View Full Version : Is .380 even worth carrying?
I know there are a number of different rules of thought on this subject.
I did a quick search and didn't yield any results so I apologize if this has been covered before.
According to the famed Doc Roberts list, there are no .380 loads that are sufficient self defense loads.
It seems to be a pretty anemic round...although with offerings like the LCP, I would be hard pressed to think of a situation where I couldn't have a gun on me at all times (barring any prohibited areas).
It seems like the .380 only really serves the purpose of being a "Rule One" gun...being that you have a gun.
My dad has an LCP and thing is a PITA to shoot. It's not fun, I can't group all that well with it, and ammo is pretty expensive for what it is.
What are your thoughts?
spqrzilla
02-26-2016, 16:57
For a long time, .380 ACP was the caliber for subcompacts but now that there are 9mm subcompacts like the Ruger LC9, its harder to make a case for it. However, if a .380 is what you have, see Rule One.
If that is all you have, or have left after emptying your primary, then "yes" a .380 is worth carrying.
cmailliard
02-26-2016, 17:29
Carry a gun you can and will carry! It is all bout Rule #1!
I would love to carry my Glock 23 all the time, but the fact, is I just can't. For times when I can't, I bring the Glock 42. When I am feely really frosty, I bring both. I would like to have a 43, but just cannot justify another Glock purchase yet.
Yes the LCP is a pain in the ass to shoot, I have a P3AT and ran through a shoot house with it and my finger kept sliding up in front of the barrel. I also shredded the top of my right thumb from the slide. In a square box, shooting is iffy, in a dynamic situation is downright ugly.
Rule #1 - Bring a gun
Rule #76 - No excuses, play like a champion!
3beansalad
02-26-2016, 17:38
Yes, .380 is worth carrying. And there are effective rounds available. I found testing from Lucky Gunner very valuable when choosing self defense ammo in various calibers. What I carry depends on the situation, but I have carried a Glock 42 when I needed a very discrete pistol. And felt completely comfortable with the choice.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
I have a Glock 26 and it really doesn't get much smaller than that in 9mm. I was debating a 43 or LCP. The 43 is the same size (-ish) except for the width. The LCP would be able to slip into a pocket quite nicely and would be far less expensive (they are going for $200 all over the place).
I would likely have better performance with the 43...but the LCP might fill the niche of ALWAYS having a firearm on me regardless of circumstances.
Then again, besides the width if I had a 43 I could almost just as easily have the 26.
I fear you are underestimating the importance of width.
I have a 26, an M&P9c and many others. Single stack are so much easier to conceal, and comfortable to carry regardless of situation. Fills rule 1 for sure.
I'd carry an AR10 if if wasn't for the length and height. Width is about the same as the G26. Silly argument ignoring some dimensions of size but not the others. Yeah this is silly. But a 1911 is thinner than a G26, but taller and longer. Should we say that is just as good as well?
I have single stack 40s that are far more comfortable for all day carry than my G26
68Charger
02-26-2016, 18:18
I agree with rule#1... would I carry .380? hell no, but I'm 6'3", 230#, and at least 'look' in decent shape... the kind of threats I would face will not be stopped by .380...
but if you're 4'10", 90#, then .380 will be a match for many of the a-holes that would prey upon you... and if you can control .380 and are comfortable with it, then go with that...
I don't like .380, but I'm not going to say it's worthless.. there are .380 +P rounds that are close to 9mm performance... maybe put those 1-2 rounds back in the mag- if regular .380 rounds don't stop the threat, you have more in the mag that can.
Zundfolge
02-26-2016, 18:34
We're living in a golden age of carry guns. First off there are some new .380 loads that perform significantly better than the wimpy .380 ball that we're used to but at the same time there are so many 9x19, .40 and .45 guns available that are smaller than the stalwart .380s of the past (like the Walther PPK, Sig P230/232, etc).
If you want a freakin' tiny gun that fits in a pocket real well, then a .380 isn't a bad choice (and is a significantly better choice today than even a decade ago).
At any rate, a couple thoughts.
-You're not going to find many critics of the .380 that will volunteer to stand in front of one.
-According to the FBI the most common handgun caliber used in homicides is .22lr ... which is significantly weaker than .380
The Norseman
02-26-2016, 18:57
-You're not going to find many critics of the .380 that will volunteer to stand in front of one.
This. The G42 is a great summer carry that all but disappears. Shoots better than a G43 (for me), and is leagues better than an LC9.
Sent from my Id.
I usually have both my 1911 and my G42 in the truck at all times, and I will grab which ever one better fits the place and situation that I am going into. I would always rather have my 1911 on my side but there are times and places that my G42 is more appropriate. I go into a lot of job sites and plants when I'm on the road for work and almost all have a no firearms policy, as I refuse to travel without my weapon in my company truck, I go with the 42 as I can hide it away in the truck easier. Any gun is better than no gun, and if I can at least keep their head down and give myself time to distance myself from the situation than that's what matters.
Stand down range and let me know if .380 tickles or not
i will trust my life to my sig 238 and its 7 angry friends
Any situation that non LEO civilians will ever need a gun is much less likely than if you are a cop. Most civilian shoot outs involve criminals that don't expect there target's to even have a gun. So the smaller the gun the more likely you will have one with you. And for the average person just having something that makes that much noise may save your life. When bullets start flying most bad guys don't want to hang around to find out what caliber you carry. They'll be checking for holes as they run the other way.
I never feel comfortable anytime I don't have a gun. As far as a G26 feeling the same size as a G43, somebody must have big pockets or baggy pants. I still carry an old PF9 because it feels smaller than my G43. And when I need smaller I still carry my P3AT because my G42 feels big. All of those guns and my PM40 feel, to me, significantly smaller than my G27.
I actually feel fairly well armed with a 380, but, would I rather have my G40 when the SHTF, absolutely. I still have two NAA mini's because I would rather have a fire breathing 22lr than nothing. Very few people would ever pick the 380 as there only gun, but it is very capable in your carry rotation and an extremely capable BUG.
ColoradoMinuteMan
02-26-2016, 22:33
The .380 is capable of taking human life, but it doesn't have the "stopping power" of cartridges with heavier projectiles or higher velocity, unless you get a shot to the head, heart or lungs. Often when you hear of defensive engagements with .380 ACP you hear of the perp fleeing the scene, being rushed to or dropped off a hospital, sometimes living or sometimes eventually dying. I often think of it as a weapon to deter more than a weapon to stop. For those who are just not able or comfortable enough to use something more it has value at a deterrent. An example of this is my wife. Even though she is in decent shape, she has some upper back issues that make her very recoil sensitive and gives her a weak grip. .380 ACP is the most powerful cartridge she feels comfortable regularly shooting. Rather than giving up and saying "if you can't pack X you may as well give up and let them rape me" we play the averages. Most people who aren't on PCP or aren't highly motivated super soldiers are looking for the "easy win." A couple of .380 ACP +P hollow points to the torso and a high percentage of people will be slowed down, weakened, or deterred. Again, it may not stop everyone, but we're playing averages here and it will stop more people than a whistle and pepper spray.
Zundfolge
02-26-2016, 23:09
As far as a G26 feeling the same size as a G43, somebody must have big pockets or baggy pants.
For pocket carry you're correct, however in an IWB holster on the belt I can't imagine being able to tell the difference (but keep in mind I'm known to occasionally CCW a full size CZ75 or a Dan Wesson 14-2, which is about the size of a 686). For pocket carry in jeans I think even the G43 is a bit large. I have enough trouble getting my wife's P3AT out of my jean pocket (of course whenever I'm pocket carrying I'm usually in a suit or at least slacks, which is easier to draw from). I can't imagine drawing a G43 from a pocket under stress. This is where tiny little .380 guns excel.
I actually feel fairly well armed with a 380, but, would I rather have my G40 when the SHTF, absolutely.
Let's be totally honest, if you ever find you need your side arm no matter what size pistol you carry you're going to wish it was an AR. :p
Many famous gunfighters fought and lived with the Colt 1851 Navy percussion revolver. It won many a gun fight. The .380 is very much the same.
Great-Kazoo
02-26-2016, 23:52
Carried a MAK in 380 for a few years. Had no issues with it being able to do the job if called upon.
SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT. 5 rounds of 380 will stop a perp when placed COM, then a 45 will in one's shoulder.
One who practices with a 22 is far superior to one who doesn't with a 45.
Is bigger better, sure. Is anything better than nothing, ABSOLUTELY . YMMV
Lots of good points being made here, fellas. Thanks for all the input.
Calculated
02-27-2016, 07:08
The .380 ACP is only 1.85mm shorter than 9mm Parabellum. The cartridge cases are remarkably similar, but not exact. I carry my LCP everywhere I go. Depending on my garb, I prefer to IWB my Glock 30SF. But it's always better to have something. I can guarantee if you hear the sound a .380 makes on steel at 20yds, you wouldn't want to be punched by one at point blank range. Is it the best round? Definitely not, but I can have my LCP in my Uncle Mike's sheath loosely in the pocket of a pair of workout shorts at the gas station and no one will know.
T. B. Turner
02-27-2016, 08:44
They have rounds now that make the 380 comparable to the 38. In the Sept. 2012 edition American Rifleman they did some tests. I have pics of the charts but for some reason the system would not allow me to post them.
Colorado Fatboy
02-27-2016, 09:44
My P3AT doesn't get carried much anymore, used to have it with me all the time. Since I got a Kahr PM9, that has become my go to gun. I will sometimes carry a G19, G27, or 1911 but not usually due to size. As others have said the P3AT is a PITA to shoot but it's doable with practice.
Funny story, a buddy of mine got a G42 and loved it, went shooting with him several times and he was pretty good with that gun. Then he bought into all the bigger is better BS and got a Springfield XD-S .45, he can't hit crap with that gun! I asked him would you rather have something you can shoot and hit your target or something you can't shoot but "it's bigger so it's better"
As for the .380 personally I carry FMJ in my P3AT, my research tells me that there is not enough energy for a JHP to properly expand. Others disagree with me but that is my opinion.
Self defense isn't supposed to be about how efficiently you can kill an attacker or threat, it's about defending yourself against that threat and making them stop the attack. A stopped, but still alive attacker leaking from several holes will probably be more in your favor than a very dead attacker with a gruesome wound from the latest, greatest zombie killer bullet. From a legal standpoint anyway.
If you handload, you can make your own .380 ammo with truncated cone FMJ's and max powder loads that will do the job nicely. It's widely accepted that .380 hollowpoints aren't as likely to penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs as FMJ bullets will, and flat-nosed bullets do more damage than round-nosed.
68Charger
02-27-2016, 10:58
It's definitely better than .32 acp or .25 auto... Those could arguably be ineffective with good spot placement, especially if they are wearing leather and/or winter clothing
DenverGP
02-27-2016, 12:38
Things that are "widely accepted" are not always correct. There are definitely better options for a tiny 380 than FMJ.
In the very comprehensive Ammo Quest 380 test, he found several .380 hollow point rounds that consistently penetrated decently, and consistently expanded fired out of his Taurus TCP 738 (2.8" barrel).
Several options with the Hornady XTP bullet performed very well, with the top 2 being:
Precision One .380 ACP 90 grain XTP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F79UUxDvv5o)
Fiocchi Extrema XTP(TM) 90-grain XTP JHP, part # 380XTP25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2YKzpYm9hY)
Lots of "big name" bullets performed horribly, like the Ranger, PDX, Critical Defense.
Here's the full final wrap-up video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts
If you hand load using the XTP bullet, be aware that the "Hornady Custom" loading of their XTP bullet was the fastest of all the XTP rounds he tried, and because they were moving faster, they expanded more, resulting in under penetration. So don't just assume that by hand loading some XTP bullets extra hot you'll get better performance.
It's definitely better than .32 acp or .25 auto... Those could arguably be ineffective with good spot placement, especially if they are wearing leather and/or winter clothing
I think good shot placement with a .25 or .32 may be in the eye or mouth. Somebody once told me if you shoot somebody with a 25 and they find out, they are going to pissed off.
You're not going to find many critics of the .380 that will volunteer to stand in front of one.
Please explain why a low opinion regarding the effectiveness of a caliber requires a willingness to be shot by said caliber.
No one doubts the 380 (or 32, 25, 22 and so on) can be effective man stoppers. Other options just perform better.
Would you carry a 22 short for daily carry? If not, are you willing to shot by a 22 short? Of course not. I don't want to get shot by a Red Rider BB gun. That doesn't mean I think BB guns are good defensive options.
I wouldn't want to be sprayed with a garden hose, but I wouldn't recommend carrying one either.
Hey, to hear tell it from the .45acp guys, a single shot .45 is better than a 6 round .380.
After watching my students with .22lr, .38spcl, .357magnum, .380, 9mm, .40s&w, and others, good luck with that. Seriously, get yourself a .22lr and practice a lot.
I carry a 9mm single stack. I don't feel I'm invincible, or under gunned. But, then again, I practice. A lot.
Everything else is just pi$$ing in the wind. My opinion only. Worth exactly what you paid for it.
My dad has an LCP and thing is a PITA to shoot. It's not fun, I can't group all that well with it, and ammo is pretty expensive for what it is.
I agree with your assessment of your dad's LCP. I have one and it isn't really a fun gun at the range. However, it's not such a bruiser that I can't practice enough to be competent with it. There are some grips that can be added to make it more comfortable to shoot but I don't need it to be comfortable. I need it to be small and light. And it does that extremely well. I have no use for a 380 that's as big and/or heavy as a small 9mm because then I'd just carry a small 9mm. The LCP is a fantastic option when the situation calls for a micro pistol or nothing at all. It's also a great backup.
Also, many people decide they want to start carrying a gun and go buy a monster before they figure out what kind of commitment it takes to work 30 to 45 ounces of gun into their wardrobe. A small gun like an LCP, 238, Tomcat etc are great options for those that are about to become people that carry sometimes rather than carry all the time.
Limited GM
02-27-2016, 16:59
Those that call pocket pistols "phone booth" guns, haven't bothered to learn the fundamentals.
Ive a LCP 380, bought off a member here. We took it to the range last week and shot a few mags. Below is the target at 50yd line. I went 5 for 6 and both friends went 1 for two having never shot it.
The only Ammo I like in 380 (far from have tried all) is the Rem 102 gr Golden Saber. I've shot it into wet newsprint and it expanded better than...get this, Hydro shocks from a .357 mag. YMMV.
64233
And heres a 25 yd group, bottom of the red.
64234
I have have to wonder, if anyone talking about these matters, ever does any actual research or relies on the writers, who last month, may have worked for better homes and gardens.
*and yes...id given a c-note if my bud had jerked a round into his Jeep.
I went and looked at some mouse guns today and really liked the sights/trigger of the Kahr CW380.
It seems like there may be some hit or miss issues with reliability though.
....it will stop more people than a whistle and pepper spray.
Not disagreeing at all here, but I personally think OC (pepper spray) is a great tool in the workbelt of self defence. I've done an OC instructor cert, and after being hit with it I fully believe that it is an amazing deterrent.
I am agreeing that a 380ACP is a good tool for self defense in certain situations. I am disagreeing that OC is a poor option. After coming *really* close to drawing down on a druggie after dark in a bad part of downtown Denver a few years back, and having no other good options on me, I now have OC on me whenever I have a gun. A less-lethal alternative that is incredibly effective, incredibly affordable and easily added to a standard carry-out is a thing I feel many who carry for defense neglect or fail to consider. I strongly believe that OC should be a part of the load-out for anyone who carries lethal means of defense, and for those that don't as well.
Long story short, I was in a crappy situation with a cracked out banger in a parking lot after dark and alone. The situation was one where drawing and employing lethal force would be questionable, and certainly debated by a jury. Not wanting to find out whether or not the dude had significant pain tolerance due to drug use, and not wanting to be in an altercation up close hand-to-hand, I perched my hand on my firearm IWB at the 4:30 position, and backed away towards the door to the building while he continued to slowly but consistently approach with obvious hostility. I was able to re-enter the building with my RFID badge and keep him on the other side of the door while I phoned police. The only thought in my mind was "If one of these guys can take 20 rounds while high on god-knows-what and keep attacking police while the drugs inhibit pain and decision making, what chance do I have with hand-to-hand against such an individual, and what are the odds he finds my firearm and uses it against me?? However, the situation wasn't immediately dire enough to draw and shoot. Had he started charging rapidly, without a weapon shown on himself, and without knowing what kind of drugs he was on I would have had a nasty court battle trying to prove need to use deadly force. Since then I have decided multiple options are better than limited options.
I've also had a 'ride the lightning' experience from a taser. And while incredibly effective for LEO, I don't like it for civilian use compared to OC. It is incredibly effective while being deployed, but a determined attacker can shake it off pretty quick once the juice has stopped. I find OC a much better alternative for defensive scenarios.
Great-Kazoo
02-27-2016, 20:53
For non lethal spray we like this product, they're casper wyo company. Their gel is nice, but the "spray" can stream up to 25/.In perfect weather conditions. In less then. Unlike a spray, this stuff still has a good stream going.
http://www.galls.com/mace-mk-iv-5-5-percent-pepper-spray
kidicarus13
02-27-2016, 21:22
I went and looked at some mouse guns today and really liked the sights/trigger of the Kahr CW380.
It seems like there may be some hit or miss issues with reliability though.
Get a CM9 and you won't have to worry about their reliability. I've owned a couple of P380's and I wouldn't trust my life on their reliability.
hurley842002
02-27-2016, 21:25
Get a CM9 and you won't have to worry about their reliability.
Agreed, I've owned 2 CM9 pistols, and both were awesome. Actually wouldn't mind another.
Bailey Guns
02-28-2016, 09:22
I'm in the "See Rule #1" camp.
I certainly think that some caliber options are better than others. On the other hand, there are some people who just can't handle larger calibers...not only the recoil but the added size and difficulty of manipulating the gun. If a small, .22 caliber revolver is something you feel comfortable and confident with, by all means carry it.
I've frequently recommended something along the lines of the tip-up barrel Beretta pistols for people who can't operate slides due to physical limits. Their option was carry something they could operate or don't carry. In a case like that I think it's better to have something...even a .22LR. I have one and carry it on admittedly rare occasions. I also have a NAA mini-revolver in .22Mag that I (infrequently, but sometimes) carry. Just depends on the situation.
I also think a lot has to do with the person's confidence and skills. The person who can, under the stresses of a lethal force encounter, put 6 or 7 rounds of .380 into the torso of a bad guy in 3 or 4 seconds is probably (not always, but probably) going to stop the fight. I don't think there's any question that some people are "better armed" with a .380 than others. The point of all that being, when the average person/crook is looking down the muzzle of a gun or dodging bullets headed their way, their first thought probably isn't going to be, "I wonder if that's just some punk-ass .380 he's shootin' at me?"
Almost 15 years on the street I saw lots of folks survive handgun wounds. None ever complained about being shot with too small a caliber. Almost all said they didn't wanna get shot again. There's plenty of evidence to suggest the mere presence of a gun is enough to deter a good percentage of potential attackers without a shot being fired.
This is such a subjective question that there isn't really a right answer. Oh...and I don't even own a .380 any longer since the PF9, LC9 and G43 have been around. I've always wanted a nice Beretta 84, though.
Zundfolge
02-28-2016, 14:14
I've always wanted a nice Beretta 84, though.
I would love to get the wife a Beretta 86 for a home gun ... that way I don't have to hear complaints about slide racking anymore (If Beretta would do a tip up version of the 92/96 or just chamber the 86 in 9x19 it would already be the wife's bedside gun).
OctopusHighball
02-28-2016, 22:08
Agreed, I've owned 2 CM9 pistols, and both were awesome. Actually wouldn't mind another.
You can't have yours back! It's now my everyday carry piece. Actually smaller than my G42. No reliability issues at all.
Would strongly recommend it over the G42 for those situations where mouse sized pocket carry is called for. Plus the G42 (well, my G42 anyway) is not reliable with hotter rounds of. 380.
hurley842002
02-28-2016, 22:19
You can't have yours back! It's now my everyday carry piece. Actually smaller than my G42. No reliability issues at all.
Would strongly recommend it over the G42 for those situations where mouse sized pocket carry is called for. Plus the G42 (well, my G42 anyway) is not reliable with hotter rounds of. 380.
LOL darn! Glad you are enjoying it and getting plenty of use out of it! I see no reason to own a 380 with pistols like the CM9 being produced. I can't think of anything that I could do with a pistol like an LCP that I couldn't do with a CM9.
Anyone have a CM9 for sale? [ROFL1]
This is spot on. I carry both a Shield and a Bodyguard at times, with the Bodyguard as a backup. Will it stop a tank, no. Does 380 group well at any real range, probably not if your hands are any bigger than a 5 year old. The thing is, it is not meant to. It is a very close quaters pistol much like the old poker pocket pistols. Think easy to conceal and shoot across a table[not that this is what CCW is meant for]. Small and deadly if used correctly. Everybody thinks of some big Hollywood shootout. The reality is if you are unlucky enough to get into a fight, then keep a cool head you are already ahead of the pack. If you have made it that far maybe you can then pick the right weapon for the job. I would much rather have a 380 than .22lr to pick from but both can do the job...... In the right circumstances.
We're living in a golden age of carry guns. First off there are some new .380 loads that perform significantly better than the wimpy .380 ball that we're used to but at the same time there are so many 9x19, .40 and .45 guns available that are smaller than the stalwart .380s of the past (like the Walther PPK, Sig P230/232, etc).
If you want a freakin' tiny gun that fits in a pocket real well, then a .380 isn't a bad choice (and is a significantly better choice today than even a decade ago).
At any rate, a couple thoughts.
-You're not going to find many critics of the .380 that will volunteer to stand in front of one.
-According to the FBI the most common handgun caliber used in homicides is .22lr ... which is significantly weaker than .380
kidicarus13
02-29-2016, 19:20
Anyone have a CM9 for sale? [ROFL1]
I'd consider selling mine to pick up the G43 listed in the Trading Post. I also have 2 holsters for it.
Grant H.
02-29-2016, 22:10
I wouldn't carry a .380, but I sure don't want shot with one.
I am not a small person, so I can get away with a 5" 1911 in concealment if I want to. There is no reason for me to have really small carry guns. I carry one of several compact to full size firearms. I don't even own a subcompact anymore.
If I were a part of the smaller folks in the world, I would probably consider the G43, Sig 239, etc, but I'm just not sold on the need for something so tiny that it can't be a 9mm.
I'd consider selling mine to pick up the G43 listed in the Trading Post. I also have 2 holsters for it.
Damn! I should have waited.
I picked one up today and carried it all day to feel it out in a Remora. It's a keeper for sure, size and comfort wise.
hurley842002
02-29-2016, 23:29
I'd consider selling mine to pick up the G43 listed in the Trading Post. I also have 2 holsters for it.
Hmmmm
Honey Badger282.8
02-29-2016, 23:57
I personally wouldn't trade my Glock 42 for a CM9. I normally carry the 27 but I'm fine with the 42 as well.
kidicarus13
03-01-2016, 00:02
I personally wouldn't trade my Glock 42 for a CM9. I normally carry the 27 but I'm fine with the 42 as well.
I wouldn't either. I'd never choose .380 over a 9mm of similar size.
hurley842002
03-01-2016, 00:04
I personally wouldn't trade my Glock 42 for a CM9. I normally carry the 27 but I'm fine with the 42 as well.
I'm a Glock guy through and through, but I've got no use for a G42 over a CM9.
I wouldn't carry a .380, but I sure don't want shot with one.
I wouldn't want to get shot with a BB gun, but I agree with your statement.
.380 Worth carrying?
Would not bet my life on it.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2016, 17:37
.380 Worth carrying?
Would not bet my life on it.
Try a reliable one with good ammo. I don't now or never had an issue with a 380 . Especially my old Beretta 84BB, Mauser HSC, or 232.
I had a SIG P230 in 1990 as an off-duty/backup. Needed a fluff and buff before it would reliably feed hollow points. Excellent accuracy out to 25 yards and I only shot it a few times past that but the bullet drop was enough to convince me that it wasn't a sniper weapon. I never liked the magazine release. I still refer to it as the European magazine release, and while I practiced, I was never able to swap mags quickly. It also had a tendency to slice the web of my thumb if I gripped it a bit too high. I sold it with the idea of getting a P232, but never got around to it.
Guns and calibers...I love having so many choices. [Coffee]
I had a SIG P230 in 1990 as an off-duty/backup. Needed a fluff and buff before it would reliably feed hollow points. Excellent accuracy out to 25 yards and I only shot it a few times past that but the bullet drop was enough to convince me that it wasn't a sniper weapon. I never liked the magazine release. I still refer to it as the European magazine release, and while I practiced, I was never able to swap mags quickly. It also had a tendency to slice the web of my thumb if I gripped it a bit too high. I sold it with the idea of getting a P232, but never got around to it.
Guns and calibers...I love having so many choices. [Coffee]
I had the same gun - stainless P230. Bought it for my wife at the time, but that direct blowback design had a snappy kick and would really bite the web of your hand. It was also quite heavy and large for a .380. She ended up with a P225 and loved it.
Now that there are a lot of 9mm guns in the same size/weight range, I'd pass on a .380. My new G43 fits the bill nicely.
I've been wearing this CM9 around the house and out and about in a remora. It is certainly comfortable no matter the circumstances. Far less cumbersome than the G26 in an MTAC, which is comfortable but much more gun weight and width wise.
I think it is what you get used to. I've been wearing my Glock 22 around the house and out and about in a hybrid IWB, all day today, yesterday, the day before, the day before that, etc...
I gave up on the idea of comfort while carrying a gun over twenty years ago. Too comfortable and you just may forget you have it. If I get too comfortable I will realize I took it off and need to go look for it.
For me, it is a responsibility and I tend to wear it like one.
zimagold
03-01-2016, 21:35
Not my first choice, but my Glock 42 fills a role that is difficult to replace. Carrying while running in summer clothes in a good example.
Edit: Concealed Carrying
If I get too comfortable I will realize I took it off and need to go look for it.
For me, it is a responsibility and I tend to wear it like one.
YES!
I can count on one hand the times I've left the house with an empty holster and it is always discovered via a wafting thought about how comfortable I feel at the moment, quickly followed by alarm.
Zundfolge
03-02-2016, 10:59
I had a SIG P230 in 1990 as an off-duty/backup.
One of the many guns I've regretted selling over the years was a SIG P232, which I bought for my wife but she preferred the KelTec P3AT because its smaller. Should have kept it for myself.
spqrzilla
03-07-2016, 12:29
I had a CZ 83 in .380ACP for years that was probably the most accurate small pistol I ever owned.
Just me but I feal that the .380 is a reliable caliber. I keep hollow points in mine. I wouldn't want to be shot by it or any other caliber for that matter
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I wouldn't want to be burned with a cigar.
Doesn't mean I'd carry one around for self defense.
I'm a believer in carrying the largest caliber I can accurately shoot and can conceal and put up with on my hip.
YMMV
Jefe's AR
03-19-2016, 22:23
I'm not here to debate. I LOVE .45 but, I have a LCP that is likely the most reliable pistol I've shot/own. To me, that means a lot. I mention it for those considering one. Put the Kahr belt clip on it and it becomes and easy go to when you just need to slip it in your belt. I also have a pocket holster and a CrossBreed IWB.
What I've found w/ CCW is not so much size, but weight.
Grouping is not critical in defensive situations, as long as you can group in say, a 5 inch circle, you probably won't hit something beyond your target. As for little guns being PITA to shoot, I have not found that to be the case. Shot an entire IDPA match with a LCP and had no issues. You have to grip it firmly, but that's is where the low recoil of the .380 comes in handy. Watched a guy shoot his .357 airweight and drive it into his thumb web, so all that power did was bleed 'im. I suspect he should have used more testosterone in his grip though.
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