2 Questions: Bullet trajectory compensation and priority of grip training (2-hand/strong/weak)

[BrianV]

I realize I can Google and read a lot of answers, but part of why I joined the forum was to drive conversation among members. With that said, I'll gladly take links to any blogs/videos that elaborate on the topic (and hopefully other readers will benefit from the same links):

Question 1: Compensating for bullet trajectory

I'm shooting 9mm, 115g...running about 5.2 grains per reload. I've been targeting primarily at 5, 7, and 10 yards. Today, I also added 20 yards based upon some of the pistol drills someone provided me in an earlier post. Up to 10 yards, I seem to be shooting true to where I'm aiming...while still battling the tendency to cluster bottom left of center. However, shooting at 20 yards definitely had everything in the lower left quadrant - and off the target (imagine the size of a paper plate...hitting the rim). Do I need to be compensating for bullet trajectory, or are my mistakes simply being magnified at a greater distance...and trajectory hasn't entered the equation yet?

Question 2: Training grips and stances

My normal grip/stance is a right-handed, 2-hand Weaver stance (and cross-dominant, so sight using left eye). As I'm going through these pistol drills, I'm wondering what should be the order of priority with training other grips and stances. How would you prioritize the following:



Normal Grip - top priority
2-handed grip on weak side
1-hand grip - strong hand
1-hand grip - weak hand


I intend to try the 2-hand grip, weak side using the same Weaver stance. When training 1-hand, do I go ahead and keep the same Weaver stance...just drop the support hand...still using the left eye for all targeting since it is the dominant eye? I haven't developed a comfort level of trying to keep both eyes open - afraid I'll hit the guy's target in the lane next to me!!

Thanks for being a great resource, folks.

[bobbyfairbanks]

If your right handed and wrong eyed do your self a favor a fix that before trying to figure our anything else.

[BrianV]

How to fix besides keep both eyes open? I grew up shooting "right eyed" (rifle and shotgun), and I can still do the same with a handgun. The results are not much different; however, I am tighter to the target aiming with my left eye. And I never thought to try until the CCW class had everyone test for their dominant eye. Imagine my surprise when I came up right-hand/left-eye.

[asmo]

Do I need to be compensating for bullet trajectory, or are my mistakes simply being magnified at a greater distance...and trajectory hasn't entered the equation yet?

At that distance you do not need to take drop into account.

65583



My normal grip/stance is a right-handed, 2-hand Weaver stance (and cross-dominant, so sight using left eye).

I would put money on that being the reason for the low left hits.

As for stance/grip priorities, without knowing you or your level of ability its hard to judge, but in general I would say: 1) modified weaver, 2) 1-handed weak 3) 1-handed strong

[BrianV]

At that distance you do not need to take drop into account.

65583




I would put money on that being the reason for the low left hits.

As for stance/grip priorities, without knowing you or your level of ability its hard to judge, but in general I would say: 1) modified weaver, 2) 1-handed weak 3) 1-handed strong

Great graphic, thanks. And you recommend working weak hand before strong with one hand - interesting, that is why I asked.

I'm new to handgun, but I grew up shooting very well with rifle and "ok" with shotgun (mostly dove/quail). I can shoot fairly accurately at 10 yards and less, and can even keep that accuracy with double taps and rotating targets w/2seconds facing.

Now, I'm wanting to add different grips and greater - while still appropriate to handgun - distances. Just to become more well-rounded and proficient.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Irving]

Everything Asmo has said. I can't imagine a situation where you'd end up with a two handed, weak side grip on the gun. That doesn't mean that you couldn't practice that, but I'd say two-handed strong side, one-handed weak, and one-handed strong.

[BrianV]

Makes sense...if I have two available, healthy hands - I'd always be 2-handed strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cstone]

While marksmanship is common across the board, some things don't translate from long guns to hand guns. Start running by first crawling. Stand normal. Stand how you always stand when you aren't shooting. That is your natural stance. Empty handgun in holster, establish your grip. Don't draw until you have that grip ingrained into your brain. Solid grip, high on the backstrap with your dominant hand. When you begin to draw, work on deliberate smoothness. Smooth is fast and when you draw, you begin to rotate the handgun from the holster as soon as the barrel clears the holster. The support hand joins the handgun as the handgun moves up and to the center of your body. When your hands have met and you have established your two handed grip, you can come to the high ready or punch out to obtain your sight picture. I still close my left eye initially when I acquire my sights but quickly open both eyes as I remain on target. After you have mastered all of that, then you can start dry firing.

Have you taken any classes or found a trusted trainer to help you in correcting your technique? Finding a trainer or trusted training partner are worth every penny. Cameras have become pretty common as well for assisting you, but they take some time and they do not give immediate feedback like another set of eyes.

Don't get hung up on time. Speed comes with practice. Fast misses are worth less than slow hits.

It's a journey. No one completely masters it and I am afraid that as I get better at one thing I seem to slack off in something else. I was once told that a good ratio of dry firing to live firing is 1000 to 1. That seems about right to me and sure has saved me some money over the years.

Just my $.02

Be safe.

[BrianV]

While marksmanship is common across the board, some things don't translate from long guns to hand guns. Start running by first crawling. Stand normal. Stand how you always stand when you aren't shooting. That is your natural stance. Empty handgun in holster, establish your grip. Don't draw until you have that grip ingrained into your brain. Solid grip, high on the backstrap with your dominant hand. When you begin to draw, work on deliberate smoothness. Smooth is fast and when you draw, you begin to rotate the handgun from the holster as soon as the barrel clears the holster. The support hand joins the handgun as the handgun moves up and to the center of your body. When your hands have met and you have established your two handed grip, you can come to the high ready or punch out to obtain your sight picture. I still close my left eye initially when I acquire my sights but quickly open both eyes as I remain on target. After you have mastered all of that, then you can start dry firing.

Have you taken any classes or found a trusted trainer to help you in correcting your technique? Finding a trainer or trusted training partner are worth every penny. Cameras have become pretty common as well for assisting you, but they take some time and they do not give immediate feedback like another set of eyes.

Don't get hung up on time. Speed comes with practice. Fast misses are worth less than slow hits.

It's a journey. No one completely masters it and I am afraid that as I get better at one thing I seem to slack off in something else. I was once told that a good ratio of dry firing to live firing is 1000 to 1. That seems about right to me and sure has saved me some money over the years.

Just my $.02

Be safe.

You are definitely not the first to strongly suggest a high dry-fire ratio, and I haven't been doing it. I haven't wanted to do at home when I should be spending family time. I could do it at the range, though.

I still haven't picked a holster yet - either for the practice you describe or the next level up with conceal (I did get my CCW permit). I'm open for suggestions for a G19.

My initial handgun foray was with a friend who I hold in high regard - who is also a competitive shooter as well as member of this forum. I took my CCW class from CGC, and I've thought of taking the second class as time/money permit it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Irving]

Do the dry fire practice in the mirror so that you can work on how tough you look at the same time. ;)

[cstone]

Do the dry fire practice in the mirror so that you can work on how tough you look at the same time. ;)

Give it an Elvis sneer. That'll show them. [ROFL3]

Glock 19 is a pretty common, so just about any decent brand name holster will work with a good quality belt. Over time, you will spend lots of money on different holsters till you find what works for you. Then you will change your mind or your body will change and you will need to find another holster solution. I personally always carry in the same place. I carry concealed because I'm no longer in uniform. Concealed means less emphasis on retention but requires some additional manipulation to clear your cover garments.

[Gravy Sandwich]

1. No adjustment for trajectory is needed within 25 yards with a handgun. Trigger control issues are being amplified by the distance. Dry fire is the best remedy for this.

2. Weaver is a dated technique. Other than Gunsite, who gets a lot of heat for clinging to it as part of Jeff Cooper's dogma, few reputable defensive or competitive shooters use or teach it. I see a handful of competitive shooters using the Weaver stance at local matches, all finishing at the back of the pack. The advantages of isosceles over weaver are quantifiable. When Cooper developed the El Presidente Drill using Weaver, his benchmark time was 10 seconds. Nowadays, you can go to a local match and see office workers and computer geeks cranking out 6-8 second runs using isosceles.

Many trainers teach and use a more bladed stance for strong and weak hand shooting. Most will advocate keeping both eyes open for defensive and competitive pistol shooting. This allows you to maintain better peripheral vision and situational awareness, and allows faster transitions between targets.

I'd recommend a training session with RW Firearms Training or BluCore to get the fundamentals ironed out

[BrianV]

Worked out my grip/trigger pull issues and not concerned with trajectory now. Working off the draw some. Just started working with both eyes open, and I was surprised at how easily I've adjusted.

Both eyes are open, but I'm still positioned to acknowledge I'm left eye dominant.

I'm still more comfortable with Weaver stance vs Isosceles. Actually, it isn't a true Weaver because that left elbow isn't pointed down (arm isn't bent that much. My right foot is back half a step, and my right toes are probably pointed 45 degrees from target.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk