Some random thoughts on "weight"

[Doc45]

Not much else to do with the weather like it is and something popped into my tired old brain.

I've heard and read a lot about the latest and greatest "lightweight" products for the AR. Now, I don't know about you guys but for me the days of humping around with a slung rifle are far behind me. I've got a nice discreet carry bag for the carbine that goes into the truck (and locks in out of sight). I go to the range with it, keep it handy around the house and take an "urban" rifle class now and then. It wears a M4 RAS, sopmod stock, Aimpoint and flashlight. All of the ones I've owned have been set-up mostly the same.

This is one weapon where weight is not an issue for me. I can see if I was on patrol etc with it constantly slung I'd be more interested in saving a pound here or there but it's not like the base gun is a Garand or M1A. Maybe it's just me.

Now for a pistol I'm completely in line with keeping it lighter. Hell, it's always there so I do want something a little lighter as I approach my 6th decade of being a general pain in the ass. The Colt Defender I recently picked up is probably the ideal pistol for me to tote 90% of the time. I guess that's why I also like the M&P 9mm full size. Even with 18 rounds in it, in a proper holster it's still a fairly lightweight pistol. Now again it's because I always have one with me and I guess if I always carried the carbine I'd feel differently.

Maybe I'm just turning into a curmudgeon.......nah, I've always been grumpy.

Well that's what happens when there's so much snow and I sit around thinking too much.

Time to go brush off the truck, head out for my Sunday morning ritual of reading the paper over a cup of coffee and a bagel. Have a great day everybody and watch your backs when you're moving this heavy snow around!

[ray1970]

Coffee and a bagel sounds yummy. Might have to see if I can pry my wife away from the house.

[Aloha_Shooter]

As you say, it depends on use. Things would be very different if I was humping it but since I don't usually have to carry my rifles very far, a little mass actually makes for a more stable shooting platform. For IPSC, I like the basic 1911 but I prefer a lighter pistol that won't pull my pants (or shorts) down for CCW. Just had Johnny cakes and some of my maple bacon so I guess it's time to put some warm clothes on and start clearing the driveway ...

[Bailey Guns]

I've gone full circle on rifles. First AR was an original Colt Car-15 with 2-position stock, pencil barrel, A1 configuration. Then carried professionally with lights, rails, etc...and various other "tactical" crap I tried. Most of it isn't for me. I'm back to where I started. Favorite is the Sporter that's almost exactly like the early Car-15 carbine. But I have a 6520 Gov't Carbine that's similar but with 4-position stock and A2 features that I keep ready around the house. No options other than a standard, old-style, web sling. Simpler and lighter is just better for me.

Same in the handgun. Either a Glock 19 Gen 2 or 43.

I just prefer to keep it as simple as possible.

[Great-Kazoo]

Maybe I'm just turning into a curmudgeon.......nah, I've always been grumpy.

it's sunday so i'll let my alternate sig line theft slide ;)


For daily carry it's a s&w snubbie. But... been considering a LCR for that extra ounce or so of savings. I've found the lighter the gun, the higher the recoil. So one has to decide which is more important. Weight or follow up shots.

[Kraven251]

I've seen well built AR's in a 14.5 configuration come in under 6 pounds with a 30rnd magazine. It was complete with optics, full bolt carrier and all of the standard optics, sights, light etc. That said most of my AR's that are my go to rifles are just at 9 pounds, but I still have a troy alpha rail on one of them and that thing is a club, but I haven't had any reason to update any of it, because honestly it works.

I typically carry that in its bag with 7 mags, a spare bcg, cleaning kit, and my multitasker s3. So all in all I'm humping around 20 pounds give or take ...that will take its toll on you over time, but save a situation I should have avoided, I have what I need.

[roberth]

I recently built an upper using the BCM KMR Alpha and it was really light, I'm thinking about using that handguard on a couple of others but....they work fine, just heavier.

[kwando]

4lb 13oz rifle (non SBR) -> http://www.hunterrifleworks.com/csat

[Bailey Guns]

^^ Wow! For $2600 - or $1800 difference - I'll deal with a few extra ounces on my stock Colt.

[whitewalrus]

For a range toy, who cares about the weight? If you will be hunting with it or daily carry, the weight will add up fast. Lighter guns are also better for teaching kids.

I have builds from light to no way I'd hump it more than a mile. Just depended on the reason I was building it for.

[lex137]

I've always been concerned about weight the lighter the better, why cause I'm not a big guy and I can't haul that much weight. Yeah you could say pull your skirt up and suck it up, but if I'm to tired to shoot because my rifle weighs a ton than why do I even have it, mine as well just pack the pistol only. I try to always buy the lightest guns and gear if I can.

[kwando]

I recently built an upper using the BCM KMR Alpha and it was really light, I'm thinking about using that handguard on a couple of others but....they work fine, just heavier.


Wish BCM would release their original KMR again. You think the Alpha is light, feel the original

Lightest rifle I have is my 11.5 SBR (BFH barrel, shaved FSB) with 10" KMR rail @ 6lb 5.0oz with DD fixed front and KAC rear. Add what I normally run (Scout M600, Aimpoint micro) and it brings the weight up to 7lb 0.8oz.

I took Kelly's 2day carbine class with it and a suppressor and the arms/shoulders were sore at the end of each day.

[lex137]

^^^ that's going to be my problem my can weighs 20.7 oz, ouch didn't thing about that when I bought it... I'm trying to build a really light sbr to make up for it.

roberth try bootleg tactical they use the same mounting hardwear as bcm's and they have a nice picatinny/keymod in the same section
https://bootleginc.com/product/bootleg-handguard/

i thought about this hand guard but my can won't fit inside of it

[kwando]

Don't go MAG Tactical for lowers, I've seen too many break.

[lex137]

I got a spikes upper and lower (badger)

[Zundfolge]

The big problem with the super light ARs (sub 4.5lb) is that they're light which is great of carrying and for transitioning between multiple targets, but they're also usually very fragile. Drop one and its done.

I've been kicking around the idea of building a sub 5 lb rifle but I also want an AR to be as durable as my 7lb gun. This is why I think a Tavor would be a nice middle ground. It'll weigh as much as my AR but most of that weight will be close to the body so it'll handle like a real light AR but carry like a regular one. Another thought is an AR pistol because if SHTF I don't care what the ATF says about shouldering a SIG brace.

I bet the old timers look at us complaining about a 7lb-8lb AR and shake their heads thinking back to the ten pounds of M14 they humped through the jungle :p

[lex137]

^^^ no shit, I'm sure they would tell us to suck it up for sure, were softer (me included) than those men back in the days, they were built like brick house shit houses while we're the new plastic version....

[ruthabagah]

well: used to think that I could carry a heavy rifle all day, just like when I was in the army 25 years ago, so I did not care much about weight in my build. I made them all super sturdy and with all the tacticool accessories that would make me a better bench shooter...

Then I started playing airsoft, where i did the same mistake, and quickly realized that if I really needed to fight for my life, I would need something i can fight with, run with, roll and hide behind cover if i had to and do this all day...

Gone are the heavy build, the fancy red dots and other accessories. I go light, sturdy, basic.

[Doc45]

I bet the old timers look at us complaining about a 7lb-8lb AR and shake their heads thinking back to the ten pounds of M14 they humped through the jungle :p

Hah!! I guess that's a more concise way of making my point. :D

It's all good, just an observation.

[SA Friday]

Ounces make pounds. Pounds make pain.

My rifles from 10-15 years ago are very different than that I build today. It's hard to overlook the ease of use and carry of a DD lightweight 16" middy when it shoots just as well as a 15 year old 20" Colt HBAR. Short of M855, the average additional acceleration is about 15 fps per inch of barrel. Owning both barrels, I can attest the accuracy difference is a push. The DD is CHF and chrome lined, can't get any better life span. Why carry the weight? No reason to.

Hand guard weight; die quad rails, die! Half a lb of weight, bu-bye.

Upper and lower weight; forged vs milled. Of equal strength the forged will be lighter.

There's just not a lot of reliable builds that are ultra-light where some of the parts are just too compromised to really rely on, but there are quite a lot of really strong middle of the road weighted parts now a days. You can easily get into a 6lb range optic topped rifle with very high end reliable parts. Longer and heavier barrels do have their place in specialized ARs, but there are just too many good lighter options out there to lug around a 9 lb AR if you don't want to.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Maybe I'm just turning into a curmudgeon.......nah, I've always been grumpy.

it's sunday so i'll let my alternate sig line theft slide ;)


For daily carry it's a s&w snubbie. But... been considering a LCR for that extra ounce or so of savings. I've found the lighter the gun, the higher the recoil. So one has to decide which is more important. Weight or follow up shots.

.357 hurts a little, .38+P not bad.......haven't shot a lot of snub revolvers to compare it to but I think you might be surprised if your comparing it to a metal j frame.

[HoneyBadger]

Am I the only one glad that this wasn't another drama-filled crossfit thread? ;)

My ARs range from 5lb 4oz to 9lb 11oz. Different rifles for different missions.

[Great-Kazoo]

Am I the only one glad that this wasn't another drama-filled crossfit thread? ;)

My ARs range from 5lb 4oz to 9lb 11oz. Different rifles for different missions.


YOU EVEN LIFT, BRO !

cause i know your phone ain't worken

[Great-Kazoo]

.357 hurts a little, .38+P not bad.......haven't shot a lot of snub revolvers to compare it to but I think you might be surprised if your comparing it to a metal j frame.


Having the opportunity to road test a LCR some time back, i was impressed. Under the impression weight wise (feeling how light it is) it would recoil like the S&W airlight's. Not at all. Just wasn't in the budget at the time.

[Erni]

Seriously, DYEDL, bro?

I think part of it is balance and not just weight. The nose heavy ARs are a bear, the well balanced ones feel lighter than they are. For instance a quad rail mid weight vs 20" A1.
Tots agree that the quad rails need to die, and be replaced by the mlock or keymod.

The lighter the AR the more ammo you can shlep, unless it is broken.

So what is a good setup for a lightish AR, that is a good balance of weight and reliability?
[emoji507]

[dan512]

Not to derail this thread too much but...
To the OP, you mentioned having a case that locks your rifle in the car. Can you expand on that? I am curious what you are using. Feel free to pm me.

[Great-Kazoo]

Seriously, DYEDL, bro?

I think part of it is balance and not just weight. The nose heavy ARs are a bear, the well balanced ones feel lighter than they are. For instance a quad rail mid weight vs 20" A1.
Tots agree that the quad rails need to die, and be replaced by the mlock or keymod.

The lighter the AR the more ammo you can shlep, unless it is broken.

So what is a good setup for a lightish AR, that is a good balance of weight and reliability?
[emoji507]

14" faxon .625 barrel, choice of lower, minimalist buttstock, carbon fiber hand guard, flip up sights. Pick a rds, if you like. It's even lighter once you've sent that $200 out for your stamp.

You could run a 11.5" bbl instead, maybe those magpul slim line hand guards. It's what one's comfortable with. Currently replacing a 12" cut down stag M-4 with that faxon on the wife's SBR. She has 200 rounds tops on it. But, nooooo wants lighter. This already has a cavarms lower, carbon arms tube, TBAC brake for when she absconds with my ultra-7 can.

[HoneyBadger]

YOU EVEN LIFT, BRO !

cause i know your phone ain't worken
Did you call? I turn my phone off when I'm sleeping, especially after I work night shifts. I got sick of my mom pocket-dialing me in the middle of the day. [Roll1]

I'll ring ya in a bit.

[SA Friday]

14" faxon .625 barrel, choice of lower, minimalist buttstock, carbon fiber hand guard, flip up sights. Pick a rds, if you like. It's even lighter once you've sent that $200 out for your stamp.

You could run a 11.5" bbl instead, maybe those magpul slim line hand guards. It's what one's comfortable with. Currently replacing a 12" cut down stag M-4 with that faxon on the wife's SBR. She has 200 rounds tops on it. But, nooooo wants lighter. This already has a cavarms lower, carbon arms tube, TBAC brake for when she absconds with my ultra-7 can.

First world problems.