Sikh Guy Sports Beard and Turban in US Army

[KAPA]

This first was reported on April 1 so I thought it was an April Fool's thing... Yet here it is today and I just realized this is real!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/us/sikh-army-captain-simratpal-singh-beard-turban/index.html

Been about 20 years since I have had a gas mask on so maybe they have improved them for beards, but I am pretty sure that towel isn't stopping a bullet.

I have heard people say that Navy Seals like Chris Kyle have been sporting beards for years but they are doing that to blend in, this guy has a different reason as evidence by the cover.

"To hell with uniform, my beard and turban is more important to me!"

[Zundfolge]

My respect for Sikhs in general makes me not care if he wants to wear his turban and beard with his uniform. They're generally good people and good soldiers ... and you don't EVER have to worry about them taking the side of the evil muzloids we're fighting (unlike the clean shaven white atheist liberals from California). Does he also get to wear his Kirpan?

[Irving]

Very old news. There was a report on this several years ago on here.

[Doc45]

Non issue, next.

[funkymonkey1111]

This first was reported on April 1 so I thought it was an April Fool's thing... Yet here it is today and I just realized this is real!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/us/sikh-army-captain-simratpal-singh-beard-turban/index.html

Been about 20 years since I have had a gas mask on so maybe they have improved them for beards, but I am pretty sure that towel isn't stopping a bullet.

I have heard people say that Navy Seals like Chris Kyle have been sporting beards for years but they are doing that to blend in, this guy has a different reason as evidence by the cover.

"To hell with uniform, my beard and turban is more important to me!"

so?

they don't care for muslims, and that's fine with me.

[spqrzilla]

Sikhs got style.

[roberth]

This is a non-issue.


Sikhs got style.

Yes they do.

[newracer]

Limitations were set.

"While assigned or performing non-hazardous duties, you may wear a beard, turban, and uncut hair in a neat and conservative manner that presents a professional and well-groomed appearance,"

"Because of the Army's interest in mission accomplishment, which requires military readiness, unit cohesion, good order, discipline, health, and safety on both the individual and unit levels, I have requested that your command provide quarterly assessments of the effect of your accommodation, if any, on unit cohesion and morale, good order and discipline, health and safety, and individual and unit readiness."

[Gman]

Sikhs rock! Warriors protecting those that can't defend themselves. You have to respect that.

When I read about this a while back, I learned that there are manufacturers making bullet resistant turbans for them.

[KAPA]

Interesting responses. I always viewed the military's uniform as something that was the same for everyone - no exceptions. Not knocking the guy's religion at all, I don't care what religion we are talking about here, I just value the uniform more than someone's religious expression while on duty. Not to mention the potential safety issues that can come along with these non-standard appearances and clothing.

So with the logic I have seen from above, everyone is fine with a muslim woman wearing a full burka while showing up for formation in the morning. I suspect not, but my point is as soon as you allow this guy to do his own thing, where does the line get drawn?

[Zundfolge]

So with the logic I have seen from above, everyone is fine with a muslim woman wearing a full burka while showing up for formation in the morning. I suspect not, but my point is as soon as you allow this guy to do his own thing, where does the line get drawn?
I don't believe that Muslims should be allowed to serve in our military in any capacity since we are at war with Islam ... my position is grossly politically incorrect and will never become policy but we're in an existential battle here and until we realize that we're doomed.

I don't have a problem accommodating things like hair and beards when it comes to religion as long as it doesn't interfere with his duties nor hide his identity (so if he's a pilot and can't wear a helmet because of the turban then he needs to lose the turban, for example ... also I don't think Rastafarians should be allowed to smoke pot while in the service ... of course joining the military is a violation of Rastafarianism so there you go). I see this as the same kind of thing like putting conscientious objectors into the kitchen or clerical jobs.

[Sawin]

...

So with the logic I have seen from above, everyone is fine with a muslim woman wearing a full burka while showing up for formation in the morning. I suspect not, but my point is as soon as you allow this guy to do his own thing, where does the line get drawn?

I see your point. I hope that any one-off exceptions (religious or not) are on a personal basis only, granted only after extended service (did it not say Singh has served for almost a decade?) that have proven the valor and honor of each exception. That seems to have been the case here.

[KAPA]

I don't have a problem accommodating things like hair and beards when it comes to religion as long as it doesn't interfere with his duties nor hide his identity.

That is the thing there... I was under the impression that everyone in the military be able to don MOP gear and be trained and ready for this situation. Without a clean shave, you can't get a proper seal and in the event of an attack, you are screwed along with potentially costing others their lives too if they are relying on you. But it seems today's military values a beard more than the safety of its soldiers. And for anyone who tells me chemical weapons are no longer used or a threat, I point you to Syria and the potential for an attack domestically that could come at any time.

I just have the feeling that this ruling is not coming from the military but from higher up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOPP

[BushMasterBoy]

At least he ain't some transgender, rainbow flag waving libtard giving away secret documents to wikileaks.

[clublights]

Say what you want but the Skih don't fuck round and this guy is not only a ten year vet .. but a decorated combat vet .. He did something to earn that Bronze Star while playing tin the sandbox of Afghanistan..

[Great-Kazoo]

Interesting responses. I always viewed the military's uniform as something that was the same for everyone - no exceptions. Not knocking the guy's religion at all, I don't care what religion we are talking about here, I just value the uniform more than someone's religious expression while on duty. Not to mention the potential safety issues that can come along with these non-standard appearances and clothing.

So with the logic I have seen from above, everyone is fine with a muslim woman wearing a full burka while showing up for formation in the morning. I suspect not, but my point is as soon as you allow this guy to do his own thing, where does the line get drawn?


It doesn't. UNLESS the person in question wants to wear a confederate flag. THEN [panic]ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.

[roberth]

That is the thing there... I was under the impression that everyone in the military be able to don MOP gear and be trained and ready for this situation. Without a clean shave, you can't get a proper seal and in the event of an attack, you are screwed along with potentially costing others their lives too if they are relying on you. But it seems today's military values a beard more than the safety of its soldiers. And for anyone who tells me chemical weapons are no longer used or a threat, I point you to Syria and the potential for an attack domestically that could come at any time.

I just have the feeling that this ruling is not coming from the military but from higher up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOPP


I understand what you're saying KAPA. Personnel uniformity and the ability to don gear that requires a facial seal means people need to be clean-shaven, these should outweigh any other considerations.

[ChadAmberg]

Not knocking the guy's religion at all, I don't care what religion we are talking about here, I just value the uniform more than someone's religious expression while on duty. Not to mention the potential safety issues that can come along with these non-standard appearances and clothing.

I value the warrior more than the uniform.

[Gman]

The Brits don't seem to get wound up about accommodating the Gurkhas. [Coffee]

[Doc45]

And obviously not everyone looked at the old story but the Captain wears current Army uniforms so that argument is out the window.

[theGinsue]

This is an old story, but it's bothered me since I first heard about it a couple/few years back.

While I was SD (retired almost 11 years ago), other than Christian chaplains, Christians were not allowed to visibly wear a cross. If worn, they had to be worn concealed under your short/blouse. As far as I know, this hasn't changed, yet accommodations are being made for other religious beliefs?

Christian chaplains aren't allowed to wear their crosses on their uniforms, nor be in possession of a bible while off base while assigned to Saudi Arabia. Do the Sikhs get to wear their non-muslim religious items while off base in Saudi?

I have no objections to Sikh's, but in the military, uniformity is an essential element to maintaining morale, unit cohesion and discipline. When you start making exceptions for one reason or another you risk destroying each of these things which puts the ability to accomplish the mission in jeopardy.

Just my personal opinion after serving for 20 years and supporting shoulder to shoulder with those still serving for 10 years as a .mil contractor.

[Guylee]

I'm cool with it. Sikhs are badass.

[theGinsue]

Yes, in Saudi, it's Saudi law - punishable by beheading. But I still wonder what their perspective is on the Sikh's.

That still fails to address the issue that Christians can't wear their crosses visibly while Sikh's are not permitted to visibly wear their articles of faith.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I have nothing but respect for Sikhs so didn't think this was newsworthy when I saw it. As was noted, the permission came with conditions AND is going to be revisited in a year. The guy is just trying to live according to his religious faith while upholding what he feels is a duty to the country. More power to him, we need more of that.

[KAPA]

in the military, uniformity is an essential element to maintaining morale, unit cohesion and discipline. When you start making exceptions for one reason or another you risk destroying each of these things which puts the ability to accomplish the mission in jeopardy.

Just my personal opinion after serving for 20 years and supporting shoulder to shoulder with those still serving for 10 years as a .mil contractor.

Thank you. That is what being uniform is all about. It is not just about wearing the same dress.

Frankly I am blown away by all the people saying "Oh Sikhs are badass, I am fine with that". You can't make rules based off of how cool you think someone is or even if they served ten years and got a bronze star. That defeats the purpose of being uniform. Picking and choosing is a slippery slope and it will bite you far more often than it will help you.

[Guylee]

Maybe he should just go to SF, CAG, RECCE, PSYOPS, or any of the other multiple units where beards and funny hats are totally acceptable.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I'm fine with religious exemptions being made for people of any faith, with operational needs coming first.

Chaplains DO wear the symbol of their faith on their uniforms.

The Air Force policy is for the member to submit a religious waiver request. The manual also states that these request should generally be approved unless there is an impact on safety or there are other military readiness issues. The Navy is similar but more strict in that the waiver has to go to the SECNAV. Religious jewelry follows the same rules as regular jewelry.

[Aloha_Shooter]

His waiver included caveats about not interfering with his ability to wear a gas mask or perform his other duties. His record indicates he has put the mission first throughout his career, he sought the exemption when he found out he might not need to deny the articles of his faith in order to execute his mission. On the list of things that destroy unit morale and cohesion, allowing someone to grow a beard and wear items required by his faith is pretty low on my list. I seem to recall the Navy allowing beards for a short period while I was on AD and in fact I had one seaman working for me who had a medical clearance for light facial hair (he had a condition where he risked the hair curling and growing under the outer layer of skin).

I recall a certain former Chief of Staff of the Army who placed a real premium on uniformity. So much so, he was bound and determined to make sure everyone in the Army was wearing black berets before he retired even if he had to contract with the PRC to get them in quickly. I recall another former Chief of Staff of the Air Force who also placed a premium on uniformity and did his damnedest to get everyone in the Air Force to look like we worked for American Airlines before he retired. Both moves were SO great for morale ...

[Sarcasm2]

[Guylee]

Nah, he just felt like knocking on a certain unit that already wore black berets, which subsequently switched to tan berets [Coffee]

[speedysst]

The slippery slope continues...

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/11/army-lets-three-more-sikh-soldiers-wear-turban-beard-long-hair.html?ESRC=army_160412.nl

[Aloha_Shooter]

When I was in not that long ago...nobody was allowed to have any religous item visible. crosses could be worn under your shirt, but not showing. only chaplains had their insignia on their collar.

I have seen practicing Jews wearing yarmulkes in uniform. They had essentially the same waiver with the same stipulations about not interfering with their duties as this guy. Those who claim to worship a flying spaghetti monster can apply for the same waivers but I think they'll have a tougher time showing how the colander doesn't interfere with their duties.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I've known a few folks with "FSM" as their religion on their dog tags.