Another shooting

[Doc45]

Well things went to hell at the Motorcycle Expo today. Suposedly two rival "groups" got in to it, shots fired, knives pulled, 1 dead, 7 injured and transported. No suspects identified or in custody.

[kidicarus13]

Shocker

[Robb]

Yup, I'm not in the know about biker gangs, would be good to know what set things off.

[Squeeze]

Mongols and the Hells Angels. They've been rivals for a long time.

[T-Giv]

Bunch of wannabe tough guys showing how "tough" they are.

[Doc45]

Mongols and the Hells Angels. They've been rivals for a long time.

Are you sure? I thought it was Mongols and Iron Order.

[BPTactical]

#BikerLivesMatter

[sic_semper_tyrannis]

Those loud pipes failed to save any lives today...

[alan0269]

http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/denver-colorado-coliseum-motorcycle-expo-shooting-stabbing-suspects-victims-names-national-western-complex/

NBC reported (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rival-biker-gang-brawl-denver-expo-leads-1-dead-multiple-n507761)that the altercation may have been caused by a fight between The Mongols and the Iron Order biker gangs, with two people from each gang being in grave condition.

[Doc45]

Not to be crass but I really hope the dead/wounded were parties to the fight and not just swap meet attendees. The other clubs that were there tore down their displays and boogied.

[lex137]

I wanted to see the wet tshirt contest... Good thing I didn't go.

[KestrelBike]

I wish they'd stick to knives and fists and leave guns out of it.

[Great-Kazoo]

http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/denver-colorado-coliseum-motorcycle-expo-shooting-stabbing-suspects-victims-names-national-western-complex/

NBC reported (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rival-biker-gang-brawl-denver-expo-leads-1-dead-multiple-n507761)that the altercation may have been caused by a fight between The Mongols and the Iron Order biker gangs, with two people from each gang being in grave condition.


IO have the same color scheme as the mongels. ALLEGEDLY Team A takes offense, Team B says fuck you , want them try taking them off our backs. The rest is news . Or so goes the scuttle butt of various people around the floor. As you can see same color scheme. SO.................. picture a cat fight at some fashion show, only between "men" armed with more than fake nails and silicone
https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Mc0d7a22ecc205bc424f8581091ed8d7fo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300 https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Mf0079b7308447449abf9acf098a7d274o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300


Gather it took place on the main level and lower one.
There's always a beef when costumes are worn. Someone's buthurt, someones fucking the other ones tittie dance GF. Who knows who cares. Hypothetically gang rivalry at one time took place with out civilians around. ESPECIALLY in todays age of cell phone cameras / video. Probably more than 1 or 2 people recorded the altercation without even realizing what was going down.

[smchop]

I can tell you the Angels had nothing to do with it, I believe the Bandidos were involved with another club, I guess those two clubs tore down their stuff and split right after. Now they've cancelled tomorrow and I was going to look for parts! Maybe they'll put up a "no colors" policy and it can finally go back to being about motorcycles and parts again.

**Someone had it right, it was the Iron Order and Monguls**

[ImNtUrBuddyGuy]

Iron Order MC, one of the clubs involved in this, is known to have many former and current Law Enforcement and military--that being said the Iron Order are still known to get into brawls and be violent just like any other club. Here's a report from the Military Times article: (http://www.militarytimes.com/story/life/2015/07/12/inside-military-mcs-motorcycle-clubs-iron-order-green-nights-infidels-raging-goats-warfighters-hells-angels/30047421/)

Another club dubbed the Iron Order, composed largely of current and former military and — perhaps ironically — law enforcement officers, also is on ATF's radar.

"The Iron Order is one of the fastest growing motorcycle clubs in the United States. Members wear a traditional three-piece patch with a State bottom rocker," reads the report, a copy of which was obtained by Military Times. In biker culture, use of a bottom rocker naming a place, such as a state, on club "colors" usually indicates a claim to territory.

"The fact that they wear the State bottom rocker has infuriated the [Hells Angels], Outlaws, Iron Horsemen, Pagans and Bandidos. More importantly, many of their members are police and corrections officers, active-duty military and/or government employees and contractors. Over the past 4 years, the Iron Order has had several violent confrontations with each of the aforementioned OMGs."

That has led some local commanders to bar troops from involvement in the Iron Order, among others, citing Defense Department regulations prohibiting participation in any "criminal gang or organization" that advocates the use of force or violence.

[Great-Kazoo]

I can tell you the Angels had nothing to do with it, I believe the Bandidos were involved with another club, I guess those two clubs tore down their stuff and split right after. Now they've cancelled tomorrow and I was going to look for parts! Maybe they'll put up a "no colors" policy and it can finally go back to being about motorcycles and parts again.

Neither the angels or bandits had a hand in this. If anything , it's another power play by the mongrels. Knowing they would be seriously hurt , sooner or later. If they tried muscling either club. So they try punking some low level club. Typical.

The real question is... who is on the hook for reimbursing the vendors? Look to see a possible law suite. The show folks going after the city & county of Denver.

Then the city will use ready for this..........Terrorism .Under the guise of state security, they were preventing a potential blood bath. Keeping innocent people from being killed or seriously injured, avoiding, in their words. A mass shooting .

No one squeaks, why would they? It's only some lowlife bikers.......

Remember how gun owners, ESPECIALLY returning veteran's were (mentioned in passing) potential domestic terrorist. That sound? It's the sound of liberty being put out.

[bellavite1]

Iron Order MC, one of the clubs involved in this, is known to have many former and current Law Enforcement and military--that being said the Iron Order are still known to get into brawls and be violent just like any other club. Here's a report from the Military Times article: (http://www.militarytimes.com/story/life/2015/07/12/inside-military-mcs-motorcycle-clubs-iron-order-green-nights-infidels-raging-goats-warfighters-hells-angels/30047421/)
Chief White was trying to distance the police from this:" White was asked whether any law enforcement officers were members of the motorcycle clubs at the expo. White said he didn’t know. He said, however, “There were no Denver police officers involved.”
In my days clubs were clubs and cops were cops.
WTF happened???

Sent from my XT1045 using Tapatalk

[StagLefty]

Sons of Marijuanarchy ?

[BushMasterBoy]

I guess it is like Kazoo & me, similar avatars...

[O2HeN2]

Not to be crass but I really hope the dead/wounded were parties to the fight and not just swap meet attendees.
I believe the term you're looking for is "consensual violence."

I have no problem with those participating in consensual violence dying; it makes the world a safer place for everyone else.

It's the innocent, collateral damage that's reprehensible.

O2

[Great-Kazoo]

Chief White was trying to distance the police from this:" White was asked whether any law enforcement officers were members of the motorcycle clubs at the expo. White said he didn’t know. He said, however, “There were no Denver police officers involved.”
In my days clubs were clubs and cops were cops.
WTF happened???

Sent from my XT1045 using Tapatalk

Once H-D's became affordable AND acceptable for the general public to ride. It went down hill. H-D pulled the Old Honda playbook out of storage, dusted it off and marketed it to john & jane doe.
I know you remember
YOU MEET THE NICEST PEOPLE ON A HONDA.

Another part of the issue was when anyone wearing a cut off was given a pass instead of beat down. Top & Bottom Rockers saying INDEPENDENT, unfukingbelieveable.
The wheels on the wagon go round & round.

[davsel]

The IOMC mistakenly decided to challenge the big boys by creating an "independent" MC. They're playing dress-up and paying the price.
If a group of gun enthusiasts in LA decided to form their own club and colors and gang signs and run around flashing them in Blood's or Crip's territory, we'd see the same thing.
Idiots.

https://ironordermc.com/

Our path is the toughest path for any motorcycle club and we have great pride in staying the course no matter what. But if you do choose to try and join us and you make it, then you are joining the elite, the chosen, the dedicated, It might be the hardest thing you ever do. It will definitely be the hardest thing to stand up for but there is a good reason for that. This is an MC. It is not make believe.
But it is make believe when you wear the costume but don't want to follow the rules.

[Doc45]

I'll disagree on the aspect of HD's being affordable. For the past 15 years at least they are consistently one of the most expensive brands- was lucky on my last purchase, got a '14 Dyna with 3700 miles and the 103 motor for under $12k which is still stupid. I love it, gives me the ride I like.

In over 45 years of riding and racing (as a teen) I've owned most of the major brands and like them all.

When Sonny Barger came through Denver a number of years ago to promote a book I heard him talk about how if he had his choice he'd be on a BMW-this was at Rocky Mtn HD. Of course he stated that the outlaws/1%ers would only ride HDs for the image.

The leos I know that ride belong to The Sentinels if they belong to any club. More belong to veteran groups that are definitely not 1%ers.

A good read about The Mongols is William Queen's "Under and Alone". He's a former Ranger then ATF and successfully infiltrated them and it led to many convictions. Unlike that flake "Jaybird" Dobbins who blew his task to get in to the Angels and didn't get a single conviction.

[Skip]

So when are us dual sporters/ADVers going to get in on this action? I feel left out!

[Great-Kazoo]

So when are us dual sporters/ADVers going to get in on this action? I feel left out!


Just wait
You're going to see the domestic terrorism angle bandied about in weeks to come.

You'll really go WTF? When the clubs are referred to as MILITIA'S ON 2 WHEELS.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'll disagree on the aspect of HD's being affordable. For the past 15 years at least they are consistently one of the most expensive brands- was lucky on my last purchase, got a '14 Dyna with 3700 miles and the 103 motor for under $12k which is still stupid. I love it, gives me the ride I like.

In over 45 years of riding and racing (as a teen) I've owned most of the major brands and like them all.



It's affordable since you can finance a new or used H-D at a dealers for up to 8 years. NO MONEY DOWN! Hell yeah where do i sign.

AS for Barger, well he's become a status symbol. When one thinks (if they do) of the HA / Local 81 who do they think of ? Sonny Barger.

At one time it was the Big 5. As i said, every swinging dick wears a patch of some kind. The worse is those SOA morons. ANYONE seen wearing that shit should have been given a tune up out the gate.
You want to pretend you're in some TV show tough guy mc gang. Well... you're going to get some t.v show loving.

[Doc45]

So when are us dual sporters/ADVers going to get in on this action? I feel left out!

Watch out for the jerks running wires across trails!! Met a guy on a BMW 1200 GS yesterday at Performance Cycle-he traded in his HD for it, just loves it. Very nice bike.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Why can't there be a clash between the Hells Angels type of clubs and all those stupid sport bike groups out there?

[Great-Kazoo]

Why can't there be a clash between the Hells Angels type of clubs and all those stupid sport bike groups out there?

I like it. perhaps A pay per view titled

WHEN CLUB MEETS MUD!
Down and Dirty becomes a new reality for those on 2 wheels!


Get it now with On demand, your Pay per View Provider.

[Skip]

Watch out for the jerks running wires across trails!! Met a guy on a BMW 1200 GS yesterday at Performance Cycle-he traded in his HD for it, just loves it. Very nice bike.

Drool. If only I could afford one.

I have no interest in giving up the KLR though. I'd flirted with adding a street bike but never executed.



Just wait
You're going to see the domestic terrorism angle bandied about in weeks to come.

You'll really go WTF? When the clubs are referred to as MILITIA'S ON 2 WHEELS.

I've already checked several of Janet Reno-Napalitano's boxes. Why shouldn't I add another one? ;)

[Great-Kazoo]

Seriously.
Typical lawyer, cast Doubt and deflection elsewhere.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29456619/motorcycle-club-lawyer-members-attacked-by-rival-gangs

Whitfield, who is flying to Denver Sunday to help handle the matter, said he didn't know if any of the Iron Order members who were injured or who attended the event were police officers.
"I believe one of our guys that was jumped may have been an African American[facepalm]. That is not looked on with high regard in some" other clubs, he said.

[Doc45]

Oh great, lawyer (liar) to the rescue-barf! And you're spot on about about the tools wearing SOA shirts. 2 years ago at this same event saw two guys wearing that crap get verbally raped by SOS and Angels for wearing it-they left quickly.

It's really a drag this happened because there have always been outstanding old machines on display to drool over. That was the only reason I ever went.

[BPTactical]

I bought my first Harley when I was 17. Got my first tattoo shortly thereafter.
Why?
Because only THOSE people rode Harleys and had tattoos.
That's why I rode, because I like being one of THOSE people.
You built your sled from the ground up, it was a part of you. When my wife moved in with me there was a small block Ford with a tunnel ram on it where the kitchen table should be and a chopped, hardtail '77 Sportster where the coffee table should be.
It was a way of life.
The first time I saw some dentist/lawyer/accountant otherwise douchebag on a brand new Ultra Glide in shorts and tennis shoes I knew that way of life didn't have the same meaning.

[sellersm]

I bought my first Harley when I was 17. Got my first tattoo shortly thereafter.
Why?
Because only THOSE people rode Harleys and had tattoos.
That's why I rode, because I like being one of THOSE people.
You built your sled from the ground up, it was a part of you. When my wife moved in with me there was a small block Ford with a tunnel ram on it where the kitchen table should be and a chopped, hardtail '77 Sportster where the coffee table should be.
It was a way of life.
The first time I saw some dentist/lawyer/accountant otherwise douchebag on a brand new Ultra Glide in shorts and tennis shoes I knew that way of life didn't have the same meaning.

Well said. Well said...


Sent from my fat fingers using Tapatalk

[ray1970]

Yeah, the days of doing crank, beating the old lady senseless, and terrorizing the local police are pretty much over these days.

Where have all of the good times gone?

[BPTactical]

Yeah, the days of doing crank, beating the old lady senseless, and terrorizing the local police are pretty much over these days.

Where have all of the good times gone?


Don't bring your childhood into this......[Coffee]

[BushMasterBoy]

The whole incident was set up by the Stealth MC. I blame those bastards...

[wctriumph]

Back in the 90's the Orange County (CA) Sheriff's and the local city LE enacted an unofficial "No Colors" policy. If you were riding through there wearing colors you were pulled over and any and all equipment violations were ticketed and many, many bikes ended up getting slung on the back of a wecker (they did not call a flatbed) even if the rider was not arrested. The local clubs moved out, the most notable being the Hessians out of Costa Mesa.

Then the Vagos and the Hells Angels moved in. The pres' of the not quite established HA was arrested for meth trafficking (I donated to his legal defense fund) and the Greenies were put under extremely strict scrutiny. Neither club wore their colors in OC. I left in 1999 and don't know the current situation there.

[TFOGGER]

I stopped going to the swap meet years ago, too many egos, overpriced used junk, and attitudes. The clubs all seem to get along at my shop, something about "holy ground"...

[smchop]

Thats funny, I know of one lone Hessian that lives out here in Colorado. I miss the old days without all the RUBS and HIPSTERS, they suck.

[BPTactical]

Thats funny, I know of one lone Hessian that lives out here in Colorado. I miss the old days without all the RUBS and HIPSTERS, they suck.

Word

[Irving]

I'll take a poser over someone who will beat you up over what you're wearing any day. Not that I'd ever accidentally find myself wearing a MC jacket.

[TFOGGER]

http://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10537019_987048631337529_9057507531549460450_n.jpg ?oh=73846acb01852345ef4c37de92554189&oe=57328D7A

[TFOGGER]

Oh hell, here we go...

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/01/31/shooter-at-motorcycle-expo-is-a-law-enforcement-officer/


DENVER, Colo. (CBS4) – Representatives for the parties involved in the deadly shooting at the National Western Complex are speaking out and CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass has confirmed a law enforcement officer fired his gun during a fight. It’s not clear is there were any other shooters.

[Doc45]

Colorado DOC employee is the shooter.

[kidicarus13]

Those DOC employees are a rowdy bunch.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/department-of-corrections-parole-manager-on-leave-after-fight-caught-on-camera-at-mile-high-stadium

[babarsac]

Well things went to hell at the Motorcycle Expo today. Suposedly two rival "groups" got in to it, shots fired, knives pulled, 1 dead, 7 injured and transported. No suspects identified or in custody.

So a bunch of motorcycle gangs were hanging out in an enclosed area...I'm shocked

[BPTactical]

I'll take a poser over someone who will beat you up over what you're wearing any day. Not that I'd ever accidentally find myself wearing a MC jacket.

LOL, tell me of your vast experience with patch holders and genuine scooter folks......


I've found more integrity and honesty in patch holders than 90% of "civilized" society.

Wannabe's are much more dangerous than a patch holder, he has something to prove.
The patch holder already did.

[Bailey Guns]

He (the club's attorney) said several Iron Order members initiated the fight. Here's his version:


Mongol members were on the bottom floor at their booth when several members of the Iron Order walked down the stairs from their booth upstairs and started staring at the Mongols.

Must've been a pretty stern stare.

[Joe_K]

To be convinced that because you ride an inherently less stable vehicle, that is more so weather dependent than any other motor vehicle, that you wear a leather vest, and several dozen others do that you are entitled, or have earned the respect of the average citizen, or of another MC/Gang strikes me as a bit....retarded. Maybe I'm not seeing where MC's/Gangs helped us out of the last financial crisis, war, depression, or national issue, maybe I'm a bit over them since my wife's uncle was stabbed to death by 4 , drugged up, and drunk Motorcycle gang members in AZ, I'm not sure what it is but I find every aspect of it ridiculous.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160201/4e390f56aaa628eba5869119fe059a40.jpg

[roberth]

Must've been a pretty stern stare.

Yeah. A couple of juveniles had a tiff because someone looked at somebody, they're so mature they decided that someone had to die for it. I'm glad the prospect and his buddy that i saw at Subway on Saturday didn't decide to shoot me when I looked at his patches.

[Skip]

Colorado DOC employee is the shooter.

Now it's getting serious.

Starting to sound like Waco (not that time when the FBI burnt women and children alive because "guns" and "crazy people" but the other time).

[alan0269]

I've found more integrity and honesty in patch holders than 90% of "civilized" society.

Wannabe's are much more dangerous than a patch holder, he has something to prove.
The patch holder already did.


I've known a few patched members of MC's over the years, and you know exactly where you stand with them. Most of them live their lives in a "you don't screw with me and what I'm doing and I won't screw with you" manner. As you said, they have nothing to prove, and as long as you don't give them a reason to be upset with you, they'll leave you alone.

[Irving]

LOL, tell me of your vast experience with patch holders and genuine scooter folks......


I've found more integrity and honesty in patch holders than 90% of "civilized" society.

Wannabe's are much more dangerous than a patch holder, he has something to prove.
The patch holder already did.

The only time I've ever even seen a real life club member (in costume anyway) was one time when he came flying down a residential street, parked his bike out front, ran into a house, screamed at a lady for like 5 minutes, then slammed the door and hopped on the bike and took off so fast down the street that he got both wheels off the ground over the speed bump at the end of the block. What is your experience with hipsters and lawyers riding Harley's having "something to prove?" Don't get your panties in a bunch over my comment about preferring hipsters to club members. I generally try to stay out of this conversation because I don't understand this culture, at all. Not even one little bit.

[alan0269]

The only time I've ever even seen a real life club member (in costume anyway) was one time when he came flying down a residential street, parked his bike out front, ran into a house, screamed at a lady for like 5 minutes, then slammed the door and hopped on the bike and took off so fast down the street that he got both wheels off the ground over the speed bump at the end of the block. What is your experience with hipsters and lawyers riding Harley's having "something to prove?" Don't get your panties in a bunch over my comment about preferring hipsters to club members. I generally try to stay out of this conversation because I don't understand this culture, at all. Not even one little bit.

I can't speak for Bert, but from talking to the people I've known and talked to the issue isn't necessarily with people riding as much as with how they act. The problem arises when someone that doesn't live within the lifestyle of an MC, but on weekends they decide they need to play "dress-up" as if they were part of the lifestyle. Most of the time an MC member will completely ignore someone riding down the road (I ride and have on many occasions been passed by a group of MC members without any issues), but when the person decides they need to have a jacket/vest with patches on the back they are opening themselves up for trouble. Some patches don't really get their attention, but when someone has anything resembling a three piece patch that the MC's have they take it seriously. Those patches are very significant (who you are, what area you claim as your club's, etc) in the MC world and have to be earned - how depends on the specific club, but they are not taken lightly or given out to anyone that hasn't proven their worth and loyalty to the club. Members are truly offended by someone thinking they can just throw a patch on the back of their jacket and act like they are a part of their world. I personally could not live their lifestyle, but when I ride I don't try to look like I belong in it either.

Here is a link that explains a little about the meaning and significance of patches:
http://www.brotherhoodmotorcycleclub.com/index_files/Page2038.htm

[kidicarus13]

Members are truly offended by someone thinking they can just throw a patch on the back of their jacket and act like they are a part of their world.

Sounds like a stolen valor situation

[encorehunter]

I won't say I have lived the lifestyle, and have never claimed I have. I have been around a few different clubs with several "patch carrying" members. As has been said, don't mess with them or their lifestyle, they don't mess with you. They are very down to earth people and friendly. I have been around Bandidos, Angels and SOS,, all three groups have great people in them. When asked why I didn't ride a HD, I told them I didn't have the time to work on it, so I rode a Victory. A lot of these groups do fund raising for local charities and help out people in the local community.
I am more worried about the newbies and posers than the actual members. I have only been in one situation that I started to feel "unsafe," and the situation ended within a minute when a senior member put an end to the "newbie's" questioning. We were at the memorial in Salida, and the rest of the weekend went smoothly.

Don't lump everyone into one group, because all have a few bad apples. If you do, then all gun owners are murderers and all car owners are drunk drivers.

[Martinjmpr]

Yeah, the days of doing crank, beating the old lady senseless, and terrorizing the local police are pretty much over these days.

Where have all of the good times gone?

I know, right? Now it's all toy runs on the 3-wheel Gold Wing and driving the mini van down to Denny's for dinner at 4pm. :D

[crashdown]

Meh...
I've been around angels, sons of silence, high plains drifters, bandidos, and a few others on numerous occasions as the only non club guy at gatherings on neutral ground. I would say they all live up to their Southpark stereotypical portrayal almost exactly.
They all do everything they can to get you to look at them out in public, and then act all "disrespected" if you look at them.
They all love the elementary age reverse psychology garbage, "we are not a gang, we are club" shit... Yes I get it, you said "we" and "gang" in the same sentence while not incriminating yourself.
If someone thinks they deserve respect because of where their mommy sewed on their bottom patch on their jacket, I'm not impressed at all.
It's all about the group mentality. You don't see too many fights when it's even on both sides, they don't like it that way. Usually they demand "respect" when they outnumber whoever they are trying to intimidate with their matching goatees, loud pipes, and outfits, I've never seen one by himself demand anything when outnumbered.

[RCCrawler]

My dad and I rode down and pulled up about 20 minutes after this happened. On the way there going down Brighton Blvd we passed 2 separate groups of SOS hauling ass outta there. I thought that was kinda odd, then when we pulled up the place was on lockdown, no one in or out. We stood out front talking to some friends for about another 20 minutes, they opened everything back up and we went in. Besides one little area being blocked off and a shit ton of cops there wasn't much of a sign anything had happened.

What I find crazy is that is was just limited to 7 people getting hurt. You have that many 1%er's all cooped up together it doesn't take much of a spark to set off a big fire and usually one something pops it's hard to stop it.

[Martinjmpr]

I don't pretend to know much about the "Outlaw Biker Culture" other than what I read (Hunter Thompson's "Hells Angels" is a very dated, but also very interesting, look at this phenomenon in its early days. It was Thompson's first book and IMO his best. He went downhill from there.)

But I've been riding since 1982 and you can't ride a road bike in the US without moving in some of the same circles, so I see these guys from time to time at gatherings like the Motorcycle Expo or at Sturgis and Daytona.

What I find interesting is the way that the "outlaw culture" has been adopted by the mainstream. Of course, this is nothing new - look at "gansta rap" and the "Narcocorridos" music out of Mexico. "Outlaw culture" has always been a hot commodity, but "biker culture" has almost become a worn out cliché.

The other thing I find interesting is that it seems like these actual "outlaw clubs" aren't really about riding motorcycles that much anyway. You see their choppers parked outside of a bar at 2:00 in the afternoon on a nice day. The guys you see doing the long distance rides or spending months at a time on the road aren't these "outlaws" they're usually old retired guys on Gold Wings or BMWs.

Although many aspects of "outlaw biker culture" have enjoyed widespread adoption among non-outlaws for decades, things like "choppers", loud pipes and leather vests covered with patches, the phenomenon of the actual "fake outlaw club" seems to be relatively recent one. That is, the groups that sport 3 piece patches or have "club nicknames", etc.

I honestly don't understand that one. It seems bizarre to me that grown adults, people with jobs and families, would put on a fake "cut" and strut around like a badass "outlaw" on the weekends. And the notion of a "law enforcement MC" seems even weirder. "Outlaw-Cops?" Huh?

Maybe it's like some of these "Airsoft" guys who spend thousands of $$ on "Operator" gear and form up fake military units for their little Airsoft games? That strikes me as bizarre too. I mean, yeah, I used to "play Army" too. When I was a KID! :rolleyes:

[68Charger]

Only Harley I ever owned was an Ironhead- it came with a fender sticker that said "It used to be about motorcycles, now it's just a fuckin' fashion show"
Sold it when I had a friend that was begging to buy it... to be his first Harley, too.

I try to keep it about motorcycles... and just enjoy riding.

[wctriumph]

National Council of Clubs Responds to Denver Motorcycle Expo ShootingFebruary 1, 2016Press Release From The National Council Of Clubs
RE: Colorado Motorcycle Expo Shooting
The National Council of Clubs, an organization dedicated to protecting the political and legal interests of hundreds of motorcycle clubs and thousands of their members nationwide, is issuing the following statement related to Saturday’s shooting at the Colorado Motorcycle Expo in Denver:

Various media sources have reported that a confrontation between two motorcycle clubs, the Mongols and the Iron Order, resulted in at least one confirmed dead and at least 7 injured during the Colorado Motorcycle Expo Saturday, January 30th. The National Council of Clubs is deeply disturbed by such unnecessary acts of violence at any event, particularly one as well supported by the community over the years as the Colorado Motorcycle Expo, the largest indoor motorcycle swap-meet in the country.

Council of Clubs attorney Wade Eldridge was present at the expo and in fact witnessed much of the confrontation. Mr. Eldridge says that he was present when he saw a crowd of Mongols and Iron Order, approximately a total of 20-30 individuals, gather inside the expo. According to Eldridge there was yelling and a verbal argument ensuing.

Mr. Eldridge then heard a gunshot. He saw an Iron Order member holding a handgun in his right hand with his right arm extended. According to Eldridge, he heard people shouting, “Put your gun away”. The Iron Order member then dropped his arm and pointed his weapon at the ground, says Eldridge. Eldridge says he reported what he saw to authorities on the scene. Eldridge then called 911 and reported what he saw.
http://www.motorcycleprofilingproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2016-02-01_14-09-48.jpg

Eldridge’s account is validated by this photo taken by a Council of Clubs participant that happened to be present when the conflict began. This photo was taken following the first shot fired, the source says. The photo shows a member of the Iron Order moving away from the crowd holding a gun in his right hand.

The gun is pointed forward. Eldridge has confirmed that the man in this photo is the same man he saw with a gun extended in his right hand. Eldridge says this man “is the same guy I saw.” This is also the same man identified by eyewitnesses, as reported by many media sources, as the member of the Iron Order that was questioned by police following the shooting.

In another photo provided by the same Council of Clubs participant, this same man, following the shooting, is pictured with another Iron Order member (who appears to be posing) and two law enforcement officers. He is not in handcuffs and is in fact being allowed to use a cell phone even though he is suspected of firing shots.

http://www.motorcycleprofilingproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2016-02-01_14-10-27.jpg


Stephen Stubbs, an attorney for the Mongols Motorcycle Club, stated that members of the Iron Order is predominately made up of police officers and taunted members of the Mongols into an argument that escalated into violence that led to the fatal shooting of a Mongols member.

John C. Whitfield, a lawyer and Iron Order member, confirmed to the Denver Post that Iron Order members include L.E.O.’s. Relating to this specific shooting, Whitfield told the Denver AP, “a Colorado Department of Corrections officer fired his gun during a weekend brawl at a Denver motorcycle show that left one dead and seven others injured.”
The Iron Order Motorcycle Club has been involved in a laundry list of confrontations around the country with other motorcycle clubs that have resulted in violence or death. For example, on June 26, 2014 Florida State Attorney Angela Corey refused to charge Iron Order prospect Kristopher Stone after he shot and killed Black Pistons patch holder Zachariah Tipton in Jacksonville Beach. Corey outrageously ruled the killing was justifiable homicide even though the Iron Order member shot the unarmed Black Pistons motorcycle club member in the face while only a few feet apart.

Iron Order members have not been held accountable for any of the violence or killings that they have been involved in. So far, the same holds true for the incident in Colorado. Police have told the Denver AP that “they have made no arrests and a Department of Corrections spokeswoman did not immediately return calls for comment.”
The Iron Order, which is an off-duty law enforcement officer based motorcycle club, is identified by the ATF to be an “Outlaw Motorcycle Gang.” (See, The ATF Report on OMG’s and the Military, 2014)

The Council of Clubs has obtained and reviewed intelligence that confirms that the Iron Order repeatedly diminishes the relationship between law enforcement and the community they are intended to serve and protect.

According to a 1% club member that was present and has attended the expo for the past 15 years,“There has never been a confrontation, so much as a fistfight. And many 1% organizations have attended including the Hells Angels, Sons of Silence, Bandidos, Outlaws, Mongols, and many others. There has never been a problem until a law enforcement club showed up. Never. It would be against an unwritten code.”
The Council of Clubs believes that law enforcement clubs involved in confrontations with motorcycle clubs are completely inconsistent with the intended mission of law enforcement and should not be condoned or protected by professional law enforcement and other government officials from culpability.

According to another member of a 1% motorcycle club present at the expo, “local and federal authorities that responded to the incident acted in a professional and respectful manor. Authorities contained the crime scene and did not harass or detain members of other motorcycle clubs that were present. Major 1% clubs evacuated the area to allow law enforcement to do their job. Although the expo was later canceled, initially the owner of the venue and law enforcement authorities invited uninvolved clubs back to the expo.”
The National Council of Clubs has a heightened concern with the general demeanor of some law enforcement member motorcycle clubs. The repeated public displays of violence by members of the Iron Order, combined with the conflict they infuse within society, as compared to the intended mission of law enforcement, should be a concern to all citizens, professional law enforcement and government officials everywhere.

The National Council of Clubs will continue to access information related to this incident and will stand by, ready for further comment.



Contact Information:
All inquiries should be emailed to media@councilofclubs.org (media@councilofclubs.org)and addressed to:
David Devereaux- Spokesperson -OR-
Jerry Theophilopoulos- Legal Counsel

[roberth]

Huh, no preferential treatment there.

[Irving]

Wow, in before the lock.

EDIT: That wasn't directed at roberth's post.

[Great-Kazoo]

In another photo provided by the same Council of Clubs participant, this same man, following the shooting, is pictured with another Iron Order member (who appears to be posing) and two law enforcement officers. He is not in handcuffs and is in fact being allowed to use a cell phone even though he is suspected of firing shots.

Maybe he's calling his attorney


taunted members of the Mongols into an argument that escalated into violence that led to the fatal shooting of a Mongols member.

BOO Fucking HOO. They're making fun of me. Fucking times have sure changed.. It's ok to intimidate someone. BUT.................... if someone looks at you . You get your butt chaffed.

Now if said IO wasn't man enough to back his play w/out a gun. He's fucked and deserves to be

[ray1970]

Now if said IO wasn't man enough to back his play w/out a gun. He's fucked and deserves to be


If that really is him in the photos he looks like the pilsburry dough boy.

[Great-Kazoo]

If that really is him in the photos he looks like the pilsburry dough boy.

Some .orgs recruit big guys as cannon fodder. Big on brawn slow on uptake. Just sayin. Either way it's a shitty thing when THE MC Event (one of it not ) the largest, gets shut down due to some chest thumping, posturing costumes.

Mother fucker. You wear the patch, you roll with it.
Handle your shit outside, away from posers and wannabe's. Give or take the beating. Walk away like a man, not a corpse

[cstone]

Handle your shit outside, away from posers and wannabe's. Give or take the beating. Walk away like a man, not a corpse

How many of life's problems would be solved with such simple advice?

When did MCs develop a lobbying arm (Council of Clubs) and have lawyers representing them?

[BPTactical]

When did MCs develop a lobbying arm (Council of Clubs) and have lawyers representing them?

When the first club incorporated and became a "Business".
Hells Angels IIRC.

[Great-Kazoo]

When the first club incorporated and became a "Business".
Hells Angels IIRC.

LOCAL 81. HA and all HA related items are .......................COPYRIGHT & TRADEMARK protected. Big Red machine, Local 81, Red & White, World Wide etc. "They" had an Idea and it's paid off. As it gets warmer, check out those Red & White sneakers, YEP HA Paraphernalia.

[Great-Kazoo]

Huh, no preferential treatment there.

Look at that picture. NOW flash back to the MEDIA camera's snapping, video whirling. If anyone remembers That guy... Was shown being escorted out in bracelets with a serious number of LE's surrounding him. That pic of him with another "club" member and 2 cops. IMO that was or may have been taken earlier in the day.
I find it hard to believe (hypothetically) IF said person was the POI. with all the security there around him. At the hospital etc. Why is this guy staandign there alone? seems suspicious.

Of course it would not be the first time i might have been incorrect

[Great-Kazoo]

When the first club incorporated and became a "Business".
Hells Angels IIRC.

Also after the DPD paid $25K ?? to the denver chapter for "harassment" and other assorted lawyeresque words.

[Martinjmpr]

I'm still a little mind-blowed about the notion of a "law enforcement outlaw club." [facepalm]

How is membership in an "outlaw motorcycle gang" not grounds for being fired from your LE job? :confused:

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm still a little mind-blowed about the notion of a "law enforcement outlaw club." [facepalm]

How is membership in an "outlaw motorcycle gang" not grounds for being fired from your LE job? :confused:

Diversity ?

[hurley842002]

I'm still a little mind-blowed about the notion of a "law enforcement outlaw club." [facepalm]

How is membership in an "outlaw motorcycle gang" not grounds for being fired from your LE job? :confused:

They would have to know about it first...

[Great-Kazoo]

They would have to know about it first...

With the amount of surveillance one supposedly has on OMG's, it wouldn't be hard to review photos. Maybe they're the domestic terrorist and not returning veterans?

[Martinjmpr]

They would have to know about it first...

So cops don't have to periodically do background checks after they're hired? In the Army I had to update my clearance every 5 years.


With the amount of surveillance one supposedly has on OMG's, it wouldn't be hard to review photos. Maybe they're the domestic terrorist and not returning veterans?

Yeah, if the ATF is saying this is an outlaw gang and has LEOs in it, shouldn't the ATF be providing those agencies with a list of known or suspected members? Seems like a pretty easy thing to do, ATF provides the list, cop/gang member gets called into the chief's/sheriif's office. Show him surveillance photo in gang cut. "Is this you?" "Yes." "Turn in your badge and gun. You're fired."

[hurley842002]

So cops don't have to periodically do background checks after they're hired? In the Army I had to update my clearance every 5 years.



Yeah, if the ATF is saying this is an outlaw gang and has LEOs in it, shouldn't the ATF be providing those agencies with a list of known or suspected members? Seems like a pretty easy thing to do, ATF provides the list, cop/gang member gets called into the chief's/sheriif's office. Show him surveillance photo in gang cut. "Is this you?" "Yes." "Turn in your badge and gun. You're fired."

Some agencies do periodic background checks, some don't. As it pertains to the guy in the shooting, it's the DOC, the only time his background would come into question after initial clearance, is if he got into trouble after being hired.

[Irving]

Some agencies do periodic background checks, some don't. As it pertains to the guy in the shooting, it's the DOC, the only time his background would come into question after initial clearance, is if he got into trouble after being hired.

Like if he murdered someone?

[hurley842002]

Like if he murdered someone?

That would do it, but I'll reserve comments like that until all the facts come out. Either way the guy is an idiot, your job doesn't stop when your shift is over, and part of your job is sound judgement in the company you keep.

[gnihcraes]

Agency I work for does a background during job title changes or position changes. I'm not sure what they would do if an existing employee doesn't pass all of the sudden? Do you keep your old job position or what?

We're obviously told to Notify management if something happens on a personal level. DUI, court case and various things like that.

[ray1970]

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?

[Irving]

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?

Don't start none, won't be none?

[kidicarus13]

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me.

C.R.S. 16-2.5-135. Executive director of the department of corrections - warden -
corrections officer. The executive director of the department of corrections, a warden, a
corrections officer employed by the department of corrections, or other department of corrections
employee assigned by the executive director, is a peace officer while engaged in the performance
of his or her duties pursuant to title 17, C.R.S., whose primary authority is the supervision of
persons in the custody or confinement of the department of corrections and who may be certified
by the P.O.S.T. board.

[ray1970]

C.R.S. 16-2.5-135. Executive director of the department of corrections - warden -
corrections officer. The executive director of the department of corrections, a warden, a
corrections officer employed by the department of corrections, or other department of corrections
employee assigned by the executive director, is a peace officer while engaged in the performance
of his or her duties pursuant to title 17, C.R.S., whose primary authority is the supervision of
persons in the custody or confinement of the department of corrections and who may be certified
by the P.O.S.T. board.
So, technically a "peace officer"? But technically still not "law enforcement"?

[Great-Kazoo]

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?

ALL OF THEM once sentenced,. there's sexual assault, murder, drug possession (enforcement ) talking someone out of killing them self, even Domestic Violence. Of a different sort.


So, technically a "peace officer"? But technically still not "law enforcement"?

I hear that every so often. Let me ask you and others this

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them.
They wear a uniform, are P.O.S.T certified, attend an academy, same BG check as "those real cops" but to you. Not really a cop, why is that?

That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk in the military really isn't a soldier, marine etc, since they didn't see combat.

A uniform's a uniform. it's how one conducts & carries them self in & out of uniform that counts.

[gnihcraes]

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them... That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk...

sounds like a probation officer.

[Great-Kazoo]

sounds like a probation officer.

Yeah it does. Once they're away from the public's eye, someone has to handle the shitheads of society.

[Irving]

ALL OF THEM once sentenced,. there's sexual assault, murder, drug possession (enforcement ) talking someone out of killing them self, even Domestic Violence. Of a different sort.



I hear that every so often. Let me ask you and others this

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them.
They wear a uniform, are P.O.S.T certified, attend an academy, same BG check as "those real cops" but to you. Not really a cop, why is that?

That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk in the military really isn't a soldier, marine etc, since they didn't see combat.

A uniform's a uniform. it's how one conducts & carries them self in & out of uniform that counts.

Just don't go calling meter maids LEOs.

[hurley842002]

DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?

With the exception of a few crimes (car theft and the like), everything that happens on the street happens in prison. It's a city behind razor wire, and all crimes are punishable with the serious ones being sent to the DA just like on the street.

[hurley842002]

ALL OF THEM once sentenced,. there's sexual assault, murder, drug possession (enforcement ) talking someone out of killing them self, even Domestic Violence. Of a different sort.



I hear that every so often. Let me ask you and others this

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them.
They wear a uniform, are P.O.S.T certified, attend an academy, same BG check as "those real cops" but to you. Not really a cop, why is that?

That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk in the military really isn't a soldier, marine etc, since they didn't see combat.

A uniform's a uniform. it's how one conducts & carries them self in & out of uniform that counts.

Good post.

[Ronin13]

So cops don't have to periodically do background checks after they're hired? In the Army I had to update my clearance every 5 years.

There are reporting requirements when a LEO is arrested and/or charged with a crime. I know my supervisor is notified if I get a speeding ticket (hasn't happened, yet :D ). If a LEO is arrested, they are put into segregation while in custody in a jail, for their protection. There is no need for most agencies to do a background check after hire unless something comes up, and due to CO POST guidelines, any certified employee facing charges has their agency notified and usually an IA investigation becomes necessary, even before actual charges are filed.


DOC isn't really "law enforcement" if you ask me. I mean, which laws is it they actively enforce?


ALL OF THEM once sentenced,. there's sexual assault, murder, drug possession (enforcement ) talking someone out of killing them self, even Domestic Violence. Of a different sort.



I hear that every so often. Let me ask you and others this

How can one say they're not really LE when they put them self in danger WITHOUT a gun 24/7.. Walking among convicts who at any moment could run a knife of some sort through your ribs, cut your throat, throw feces on you. Even put a contract out on them.
They wear a uniform, are P.O.S.T certified, attend an academy, same BG check as "those real cops" but to you. Not really a cop, why is that?

That's like IMO saying someone behind a desk in the military really isn't a soldier, marine etc, since they didn't see combat.

A uniform's a uniform. it's how one conducts & carries them self in & out of uniform that counts.
Not entirely accurate. DOC employees (IE: Prison Guards) are not required to be POST Certified. Even if they are, to maintain certification they have to undergo a mandatory number of hours of in-service training every year (new POST guidelines as of this year). I don't know how DOC would do this as most of their employees aren't certified, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the certified members receive in-service training to maintain a certification they don't really need for the performance of their jobs (which includes firearms, driving, arrest control, and legal updates). Also, considering that non-certified LE (like detention specialists in county jails, DOC, etc) are not allowed to make lawful arrests, calling them LE is really a misnomer. As a certified and sworn LEO I do not consider DOC employees to be cops. I appreciate the work they do for the crappy pay they receive and the harsh realities they often face with sentenced felons, often dangerous felons, but cops they are not.

[Great-Kazoo]

Not entirely accurate. DOC employees (IE: Prison Guards) are not required to be POST Certified. Even if they are, to maintain certification they have to undergo a mandatory number of hours of in-service training every year (new POST guidelines as of this year). I don't know how DOC would do this as most of their employees aren't certified, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the certified members receive in-service training to maintain a certification they don't really need for the performance of their jobs (which includes firearms, driving, arrest control, and legal updates). Also, considering that non-certified LE (like detention specialists in county jails, DOC, etc) are not allowed to make lawful arrests, calling them LE is really a misnomer. As a certified and sworn LEO I do not consider DOC employees to be cops. I appreciate the work they do for the crappy pay they receive and the harsh realities they often face with sentenced felons, often dangerous felons, but cops they are not.

In CO perhaps. Elsewhere it's part of the academy.

Other states it's allowed.

[hurley842002]

There are reporting requirements when a LEO is arrested and/or charged with a crime. I know my supervisor is notified if I get a speeding ticket (hasn't happened, yet :D ). If a LEO is arrested, they are put into segregation while in custody in a jail, for their protection. There is no need for most agencies to do a background check after hire unless something comes up, and due to CO POST guidelines, any certified employee facing charges has their agency notified and usually an IA investigation becomes necessary, even before actual charges are filed.




Not entirely accurate. DOC employees (IE: Prison Guards) are not required to be POST Certified. Even if they are, to maintain certification they have to undergo a mandatory number of hours of in-service training every year (new POST guidelines as of this year). I don't know how DOC would do this as most of their employees aren't certified, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the certified members receive in-service training to maintain a certification they don't really need for the performance of their jobs (which includes firearms, driving, arrest control, and legal updates). Also, considering that non-certified LE (like detention specialists in county jails, DOC, etc) are not allowed to make lawful arrests, calling them LE is really a misnomer. As a certified and sworn LEO I do not consider DOC employees to be cops. I appreciate the work they do for the crappy pay they receive and the harsh realities they often face with sentenced felons, often dangerous felons, but cops they are not.

Once again the local SME on all things LEO is wrong. I believe the majority of the GK's experience as it pertains to DOC is with the California system, in which they ARE POST certified. All CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, do qualify on arrest control and firearms, and in Colorado are considered peace officers, so rather or not you want them lumped into your hollier than thou attitude, isn't really up to you. I no longer work for the DOC, but won't forget where I came from. Also, they haven't been called prison guards since before I started, which was about 11 years ago (you were probably complaining about the family business), so please have some respect.

[Martinjmpr]

My vague recollection is that DOC employees are "peace officers" by law so that if an inmate assaults them then in the jail or prison, the charge is the more serious "assaulting a peace officer" charge as opposed to the less serious simple assault charge. I think there may have been an instance (possibly not even in CO) where a prison guard or jail corrrections officer was assaulted by an inmate and because the officer was not formally a "peace officer" as defined by state law, they could not apply the more serious charge.

Here in CO it seems like jail officers are all sworn deputies, i.e. LEOs just like patrol deputies, but I know in other states like NC, it is not uncommon for county jails to be staffed by non-sworn "Corrections Officers" who do not have arrest powers and are not considered "LEO's" by state law.

[cstone]

This incident did not happen in the shooter's work environment or during work hours and would be considered an off-duty shooting.

Let the investigation take it's course. Regardless of the outcome of the criminal investigation, I would expect a civil suit against the shooter and probably his employer.

Do not let this thread take a personal tone. No one here was present and to the best of my knowledge, no one here is involved in the investigation. This leads me to believe that everyone here is expressing opinions. Be civil or this thread will be closed.

[Irving]

I bet Tom Joad was around for the incident.

[Great-Kazoo]

My vague recollection is that DOC employees are "peace officers" by law so that if an inmate assaults them then in the jail or prison, the charge is the more serious "assaulting a peace officer" charge as opposed to the less serious simple assault charge. I think there may have been an instance (possibly not even in CO) where a prison guard or jail corrrections officer was assaulted by an inmate and because the officer was not formally a "peace officer" as defined by state law, they could not apply the more serious charge.

Here in CO it seems like jail officers are all sworn deputies, i.e. LEOs just like patrol deputies, but I know in other states like NC, it is not uncommon for county jails to be staffed by non-sworn "Corrections Officers" who do not have arrest powers and are not considered "LEO's" by state law.

Larimer cty jail LCSO's. Unless somethings changed A County Sheriff is a LE.
The Sheriff’s Office is currently the largest single agency in Larimer County government. The Agency performs most of the peace keeping and emergency services for the unincorporated sections of Larimer County, and maintains the only detention center in the county. The Sheriff's Office currently employs over 430 people in over 50 different job classifications.


Now weld cty has sheriffs AND "DETENTION SPECIALIST" Most hires start at the jail and rotate out after X time, as job openings become available.

So it's clear there's no standard / uniformity when it comes to job description and or classification for DOC in CO. Go Figure.

Looks like everyone is correct,to a point.

[hurley842002]

This incident did not happen in the shooter's work environment or during work hours and would be considered an off-duty shooting.

Let the investigation take it's course. Regardless of the outcome of the criminal investigation, I would expect a civil suit against the shooter and probably his employer.

Do not let this thread take a personal tone. No one here was present and to the best of my knowledge, no one here is involved in the investigation. This leads me to believe that everyone here is expressing opinions. Be civil or this thread will be closed.

My apologies, apparently a nerve was struck on my end.

[Martinjmpr]

Larimer cty jail LCSO's. Unless somethings changed A County Sheriff is a LE.
The Sheriff’s Office is currently the largest single agency in Larimer County government. The Agency performs most of the peace keeping and emergency services for the unincorporated sections of Larimer County, and maintains the only detention center in the county. The Sheriff's Office currently employs over 430 people in over 50 different job classifications.


Now weld cty has sheriffs AND "DETENTION SPECIALIST" Most hires start at the jail and rotate out after X time, as job openings become available.

So it's clear there's no standard / uniformity when it comes to job description and or classification for DOC in CO. Go Figure.

Looks like everyone is correct,to a point.

And to further muddy the waters - there are the privately run prisons. I assume that like the other detention facilities, these employees are considered "peace officers" while on duty but only on duty, even though their paychecks come from a private company?

[Ronin13]

Once again the local SME on all things LEO is wrong. I believe the majority of the GK's experience as it pertains to DOC is with the California system, in which they ARE POST certified. All CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, do qualify on arrest control and firearms, and in Colorado are considered peace officers, so rather or not you want them lumped into your hollier than thou attitude, isn't really up to you. I no longer work for the DOC, but won't forget where I came from. Also, they haven't been called prison guards since before I started, which was about 11 years ago (you were probably complaining about the family business), so please have some respect.
After you... You can check the attitude at the door, sir, I have nothing but respect for DOC employees. And to correct, I was wrong, POST Certified CDOC employees maintain their certification, but it is not required to get hired there. So on that I was mistaken.

As far as being peace officers is concerned, I understand per statute they are recognized as such, but as far as not having arrest and enforcement action powers is concerned, they are different (non-Certified individuals). Doesn't mean I don't respect them and what they do.

Here in CO it seems like jail officers are all sworn deputies, i.e. LEOs just like patrol deputies, but I know in other states like NC, it is not uncommon for county jails to be staffed by non-sworn "Corrections Officers" who do not have arrest powers and are not considered "LEO's" by state law.
It varies from county to county, at least as far as certified (meaning POST certified) personnel go. Weld has some deputies in their jail who are non-certified, and some that are- I'm not sure the numbers or makeup. My agency all the deputies in the jail are certified, but there are also detention specialists who do not work in direct contact with inmates, they work in the towers that manage the different modules.