View Full Version : Colorado Feels the Bern
Zundfolge
03-02-2016, 10:34
So while nobody was watching the pointless Republican Caucus last night, apparently in the Democrat Caucus Bernie took the state by a 60/40 margin.
This leaves me with a handful of thoughts (some good some bad).
The traditional "Colorado Democrat" (ie moderate/libertarian gun owning, outdoorsman, blue-dog Democrat) is dead. Colorado Democrats are outright Marxist idiots *shudder*.
Bernie is not going to be the Dem candidate ... hopefully this will so dishearten Colorado Comrades that they decide to sit home in November and CO goes for whatever creature the Republicans put up.
Single Payer ballot initiative here in Colorado is probably going to do much better than I thought (still don't think ... hope ... it will pass, but it's probably going down to the wire).
America will not be saved.
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2016, 12:57
Ever think they have an Obama mentality and want free shit. AND No matter who for them, it's ANYONE BUT HILLARY.
Single Payer ballot initiative here in Colorado is probably going to do much better than I thought (still don't think ... hope ... it will pass, but it's probably going down to the wire).
[/LIST]
This part makes me nervous. I think it has a very good chance at passing.
Even after thousands of years, it's still all about bread and circuses.
I heard some Bernie supporter being interviewed on the radio this morning. He said "I think that the government should do more for us." To them, "nanny state" is not a pejorative.
Dope and free shit...Feel the Bern
If I were a CO Democrat, I'd certainly vote for crazy over crooked. Despite his politics, Bernie is sincere, principled and likeable. Hillary is neither, which is why Bernie prevailed.
Dems in Colorado won't affect national politics this year, but it's a bad sign for state politics.
Perhaps we need to remove the tax exemption status of college kids so they can understand where their free stuff comes from.
Or, just remove income tax and go straight sales tax so everyone pays.
OldFogey
03-02-2016, 14:44
None of this matters. Poodle Head and the dnc want shrillary. They control the process via the super delegates. Funny how the democrats have the least democratic process for candidate selection, isn't it?
Uberjager
03-02-2016, 14:53
If I were a CO Democrat, I'd certainly vote for crazy over crooked. Despite his politics, Bernie is sincere, principled and likeable. Hillary is neither, which is why Bernie prevailed.
I'd argue that this is the case.
JohnnyDrama
03-02-2016, 19:01
This leaves me with a handful of thoughts (some good some bad).
The traditional "Colorado Democrat" (ie moderate/libertarian gun owning, outdoorsman, blue-dog Democrat) is dead. Colorado Democrats are outright Marxist idiots *shudder*.
Bernie is not going to be the Dem candidate ... hopefully this will so dishearten Colorado Comrades that they decide to sit home in November and CO goes for whatever creature the Republicans put up.
Single Payer ballot initiative here in Colorado is probably going to do much better than I thought (still don't think ... hope ... it will pass, but it's probably going down to the wire).
America will not be saved.
The succinctness of this paragraph made me chuckle.
According to someone who attended the Democrat caucus last night, many of those who "support" Shillery only due so because they don't believe crazy Uncle Bernie is electable.
Jeffrey Lebowski
03-02-2016, 19:43
This part makes me nervous. I think it has a very good chance at passing.
I don't. I hope not, obviously, but it would be next to impossible to operationalize in a country with so many federally based entitlements, including state based entitlements dependent upon federal dollars.
Sorry dems, you had your way too many times and now it becomes mutually exclusive. Single payer with at least 5 major exemptions? Collapse.
In the history of the world there has always been a huge number of people, when given freedom, that are not capable of directing there own lives and succeeding without help. These people don't even know what to do when no one is leading them. They believe they are just as smart and work just a hard as any rich guy, so it must not be fair. For these people it has always been somebody else's fault and they're entitled to what those rich people have. All demonrats and teachers have to do is bolster these ideas and blame it on republicans and you now have the next generation of perpetual big government voters. These people don't even understand why they hate republicans they just know it is required of them.
Capitalism and the constitution are the reason this country is the greatest country the world has ever known in just two hundred years. It is beyond me to understand how politicians can openly campaign on the evils of capitalism aka Wall Street. When the big government communism that they want is responsible for millions of more deaths than anything related to capitalism. This country and capitalism has almost single-handedly elevated the rest of the world in our ascension to greatness. I don't even comprehend why demonrats want to tear it down.
When people ask me if I'm a conservative, I tell them if that means conserving the constitution as it was written and intended, then yes and proud of it.
Bernie Sanders is definitely channeling his inner Jimmy Carter, but I think like Carter his intentions are good. Granted, he is batshit crazy with his beliefs, but I would take him over that murderous sociopath Hildabeast any day.
Kinda like saying I'd rather have my nards ripped off with channel-locks vs. vise-grips.
Either way, bad intentions.
Why doesn't anyone ever ask these people "Where are you going to get the money from?"?
I'd love to see an answer that doesn't call for me to pay more taxes.
Circuits
03-03-2016, 16:52
Why doesn't anyone ever ask these people "Where are you going to get the money from?"?
I'd love to see an answer that doesn't call for me to pay more taxes.
That would require talking to them. Their answers, if they give them, will leave you stupider for having asked and listened.
Zundfolge
03-03-2016, 16:53
Why doesn't anyone ever ask these people "Where are you going to get the money from?"?
I'd love to see an answer that doesn't call for me to pay more taxes.
Yes, these idiots honestly believe that you can just raise taxes on "the rich" and it will more than pay for everything they want and have zero negative impact on the economy.
They should watch this (but won't because they CHOOSE their ignorance):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ
How did a crop of such monumental ignorance and stupidity get raised and when will natural selection dispose of them.
Invader zim
03-03-2016, 18:05
64304
Zundfolge
03-03-2016, 20:15
How did a crop of such monumental ignorance and stupidity get raised
Union run public education
and when will natural selection dispose of them.
Soon ... unsustainable systems are unsustainable. Going to suck when this one comes crashing down.
https://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/social.jpg
So I was talking to a couple of co-workers and they said they wouldn't mind paying a few more dollars in taxes so people could go to junior/community college for free. I think they feel guilty about their success so they think that by giving some ingrate a free education they'll be absolved from their self-imposed guilt.
This is the mentality we're up against, these people don't/won't understand that a few more taxes here and there pretty soon adds up to a whole paycheck. They have it in their heads that they'll continue to receive raises and bonuses to maintain their lifestyle in spite of the taxes they levy upon themselves and the rest of us.
So I was talking to a couple of co-workers and they said they wouldn't mind paying a few more dollars in taxes so people could go to junior/community college for free. I think they feel guilty about their success so they think that by giving some ingrate a free education they'll be absolved from their self-imposed guilt.
This is the mentality we're up against, these people don't/won't understand that a few more taxes here and there pretty soon adds up to a whole paycheck. They have it in their heads that they'll continue to receive raises and bonuses to maintain their lifestyle in spite of the taxes they levy upon themselves and the rest of us.
Yup. This is a very big uphill battle. Generally speaking, democrats prefer for charity via taxes/programs and republicans like to do charity work personally. I believe the charity via taxes allows them to sleep at night saying "I'm a good person" without really having to do it.
Yup. This is a very big uphill battle. Generally speaking, democrats prefer for charity via taxes/programs and republicans like to do charity work personally. I believe the charity via taxes allows them to sleep at night saying "I'm a good person" without really having to do it.
Yup, then I said "If you're so concerned about it why don't you just donate your own money instead using the government to force me to donate my money to your craptastic cause". I got the "Don't you want to help people" and "You're selfish" answers.
muddywings
03-04-2016, 15:39
“The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’
‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”Robert Heinlein
COShooter
03-04-2016, 17:25
In the history of the world there has always been a huge number of people, when given freedom, that are not capable of directing there own lives and succeeding without help. These people don't even know what to do when no one is leading them. They believe they are just as smart and work just a hard as any rich guy, so it must not be fair. For these people it has always been somebody else's fault and they're entitled to what those rich people have. All demonrats and teachers have to do is bolster these ideas and blame it on republicans and you now have the next generation of perpetual big government voters. These people don't even understand why they hate republicans they just know it is required of them.
Capitalism and the constitution are the reason this country is the greatest country the world has ever known in just two hundred years. It is beyond me to understand how politicians can openly campaign on the evils of capitalism aka Wall Street. When the big government communism that they want is responsible for millions of more deaths than anything related to capitalism. This country and capitalism has almost single-handedly elevated the rest of the world in our ascension to greatness. I don't even comprehend why demonrats want to tear it down.
When people ask me if I'm a conservative, I tell them if that means conserving the constitution as it was written and intended, then yes and proud of it.
Firstly I think it's unfair to say that people don't know why they hate R's, I think it's pretty obvious with their presidential lineup, somehow it's even crazier this year than it was 4 years ago.
Secondly, every time I hear Bernie Sanders speak on the issue, he starts by saying that wall st and corporations needs to pay their fair share. I know you feel overly taxed, and I do too, but Wal-Mart sure as hell doesn't. Exxon sure as hell doesn't. They get so many subsidies and bs tax breaks that some companies actually get paid by the IRS. Stopping that = more tax revenue without me paying more.
I view single payer healthcare like I do the military. It's a vital interest to National Security to have a healthy population so it's important enough to cover everyone. We can argue about lines or slow care or whatever, but the bottom line is that 60% of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills that can't be paid. The medical bills get discharged in bankruptcy = hospitals and doctors have to charge out the ass to remaining few of us that actually can pay = $2000 ambulance ride. If I get rid of a $400/month healthcare payment and replace is with $50 a month tax increase, I come out ahead and I also don't have to worry about so many bankrupt people turning to crime or whether I can afford to call an ambulance or not when I get hurt.
As a counterpoint I would argue that socialism is partly the reason that we are the greatest country in the world. During WW2 the rest of the world's leading powers destroyed themselves while the US government was able to harness the power of our population and our abundant natural resources. During WW2 the mobilization of industry was coordinated by the government (socialism) and our factories turned out record numbers of the highest tech gear ever created.
The government's civilian scientists were responsible for making the a-bomb due to centralized control of resources.
After that NASA was born, one of America's greatest creations. It put a man on the moon. It was proof that massive government tasks can excel with the right leadership.
GPS and the internet, arguably the largest and most successful innovations of America, were totally socialistic in nature. We are using them right now to communicate virtually for free, they were mindbogglingly huge investments by the federal government over many sectors and then given away for free. Now the entire world's commerce depends on them.
I think the rhetoric that the Republican establishment has been spitting for the past 8-10 years is A) ultimately causing the general population to not fear socialism very much due to crying wolf syndrome and B) seriously misinterprets America's history to posit the alternate theory that America has never had a socialist program until recently, and all socialist programs are total failures.
As another poster mentioned, I would rather vote for Sanders than any one else purely because I think he's at least honest. Honesty goes a long way in our messed up political field. I can handle weird, eccentric people and I never had trouble arguing against bad ideas.
^
[ROFL2]
Oh to be young again.
Whoa, a lot to debate here, this will have to wait till I'm ata real computer though. For now, let's remember that as hatidua has wisely quipped, spending is in our DNA. When you have a population just itching to spend every dollar they make, while at the same time fighting to earn more just to turn around and spend it, it is completely disingenuous to point a finger at how much revenue corporations make each year. Also, I don't buy for a second that over half of bankruptcies are from medical expenses. If you've been working for even five years and don't have they money for insurance coverage, or cannot afford to make payments, you can look right in the mirror for answers. Certainly there are people who get expensive diseases or costly accidents, but most people don't go bankrupt over night. It takes years of bad financial decisions to build up to that point for a lot of people.
"You'll ending up saving money" sounds a lot like "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".
Great-Kazoo
03-04-2016, 19:38
Firstly I think it's unfair to say that people don't know why they hate R's, I think it's pretty obvious with their presidential lineup, somehow it's even crazier this year than it was 4 years ago.
Secondly, every time I hear Bernie Sanders speak on the issue, he starts by saying that wall st and corporations needs to pay their fair share. I know you feel overly taxed, and I do too, but Wal-Mart sure as hell doesn't. Exxon sure as hell doesn't. They get so many subsidies and bs tax breaks that some companies actually get paid by the IRS. Stopping that = more tax revenue without me paying more.
I view single payer healthcare like I do the military. It's a vital interest to National Security to have a healthy population so it's important enough to cover everyone. We can argue about lines or slow care or whatever, but the bottom line is that 60% of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills that can't be paid. The medical bills get discharged in bankruptcy = hospitals and doctors have to charge out the ass to remaining few of us that actually can pay = $2000 ambulance ride. If I get rid of a $400/month healthcare payment and replace is with $50 a month tax increase, I come out ahead and I also don't have to worry about so many bankrupt people turning to crime or whether I can afford to call an ambulance or not when I get hurt.
As a counterpoint I would argue that socialism is partly the reason that we are the greatest country in the world. During WW2 the rest of the world's leading powers destroyed themselves while the US government was able to harness the power of our population and our abundant natural resources. During WW2 the mobilization of industry was coordinated by the government (socialism) and our factories turned out record numbers of the highest tech gear ever created.
The government's civilian scientists were responsible for making the a-bomb due to centralized control of resources.
After that NASA was born, one of America's greatest creations. It put a man on the moon. It was proof that massive government tasks can excel with the right leadership.
GPS and the internet, arguably the largest and most successful innovations of America, were totally socialistic in nature. We are using them right now to communicate virtually for free, they were mindbogglingly huge investments by the federal government over many sectors and then given away for free. Now the entire world's commerce depends on them.
I think the rhetoric that the Republican establishment has been spitting for the past 8-10 years is A) ultimately causing the general population to not fear socialism very much due to crying wolf syndrome and B) seriously misinterprets America's history to posit the alternate theory that America has never had a socialist program until recently, and all socialist programs are total failures.
As another poster mentioned, I would rather vote for Sanders than any one else purely because I think he's at least honest. Honesty goes a long way in our messed up political field. I can handle weird, eccentric people and I never had trouble arguing against bad ideas.
YOU'RE FUCKING KIDDING ME, RIGHT??
Curious how much you pay , where you live, how much debt (school & personal) loans you have.
I'm sure you BELIEVE the D party only wants REASONABLE Gun Restrictions. CORRECT?
Aloha_Shooter
03-04-2016, 20:02
I don't feel like quoting that load of hooey but it's a prime example of how the Socialists have taken over the education system and brainwashed the young.
You want to see the future of single payer healthcare? All you have to do is look at the past 40 years of the VA or Britain's National Health System before Maggie Thatcher fixed it. I had government-paid healthcare most of my life -- nothing like waiting 3 years to get a torn rotator cuff repaired, having to work through a primary care monitor to get a sprain assessed, or having procedures postponed until next fiscal year when some money might be appropriated. When I retired from the AF, I opted for Tricare Standard over "Prime" and never looked back. Yes, I have a higher co-pay and pay for some things that would be "covered" under Prime but I see the doc I want when I want.
Are you really advocating a global war in order to make government look good? The nation was in the depths of a never ending Depression until the necessity of responding to Hitler and Tojo drove industry in a way Roosevelt had never been able to do. As far as whether you need government to drive tech, I point to the difference in gear issued to our soldiers in 2001 (government research and procurement) versus what the soldiers were getting in 2005 or 2009 when private industry responded to need. Private industry has surpassed government research and development in lightweight survival and camping gear since at least the mid-1990s and I'd argue well before then.
GPS and the Internet aren't socialistic, they was driven by military needs and long-term strategy. Private industry and innovation took advantage of them and made them what they are today -- and the communication advances of the Internet were well underway even before the USG opened the Internet portals -- take a look at what was happening with Echo BBS and packet radio. In fact, it wasn't until the government regulation was reduced that telephone rates and airfares came down to the point that no one even thinks about the cost of a phone call today.
Sanders is hardly honest or likeable, he just seems so compared to Hillary. He has been known for years as a cantankerous, irascible ideologue who was outright rude to anyone who wasn't also a Socialist. Anyone who would even consider voting for Sanders (with the possible exception of only having Hillary as an alternative) clearly has trouble identifying much less arguing against bad ideas.
I'm voting for whoever promises me the most free stuff.
I'm voting for whoever promises me the most free stuff.
I promise to give you free hugs, every time I see you.
Please give me your vote.
COShooter
03-04-2016, 20:57
GPS and the Internet aren't socialistic, they was driven by military needs and long-term strategy. Private industry and innovation took advantage of them and made them what they are today -- and the communication advances of the Internet were well underway even before the USG opened the Internet portals -- take a look at what was happening with Echo BBS and packet radio. In fact, it wasn't until the government regulation was reduced that telephone rates and airfares came down to the point that no one even thinks about the cost of a phone call today.
Sanders is hardly honest or likeable, he just seems so compared to Hillary. He has been known for years as a cantankerous, irascible ideologue who was outright rude to anyone who wasn't also a Socialist. Anyone who would even consider voting for Sanders (with the possible exception of only having Hillary as an alternative) clearly has trouble identifying much less arguing against bad ideas.
I respect your reasoning for not getting into a quote battle, and have only quoted this part because I want to address it directly. Thanks for engaging me like a real person and not responding with useless insults as well.
The military is by definition socialist. That's all I really have to say on that matter. It's not for profit, it's run by the government at a loss primarily for the betterment and security of the country. Exactly the same way I view healthcare. Those are really the only two things I believe should be federally controlled, everything else should be state or local. Tricare is government healthcare you realize, right? As far as the VA is concerned, I blame Bush for taking us into a war without thinking about the soldiers. The VA has actually gotten better under Obama very slightly, not that I credit him with it, just based on experience working for a law firm that dealt with the VA.
Hillary is the devil.
YOU'RE FUCKING KIDDING ME, RIGHT??
Curious how much you pay , where you live, how much debt (school & personal) loans you have.
I'm sure you BELIEVE the D party only wants REASONABLE Gun Restrictions. CORRECT?
I'd rather you try to tear apart one of the arguments I put forth, but since you are so curious I guess I can answer you briefly. I live in Morrison as my profile says to the left. I have $5000 in debt from community college. I have no degree. I have been working since high school. I am in my 30s. I think Rs are a joke and Dems are morons. Bernie wants to take away our AR-15s and I cannot ever forgive him for that, but somehow it still seems better than the alternatives.
COShooter
03-04-2016, 21:04
Whoa, a lot to debate here, this will have to wait till I'm ata real computer though. For now, let's remember that as hatidua has wisely quipped, spending is in our DNA. When you have a population just itching to spend every dollar they make, while at the same time fighting to earn more just to turn around and spend it, it is completely disingenuous to point a finger at how much revenue corporations make each year. Also, I don't buy for a second that over half of bankruptcies are from medical expenses. If you've been working for even five years and don't have they money for insurance coverage, or cannot afford to make payments, you can look right in the mirror for answers. Certainly there are people who get expensive diseases or costly accidents, but most people don't go bankrupt over night. It takes years of bad financial decisions to build up to that point for a lot of people.
Don't believe me, look for yourself. (https://www.google.com/search?q=bankruptcy+60%25&oq=bankrup&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0j69i57j0l3.1471j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8)
Wow. Just wow.
sent from somwhere
The troll made my ignore list within 15 posts, I think that is a record.
hurley842002
03-04-2016, 21:28
The troll made my ignore list within 15 posts, I think that is a record.
Under 20 posts in two years, I get the feeling he's only here to campaign for Bernie...
The clock is ticking and the water is swirling in the bowl gentleman.
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