for now. It is the first time you want something new, you are screwed and have to give them all this information. I'm not saying I like this and it sucks for the next generation but there is a little cover. We don't have to declare everything to the LEO's in 180 days.....
Still sucks though.
KestrelBike
01-06-2016, 17:13
Whole thing is a joke anyways. Why doesn't someone become a sacrificial lamb and do the following:
Have a clean record.
Legally obtain an NFA item (an SBR)
Buy a 16.5" tavor
Create a second SBR just as long as the tavor, but without filing for a tax stamp.
Notify the authorities.
Take it to court and start swinging. Challenge based on the fact that there's no difference between the first SBR (w/ the stamp) and the legal tavor and the second, non-approved SBR.
Whole thing is a joke anyways. Why doesn't someone become a sacrificial lamb and do the following:
Have a clean record.
Legally obtain an NFA item (an SBR)
Buy a 16.5" tavor
Create a second SBR just as long as the tavor, but without filing for a tax stamp.
Notify the authorities.
Take it to court and start swinging. Challenge based on the fact that there's no difference between the first SBR (w/ the stamp) and the legal tavor and the second, non-approved SBR.
I vote for you to give that a shot.
KestrelBike - they will arrest you on the spot for this when you present it - Create a second SBR just as long as the tavor, but without filing for a tax stamp.
Moves like this EO make me question whether I should harbor less anger towards Obama than before, on this specific topic at least. This looks exactly like pandering to dumbass liberals to make them happy without actually doing anything.
Jonathan Adler posted an interesting read on the President's "guidance" yesterday at the Volokh Conspiracy - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/01/05/new-atf-guidance-on-gun-sales-is-legally-meaningless-or-else-it-would-be-unlawful/
I especially liked this line.
"A consequence of choosing to issue a guidance document instead of a new regulation, however, is that the guidance document cannot have legal force."
As for the President, I can think of no better epitaph for the man's time in office: "it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."
BPTactical
01-06-2016, 22:40
Jonathan Adler posted an interesting read on the President's "guidance" yesterday at the Volokh Conspiracy - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/01/05/new-atf-guidance-on-gun-sales-is-legally-meaningless-or-else-it-would-be-unlawful/
I especially liked this line.
"A consequence of choosing to issue a guidance document instead of a new regulation, however, is that the guidance document cannot have legal force."
As for the President, I can think of no better epitaph for the man's time in office: "it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."
In other words a petulant, narcissistic would be boy king flapped his gums to appease the masses and present the illusion that substantive steps were taken to "protect us".
It was done more to appease himself than any thing else.
Think about this as well: We recently had an incident (San Bernadino) which had a unifying effect on a large portion of the population. Right, left, black white it had a unifying effect.
Now he comes out with his pen and phone and again, divides
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.