Amendment 69

[DavieD55]

Anyone heard about this scam? It will be on the November ballot and is being marketed as the solution to barrycare...

It will add 25 billion dollars to the state budget that would essentially double the state budget. the revenue will come from a 10% state tax increase with 6.67% paid by employers and a 3.33% paid by employees. It will be managed by a non-profit cooperative unelected unaccountable 21 member board that would be able to raise taxes on a whim. From what I understand, the tax starts out a 10%, but can be incresed wit no way to hold the tax hikers accountable.

[Zundfolge]

its socialized medicine pure and simple ... like Canada or the UK ... carved into the state constitution.

Its the death of Colorado.

[hurley842002]

And it will likely pass...

[Irving]

Yikes, I hope not...

[Zundfolge]

Opposition seems to be bi-partisan. Bill Ritter is one of the leaders of the opposition.

http://www.coloradansforcoloradans.com/

Most if not all Republicans will oppose this, so if just 10% of Democrats oppose it, it'll fall (since Colorado is pretty close to 50-50 R vs D)

[Great-Kazoo]

Opposition seems to be bi-partisan. Bill Ritter is one of the leaders of the opposition.

http://www.coloradansforcoloradans.com/

Most if not all Republicans will oppose this, so if just 10% of Democrats oppose it, it'll fall (since Colorado is pretty close to 50-50 R vs D)

CO is known to vote NO on any tax increase.

Unfortunately, The White Guilt, FSA, emotional voter might just get this shit passed. After al it's going to be someone else money. Or so they believe.

Going off another thread (Taxes) wonder how many freeloading fuckers got hit with the aca tax penalty?

[Big E3]

It must be really bad if Tax Ritter is apposed to it. Maybe even he has a limit to how socialist he what this state to be. It'll probably pass with all the Bern support here now.

[68Charger]

That would be enough to decide whether to relocate or not (we're on the fence right now)

That would maybe buy us a few years before that idiocy goes nationwide...

[Great-Kazoo]

It must be really bad if Tax Ritter is apposed to it. Maybe even he has a limit to how socialist he what this state to be. It'll probably pass with all the Bern support here now.

Supposedly they will need $25 Million year 1. With an increase every year after. IIRC there's no cap on taxes / theft for this bill.

Medicare's broke. medicaid is propping up every states health care. They put you in to X group, then give you an allowance of $2-800 per household. So your current Ocare monthly runs $250 - 1K. Depending how many in household. That's with a $3-4K deductible. Which it seems is close to the amount the .fed gov is subsidizing. Go figure.



IF I LIKE MY HEALTH CARE.......................................I'M FUCKED !

[Dave]

That would be enough to decide whether to relocate or not (we're on the fence right now)

That would maybe buy us a few years before that idiocy goes nationwide...

We've been looking at relocating to Boise, even considered it before buying our current house. This passing would be a huge motivation to do so. I'd usually want to wait 5+ years after buying a house before selling, but with the Denver market and all the improvements we've done we'd leave town with an extra 30k after paying the costs to sell.

[Dave_L]

Correct, no cap on future increases and will bypass TABOR. I will not be surprised if this passes.

[Grant H.]

If this passes, I'm leaving CO.

Fawking bleeding heart libtards...

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

We've been looking at relocating to Boise, even considered it before buying our current house. This passing would be a huge motivation to do so. I'd usually want to wait 5+ years after buying a house before selling, but with the Denver market and all the improvements we've done we'd leave town with an extra 30k after paying the costs to sell.


Boise is pretty nice......the working wages are a lot lower in idaho as a whole but it's kind of a trade off since the state doesn't tax you near as bad. Shit is getting ridiculous here though, we wanted to move back to Colorado since I made better money here but it's starting to feel like a loosing battle (maybe we will be neighbors some day LOL).

[Great-Kazoo]

We've been looking at relocating to Boise, even considered it before buying our current house. This passing would be a huge motivation to do so. I'd usually want to wait 5+ years after buying a house before selling, but with the Denver market and all the improvements we've done we'd leave town with an extra 30k after paying the costs to sell.

My cousins place in Boise is or will be up for sale here.

[BPTactical]

Ah yes, the replacement for the failed ACA health care exchanges.
Obamacare, the gift that keeps on giving.......and taking.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Ah yes, the replacement for the failed ACA health care exchanges.
Obamacare, the gift that keeps on giving.......and taking.

Like some aggressive flesh eating herpes...........

[sroz]

the revenue will come from a 10% state tax increase with 6.67% paid by employers and a 3.33% paid by employees.

They had for/against articles in the DP recently & I seem to recall self employed and retirees pay the whole 10%. Guess that would be a mixed bag depending on the income you expect in retirement.

[DavieD55]

If this passes, I'm leaving CO.

Fawking bleeding heart libtards...


They are NOT liberals, they are communists.

[Bailey Guns]

Boise is pretty nice......the working wages are a lot lower in idaho as a whole but it's kind of a trade off since the state doesn't tax you near as bad. Shit is getting ridiculous here though, we wanted to move back to Colorado since I made better money here but it's starting to feel like a loosing battle (maybe we will be neighbors some day LOL).

That amendment is insane and will go a long ways towards bankrupting California East.

Taxes are kinda strange here. Idaho income tax is fairly high (I paid about 7% last year on my Idaho income...but got about half back) and the state sales tax is 6%. On the plus side, you get a homeowner's exemption on the property taxes from your primary residence that can lower your property tax to almost zero in many cases. And it's permanent as long as you live in the home. Ours went from a little over $3000 year to about $1200 year. Homes are just crazy cheap in many parts of the state, some places very near Boise (Nampa, Mtn Home and a few others). Car registration is really cheap. The state taxes food, too, but then gives you a credit on your taxes when you file. Still learning about a lot of the ways in which the state works.

I'm making slightly more here than I did in CO doing the same job for the same company. Wife is making just slightly less (RN...about $1 hr less). With the cost of living so much less, especially in the cost of housing and utilities, we've raised our standard of living significantly over CO.

Far fewer high tech jobs here than CO although Schweitzer Engineering is planning on hiring like 800 people in the Moscow/Pullman (WA) area either this year or next. They have an operation in Lewiston, too. Most jobs in this area are solid blue-collar jobs. I don't know anything about Boise other than it's a really pretty city...very clean and pleasant.

ETA: Off topic but worth mentioning... State Supreme Court justices run for election like other offices here and serve 6 year terms. I like that idea. The one I'm voting for proudly lets it be known he's endorsed by the NRA and other very conservative organizations.

[nogaroheli]

Socialized health care, legal weed, increasing gun laws... it's starting to sound like a young communists wet dream. How long can we hold off on being California part two?

[O2HeN2]

Yhea, GF and I both work for HP (HPE now) here in the 'springs, and we've already decided that if 69 passes we'll be heading to the Boise HPE site faster than you can say "Anyone with money moves out of Colorado".

I always thought that it'd be California that tanked first due to liberal policy, but it's starting to look like Colorado's now in the running.

O2

[Zundfolge]

I wish I could find the numbers of how many people work in the Heath Insurance Industry here in Colorado because if this passes every single one of them will be unemployed ... and that seems like a good angle to attack it from.

I bet it's more than 10,000 Coloradoans.

[Dave]

Yhea, GF and I both work for HP (HPE now) here in the 'springs, and we've already decided that if 69 passes we'll be heading to the Boise HPE site faster than you can say "Anyone with money moves out of Colorado".

I always thought that it'd be California that tanked first due to liberal policy, but it's starting to look like Colorado's now in the running.

O2

California keeps limping along due to creative accounting keeping them afloat and that their tax base includes Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

[Dave_L]

If this passes, the destruction of Colorado will be sped up even faster. Weed and single payer? You thought the influx was bad before...

Meanwhile, all the people NOT wanting the highest tax state tax in the nation will be fleeing the state leaving only the liberals and people that aren't in a position to up and relocate.

[Rucker61]

Yhea, GF and I both work for HP (HPE now) here in the 'springs, and we've already decided that if 69 passes we'll be heading to the Boise HPE site faster than you can say "Anyone with money moves out of Colorado".



I'm an HPI guy, and I wonder what the two HP's are going to do with the HP sites once they start paying more in tax that they might not get back from our medical plan providers. We may not have jobs here, anyway.

[Rucker61]

What happens when folks with no jobs get free medical care and they have a medical marijuana card. Will the State (meaning taxpayers) have to pay for their prescribed weed?

[Great-Kazoo]

What happens when folks with no jobs get free medical care and they have a medical marijuana card. Will the State (meaning taxpayers) have to pay for their prescribed weed?


MEDICAID. Until their live in "partner" starts their $15 min wage job. Then the IRS will take it back. EVERYTHING'S federally funded anyway.

Ins is like a prostrate exam. Doesn't matter who does it. Someone has their hand up your ass.

[Chief_of_Scouts]

After the first time I read Atlas Shrugged, I always wanted to live in Colorado. 18 years ago, I was fortunate enough to get me PCS orders assigning me to Fort Carson. I loved it here so much, I retired in Colorado Springs.

Now, I am watching an accelerated erosion of everything that made Colorado so desirable. Ayn Rand must be rolling in her grave. Anyhow, this may be the nail in the coffin. I will take my six-figure income, and all associated taxes paid, and move to a more freedom respecting state, perhaps Idaho...

Nothing but sadness for this once great state.

[HoneyBadger]

After the first time I read Atlas Shrugged, I always wanted to live in Colorado. 18 years ago, I was fortunate enough to get me PCS orders assigning me to Fort Carson. I loved it here so much, I retired in Colorado Springs.

Now, I am watching an accelerated erosion of everything that made Colorado so desirable. Ayn Rand must be rolling in her grave. Anyhow, this may be the nail in the coffin. I will take my six-figure income, and all associated taxes paid, and move to a more freedom respecting state, perhaps Idaho...

Nothing but sadness for this once great state.

While my timeline only stretches back 9 years instead of your 18, my thoughts are very much the same. Well said.

[Honey Badger282.8]

After the first time I read Atlas Shrugged, I always wanted to live in Colorado. 18 years ago, I was fortunate enough to get me PCS orders assigning me to Fort Carson. I loved it here so much, I retired in Colorado Springs.

Now, I am watching an accelerated erosion of everything that made Colorado so desirable. Ayn Rand must be rolling in her grave. Anyhow, this may be the nail in the coffin. I will take my six-figure income, and all associated taxes paid, and move to a more freedom respecting state, perhaps Idaho...

Nothing but sadness for this once great state.

I grew up here and this isn't the politically purple state I grew up in. The two main reasons I left the Navy was to be closer to family and go to school, if this passes I'll be looking to live elsewhere.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I wish I could find the numbers of how many people work in the Heath Insurance Industry here in Colorado because if this passes every single one of them will be unemployed ... and that seems like a good angle to attack it from.

I bet it's more than 10,000 Coloradoans.

It is way more than that. I worked for two managed care companies locally here for years, and my wife still does.
I honestly don't know how they'd reconcile it with VA benefits, with CMS programs, with the ACA, with CHP, etc.
Yeah, Romneycare and all that, but this would be disastrous.

I honestly had manager level folks working for me who were so deep into the Koolaid and realized it meant their jobs...but liked it anyway.

[Bailey Guns]

I bet it's more than 10,000 Coloradoans.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics it was 191,350 in 2014.

[Zundfolge]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics it was 191,350 in 2014.

You got a link for that ... I'd love to use that one as a bludgeon.

[Jefe's AR]

I grew up here and this isn't the politically purple state I grew up in.

This.

[Wiggity]

Lol CO already has a budget surplus. Not sure why you would raise taxes while having a surplus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bailey Guns]

You got a link for that ... I'd love to use that one as a bludgeon.

Here ya go: http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/total-health-care-employment/

And there you'll find links to the BLS website where you can get additional information and statistics.

[Zundfolge]

Thanks ... unfortunately that's all Health Care Employment, not Health Insurance (but maybe I can find that info on that site)

[Bailey Guns]

Sorry...reading comprehension problems on my end.

[Skip]

Like a lot of you, I may have to leave as well. A lot of the people I work with will have to leave too, some just don't know it yet.

Having a business and wrestling with the costs, healthcare the biggest among them, only makes sense when you can fix the liability and work harder to increase revenue hoping that trickles down to profit. This amendment ties costs to profit (as a %) where small business owners get to fork over 10%. Employed will pay too in stagnant wages, so there won't be a free lunch to be found (for most).

The best part... Employers will probably still have to make FICA payments. So just between FICA/SS and this, we will be pay 22.5% (IIRC). Add in Fed and state income taxes and most will be lucky to walk with 50%. None of that addresses the relatively higher cost of living in CO to include other taxes.

[jaitken0016]

I'm trying to find the bill's sponsor. Anyone have an idea?

[OneGuy67]

I'm trying to find the bill's sponsor. Anyone have an idea?

It isn't a bill, thus no sponsor. It is an initiative called Initiative 20 from ColoradoCare Yes campaign that qualified for the ballot and is now called Amendment 69.

[DavieD55]

It is really not about healthcare as much as it is control. Basically a control apparatus in the guise of free healthcare. A way for the commies to absolutely bankrupt the state, drive our business, create dependency, get those who are unable to relocate under the thumb of politicians who want to control and dominate society.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVaNbflbWBo

[EvilRhino]

It isn't a bill, thus no sponsor. It is an initiative called Initiative 20 from ColoradoCare Yes campaign that qualified for the ballot and is now called Amendment 69.

Spearheaded by Irene Aguilar... the obese doctor...

[DavieD55]

Spearheaded by Irene Aguilar... the obese doctor/state senator...

FIFY

[Skip]

It is really not about healthcare as much as it is control. Basically a control apparatus in the guise of free healthcare. A way for the commies to absolutely bankrupt the state, drive our business, create dependency, get those who are unable to relocate under the thumb of politicians who want to control and dominate society.

[snip vid]

Good video! I get from the more Liberal commentators that this thing should be DOA. But I never underestimate the "free lunch" crowd and their stupidity.

[DavieD55]

What They Claim: It is “Of the People, By the People, For the People”
​
What’s the TRUTH: $37Billion of our taxes and existing healthcare program dollars will go to a Board of Trustees (initially political appointees), who will determine what healthcare services everyone will have access to, who will be paid, when and how much. If we don’t like what the Board is deciding, we cannot recall them! If you don’t like the influence special interests have over our politicians, just wait until all this money is in the hands of 15-21 people!



By the way: this Amendment will tax our senior citizens 10% on their Social Security and retirement funds! So even though they have Medicare, they will have to pay into ColoradoCare! Is that fair?
The same goes for our military!​
What They Claim: “If you don’t vote ‘Yes’ for Amendment 69, you are voting to continue Obamacare”

What’s the TRUTH: The same folks who are sponsoring Amendment 69 thought that Obamacare was wonderful (until we found out it wasn’t). They made the same claims about Obamacare that they are making about Amendment 69! There are lots of other ideas for healthcare reform: ideas that give Coloradoans a lot more choice over their healthcare decisions, and that cost a lot less!

What They Claim: “ColoradoCare will save Colorado $5B over our current healthcare system”
​
What’s the TRUTH: The new taxes are $25B, but the total cost estimate is $37B!! That’s larger than McDonalds and Nike!! And it’s run by 21 people, with NO government oversight!



Can you name ONE instance of a government cost estimate that was accurate??
The taxes used to pay for Amendment 69 can be raised EVERY SINGLE YEAR, and there is no limit on how much they can go up! How many employers and workers do you think will want to come to Colorado then? How many will leave? If employers leave, or if there is another recession, how much more will those of us left here have to pay?

What They Claim: “America is the only wealthy, developed country in the world that doesn’t have some form of Universal Healthcare. It works in all these other countries, so we should do it here”
​
What’s the TRUTH: Every country that has Universal Healthcare has tax rates much, much higher than we do—up to 65%, in order to pay for their healthcare system. The proponents of ColoradoCare never seem to mention this! There are other problems:
​
In Japan, for instance, every primary care doctor sees 100-150 patients PER DAY!! Each patient gets about 3-4 minutes of healthcare at their visit.
​
France spends about what we do here on healthcare, but patients have to face ever-decreasing healthcare benefits because the system can’t pay for itself.
​
Canadians have to wait for months to see a specialist, and over a year for back or hip surgery. Thankfully, they have the option of coming to the US for care, which they frequently do.
​
Swedish hospitals close for 3 months of the year to save money!! Can you imagine? A few hospitals will stay open to take emergency cases, but that’s it.
​
Britain has a committee (NICE) that decides whether a patient can have the treatment they need to live. Is this what you want? To have complete strangers choose whether you live or die?



Also, doctors in Britain are striking right now!
54,000 of them!
The TRUTH is that no country has it right yet, including America. Rather than copy a badly flawed system from someone else, we should be more open to new ideas that allow us MORE choices, not less; MORE control over our healthcare dollars, not less; MORE freedom from political games and special interests, not less!
Watch Dr. Jill Vecchio give a Non-partisan, thorough explanation of PPACA (aka Obamacare) and what it means to all Americans. 7 segments: 1) Who will be covered; 2) and 3) What are the costs 4) State Exchanges and Employers 5) Doctors and Patients; 6) Constitutional issues 7) Ideas for Real Healthcare Reform
What The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) "Obamacare" really says and what it means for all Americans
The Morality

[Great-Kazoo]

Dave55. While i applaud your posting the entire fiasco. One has to remember (well some of us) A Ballot worded like this

“If you don’t vote ‘Yes’ for Amendment 69, you are voting to continue Obamacare”

Is how BGC at gun shows became law. Under the guise of Safety for everyone. The ballot was an overly laden double speak saying we need, we need, on & on. With who knows how many gun owners actually believing it was a Gun Show only ballot. Not realizing, thanks to the thousand word plus deal it classified a gun show as 3 or more people.
So once again the weak and LAZY voted to CLOSE THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE [ROFL2]

By using the Ocare reference who knows how many will check YES, come november.
Look at the number of registered voters to actual turn out. IMO less than 10-15% are making decisions for the rest of us. I for one vote, as often as possible ;)