I had a ND today

[Robb]

I guess it's a N.D.
I had put the rifles away and transitioned to a 1911. Pulled the hand gun out of the case, loaded up a mag, inserted it, did a slingshot rack to charge the gun. Had my booger hook off the trigger and after the slingshot to charge it, she went off. Chambered the round and fired it in one smooth motion. That'll wake you up.

That's never happened before. Thankfully other than my son, no one else was around to witness that. Put a hole in the dirt a few feet in front of my foot.
Fired 200 rounds without further incident but I sure was aware of where the muzzle was pointing when doing a slingshot or dropping the slide stop.
Got the gun home and did a did a detail strip of the slide, firing pin etc. Nothing jumped out at me and it only happened once but it was the very first round. That kind of took the fun out of the range session.

I was shooting some cheap aluminum cased ammo. Doubt that was the cause. What do you guys think, sticky firing pin maybe?

[fitz19d]

My facetious answer would be cause it's a 1911, for serious I dunno.

[SideShow Bob]

Did you actually eyeball the ammo as you loaded the magazine to spot bad cases, set backed bullets, and most important, protruding primers ?
Or, when was the last time you cleaned the pistol ? And if cleaned, did you push the firing pin in too far when reinstalling the firing pin stop and lodge it in the hole in the breach face ?

You didn't recently have any trigger work done to lighten the pull did you?

I bet the next time you pull the slide back to chamber a round you will have the muzzle pointed down range in a safe direction.

Since you are in Thornton, get ahold of Bert with BP Tactical to give your pistol the once over to see if there is any mechanical problems.

[Wulf202]

Check your firing pin channel and spring

[SouthPaw]

Hammer follow. Happened to me before as well.

[Irving]

Glad everyone was safe. Hope it doesn't happen again.

[Robb]

I pulled the firing pin, cleaned it up, ran a patch through the channel and pushed it back out, firing pin has a new spring. Did the same with the extractor channel.
Never considered hammer follow. Thanks for mentioning that. What causes that? Half cock notch breaking? Too light of trigger? I guess I have homework to do.

[SouthPaw]

I couldn't tell you exactly what causes hammer follow but I'm sure Bert will chime in and explain it. You can check it racking the slide back and dropping it full force to see if the hammer follows the slide home (of course with a clear and empty gun). After I did that and saw that was my problem, I called Springfield and they immediately sent a return label to me to send it in. They fixed it but wouldn't tell me what was wrong.

[ray1970]

I'll second a vote for hammer follow.

You might be able to verify it with an empty pistol. Make sure it's unloaded and lock the slide back with no magazine. Push the slide stop down and let the slide slam forward. You might have to do it a few times. If you do it and the hammer goes down when the slide slams shut then you have issues.

Oh, and this isn't really good on the gun. A few times probably won't hurt but I wouldn't do it too much.

[SouthPaw]

Ray is correct. I'm typing from my phone and was not really wanting to put in the effort in long terms. It is unfortunately hard on the gun to do this test but it will give you your answer. My springer would do it about every 4th-5th time.

[SideShow Bob]

But for the fact that the OP fired another 200 rounds with out this happening again, hammer follow is unlikely. Hammer follow would have happened again a least a few if not numerous times.

[Irving]

Is it less hard on the gun to do the hammer follow test with snap-caps?

[SideShow Bob]

Is it less hard on the gun to do the hammer follow test with snap-caps?

With snap caps you don't get the full force slam / jar to cause the slip on the full cock notch.

[GilpinGuy]

Scary as shit. My bud had a shotgun go off when he pumped it between clay birds. No finger on the trigger. After all the "wtf"s and "holy shit"s he did it over and over again.

Edit: What i mean is that every time he pumped the shotgun, it went off. We were testing it before continuing with the clay birds.

This happened 10 years ago or so. It was a HUGE lesson for me.

[Irving]

With snap caps you don't get the full force slam / jar to cause the slip on the full cock notch.

Then how did it happen with live ammo in the chamber? Are you saying it can still happen with ammo (obviously) but it's more likely to happen (and then be discovered) when empty?

[SideShow Bob]

I've had a stuck firing pin go full auto (luckily with only three rounds left in the magazine) due to a filthy pistol. And a slam fire from a protruding primer.
A hammer follow would be a mechanical problem that would have repeated itself while continuing shooting.
The empty chamber test is what should be done sparingly, usually after trigger work is done or for a suspected problem.

And yes, it is more likely to be found when the slide is dropped on an empty chamber.

[Wulf202]

I cannot understand why racking the slide would be considered hard on the gun?

[SideShow Bob]

I cannot understand why racking the slide would be considered hard on the gun?

It's not racking the slide , it is letting it slam home on an empty chamber that is not good for it. Without stripping a round & chambering to slow the momentum, the slide slams home under full force of the recoil spring. This will cause wear, peening and eventually breakage of the associated parts of the slide, barrel, barrel lugs, link and slide stop shaft.

And with the title of "Grand Master Know it all" you shouldn't need to ask this ! [Coffee]

[Robb]

Dropping the slide on an empty chamber messes up your high dollar trigger job on a 1911, or so I've read.
Something about battering the sear, or sear bounce, or some such. It may not be hard on a stock gun, but after you just paid for a trigger job you don't want to be dropping the slide on an empty chamber over and over.

I saw all this too late last night, I'll test it out tonight and report back.

[Wulf202]

65753

[KS63]

What manufacturer of 1911? Try higher quality ammo. High primers do happen. Factory pistol? First owner?

[Robb]

Colt Govt Model
I'm cheap. Hate to dump expensive ammo into a dirt bank.
High Primers Happen - (there's a bumper sticker)
Tastefully modded
Yup, bought her brand spankin' new in about 1984, (so she's ancient now).

[KevDen2005]

I was having something similar on my (I hate to say it) 1911 a few years ago. Luckily I was already shooting on open range land so it wasn't as unexpected. Bert did me right and squared my baby away.

[HoneyBadger]

I cannot understand why racking the slide would be considered hard on the gun?
You must be a Glock owner... [Abused]

[KevDen2005]

You must be a Glock owner... [Abused]
.

me too actually. Bert is the one that educated me all about racking slides and the damage it causes

[Doc45]

Years ago I bought a used Colt Gold Cup, had a really sweet trigger when I dry fired it at the shop. Hit the range, loaded up a mag and it went full auto, dumped the mag and scared the hell out of me. Took to a trusted smith and "someone" (perhaps the prior owner) had kitchen-tabled the sear. It does happen.

After that whenever I have a gun bought used I expect it to go full tilt boogie and am pleasantly surprised when it doesn't lol.

[KS63]

Years ago I bought a used Colt Gold Cup, had a really sweet trigger when I dry fired it at the shop. Hit the range, loaded up a mag and it went full auto, dumped the mag and scared the hell out of me. Took to a trusted smith and "someone" (perhaps the prior owner) had kitchen-tabled the sear. It does happen.

After that whenever I have a gun bought used I expect it to go full tilt boogie and am pleasantly surprised when it doesn't lol.

With every new pistol and new reload recipe, I only put two rounds in the magazine to test for function. Full auto or slam fire/hammer bounce, less chance of someone getting hurt.

[Brian]

Thanks for posting. I appreciate the reminder every time someone posts about an ND, if only for the reminder that it can happen to anyone at any point.

[Irving]

I went to a claim today where the neighbor fired a .45 ACP and it left his house, went into the house next door, through the bedroom, and ended up in the vanity, under the sink in the bathroom.

[BPTactical]

Glad you and those around you are ok.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.
Hammer follow is typically the result of:
Hammer hook/sear nose wear(most likely)
Disconnector too short.
Sear spring too light/damaged
Dirty/sludged up internals.

A broken/sludged up firing pin can cause same.

Come see me.

And yes, nothing will destroy a nice 1911 trigger than letting a slide slam closed on an empty chamber.
Due to the relationship of the hammer/sear the slide slamming causes the sear to slam into the hammer hooks and batter the nice crisp angles of the sear nose.
It's two hardened steel surfaces slamming together and the nose of the sear is pretty narrow.
Somethings gotta give.
A loaded cartridge provides a "cushion" that last 1/10th of an inch before the slide goes into full battery.

[HoneyBadger]

.

me too actually. Bert is the one that educated me all about racking slides and the damage it causes
Yeah, honestly I didn't know this was an issue with 1911s. I've never owned one and it's a good thing too, because I most certainly would have ruined it by now.

[Robb]

It appears ir could be a hammer follow issue. Hammer followed 1 of 3 times. Hammer caught on the half cock notch tho.
Guess I need to give you some more business Bert.

[Wulf202]

65753
My caption didn't make it... 45acp after a 1911 slam fire. Weak firing pin spring caused it. Shooter had chunks of brass in the face and safety glasses. Cut and burned hands. Mag floor plate parts penetrated the skin on the belly.

[osok-308]

Hammer follow sounds like the consensus. Never had this issue in any of my 1911's, so I can't say definitively.

I've had an ND as well. About seven years ago. I thought I had downloaded my firearm at the range, pointed it back down range and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer. Talk about something that seriously will wake you up.