View Full Version : PD: Bystander took law into own hands
Heard about this in a news snippet...and can't stop shaking my head.
PD: Bystander took law into own hands (http://www.9news.com/story/news/2016/01/10/man-accused-firing-robbery-suspect-issued-summons/78596484/)
KUSA - Aurora Police say a bystander to a robbery who “may have tried to do the right thing” may be in hot water.
Around 7:30 p.m. Saturday, police say a masked man entered a Subway in the 15000 block of East Iliff Avenue -- near South Chambers Road -- and demanded money from a woman who worked there. Police say the suspect hit the woman and made off with an undisclosed amount of cash. The employee had minor injuries.
As the suspect was making his getaway, police say an armed bystander, identified as Avery Nelson, started to chase the suspect, following him from the Subway and into the street.
As Nelson was chasing the suspect, police say he pulled out and gun and fired two warning shots in the air, followed by a few additional shots that struck the suspect's car.
“When you fire rounds into the air you have no clue where those rounds may end up and if they'll strike anybody,” Aurora Police Sgt. Chris Amsler said.
Amsler said by firing the shots, Nelson inadvertently put the public in danger.
“Who knows where those rounds may have ended up," he said.
Nelson was issued a summons and will have to appear in court for reckless endangerment and the firing of a weapon.
Amsler says in similar situations it's more important for a bystander to be a good witness rather than taking the law into their own hands.
“Get a good description of the suspect, the suspects’ vehicle and then wait for police to respond and provide that information to us," he said.
Police say the suspect who robbed the Subway store has yet to be found, however his car was located near South Joplin Way and South Idalia Street.
[facepalm]
Fucking retards going to keep ruining it for us. This is especially dumb given a month or so ago the dumb bitch in another state that was shooting at shoplifters.
Calculated
01-10-2016, 22:32
Too many movies.. Did he not pay attention in concealed carry class? Or even give the real world a quick thought? I guess I'm assuming he was concealed carrying with a permit.
And what's the lesson here everyone? Warning shots don't accomplish anything but trouble for yourself. If you're running, and you hear gun shots behind you, the last thing you're going to do is stop.
HoneyBadger
01-10-2016, 23:01
Don't go looking for trouble... Be a good witness... DON'T EVER FIRE SHOTS WITHOUT A SURE TARGET.
I missed the part where he said he feared for his life.
hurley842002
01-10-2016, 23:04
Too many movies.. Did he not pay attention in concealed carry class? Or even give the real world a quick thought? I guess I'm assuming he was concealed carrying with a permit.
Online class...
Rooskibar03
01-10-2016, 23:14
Online class...
Or a Groupon for a 3 hour class at a hotel [facepalm]
Circuits
01-11-2016, 00:28
Hunter safety qualifies as training for CCW...
68Charger
01-11-2016, 00:33
Don't make this into requirements for people smarter than mr. Nelson
Feels too much like requiring me to take defensive driving courses because some guy in Aspen was arrested for driving drunk.
He shoulda listened to Doug Llewelyn...[Shake]
Or a Groupon for a 3 hour class at a hotel [facepalm]
^^^My first thought
I don't like the title, or the popular turn of phrase. What this guy did had nothing to do with the law, and wasn't what any law abiding person, or LEO would have done.
I don't like the title, or the popular turn of phrase. What this guy did had nothing to do with the law, and wasn't what any law abiding person, or LEO would have done.
Not sure how his actions had nothing to do with the "law". He broke just a few in his response to the robber's actions. He very well may have been a "law abiding citizen" up until he started going lone wolf.
I'm referring to the excerpt saying "he took the law into his own hands." He did nothing of the sort. That phrase insinuates that someone took it upon themselves to affect the law on another person in some way. Since lawfully dealing with crime doesn't include firing "warning" shots into the air, I'm disagreeing with that statement. He didn't even catch the guy.
Police say the suspect who robbed the Subway store has yet to be found, however his car was located near South Joplin Way and South Idalia Street, because of the bullet holes through the drivers side door.
[Coffee]
I see what you're saying Irving. Guess they should've said, "He attempted to take the law into his own hands..." Whole lotta fail in this.
StagLefty
01-11-2016, 08:33
Damn warning shot loophole again !!
Anyone die? No?
Then I guess he was less criminal than the animals running around Denver/Aurora every weekend intentionally shooting people.
BushMasterBoy
01-11-2016, 09:21
Sensationalist media again. No one harmed. Case dismissed. The law is a two edged sword...
Aloha_Shooter
01-11-2016, 09:21
I'd like to get more information before passing judgment. I'm afraid I have a tough time believing the press these days even if there are a dozen stories corroborating the information. In a case where they're desperate to show someone shooting negligently ... let's see.
PugnacAutMortem
01-11-2016, 09:42
Or a Groupon for a 3 hour class at a hotel [facepalm]
HA...that's exactly what Wulf does for his classes (minus the groupon).
HoneyBadger
01-11-2016, 10:03
An individual should ALWAYS be held responsible for their actions. If his "warning shots" or other shots had injured anyone or damaged any property, he ought to be held responsible.
If there were charges brought against him and I was on the jury, I might to tempted to mention Jury Nullification.... but I really don't want to encourage this sort of behavior either.
How about just loading the first two rounds with blanks, in the future?
[Sarcasm2]
KevDen2005
01-11-2016, 10:13
I say the police will be able to locate the vehicle by the bullet holes in it, so really, there is a positive light
KevDen2005
01-11-2016, 10:14
And Hummer beat me to it
HoneyBadger
01-11-2016, 10:16
I say the police will be able to locate the vehicle by the bullet holes in it, so really, there is a positive light
Since the holes are in the driver's door, they might be able to locate the body by the bullet holes in it as well.
At this point, if I were the "bystander" here, I would be praying my butt off that they don't find a body.
KevDen2005
01-11-2016, 10:19
Since the holes are in the driver's door, they might be able to locate the body by the bullet holes in it as well.
At this point, if I were the "bystander" here, I would be praying my butt off that they don't find a body.
Eh, get a good lawyer. Play off the armed felon putting people in danger portion and he was only trying to help. You can't get a jury to convict.
HoneyBadger
01-11-2016, 10:33
Eh, get a good lawyer. Play off the armed felon putting people in danger portion and he was only trying to help. You can't get a jury to convict.
Lots of people have done very bad things under the guise that they were "only trying to help".
I think a prosecutor could easily argue that the guy put far more people in danger because he fired a gun several times and (apparently) didn't hit his target.
As always, it's easy for us to armchair QB this one. [Abused]
Saw an interview with the guy last night. Apparently, he's one of those douchenozzles that carries a "Fugitive Recovery Agent" badge around his neck, AKA private bounty hunter(he didn't want his face shown on camera). IF I had to guess, he probably has tried at one point to become a LEO, but washed out or failed selection. So, basically a guy with poor impulse control and a hero complex. Somehow, when I was in my 20s, I managed to do bounty hunting for several years without shooting (or shooting at) anyone. I quit because my day job paid a helluva lot better on a per hour basis, without having to deal with the dregs of humanity.
EDIT: found it
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/01/10/man-accused-of-firing-at-robbery-suspect-issued-summons/
AURORA, Colo. (CBS4) – A man was issued a summons for reckless endangerment and discharging a weapon after police say he fired his gun at an armed robbery suspect.According to police, the robbery suspect walked into the Subway sandwich shop on East Iliff Avenue near South Chambers Road in Aurora around 7:40 p.m. Saturday, assaulted a female employee, and demanded money.
https://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/subway-armed-robbery-pkg-tra-nsfer.jpg?w=420&h=236The Subway shop on East Iliff Avenue (credit: CBS)
“I saw two females screaming and ducking for cover,” said the bystander who fired shots, who wished to remain anonymous.
The bystander said he has years of training as a fugitive recovery agent. He told CBS4 that he was at the right place at the right time to stop the fleeing suspect.
https://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/subway-armed-robbery-pkg-transfer.jpg?w=420&h=236(credit: CBS)
“I did feel that my life and the lives of the people in my community were in danger,” said the bystander. “So I wanted to stop that person.”
Subway staff told CBS4 that the robbery suspect punched a female employee in the face, slammed her to the floor, and kicked her in the ribs before running off with the cash.
That’s when the bystander stepped in to try to make a citizen’s arrest.
“It could have been any person at any time. I just happened to be prepared with the right tools to respond to try and at least get this person into custody,” he said.
KevDen2005
01-11-2016, 10:44
Lots of people have done very bad things under the guise that they were "only trying to help".
I think a prosecutor could easily argue that the guy put far more people in danger because he fired a gun several times and (apparently) didn't hit his target.
As always, it's easy for us to armchair QB this one. [Abused]
I have no doubt the prosecutor will make a very valid case against this idiot. But it really isn't that hard to get out of charges or at least plea down to something very minor. Always take it to jury trial man. Juries are the worst for getting solid convictions on important crimes.
Shooting the maggot while he was still in the store and assaulting the female employee would likely have been OK, but chasing him down the street firing into the air, and then shooting at his car? Massive FAIL. He's in deep shit.
Aloha_Shooter
01-11-2016, 12:13
He uttered the magic words about feeling his life and those of others were in danger. I don't know how the shots in the air will play out but if he can give a good accounting of his bullets and it matches up with the holes in the door (i.e., he hit his target), I can't see a charge of reckless endangerment standing. Even discharges in the air are hardly reckless endangerment (stupid maybe but reckless or endangering?) unless there's air traffic overhead.
Maybe he'd like to borrow my photos of a 9mm bullet embedded in the first layer of a roof shingle to show he wasn't really endangering anyone.
BPTactical
01-11-2016, 14:24
I missed the part where he said he feared for his life.
Me too
This genius also happens to be a bounty hunter-or as he described himself "fugitive recovery agent".
Zundfolge
01-11-2016, 14:51
He didn't "take the law in his own hands" ... he took the opportunity of someone else's violations of the law as a pretext to violate the law himself.
I hate the phrase "took the law in his own hands" as a condemnation. The law belongs to all of us and self defense is "taking the law into your own hands" as is installing locks and security systems, as is suing someone as is calling the police to report a crime.
He was just taking biden's advice as he understood it
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
HoneyBadger
01-11-2016, 15:32
The bystander said he has years of training as a fugitive recovery agent.
Basically Judge Dredd, right?
[ROFL1]
KevDen2005
01-11-2016, 17:23
Basically Judge Dredd, right?
[ROFL1]
Do you think you can just become a fugitive recovery agent overnight? No! It's gonna take a solid weekend to get all the training you need.
Bailey Guns
01-11-2016, 18:20
"I'm a FRA, Bra..."
wctriumph
01-11-2016, 18:42
Do you think you can just become a fugitive recovery agent overnight? No! It's gonna take a solid weekend to get all the training you need.
And probably another 4 to 6 weeks for the badge to come in the mail.
KevDen2005
01-11-2016, 19:10
And probably another 4 to 6 weeks for the badge to come in the mail.
Well played
And probably another 4 to 6 weeks for the badge to come in the mail.
It's faster if you use the claw machine at Chucky Cheese's, but it'll likely cost more...
http://youtu.be/9efgLHgsBmM
If the guy had stopped the attack by shooting the guy pummeling the female employee, I and pretty much any jury could understand. When the perp is running away from the store and the threat had abated...so so stupid and reckless.
HoneyBadger
01-11-2016, 21:51
Do you think you can just become a fugitive recovery agent overnight? No! It's gonna take a solid weekend to get all the training you need.
[ROFL1]
He may be a douchenozzle; the badge points in that direction. But isn't this more a prosecution for poor marksmanship than for bad judgement? Whether his claim of firing warning shots is true or not, if he had hit and stopped the fleeing felon, would there even be a prosecution of someone who halted an armed robber who was likely to mete additional assaults upon others in his path? Isn't this a political prosecution founded more on the technicality of law (and faulty judgement) than the morality of good vs. evil? A mini show trial for the prosecutor?
He may be a douchenozzle; the badge points in that direction. But isn't this more a prosecution for poor marksmanship than for bad judgement? Whether his claim of firing warning shots is true or not, if he had hit and stopped the fleeing felon, would there even be a prosecution of someone who halted an armed robber who was likely to mete additional assaults upon others in his path? Isn't this a political prosecution founded more on the technicality of law (and faulty judgement) than the morality of good vs. evil? A mini show trial for the prosecutor?
"Imminent danger" is the enabling/limiting factor in legal use of lethal force.
A felon running does not pose an imminent danger to the shooter or others. I don't even think LE can shoot fleeing felons anymore without other circumstances. So I think there would be a prosecution for shooting someone in the back, running away from the shooter.
I recall a JeffCo (Liberal) DA successfully prosecuted a homeowner some years ago for shooting at car thieves (and he hit one, IIRC). The car thieves were on his property but fleeing (with the homeowner's truck). The legal argument was that although the thieves did pose a imminent threat to the homeowner while stealing the truck, that the threat had passed at the time the shots were fired.
I hate the idea of putting more restrictions/requirements on CCW, but folks could really benefit from a thorough understanding of the law and real-life scenarios/outcomes in the classes.
That aside... This is way overblown because "GUNS!!!!" The precious criminal wasn't harmed and continue "just getting his life together" or "enrolling in college."
The firing of warning shots is never warranted. Screw this guy, this could be "what if" to death, no excuse, end of story. No sympathy if this idiot gets prosecuted.
The firing of warning shots is never warranted. Screw this guy, this could be "what if" to death, no excuse, end of story. No sympathy if this idiot gets prosecuted.
Agreed. Every shot fired has a lawyer waiting at the other end...
The firing of warning shots is never warranted. Screw this guy, this could be "what if" to death, no excuse, end of story. No sympathy if this idiot gets prosecuted.
Uncle Joe says otherwise: Biden advised a woman in an online town hall in February to “buy a shotgun” for self-defense purposes. He elaborated on how he had instructed his wife to handle herself if she felt unsafe in their Delaware home. “I said, ‘Jill, if there’s ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house.”
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/353788/man-arrested-firing-warning-shots-i-did-what-joe-biden-told-me-do-katherine-connell
HoneyBadger
01-12-2016, 15:14
Uncle Joe says otherwise: Biden advised a woman in an online town hall in February to “buy a shotgun” for self-defense purposes. He elaborated on how he had instructed his wife to handle herself if she felt unsafe in their Delaware home. “I said, ‘Jill, if there’s ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house.”
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/353788/man-arrested-firing-warning-shots-i-did-what-joe-biden-told-me-do-katherine-connell
If you are taking legal advice from Joe Biden, you really need to re-evaluate your long term survival strategy. [Flower]
KevDen2005
01-13-2016, 12:16
Agreed. Every shot fired has a lawyer waiting at the other end...
This must keep law schools packed full of students. And seemingly increase the danger of practicing law.
This is how it's done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQQYvClGws
This must keep law schools packed full of students. And seemingly increase the danger of practicing law.
ROFL...they're adept at dodging, must have something to do with the athletic training (chasing ambulances, dodging prosecutors, burying evidence).
This is how it's done.
It was difficult to hear all the warning shots without sound.
Do you think you can just become a fugitive recovery agent overnight? No! It's gonna take a solid weekend to get all the training you need.
Or at least a $750 seminar at your local Quality Inn...
My opinion on Fugitive Recovery Agents (let's cut the crap and call it what it is- bounty hunter, aka glorified security guard who couldn't cut it as a cop), are garbage. They're cowboys who think they're on equal ground to real cops (the one's who aren't former LE that are actually good). Thanks to Dog their image is a bit tarnished, and so many want to be like him or Domino Harvey. The only Fugitive Recovery guys I truly respect are those who work for the U.S. Marshalls.
KevDen2005
01-13-2016, 16:07
ROFL...they're adept at dodging, must have something to do with the athletic training (chasing ambulances, dodging prosecutors, burying evidence).
I have noticed that a large percentage seem to be cardio type of people. Thin and agile. Ready to run at a moments notice. The bigger ones are bosses I guess.
HoneyBadger
01-13-2016, 21:28
This is how it's done.
Are there actually any shots fired here? I honestly can't tell if he gets shot in the chest or if he just gets the bones scared out of his legs.
...and did the guy with the hoodie have a weapon...or was the hoodie threatening enough?
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