Tell me about the AWB. [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

hatidua

03-30-2016, 22:53

For the most part, everything was "available" during the '94-'04 AWB but prices were highly inflated relative to what we are seeing in 2016 in most states (CO excluded in terms of mags). I lived much of that decade in NC/GA/FL (not exactly known as rabid anti-gun states). Colt pencil-barreled AR-15's were $2,500/used, Glock G18 mags were $200-each, beat-to-near-death MP5/HK94 mags were $125 - if you could find them at all.

Ammo was far cheaper than it is now, but the guns that fell under the shadow of the AWB were very costly.

All of that said, I would not forecast a future AWB looking like a duplicate of the past. I doubt a future version would/will have a sunset clause...

Monky

03-30-2016, 23:50

We really need to stop going out on the lake...

y4m4

03-31-2016, 00:03

All of that said, I would not forecast a future AWB looking like a duplicate of the past. I doubt a future version would/will have a sunset clause...

Plus, they will likely make it nearly impossible to legally transfer ownership of "banned" firearms. I'm sure you'll be able to transfer "grandfathered" guns to family members, but that's it. I doubt they would attempt "voluntary" confiscation.

I would expect it to be more broad that anything currently on the books in states like NY or CA. I'm sure these bans are providing valuable feedback on how to further restrict our rights. Expect loopholes closed, such as: bullet buttons, AR spurs, and funny looking stocks.64681

Gman

03-31-2016, 00:09

The lack of bayonet lugs certainly kept bayonet crime down.

Irving

03-31-2016, 00:15

I wish the government would go back to trying to ban rock and roll...

JohnTRourke

03-31-2016, 03:56

The biggest lesson was mags. Esp towards teh end, there was not much available (totally worn out) and very expensive. Your nice fancy semi-auto is pretty worthless without good running magazines.

Buy a LOT, WAY WAY WAY MORE than you might ever need. They won't go down in value and if you sell the gun you can still the mags.

Walker2970

03-31-2016, 06:13

Me neither. They all got got dumped into Trappers Lake during that tragic boating accident.
Man i miss fishing that place. You could probably arm the Air Force with whats at the bottom

roberth

03-31-2016, 06:47

We really need to stop going out on the lake...

...it's a magnet...can't resist..........

milwaukeeshaker

03-31-2016, 07:33

Sold all of mine before the shitty "universal backround" law.

StagLefty

03-31-2016, 07:45

My home is an allowed gun zone so I'm exempt from any future AWB's

BlasterBob

03-31-2016, 08:14

If they were lost at the lake, would be a neat coincidence if they happened to be in an air tight container with the exact location marked in your brain. Wouldn't you know, while we still lived in Colorado, I bought a bunch of high capacity mags just prior to the mag law and then we move to Illinois where these mags are are all over the place and still legal here.

Rucker61

03-31-2016, 08:24

Plus, they will likely make it nearly impossible to legally transfer ownership of "banned" firearms. I'm sure you'll be able to transfer "grandfathered" guns to family members, but that's it. I doubt they would attempt "voluntary" confiscation.

I would expect it to be more broad that anything currently on the books in states like NY or CA. I'm sure these bans are providing valuable feedback on how to further restrict our rights. Expect loopholes closed, such as: bullet buttons, AR spurs, and funny looking stocks.64681

HR 4269, the current AWB co-sponsored by 125 House Democrats, has no provision for transfer to family members, even upon death. By law, those proscribed firearms which also include certain handguns and shotguns would need to be turned into the State.

Martinjmpr

03-31-2016, 08:44

The biggest change I've seen is the explosion in the number of AR clones. Back in the 90's there was Colt of course, and a few smaller makers like Bushmaster and Olympic but not much else, and ARs were typically very expensive.

In fact, the popularity of the Ruger Mini-14 was not because it was a good gun (I had one for many years and I have to reluctantly say they were not that good.) They were popular because they were cheap compared to ARs. In the early 90's when the Chinese started importing large quantities of SKSs and semi-auto AK style rifles, sales of the Mini-14 started declining rapidly.

Remember the AWB didn't actually "ban" anything other than magazines. Every gun that was made before the "ban" was also made afterwards, the only difference was they'd remove things like flash hiders or bayonet lugs, and the AKs got these goofy "thumbhole" stocks (which were actually surprisingly comfortable, particularly since unlike the standard AK which is designed for a person of small stature, the US-only thumbhole stocks were designed for grown men.)

Martinjmpr

03-31-2016, 08:48

As for AR Build Kits, yes they existed (I first remember seeing them in the mid 1980's, actually) but there weren't that many companies making lower receivers so the "cottage industry" of "build your own AR" didn't exist then.

The other thing I remember from the 80's was that you could buy a "flat" of a MAC-10 receiver that was pre-printed with all the places you needed to cut and bend, marked for where holes needed to be drilled, and then you could buy all of the other parts to assemble a MAC-10 SMG (not a semi-auto pistol, a full-auto SMG.) I think the ATF shut them down pretty quick, though, but for a while you could buy those through Shotgun News (which was our paper version of Gunbroker.com.) ;)

Zundfolge

03-31-2016, 09:01

The worst bits of the AWB were no muzzle brakes on ARs and those godawful stupid pinned collapsible stocks. That and "preban" mag prices. Oh and long drawn out discussions of 922r (which nobody seems to care about anymore).

We did get a couple of good things in the handgun area.
The rebirth in interest in small .45acp guns and the rise of the .40S&W are direct results of the AWB (since you were limited to 10 rounds, larger rounds became more desirable). The trend before the AWB was high capacity 9mm pistols like the Glock 17. The AWB encouraged manufacturers to make smaller and more powerful handguns (along with the rise of CCW that happened at the same time as the AWB ... often as a political response to the AWB).

Also the AWB is why we never had a President Gore *shudder*

asmo

03-31-2016, 09:15

The worst bits of the AWB were no muzzle brakes on ARs and those godawful stupid pinned collapsible stocks. That and "preban" mag prices. Oh and long drawn out discussions of 922r (which nobody seems to care about anymore).

^^ This ^^ and the ban on the import of AKs, FNs, and AUGs -- all of which I wanted at the time. The prices on magazines were stupid. The ban was flawed, as a ban, because it focused on cosmetic items and not the function of the gun/rifle itself.

That said, the next AWB will be *very* different. There will be no grandfather clause, no ability to transfer, surrender upon death, there will be very constraining magazine size limits, and expect entire classes of firearms to be set aside for LEO only - and of course specific registration for anyone who owns more than X guns/particular types of guns (see NY and Connecticut). The anti-gun crowd has learned and if you read any of their proposed legislation it is obvious they are going full out the next time they have an opportunity.

Martinjmpr

03-31-2016, 09:18

The worst bits of the AWB were no muzzle brakes on ARs and those godawful stupid pinned collapsible stocks. That and "preban" mag prices. Oh and long drawn out discussions of 922r (which nobody seems to care about anymore).

Oh, yes, the "pinned" folding "style" stocks - these were stocks you could get for the likes of the SKS and 10-22 that had been originally manufactured as folding stocks but because of the AWB they were fixed in place. The places that sold them also sold "retrofit kits" that would allow the stock to fold - which also came with an admonishment that such a device could only be installed on a "pre-ban" gun. [LOL] I think I actually still have one of those "retrofit kits" somewhere.

As for 922r discussions, back when I used to hang out on SKS message boards in the early 2000's there was still a lot of 922r talk because technically it's still illegal to modify an imported firearm that was brought in as a "sporting" weapon (like the SKS) in such a way that it has "assault weapon" features. The way you get around this is by having a "magic number" of US made parts that somehow transforms the "imported" firearm into a "domestic" firearm and thus avoids 922r.

And yes, it's as stupid as it sounds. :rolleyes:

Martinjmpr

03-31-2016, 09:23

The only thing I miss from that era is the price of .22 ammo. [panic]

I still have I think one box of Remingtons, 525 round "bulk pack" that I got at Dave's Gun and Pawn in Fayette-Nam around 1995 or 96. Price was about $5.50. [Shake]

kidicarus13

03-31-2016, 09:43

Here's all you need to know about the AWB...

BUY IT BEFORE HILLARY GETS ELECTED.

OneGuy67

03-31-2016, 10:07

I remember having to have a letter from my chief allowing me to buy a Colt lower for a future build. I can't remember why though.

Dave_L

03-31-2016, 10:08

MED

03-31-2016, 10:14

I doubt a successful AWB and Mag ban will look anything like what happened in '94. The only difference between my pre-ban AR and and post ban at the store was purely cosmetic; it was a manufacture ban not a transfer of ownership ban, which will be different when it happens again (look at California for insights into what they want to do). The parts and manufacturer craze hit with the sunset of the AWB and there is a much larger saturation of firearms and accessories now, which was not the case in the early 90s. Like so many people said on here, mags were the main issue then. However, it will be transfer of ownership in the future. Any type of ban will present a unique set of challenges.

MED

03-31-2016, 10:17

Were there restrictions on all mags over X capacity? 30 rounders hard to get?

Not if you had deep pockets. They were expensive!!!! ....ban set at 10rds...no new supply. Used worn out GI mags that needed a rebuild kit sold between $25-50. Various handgun mags were $75 and up.

Martinjmpr

03-31-2016, 10:31

A simple panic doesn't worry me but a non-sunsetting AWB is very worrisome. I can wait 6, 12, 18 months for prices to come back to regular but if it's forever, I really want to order some things by the pallet now. Haha.

Were there restrictions on all mags over X capacity? 30 rounders hard to get?

Yup 10 rounds. You can still find ban-era magazines, they are stamped "Government and law enforcement use only." After the AWB sunsetted in 2004 those words became meaningless and it was legal to buy sell and trade magazines even if they were so marked. But you could buy and sell pre-ban (i.e. unmarked) mags freely even by mail order.

Remember that the AWB was passed when the Dems controlled both houses and Clinton was in his 2nd year in office. Even then there was so much opposition that the sunset clause was put in. It was generally assumed that the AWB and the Brady Law were what caused the Dems to lose both houses of Congress for the first time in almost 50 years.

The 1994 ban was the first example of the "panic buying" phenomenon, because there was a lag between when the law was signed and when it took effect. Ever since then even the hint of another ban sets off a wave of panic buying.

Nevertheless I think the likelihood of a nationwide AWB being passed again is small unless the Dems take significant majorities in both houses. Now, at the state level it's a different thing, as we've seen right here in CO.

milwaukeeshaker

03-31-2016, 10:33

Yessir my thoughts exactly about Ruger. Also they just copy others designs, put a safety on, do a better finish, raise the price substantially and call it "their" wonderful design, and watch the rubes buy 'em out. Ruger can't even come up with their own guns, but some folks worship at the Ruger altar. Damn copycats, and sellouts. Yeah I know Bill Ruger is dead.

Terrible.
I will never get those images of thumb hole FALs out of my mind. That "great" guy Reagan was responsible for the gun ban of 86 which destroyed our rights to own AUGs, HKs, Belgian FNCs without a second mortgage. The magazine ban hurt so bad. I remember spending hours at gun shows trying to find Glock 21 mags for less than $120 a pop. Lost my stash during a move. Took years to get back. Even high cap 10/22 mags were crazy high. Didnt help that Ruger sucks and enjoys tossing our rights without a thought. They are not our friend.

spqrzilla

03-31-2016, 11:34

Ruger management is more rights friendly than during the Bill Ruger days.

speedysst

03-31-2016, 11:49

According to NSA drone surveillance, that is not true.
Me neither. They all got got dumped into Trappers Lake during that tragic boating accident.

Aloha_Shooter

03-31-2016, 12:51

The worst bits of the AWB were no muzzle brakes on ARs and those godawful stupid pinned collapsible stocks. That and "preban" mag prices. Oh and long drawn out discussions of 922r (which nobody seems to care about anymore).

Just a slight correction. Flash hiders were forbidden, not muzzle brakes. I bought an A2-style AR-15 during the AWB days (early 2001, pre-9/11) with no bayonet lug but it did have a muzzle brake and the seller was very careful to explain it was the allowed muzzle brake and NOT a forbidden flash hider.

That said, the next AWB will be *very* different. There will be no grandfather clause, no ability to transfer, surrender upon death, there will be very constraining magazine size limits, and expect entire classes of firearms to be set aside for LEO only - and of course specific registration for anyone who owns more than X guns/particular types of guns (see NY and Connecticut). The anti-gun crowd has learned and if you read any of their proposed legislation it is obvious they are going full out the next time they have an opportunity.

Agreed, the anti-gun crowd has learned and shown they intend to push a new AWB that is more restrictive and takes effect immediately (and possibly even retroactively if they can figure a way to make it work).

Were there restrictions on all mags over X capacity? 30 rounders hard to get?

I found it pretty easy to get 30 round mags that had been decommissioned from military use. Often pretty old but still in good condition.

Yessir my thoughts exactly about Ruger. Also they just copy others designs, put a safety on, do a better finish, raise the price substantially and call it "their" wonderful design, and watch the rubes buy 'em out. Ruger can't even come up with their own guns, but some folks worship at the Ruger altar. Damn copycats, and sellouts. Yeah I know Bill Ruger is dead.

Ruger has been pretty pro-2A in the past decade or so. Like any major company, they alter their messaging with the times because they want to stay in business. They don't have a lot of original designs but they have preserved classic designs and pushed them to new platforms. Let's face it, Garand's design for the M-1 and M-14 were pretty damned solid so it was a no-brainer to convert it to .223 Remington to take advantage of the new ammunition. The Colt SAA design again was solid and classic, why not keep producing more of that in the calibers and finishes people want?

The fact that people are buying their products speaks to the demand. The fact they're getting a good price for their products means they have a pretty good business plan and I don't have any problem with them charging what the market will bear. If you don't want to pay their prices, you can always buy an Italian-made SAA or an AK or SKS or AR or ...

Kraven251

03-31-2016, 12:51

The next time there is an AWB that makes it through, it will be for blood. It will not be no transfer, it will be full on confiscation. All of you should be ashamed. You have looked at various pieces of legislation and while very distasteful in their own right, you have applied sensibility. Hiliary and her ilk want the eradication of firearm ownership in the United States and the elimination of the culture of free will and free thinking that goes with it.

The next time there is a weapons ban, it will be nothing short of Schindler's List. Don't kid yourself not even for a moment, it will be a bad day for clean water, fresh food, and readily available medical care.

Circuits

03-31-2016, 12:56

milwaukeeshaker

03-31-2016, 13:10

Or....a Kel-Tec, of which Ruger has copied several times. I have several KT's and they function very, very well and cost less than the copies. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Just a slight correction. Flash hiders were forbidden, not muzzle brakes. I bought an A2-style AR-15 during the AWB days (early 2001, pre-9/11) with no bayonet lug but it did have a muzzle brake and the seller was very careful to explain it was the allowed muzzle brake and NOT a forbidden flash hider.

Agreed, the anti-gun crowd has learned and shown they intend to push a new AWB that is more restrictive and takes effect immediately (and possibly even retroactively if they can figure a way to make it work).

I found it pretty easy to get 30 round mags that had been decommissioned from military use. Often pretty old but still in good condition.

Ruger has been pretty pro-2A in the past decade or so. Like any major company, they alter their messaging with the times because they want to stay in business. They don't have a lot of original designs but they have preserved classic designs and pushed them to new platforms. Let's face it, Garand's design for the M-1 and M-14 were pretty damned solid so it was a no-brainer to convert it to .223 Remington to take advantage of the new ammunition. The Colt SAA design again was solid and classic, why not keep producing more of that in the calibers and finishes people want?

The fact that people are buying their products speaks to the demand. The fact they're getting a good price for their products means they have a pretty good business plan and I don't have any problem with them charging what the market will bear. If you don't want to pay their prices, you can always buy an Italian-made SAA or an AK or SKS or AR or ...

Gman

03-31-2016, 13:14

Also they just copy others designs, put a safety on, do a better finish, raise the price substantially and call it "their" wonderful design, and watch the rubes buy 'em out.
I thought you were talking about Apple there for a minute...

Zundfolge

03-31-2016, 13:50

Just a slight correction. Flash hiders were forbidden, not muzzle brakes. I bought an A2-style AR-15 during the AWB days (early 2001, pre-9/11) with no bayonet lug but it did have a muzzle brake and the seller was very careful to explain it was the allowed muzzle brake and NOT a forbidden flash hider.
I thought it was threaded barrels that were banned under the AWB.

The next time there is an AWB that makes it through, it will be for blood.
Next time an AWB goes through I will be a criminal and in a state of de facto war against the us government (and probably get kicked off this forum).

We will have crossed that "if its time to bury them its time to use them" line.

This is why I'm pretty much convinced that if Hillary is our next president it will mean that at some point in the next decade I will die violently at the hands of agents of the state.

Aloha_Shooter

03-31-2016, 14:03

I thought it was threaded barrels that were banned under the AWB.

Those too. My muzzle brake was soldered on to the barrel.

Zundfolge

03-31-2016, 14:11

Those too. My muzzle brake was soldered on to the barrel.

Right, but as a result most AR rifles sold during that time had no muzzle device at all.

O2HeN2

03-31-2016, 15:48

The next time there is an AWB that makes it through, it will be for blood. It will not be no transfer, it will be full on confiscation.
...not to mention prohibitively expensive liability insurance for the firearms that they allow you to keep... for now.

Firearms legislation under Clinton will be pure, evil punitive punishment. Nothing less.

O2

rfizzle

03-31-2016, 16:52

All of this has been said, but the previous AWB:
-Mags were expensive but somewhat available. Every Tom, Dick and Harry made mags prior to the ban so you ran the risk of crap when buying.
-1911's and other single stacks saw a surge in production/development.
-"Assault weapons" became nurtured version of themselves but were still available, yet pricey and limited in models/makes. (This has been the greatest part of AWB sunset, seeing prices and selection go in opposite directions)

Also I have to agree that any future bans (State or Fed) will be extreme, and leave no transferring of banned items. Look at NY, CT, or CA and we can see the future. Total ban of semi-auto rifles, mags limited to 10, registration, confiscation, no transfer to anyone for any reason, insurance/storage/training requirements, and that'll be the first wave....

It's been said before and I'll say it again, buy it now and buy as much as you can.

Colorado Fatboy

03-31-2016, 17:24

Here we go again! Another "panic" will be here VERY SOON!

Stock up and buy all you can.

Seriously, do you really think hitlery can get a ban when dipshit couldn't after two terms??

Zundfolge

03-31-2016, 17:35

Seriously, do you really think hitlery can get a ban when dipshit couldn't after two terms??

She will reshape the supreme court. Heller and every other pro-gun ruling will find their way back in front of the court (as the left controls the whole system) and the Second Amendment will be written out of existence (along with the first, fourth, fifth, and tenth).

The Republican party will be destroyed by the loss (and whatever stupid crap the establishment plans on pulling at the convention) so within 2-4 years the Democrats (and their proxies in whatever's left of the GOPe) will control the house and senate. Then the fun will begin because the system will be so rigged that no Republican will ever win at the national level again. As we become a Single Party state the corruption and distance from the Constitution will grow exponentially. The velocity at which this all will happen will be truly shocking but DC knows that the people are cowed and will not rise up (or if they do it won't be until it's way too late ... which frankly it probably is already and the handfuls of people on our side that do rise up will be criticized by our side ... just look how many pro-gun people sneer at the name "Bundy").

If you care about obeying the law, stock up on as much as you can now ... as for me I don't care anymore, I'll buy whatever the hell I want whenever I want and only obey the law if its convenient (which currently it is). The law is an ass.

Dave_L

03-31-2016, 17:42

Seriously, do you really think hitlery can get a ban when dipshit couldn't after two terms??

I think she's more motivated to get one in place than O was. Add in the things that Zundfolge addressed and yes, it could be possible within the next 4 years. I already see plenty of "Why do you need that" in reference to firearms among the upcoming generation. The left has done a great job on getting young people involved and on their side. Do not discount what they can get done. Did you ever think Colorado would have mag limits?

milwaukeeshaker

03-31-2016, 18:17

Or the damn backround checks!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is that not important? It is another freedom lost.

Aloha_Shooter

03-31-2016, 18:44

I think she's more motivated to get one in place than O was. Add in the things that Zundfolge addressed and yes, it could be possible within the next 4 years. I already see plenty of "Why do you need that" in reference to firearms among the upcoming generation. The left has done a great job on getting young people involved and on their side. Do not discount what they can get done. Did you ever think Colorado would have mag limits? Nah, no one has been more motivated to implement gun control than Obama. Hillary is going to be more motivated by trying to cover up all the illegal crap she's been doing for 30+ years. I really think her three prime motivations for running for president are ego, power mania, and a desire to control the legal system so she can't be investigated or indicted -- and I'm really not sure what order to place those in.

Great-Kazoo

03-31-2016, 20:47

Nah, no one has been more motivated to implement gun control than Obama. Hillary is going to be more motivated by trying to cover up all the illegal crap she's been doing for 30+ years. I really think her three prime motivations for running for president are ego, power mania, and a desire to control the legal system so she can't be investigated or indicted -- and I'm really not sure what order to place those in.

You forgot her other ambition.
Reshaping the SCOTUS. What a precedence it would be to have the FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT (keeping in mind, according to her and every other FSA fukhead, it's not about GENDER) When elected she would be the first, whose time has been long in coming FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT.
To appoint (NOT NOMINATE) the first openly gay / lesbian bi-racial SCJ. NOT ONCE, but TWICE.

Zundfolge

03-31-2016, 21:07

Nah, no one has been more motivated to implement gun control than Obama.
I'm going to disagree with you there. I don't think Obama cares one way or another about gun control (other than he supports it because he's a progressive). Hillary on the other hand can still feel the sting of her husband's beautiful AWB not being renewed. Obama's priorities are along the lines of wealth redistribution, punishing the white west for colonialism and dismantling the power and prestige of the white west. Gun control is a part of that but I don't think he's particularly motivated when it comes to gun control ... if he had to trade away a new gun control law in a deal to hand some of our sovereignty or wealth away he'd do it.

Hillary has been saber rattling about gun control even when it's obviously hurting her against Bernie (who I think is more like Obama and not as concerned about gun control) and will definitely hurt her in the general. I think she sees the opening that Scalia's death has given the gun control movement and she thinks greasing the skids for more gun control will benefit her.

To appoint (NOT NOMINATE) the first openly gay / lesbian bi-racial SCJ. NOT ONCE, but TWICE.
Too late ... Kagen is clearly a rug muncher.

Great-Kazoo

03-31-2016, 21:27

I'm going to disagree with you there. I don't think Obama cares one way or another about gun control (other than he supports it because he's a progressive). Hillary on the other hand can still feel the sting of her husband's beautiful AWB not being renewed. Obama's priorities are along the lines of wealth redistribution, punishing the white west for colonialism and dismantling the power and prestige of the white west. Gun control is a part of that but I don't think he's particularly motivated when it comes to gun control ... if he had to trade away a new gun control law in a deal to hand some of our sovereignty or wealth away he'd do it.

Hillary has been saber rattling about gun control even when it's obviously hurting her against Bernie (who I think is more like Obama and not as concerned about gun control) and will definitely hurt her in the general. I think she sees the opening that Scalia's death has given the gun control movement and she thinks greasing the skids for more gun control will benefit her.

Too late ... Kagen is clearly a rug muncher.

Why not someone to "Keep Her Company" At that age does the carpet still match the drapes? A unanimous 9 -0 says no ;)