View Full Version : What is libertarianism
As more and more people, often fed up by the 2 major parties inside the US, explore libertarianism, we need to be able to share what it is. In short, it isn't a single unified view. The term libertarian is a big tent term for inside libertarianism you will find 3 main groups (and countless smaller ones):
Classical liberals - aka the American founding fathers and other philosophical descendants of John Locke (and others). These people want to return to a Constitutional approach to government, or seeing how the Constitution failed to constrain government (like the anti-Federalists said would happen), reduce the scope and powers of the Federal government while still allowing wide state governmental powers. This group has a lot of overlap with small government Republicans. Rand Paul and the current LP presidential candidates probably fit in this area.
Minarchists - people who believe that common defense and courts (and maybe some roads and maybe a few other things) cannot be provided voluntarily so we need a government with taxing power to provide them, but all else should be left to the voluntary exchange of the market. This position could summed up by Bastiat in his work "The Law." Ron Paul probably fits best in this area.
Anarcho-Capitalists (aka Voluntarists) - people who believe that all things should be left to the market and that there should be no state monopoly on things like civil defense, justice, etc. Government means force and using such force against people who have not done wrong is wrong in and of itself. Rothbard's works are descriptive of this view.
65515
Even inside these groups, there are pragmatists and purists. Pragmatists are much more willing to aid incremental changes that make us more free while purists often refuse to vote or be part of the system.
The Libertarian Party welcomes this variety. While we don’t all agree on the scope of government we’d have in a perfect society, we all agree that there is too much government today and thus are allied in reducing government at all levels. We seek less government and more freedom in both the social and economic realms.
Good breakdown.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Interesting. I guess I learn Minarchist. I think everything should be voluntary except for the things that get the country burned to the ground. Want a social safety net? Pay into and have it, or not and don't; your choice.
But I'd settle for Classical Liberal (assuming no gun control).
https://youtu.be/trNtNbmnGUo
Nothing pisses me off more than toll roads.
Great-Kazoo
05-20-2016, 22:42
Nothing pisses me off more than troll toads.
For those of you that think voting for the Libertarian is a vote for Hillary (hint: its not)
http://nypost.com/2016/06/11/hillary-sinks-to-third-place-among-independent-voters-poll/
Hillary sinks to third place among independent voters: poll (http://nypost.com/2016/06/11/hillary-sinks-to-third-place-among-independent-voters-poll/)
It looks like Hillary Clinton can’t swing the crucial swing vote.
The presumptive Democratic presidential nominee took a beating from independent voters in the latest Fox News poll, finishing third behind relatively unknown Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson.
GOP candidate Donald Trump led among independents with 32 percent of the vote, followed by Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico, who got 23 percent.
Clinton pulled in just 22 percent of the independents — a sign many voters are skeptical of the scandal-scarred former first lady and ex-secretary of state.
“This is very bad news for Hillary Clinton,” Republican strategist Susan Del Percio said. “She needs independents to win in November.”
The poll, released Friday, gave Clinton a 3-point national lead overall. She bested Trump 42 percent to 39 percent in a theoretical matchup. But Clinton’s lead is within the Fox poll’s margin of error.
The poll also showed a drop in overall support for Trump, Del Percio noted.
“Both candidates must start to broaden their support beyond their base, and hope that Governor Johnson’s campaign on the Libertarian line does not gain steam.”
Another pollster said Johnson voters could prove pivotal this election year.
“Don’t underestimate the importance of the Libertarian vote,” said Tim Malloy of the Quinnipiac University Poll.
“They are not on the fence — they are not going to budge. And they could make all the difference in a close election.”
Fox’s poll found equal levels of party loyalty among Democrat and Republican responders — so winning independents could equal victory in November.
Meanwhile, in a Harris Poll of unemployed people released last week, half said they prefer one of the major parties’ presumptive nominees: 27 percent plan to vote for Clinton and 23 percent favor Trump.
Overwhelming majorities said they feel insecure (76 percent), angry (72 percent), or desperate (71percent).
Aloha_Shooter
06-14-2016, 06:24
For those of you that think voting for the Libertarian is a vote for Hillary (hint: its not)
http://nypost.com/2016/06/11/hillary-sinks-to-third-place-among-independent-voters-poll/
Hillary sinks to third place among independent voters: poll (http://nypost.com/2016/06/11/hillary-sinks-to-third-place-among-independent-voters-poll/)
It looks like Hillary Clinton can’t swing the crucial swing vote.
The presumptive Democratic presidential nominee took a beating from independent voters in the latest Fox News poll, finishing third behind relatively unknown Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson.
GOP candidate Donald Trump led among independents with 32 percent of the vote, followed by Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico, who got 23 percent.
Clinton pulled in just 22 percent of the independents — a sign many voters are skeptical of the scandal-scarred former first lady and ex-secretary of state.
“This is very bad news for Hillary Clinton,” Republican strategist Susan Del Percio said. “She needs independents to win in November.”
The poll, released Friday, gave Clinton a 3-point national lead overall. She bested Trump 42 percent to 39 percent in a theoretical matchup. But Clinton’s lead is within the Fox poll’s margin of error.
The poll also showed a drop in overall support for Trump, Del Percio noted.
“Both candidates must start to broaden their support beyond their base, and hope that Governor Johnson’s campaign on the Libertarian line does not gain steam.”
Another pollster said Johnson voters could prove pivotal this election year.
“Don’t underestimate the importance of the Libertarian vote,” said Tim Malloy of the Quinnipiac University Poll.
“They are not on the fence — they are not going to budge. And they could make all the difference in a close election.”
Fox’s poll found equal levels of party loyalty among Democrat and Republican responders — so winning independents could equal victory in November.
Meanwhile, in a Harris Poll of unemployed people released last week, half said they prefer one of the major parties’ presumptive nominees: 27 percent plan to vote for Clinton and 23 percent favor Trump.
Overwhelming majorities said they feel insecure (76 percent), angry (72 percent), or desperate (71percent).
... and yet, the libertarians and NeverTrump Republicans in that poll would give Hillary the election. Woodrow Wilson and Bill Clinton both won election by pluralities, not majorities, thanks to the third party vote. Makes you think perhaps that the money Clinton spent on dirty tricks that were exposed to Perot as if it was Bush running them on him was money well spent. Even the article you cited states the impact (emphasized in red).
Many WILL NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP. It is like being asked to cut off your right arm or your left arm when you're not sure what you did to get either cut off to begin with. Trump and Hillary are the same coin, different sides. Why not vote for somebody you can mostly agree with rather than the lesser of two evils. This lesser of two evils approach is why we keep getting the same failures in Government cycle after cycle. If you vote for Trump you might as well just sign over the pink slip to the Replublican party because it will never be relevant again between the ostracizing of minorities, pissing off women, flipping on gun control to flipping on damn near every other topic. The only thing holding back the Libertarian party is the failure of Americans to believe in the process and actually vote for the candidate they most agree with instead of the one they think will win. People need to grow a pair and be true Americans before both the Republican and Democrat parties destroy what that means.
For those of you that think voting for the Libertarian is a vote for Hillary (hint: its not)
Either the D or the R is going to win the election.
A single vote for R nullifies a single vote for D.
A single vote for L does NOT nullify a single vote for D and therefore results in "a vote for Hillary."
SamuraiCO
06-15-2016, 13:01
If Hillary wins no doubt her SCOTUS nominee will effectively reverse the last positive gun rulings we have had.
If Hillary wins no doubt her SCOTUS nominee will effectively reverse the last positive gun rulings we have had.
Yup. The (D) does not respect private property rights or any natural right for that matter.
That's because they don't know where natural rights come from.
That's because they don't know where natural rights come from.
True, they think the government grants rights. LOL The government controls natural rights, government has been successful everywhere but here in the good ol' USA where natural rights are affirmed.
Remember that if Trump puts an Anti-Gun judge on the Supreme Court. If enough people show support for "L" it could mean votes are taken from both sides. Regardless, this cycle sucks for choices and that is saying something compared to what we have seen in the past cycles.
Either the D or the R is going to win the election.
A single vote for R nullifies a single vote for D.
A single vote for L does NOT nullify a single vote for D and therefore results in "a vote for Hillary."
Either the D or the R is going to win the election.
A single vote for R nullifies a single vote for D.
A single vote for L does NOT nullify a single vote for D and therefore results in "a vote for Hillary."
What if you don't want the R's to win?
Bailey Guns
06-15-2016, 19:52
What if you don't want the R's to win?
No shit. Isn't there a "Re-Do" button somewhere we can push?
Either the D or the R is going to win the election.
A single vote for R nullifies a single vote for D.
A single vote for L does NOT nullify a single vote for D and therefore results in "a vote for Hillary."
Does a single vote for L nullify a 1/2 vote for the D and a 1/2 vote for R? Might still be worth it.
Truth be told, I haven't looked at any of the L candidates yet, or any candidates actually.
I don't think the Republicans represent me so I will not be voting for them. The Colorado Republican Party seems especially inept. If they would like to change that then great, but I need to see action instead of hollow words. I don't even like the Libertarian ticket this year. I would much rather vote for them and "throw my vote away", than vote for giant douche or turd sandwich. No one owns my vote or even deserves it, they need to work for it and so far they are failing.
hollohas
06-21-2016, 11:43
The chart in the OP doesn't give a fair shake regarding how far socialist modern liberalism is. For example, modern liberalism does provide food and housing on a fairly far reaching basis.
ChadAmberg
06-21-2016, 22:13
From what I understand from current polling, the Libertarian vote is pulling more from the D side than the R side.
Libertarian town hall tonight.. Very good.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/22/politics/gary-johnson-bill-weld-town-hall/index.html
hollohas
06-22-2016, 20:01
Gary Johnson may seem ok, but William Weld is not. He's pro AWB and he endorsed Obama. Weld pushed for electric car mandates and is on record supporting eminent domain. Anyone who says they are libertarian, but then picks a running mate with that very non-libertarian record, can't be trusted.
No thanks.
Gary Johnson may seem ok, but William Weld is not. He's pro AWB and he endorsed Obama. Weld pushed for electric car mandates and is on record supporting eminent domain. Anyone who says they are libertarian, but then picks a running mate with that very non-libertarian record, can't be trusted.
No thanks.
I cant stand Weld either. But he was voted for..
That said, both Hilary and Trump are pro-AWB - the Libertarian party, as a whole, is overwhelmingly not.
I cant stand Weld either. But he was voted for..
That said, both Hilary and Trump are pro-AWB - the Libertarian party, as a whole, is overwhelmingly not.
[fail]
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights
GUN AND MAGAZINE BANS. Gun and magazine bans are a total failure. That’s been proven every time it’s been tried. Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like “assault weapons”, “military-style weapons” and “high capacity magazines” to confuse people. What they’re really talking about are popular semi-automatic rifles and standard magazines that are owned by tens of millions of Americans. Law-abiding people should be allowed to own the firearm of their choice. The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.
hollohas
06-22-2016, 20:34
You said Trump so davsel's ears starting burning.
Trump is an opportunist and as such, he changes his "opinion" on subjects however he sees fit that it will benefit him. And that's true of the AWB. First he was for it but now that he's running as a republican, he's against it. Just like a true politician, he's a walking flip-flop.
He can't be trusted either even though he says the right things on his website.
DenverGP
06-22-2016, 20:43
[fail]
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights
Well, thats what he put on his website... Not sure I believe that's what be actually believes, but I'd still take my chances on him over hillary any day of the week. This is one time I think hillary would actually keep her word and attempt to completely ban guns as she's said many times.
Doesn't really matter who the libertarian candidate is, they don't have a shot at getting elected. Most people I know who plan on voting libertarian are doing so to send a message and to hopefully increase the libertarian status for the next cycle.
I was a rubio or cruz supporter (most electable out of the options we were presented with), was willing to vote trump once he was close to securing the nomination and the GOP establishment started sounding like the dems attacking trump. Trump's latest public displays he's looking more and more like the clown his opponents claim he is. If he doesn't turn it around, start taking this shit a little more seriously, I'll skip the presidential vote completely for the first time in my life.
. If he doesn't turn it around, start taking this shit a little more seriously, I'll skip the presidential vote completely for the first time in my life.
Instead of not voting, why not vote for the party that most resembles your political views - even if it isn't a perfect match. "I'm going to take my ball and go home - that will teach them."
Trump is an opportunist and as such, he changes his "opinion" on subjects however he sees fit that it will benefit him. And that's true of the AWB. First he was for it but now that he's running as a republican, he's against it. Just like a true politician, he's a walking flip-flop.
He can't be trusted either even though he says the right things on his website.
^^ THIS ^^
Trump will sell us out at the first politically appropriate time that suits him.
DenverGP
06-22-2016, 23:38
Trump will sell us out at the first politically appropriate time that suits him.
In my opinion, the lib party already has with the pick of weld.
RblDiver
06-23-2016, 01:50
I'm curious if you've heard of Liberland. I think it's probably never going to really get off the ground, but I can hope!
The ONLY way at this point I'd vote for Trump is if he expressed full support for Liberland and pledged that as president he'd formally recognize and back it. Then I'd vote for him.
Otherwise, I wasn't going to vote for Johnson, but when I learned that he's pledged support for Liberland, I guess I'll vote for him after all.
Aloha_Shooter
06-23-2016, 06:08
Sounds like 1992 all over again. Just enough temper tantrums over the GOP candidate's imperfections to put a Clinton in the White House. Just remember this when we get Hillarycare 2017 and the non-expiring AWB of 2018.
RblDiver
06-23-2016, 09:28
When the candidate can't tell the difference between himself and the socialist candidate...that's more than an "imperfection."
I'm curious if you've heard of Liberland. I think it's probably never going to really get off the ground, but I can hope!
The ONLY way at this point I'd vote for Trump is if he expressed full support for Liberland and pledged that as president he'd formally recognize and back it. Then I'd vote for him.
Otherwise, I wasn't going to vote for Johnson, but when I learned that he's pledged support for Liberland, I guess I'll vote for him after all.
Liberland seems an odd place to draw your line in the sand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland
And, if you wish to move to a mythical land in Europe, why do you need the support of the U.S. President?
DenverGP
08-12-2016, 14:54
Bill Weld's recent comments on guns:
While discussing his position on gun rights, Weld said that rifles can be turned into weapons of mass destruction, and that handguns are “worse than” semi-automatic rifles.
“The five-shot rifle, that’s a standard military rifle; the problem is if you attach a clip to it so it can fire more shells and if you remove the pin so that it becomes an automatic weapon, and those are independent criminal offenses,” Weld said. “That is when they become, essentially a weapon of mass destruction. The problem with handguns probably is even worse than the problem of the AR15.”
Weld also said he believed no one on a terrorist watch list should be allowed to purchase guns, even though, as the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-list_n_5617599.html) pointed out, it isn’t too hard for an innocent person to end up on the list.
https://revolt.tv/videos/interview-libertarian-vp-nominee-william-weld-561c8a35
Is Bill Weld retarded?
Go ahead Bill, "pull the pin", it'll be automagical... lol.
OneGuy67
08-12-2016, 15:15
Liberland seems an odd place to draw your line in the sand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland
And, if you wish to move to a mythical land in Europe, why do you need the support of the U.S. President?
I'm not getting this either. Seems like a silly thing to base a person's support of a US president over.
For informational purposes only, could someone please tell me which pin I need to pull to achieve full auto? I never knew it was that simple.
I guess I don't need instructions for the rifles since I have handguns that are apparently much deadlier than any rifle.
Also, it's too bad our military only uses rifles that hold five rounds. They'd probably be much more effective if they were allowed to attach a "clip" to those rifles.
[facepalm]
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/11/why-the-libertarians-should-dump-bill-weld/
The (L) should dump Weld and find someone more Libertarian...unless they are trying to capture the idiots who want Bernie.
HoneyBadger
08-12-2016, 20:51
Bill Weld's recent comments on guns:
While discussing his position on gun rights, Weld said that rifles can be turned into weapons of mass destruction, and that handguns are “worse than” semi-automatic rifles.
“The five-shot rifle, that’s a standard military rifle; the problem is if you attach a clip to it so it can fire more shells and if you remove the pin so that it becomes an automatic weapon, and those are independent criminal offenses,” Weld said. “That is when they become, essentially a weapon of mass destruction. The problem with handguns probably is even worse than the problem of the AR15.”
Weld also said he believed no one on a terrorist watch list should be allowed to purchase guns, even though, as the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-list_n_5617599.html) pointed out, it isn’t too hard for an innocent person to end up on the list.
https://revolt.tv/videos/interview-libertarian-vp-nominee-william-weld-561c8a35
Oh that's so disheartening.. :(
That is not even a remotely libertarian view. What a fucking statist.
Could we just start a No Elect list and add all lawyers as the first entries on that list?
Hey Mr. Weld, hold my pin and watch this. [facepalm]
blacklabel
08-12-2016, 22:12
Oh that's so disheartening.. :(
That is not even a remotely libertarian view. What a fucking statist.
No joke. I have no idea how I'm going to vote at this point. Johson/Weld has turned into a bunch of hot topic talking points rather than embodying what libertarianism is and then Weld comes out with this ignorance.
HoneyBadger
08-12-2016, 22:50
Talk about inconsistency:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/21/william-weld-responds-to-libertarian-par
I wrote a piece about the Libertarian approach to the election on my blog... Just a quick bit, and I'm sure nothing new to most here...
https://wordpress.com/post/freedomfactor.wordpress.com/143
They will keep failing, mark my words. I don't want it to be this way, but top down election results don't work, gotta work from the bottom.
DavieD55
08-18-2016, 15:09
Whatever Bill Weld has been smoking must be some really good stuff.
HoneyBadger
08-18-2016, 15:37
Whatever Bill Weld has been smoking must be some really good stuff.
Trying to be a politician and pander to the vulnerable votes... and (unsurprisingly) his efforts just come across as weak-ass bullshit.
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