What happens when you have the weakest leader in the world.

[speedysst]

Are you kidding me? We didnt shoot down Russian fighters that were buzzing our warships? This isnt the first time either yet we just let them do it. I cant wait for that complete wimp to get the hell out of my White House. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/04/13/russian-jets-pass-us-navy-destroyer-at-unsafe-speed-in-baltic-sea-official-says.html?intcmp=hpbt1

[spqrzilla]

Best suggestion that I saw was that next time, the destroyer should launch chaff.

[HoneyBadger]

I can imagine we'd be doing the same (or something much more aggressive) if the Russians had the equivalent of one of our destroyers in the Chesapeake Bay. The article says that our Destroyer came no closer than 70 miles from Kaliningrad - That's easily within attack range of one of Russia's largest naval ports on their West coast. Check out a map. 70 Miles from Baltimore is right in the middle of the Chesapeake. Remember, we have been patrolling our warships right in their backyard for decades. I'm not justifying unsafe flying, but Russia is probably getting sick of our constant provocations.

[ColoradoTJ]

I can imagine we'd be doing the same (or something much more aggressive) if the Russians had the equivalent of one of our destroyers in the Chesapeake Bay. The article says that our Destroyer came no closer than 70 miles from Kaliningrad - That's easily within attack range of one of Russia's largest naval ports on their West coast. Remember, we have been patrolling our warships right in their backyard for decades.

You damn right we would, and have.

[spqrzilla]

Chesapeake Bay is territorial waters. Black Sea is international waters.

[speedysst]

They came within a mile at an altitude of 500 feet of the USS Ronald Reagan last October too. That time we at least scrambled some F/A-18 Hornets. Oh and this time the Russian planes, making simulated attack runs, refused to make radio contact and the USS Donald Cook was in international waters conducting exercises with Poland. Oh so that makes it ok. My bad.

[HoneyBadger]

Chesapeake Bay is territorial waters. Black Sea is international waters.
Fine. Then imagine 70 miles off the coast from Norfolk. No different.

Or, since the Great Lakes are partially international waters, imagine a Russian Destroyer in Lake Huron or Lake Ontario. There would be a real shit-storm.

[HoneyBadger]

Something else I think is significant about this:

"The defense official tells Fox News the Russian jets conducted 20 passes in the Baltic Sea incident Monday, ignoring repeated radio calls from the Navy destroyer. The U.S. Navy was able to take photographs and video of the incident and plans on releasing the footage soon."


This is a very clear propaganda move. They wanted to make sure that it made the news with some good photos to scare the American public.

[SuperiorDG]

Where's Maverick and Goose when you need them.

[beast556]

Im with honey badger on this, just the media making a big deal out of it. If there were Russian war ships on our coast line we would be doing the same shit.

[Aloha_Shooter]

30 years ago, a movie beginning with Tomcats chasing off some MiGs wanting to get close to US ships became one of the biggest recruiting tools the US Navy had ever seen. Today, we let the Russians fly so close they could snuggle with the deck crew.

[BushMasterBoy]

As a admiral mentioned with no weapons visible, no electronic emissions indicating a "lock on", you can't just kill people because they are annoying. I wouldn't be surprised if the aircraft were conducting electronic intelligence on the ship (ELINT). I worked USAF electronic countermeasures and almost every aspect of radar signature parameters was classified. Short of having a Chelsea Manning giving the details away, the only way to gather the data is to have the adversary transmit and then record it with special receivers.

I bet the US Navy crew knew this and did not turn on their weapons systems. Obama is clueless and the Joint Chiefs would own him if hostilities broke out. I fear not. The real war is in the Pentagon, as to who gets the biggest share of the defense budget.

[Rucker61]

30 years ago, a movie beginning with Tomcats chasing off some MiGs wanting to get close to US ships became one of the biggest recruiting tools the US Navy had ever seen. Today, we let the Russians fly so close they could snuggle with the deck crew.

28 years ago, I was in a base camp in Honduras, with our security augmented by a company of local Army. We were talking to one of about his time in the Army. He said the Army came to his village and showed the movie Topgun. When it was over, everyone of the right age got drafted and trucked off right then and there.

[Graves]

Where's Maverick and Goose when you need them.

I think that Goose feller got caught sleepin' on the job.

[BPTactical]

Goose is dead.

[clublights]

buzzing each others ships has been going on ever since naval aviation started.......


We do it to the Russians' they do it to us. we both complain about the other guys doing it .



Here's video of the Aussie's doing it to the Russians .. I didn't feel like looking long enough to find a US P-3 crew doing it ..




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifst9cJdros

[HoneyBadger]

Goose is dead.
[Eek1]

[hollohas]

Didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian jet that did the same thing over one of their ships a few months ago?

Bet the Russians haven't buzzed their ships anymore...just saying.

[Mazin]

Personal attacks will not tolerated in any form on this site.



https://www.ar-15.co/threads/155601-PSA

[HoneyBadger]

Official Navy Release on it, including several videos: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=94170

Edit: Thanks Mazin! [Beer]

[Gman]

Didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian jet that did the same thing over one of their ships a few months ago?
Nope. Border encroachment.

[BPTactical]

Goose is still dead.....



Thanks for reopening this thread.

[ray1970]

You can be my wingman anytime, Bert. [Awesom]

[cstone]

You can be my wingman anytime, Bert. [Awesom]

It always comes back to the [flamingo]

[jhood001]

30 years ago, a movie beginning with Tomcats chasing off some MiGs wanting to get close to US ships became one of the biggest recruiting tools the US Navy had ever seen. Today, we let the Russians fly so close they could snuggle with the deck crew.

30 years ago, we didn't have a joint space venture with the Russians. 30 years ago, we didn't have joint financial interests with the Russians.

Scrambling fighters should be par for the course for such an incursion. Advocating the destruction of Russian aircraft is stupid. I only say that because a first strike by Russia wouldn't consist of a few close passes. It is simply posturing.

What would some of you prefer that our response had been? Destruction of Russian aircraft for taking a close look? What does that lead to? An escalated war in which millions die in the first 30 minutes?

A lot of of us carry. And a great responsibility comes with that when you come across a total asshole that is trying to provoke a fist fight with you. Those of us that carry responsibly know that an act of violence will be effectively, and overwhelmingly responded to with a higher level of force. The asshole is playing games. Those of us that carry aren't. And knowing that makes it easy to walk away.

This isn't any different. Let the Russians peacock from time to time. If an actual attack is made, the response will be more than catastrophic.

Of course, no attack will ever be made. They aren't stupid enough to do such a thing. And those much smarter than us who are in charge of defending our country at the highest levels won't react to minor provocations.

Those of you that want a stiffer response can blame that on our commander in chief, but I doubt for a second that Obama was even bothered with a phone call when this thing went down. The bad asses our country has developed handled these things in real-time. And if any real threat was perceived, they would have done exactly what they are trained to do. With our without Obamas blessing.

Politicizing this event is pretty lame. If any of us here wanted a violent response to this provocation, I suggest that you start watching the Kardashians on E. It will provide you with the knee-jerk responsive drama that you seek.

[Fentonite]

It always comes back to the [flamingo]

[ROFL2]

[Bailey Guns]

I got news for some of you guys. We do the same thing. Or at least the same type of things. Not justifying it...just saying that this game has been going on for as long as I've been alive.

Reminds me of this movie:


Captain Ramius: Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary – The American Navy. For forty years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage.

[Gman]

I got news for some of you guys. We do the same thing. Or at least the same type of things. Not justifying it...just saying that this game has been going on for as long as I've been alive.

Reminds me of this movie:

Captain Ramius: Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary – The American Navy. For forty years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage.

It's more fun when you hear it said by a Scotsman. [Coffee]


http://youtu.be/zsC2ETsZL0g

[waxthis]

Im with honey badger on this, just the media making a big deal out of it. If there were Russian war ships on our coast line we would be doing the same shit.

Agreed.

[theGinsue]

It's more fun when you hear it said by a Scotsman. [Coffee]


http://youtu.be/zsC2ETsZL0g

Funny thing, even before I saw your post I read it in my head in Connery's Scottish brogue.

[Dave]

He actually requested a flyby, but was told the pattern was full. [Tomcat]

[Bailey Guns]

It's more fun when you hear it said by a Scotsman. [Coffee]

A Russian Scotsman? :)

[Martinjmpr]

He actually requested a flyby, but was told the pattern was full. [Tomcat]

MAVERICK!!!!

[Martinjmpr]

He actually requested a flyby, but was told the pattern was full. [Tomcat]

Also that Russian pilot is now flying rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.

[BPTactical]

And Goose is still dead...

[thvigil11]

And Goose is still dead...

"Sir, you have to let him go."

[thvigil11]

How fast do you think Jodie jumped on the lonely navy widow that was 80's Meg Ryan.

[BushMasterBoy]

Secretary of State made a statement...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/04/15/kerry-says-us-navy-destroyer-couldve-shot-down-russian-warplanes.html

[Dave]

And Goose is still dead...
I thought he was president of the greek counsel?

[Aloha_Shooter]

I'm not in the "shoot 'em down" camp but I think in another time we would driven them off before letting them get so close by using it as a "training opportunity" for our own fighters and gunners. One of the problems with appearing weak in a situation like this is that it actually encourages the bullies to get louder and more obstreperous. North Korea and Iran got really quiet and stopped being so provocative when Bush the Younger called them the "Axis of Evil". Iran still called us the Great Satan but they started behaving a lot better and they released our hostages when Reagan was elected to replace Jimmy "stern letter" Carter.

It is a paradox of human nature that you increase the chances of conflict when you appear to be willing to trade anything for "peace" and you decrease the chances of conflict when it appears you're ready to give any bully a bloody nose (or worse). Peace through Strength -- it worked for us for 200 years.

[yz9890]

http://youtu.be/80TKzCMHHn0

[Kaiser.Shooter]

They photographed the close by flying aircraft...
64940
Then, they zoomed in the cockpit and saw a pilot...
64941