View Full Version : Travis Haley ND? More Interwebz Firearms Drama.
Within the past few days there's been a bit of a shitstorm brewing over what may, or may not have been an ND on the part of Travis Haley, of Haley Strategic, formerly of Magpul Dynamics, Blackwater, and USMC Force Recon.
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All of this supposedly brought up by Panteao Productions, a Firearms Instructor film company that has had a falling out of sorts with Mr. Haley a few years ago.
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The President of Panteao Productions, a Mr. Coelho doesn't have the most honest past.
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That said here's the video Panteao Productions released this morning.
https://youtu.be/xs83TE7HJrY
What do you, the learned forum members think?
I had not seen the video but looked for the uncut version on Utoob. If you are going to play with triggers and safeties on loaded weapons, having the weapon on a range, pointed in a safe direction, and prepared to fire is the best way to go. Haley was good up to not having his ears on.
He probably would have been better to demonstrate on an unloaded weapon, while exercising the same precautions as with a loaded weapon.
No one is so good they can't make a mistake. I never learn from a mistake unless I recognize it as a mistake.
Be safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs83TE7HJrY
OMG burn him at the stake! [Sarcasm2]
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2016, 21:03
OMG burn him at the stake! [Sarcasm2]
AYE HE'S A WITCH, BERN HIM
blacklabel
02-08-2016, 21:04
I guess I should take down my Haley shrine now.
Perhaps better done unloaded, but then against it demonstrates all the more while those techniques are flawed. So far to reach that block, easy when moving or under stress to slip off of it.
Shit happens, but I'd give him this one given how otherwise squared he is vs many other video gun celebs.
Point well made in a safe environment. A loaded discharge definitely made more of an impact.
Social media is kinda like playing chess with a pigeon.
Social media is kinda like playing chess with a pigeon.
It's fun until animal control sees you doing it?
It's fun until animal control sees you doing it?
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Any shot in a training environment without proper PPE (eyes, ears, etc) is an ND. End of story.
Way to ruin it for me. I thought I had never had an ND. But, I once fired a shot at the range without my hearing protection by accident. I didn't consider it a negligent discharge at the time since I was properly behind the rifle and fired an intentional shot at a target down range.
I haven't watched the video, I was showing a friend how to use a gun, check safe, ect. Told her to always keep the gun pointed down range pulled the magazine out and told her you can make sure it's empty buy pulling the trigger like there is a round still. Thought it was empty pulled the trigger (still no mag) and bang, one round left in the chamber thought I shot all five rounds and my pistols slide didn't lock most of the time. So since I was wasn't expecting a discharge but I was pointing at a target down range is that considered a nd? Since then I pull the mag, rack the slide and then pull the trigger while pointing down range.
Any shot in a training environment without proper PPE (eyes, ears, etc) is an ND. End of story.
I'm not sure I buy this one. I certainly see where you are coming from, but I can think of a few scenarios where there is value gained in not using standard PPE.
I haven't watched the video, I was showing a friend how to use a gun, check safe, ect. Told her to always keep the gun pointed down range pulled the magazine out and told her you can make sure it's empty buy pulling the trigger like there is a round still. Thought it was empty pulled the trigger (still no mag) and bang, one round left in the chamber thought I shot all five rounds and my pistols slide didn't lock most of the time. So since I was wasn't expecting a discharge but I was pointing at a target down range is that considered a nd? Since then I pull the mag, rack the slide and then pull the trigger while pointing down range.
Yes, it is.
And as you've stated, you learned a valuable lesson.
IMO, this is one of the true values of training. Violating any safety rule is not good, but when all of the safety rules are followed, violation of just one rule alone will rarely result in the tragedy we all hope to avoid. I do not advocate that anyone learn by violating safety rules, but when something like this occurs; and as long as human beings are involved, accidents, negligence, dumb stuff, will happen, first we have to recognize what happened, determine why it happened, and then let that failure be forever imprinted on our brain so that we do not make that mistake again AND we recognize the chain of events that lead to those mistakes and assist others in avoiding those same errors.
If everyone who did something wrong lost an eye, we would all be blind long before adulthood.
Be safe.
Yep. ND. But at least you were following the other 3 rules of gun safety so you got a cheap lesson with no harm done
^^^ that's for sure, it was definitely a learning experience that I haven't forgotten, remember it like it was yesterday even though it was over a decade ago.
If you're shooting suppressed w/o ear pro is it still a ND?
If you're shooting suppressed w/o ear pro is it still a ND?
According to post #10, yes.
If you're shooting suppressed w/o ear pro is it still a ND?
I think then it might be an AD.
Manipulating a loaded firearm and the safety off while showing how NOT to retain your booger picker to prevent a ND/AD is retarded. He could have done all of that with an unload firearm and achieved the same result for the video.
As for his ear pro being off during that situation I can understand why. I doubt that anyone would like to be YELLED AT WHILE SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT CRAP WITH THEIR EAR PRO ON. We have all been to the range and experienced that exact same situation where your buddy leaves his ear pro on and is talking to you louder than normal.
What I don't understand is why he isn't wearing good in ear electronic hearing protection that allows you to hear and speak at normal conversational volumes but also provides hearing protection when your booger picker slips onto the trigger and an unexpected BOOM happens.
If you're shooting suppressed w/o ear pro is it still a ND?
The suppressor IS the ear pro. [Beer]
...What I don't understand is why he isn't wearing good in ear electronic hearing protection that allows you to hear and speak at normal conversational volumes but also provides hearing protection when your booger picker slips onto the trigger and an unexpected BOOM happens.
MSA Sordins are some of the best electronic ear pro money can buy. Which is what he is wearing, or rather NOT wearing in this video.
I am talking about IN EAR hearing protection (hearing aid style) not over ear Muffs. That way he can still look like a movie star and not be burdened with taking off and on his hearing protection 987234923874 times because its too fricken hot to leave them on.
Great-Kazoo
02-09-2016, 19:06
I am talking about IN EAR hearing protection (hearing aid style) not over ear Muffs. That way he can still look like a movie star and not be burdened with taking off and on his hearing protection 987234923874 times because its too fricken hot to leave them on.
Probably due to his "authorized" product not available for general sale, yet.
Either way, it happens. In his case it's forever an internet meme
[Sarcasm2]
Hey did you guys hear what Travis Haley's camera man said right after the shot?
Neither did he!
Grant H.
02-10-2016, 08:53
Dang, if shooting without eyes and ears is an ND, then the military must be darn near nothing but ND's...
Oh, wait...
bobbyfairbanks
02-10-2016, 22:50
Any shot in a training environment without proper PPE (eyes, ears, etc) is an ND. End of story.
Fiddle sticks your silly
Any shot in a training environment without proper PPE (eyes, ears, etc) is an ND. End of story.
Legally and logically, this simply isn't true.
Rhino0427
02-19-2016, 15:55
He didn't have ears on. Beyond that it was a mistake, not a "gun sin". Weapon was oriented downrange and any potential problems were clear (as best I could see). Its regrettable, but it wouldn't be a "mistake" if it wasn't. Anyone who's never, ever had an "oh crap" moment with their weapon is either: perfect, a neophyte, a liar, or only uses their guns for decorative purposes. Let the perfect among us cast the first stone...
^^^ good points, well said!
bobbyfairbanks
02-20-2016, 07:51
He didn't have ears on. Beyond that it was a mistake, not a "gun sin". Weapon was oriented downrange and any potential problems were clear (as best I could see). Its regrettable, but it wouldn't be a "mistake" if it wasn't. Anyone who's never, ever had an "oh crap" moment with their weapon is either: perfect, a neophyte, a liar, or only uses their guns for decorative purposes. Let the perfect among us cast the first stone...
Well said.
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