For those with little ones.

[GilpinGuy]

Remember that they think some little things are important when you don't. Drop the phone/tablet and REALLY spend some time with kiddos. Yeah, feeling a bit sentimental today...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXE-um_p8I8

[clodhopper]

From what I have seen, it isn't the parents on the electronics, it is the kids. Especially the real little ones the parents keep encouraging to play on the ipad so the parents don't have to deal with them.

[Doc45]

Everything in moderation. The electronics have their place but nothing substitutes for our interaction. I'd give up the rest of my life if I could have one day with my boys when they were little. I do get a bit of that feeling with my 2.5 yr old grandson-very thankful they live close.

My son and his family went to Disney World two weeks ago. On the flight down the games they were able to download to their tablet really helped the little guy get through the flight without any fuss. On the flight home he was pretty worn out from 5 days there lol.

[Grant H.]

From what I have seen, it isn't the parents on the electronics, it is the kids. Especially the real little ones the parents keep encouraging to play on the ipad so the parents don't have to deal with them.

This.

Teaching the kids how to use electronics is important in this day in age, but the focus I see some parents putting on "entertaining" the kids so they don't have to take care of their children is disturbing. There are so few kids that I know of that actually go outside to play now.

[Blowby]

From what I have seen, it isn't the parents on the electronics, it is the kids. Especially the real little ones the parents keep encouraging to play on the ipad so the parents don't have to deal with them.
I think the millennial parents are a little upset when they can not stay focused within their electronic world.

http://anodtothegods.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/tumblr_o4ojnyZ6rI1u62ddwo1_500.jpg

[rondog]

Gotta watch 'em like a hawk. My wife came home recently from an AA meeting, a young lady she knows was there, an absolute wreck. She had two little boys, and lost her 3-year-old Sunday. I guess they were camping or something, near water. Took her eyes off him for a second, next thing she knew a fisherman was bringing him out of the river. Got him to a hospital, but he didn't make it.

[Rooskibar03]

As a father of a little girl who spends to much personal time working on my phone that one hits a little close to home.

[clodhopper]

There are so few kids that I know of that actually go outside to play now.

Was talking with coworkers about this just the other day. Back when I was a teen, during the summer you saw young guys fixing cars, bikes, gocarts, whatever, all down the street. The roots of young people seeking careers in engineering. Anymore, you nearly never see them outside. One of they guys did point out that back then the cars needed regular adjustment to run, so yeah that was part of it, but overall, young people just don't do anything other than hide inside anymore. I have seen it with the young people coming out of college who have nothing but book skills, don't know one end of a wrench from another or how to work in the sun all day with becoming a crispy critter. Simple stuff. Disappointing.

[funkymonkey1111]

i don't have kids so my info is entirely anecdotal:

1. one friend of mine has two kids, 15 and 16--always on the phone--one is on psychotropic meds for anxiety, PTSD, and major depressive disorder. Both on phones all the time. friend advises "at least 30%" of kids her friends are with have gender identity, alternative lifestyle (homosexual) or mental illness;

2. my sister is a professor at the university of Maine, and also works as a freshman advisor. said between 30-40% incoming freshmen are coming with psychiatric notes, conditions, needs for accommodation, etc. for depression, anxiety, etc.

3. another friend (and seemingly rightfully so) ascribes his kids' constant stress being related to phones/screen time. constant updates, stress for instant need for validation, feedback, etc. Essentially, there's no downtime. studies have shown low battery on a phone without a charging source is a huge stressor to people

It seems, to me, that kids today (and adults) can't unplug. can't get any mental downtime. like clodhopper said, used to be kids would be outside playing. i'm 45--not trying to sound like a codger saying "in my day...."---but in my teen summer years you got on a bike, skateboard, whatever. when you were younger you were outside until the street lights came on.

the phones seem to have cranked the gossip level up to 11--and everyone is commenting, or worrying about the commenting, wherever it is.

[rondog]

And people wonder why the ranks of hipsters/metrosexuals/GLBT/SJW/liberal Hillary & Bernie worshipers/etc are growing by leaps and bounds.

[Grant H.]

i don't have kids so my info is entirely anecdotal:

1. one friend of mine has two kids, 15 and 16--always on the phone--one is on psychotropic meds for anxiety, PTSD, and major depressive disorder. Both on phones all the time. friend advises "at least 30%" of kids her friends are with have gender identity, alternative lifestyle (homosexual) or mental illness;

2. my sister is a professor at the university of Maine, and also works as a freshman advisor. said between 30-40% incoming freshmen are coming with psychiatric notes, conditions, needs for accommodation, etc. for depression, anxiety, etc.

3. another friend (and seemingly rightfully so) ascribes his kids' constant stress being related to phones/screen time. constant updates, stress for instant need for validation, feedback, etc. Essentially, there's no downtime. studies have shown low battery on a phone without a charging source is a huge stressor to people

It seems, to me, that kids today (and adults) can't unplug. can't get any mental downtime. like clodhopper said, used to be kids would be outside playing. i'm 45--not trying to sound like a codger saying "in my day...."---but in my teen summer years you got on a bike, skateboard, whatever. when you were younger you were outside until the street lights came on.

the phones seem to have cranked the gossip level up to 11--and everyone is commenting, or worrying about the commenting, wherever it is.

Our society is so fawked...

I'm only 31 and I look at the majority of clowns coming out of school now, and it's depressing.

I thank God for my parents and the way they raised me, ass-whoopin's included, because it has taken me a long way. An awful lot of the clowns coming out of school, college or highschool, today won't have the same opportunities that I did.

[Teufelhund]

My 17 year old can not get his head out of his phone for even a minute. We had to place strict limitations on it after seeing the effects it was having on his schoolwork and ability to pay attention in general:
-No data plan. Wifi only for data
-No taking it to school
-Not allowed upstairs (he'd stay up all night playing on it)
-Not allowed at the dinner table so he's forced to talk to us

He borrowed my bicycle a couple weeks ago. Hours after he had been home that night, he realized he had no idea where he left the bicycle. Too concerned with whatever is going on in his phone to even remember he had a bike with him.

It's only going to get worse with subsequent generations, and I don't want my 2yo to learn those habits from us. The wife and I have started leaving our phones plugged in by the door when we get home, and have placed books we have been wanting to read at various places around the house. Now instead of seeing us with a phone in our hands when we have downtime, he sees us reading. He'll probably still have to get the same restrictions his big brother has when he gets older though.

[hurley842002]

The wife and I have started leaving our phones plugged in by the door when we get home, and have placed books we have been wanting to read at various places around the house. Now instead of seeing us with a phone in our hands when we have downtime, he sees us reading. He'll probably still have to get the same restrictions his big brother has when he gets older though.

Let me preface by stating, the wife and I have also dealt with phone issues, not with kids but with ourselves. We had to come to terms with the fact that we were on our phones way too much. Now that the boys are older (oldest is 3), the interaction is much greater, and the phone issue is pretty much non existent.

That being said, what is the difference between having your face in a book, or having your face in a phone, provided you are retaining the same info (besides appearance)? I like to research different topics, and learn new things, the majority of that research comes from my phone. I would go as far to say, having your face in your phone, enriching your mind with new, factual information is far better than the most recent Tom Clancy or romance novels. Just my opinion.

[Teufelhund]

what is the difference between having your face in a book, or having your face in a phone, provided you are retaining the same info (besides appearance)?

You hit the nail on the head; my motivation for this rule is really about appearances. If you have a phone in your hand, someone else can't tell if you're reading the news or watching cat videos. If you're holding a book however, it's obvious to anyone what you're doing. I think it's a better example for my 2yo to follow.
eta: Also, it forces us to talk to each other more and find something interactive to do as a family.

I keep thinking back to that CCTV footage that surfaced a couple years ago of a subway train (or maybe it was a bus), where everyone has their face in a phone. Some guy looks around, pulls a pistol out and starts aiming at people - no one notices and he puts the gun away. Then he takes it back out and starts shooting people in the face. It scares me to death to know my 17yo is out there paying attention to his phone at all times, and nothing else.

[Teufelhund]

I cant relate to any of your situations.

We have no video games. No smart phones. My wife and I have prepaid cell phones that only get used in an emergency. (my phone bill is less than $2.50 a month ) no paid television shows (cable), no free television shows, well sometimes pbs comes in. We have movies on disc and we have occasionally watched movies on free amazon prime. (they usually all suck) Im actually afraid my kids wouldnt be able to figure out how to dial 911 if they had to. I have shown them, but they never use a phone. If a family member calls them, my kids just sit there....dead air... they dont talk.

Our kids only use the computer during school. After they do their written portion. We almost never let them watch tv during the day. If we watch tv, we watch a movie together at night. It will probably be a black and white movie made before 1950 though. We only allow them to watch clean shows and clean cartoons. Seems most shows now are ultra violent and skanky. Our kids dont care about technology like ipads, phones, internet. They have microscopes, telescopes, globes, guns and bows (used under direct adult supervision), animals etc to keep them entertained.

An evening at HBAR's house:

http://vid.adlala.com/directv/the-settlers-are-providers-commercial/poster.jpg

[Teufelhund]

Holy cow, man. Got a whole herd, huh? Good on you, sir. I'm always a little worried our (liberty-minded folks) numbers are thinning because we're being out-bred.

[Dave_L]

I saw a kid riding his bike down a hill last night with his phone in hand, playing on it. It's sad what has happened...

[Grant H.]

Our kids only use the computer during school. After they do their written portion. We almost never let them watch tv during the day. If we watch tv, we watch a movie together at night. It will probably be a black and white movie made before 1950 though. We only allow them to watch clean shows and clean cartoons. Seems most shows now are ultra violent and skanky. Our kids dont care about technology like ipads, phones, internet. They have microscopes, telescopes, globes, guns and bows (used under direct adult supervision), animals etc to keep them entertained.

Your kids will be the effective and useful members of society due to this.

[Erni]

I'm with hurley. I read on my phone to learn and research whatever topic intrests me at the time. My utube usage is minimal and I usually don't watch entertainment.
But it really comes down to put away the distractions and talk to eachother.

[GilpinGuy]

I guess my point of this post was: put down the phone/tablet if your doing stupid shit like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. which is what a huge % of people use them for. Not researching nuclear physics or quantum theory. If you are looking into quantum theory every waking moment and you are on your couch while your 5 yo kid is asking to play with you, you should reevaluate your priorities.

Overthinking...jeez.

[hurley842002]

I guess my point of this post was: put down the phone/tablet if your doing stupid shit like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. which is what a huge % of people use them for. Not researching nuclear physics or quantum theory. If you are looking into quantum theory every waking moment and you are on your couch while your 5 yo kid is asking to play with you, you should reevaluate your priorities.

Overthinking...jeez.

Jeez, lighten up Francis.

[GilpinGuy]

I cant relate to any of your situations.

We have no video games. No smart phones. My wife and I have prepaid cell phones that only get used in an emergency. (my phone bill is less than $2.50 a month ) no paid television shows (cable), no free television shows, well sometimes pbs comes in. We have movies on disc and we have occasionally watched movies on free amazon prime. (they usually all suck) Im actually afraid my kids wouldnt be able to figure out how to dial 911 if they had to. I have shown them, but they never use a phone. If a family member calls them, my kids just sit there....dead air... they dont talk.

Our kids only use the computer during school. After they do their written portion. We almost never let them watch tv during the day. If we watch tv, we watch a movie together at night. It will probably be a black and white movie made before 1950 though. We only allow them to watch clean shows and clean cartoons. Seems most shows now are ultra violent and skanky. Our kids dont care about technology like ipads, phones, internet. They have microscopes, telescopes, globes, guns and bows (used under direct adult supervision), animals etc to keep them entertained.

You say you "can't relate to any of your situations". Not to be abrasive or condescending, but you are putting your kids at a disadvantage in today's reality if you are doing all of the thing you say. Again, I'm not condemning you - do what you feel is right for your kids.

If your kids don't care about things like the internet...it's like saying '70's kids like me don't care about fuel injection, power brakes, or air bags. Man, the world is changing (has changed to a large part) in a data oriented direction whether you like it or not. Kids need to be familiar with technology, just not be a slave to it.

My 11yo boy is a shooter, camper, fisherman, plays baseball, etc. He also has a YouTube channel of his own that he manages (I supervise). This is good stuff. He shows ME how to do some stuff on my channel. I do have to pry him away from the monitor sometimes and say "Hey, let's do some catching practice". He usually say's "Awesome!"

Bottom line is, kids these days need to be skilled in the electronic world for sure, but it is up to us parents to ensure that they are skilled in the real world as well.

And this has nothing to do with the OP.

[GilpinGuy]

Jeez, lighten up Francis.

Nah.

[brutal]

An evening at HBAR's house:



Then making straw hats afterwards?

lolz, j/k hbar.

[clodhopper]

we're being out-bred.

I would rather be out-bred than in-bred.

[Great-Kazoo]

I guess gilpin missed the part about them using computers during school. They know how to use computers just fine. They use the internet for research, they use the internet to do their web based school. Im saying my kids arent using the computer all day everyday. My kids know plenty about computers. Way more than I do and they are young. No, I dont think little kids need a constant internet connection in their pocket. I 100% believe parents make their kids ADD/ADHD because they themselves either dont like their kids or are too lazy to parent them. "Hey the digitial babysitter will raise them, and when I send them to public re-education they can learn to be liberals too."

I think anyone who allows small children unsupervised access to the internet is a fool. Im sorry if that pisses a bunch of you off. The internet can be a great place to learn and have fun. BUT.. there are things on here that cant be unseen or unlearned. Things that can damage you and especially your children.



After reading , then re-reading this thread. AND Knowing HBar for way too long (or is that the other way around?) I'll say this. The one thing lacking is the word NO!.

Something neither one of us hesitated to use.

No you cannot watch TV

NO you cannot sit inside

NO you cannot surf the web

NO!

Our daughter is 33. She was raised with a few guidelines

One of them being there were repercussions for getting a bad grade (That never happened) Failure to complete a school project on time, if not before it was due.

Failure for not doing assigned task. OOPS forgot to do the yard / tootsie roll patrol and your mother had to clean up. No TV, No Phone etc. Some form of being grounded. Take a 11 yr olds (then land line) way. That got their attention

WE DON'T CARE... how your friends get away with this and that.. How their Mother or father let X friend stay up, out, doing what ever.
You want to have the same "freedom" some of your friends do, Great. Pack a bag we'll drop you off at their house. Their home life consisting of a single parent, who for what ever reason paid minimal attention to their child.

Her elementary and middle school teachers always asked us, Are you Her natural parents.. Of course we are what a stupid question. Well Mr. Kazoo we've found approximately 50% of our students are in single parent or divorced, now remarried homes. And that makes a difference how we ask?

When we were told our daughter had a tendency to wander / daydream in class. That we might consider putting her on some form of ADD drug. That went over well.
There is no way our daughter will be put on any medication Ever, unless she gets sick..

You do realize all elementary aged kids minds wander. It's called being a Child!
But sir.... Most kids today need something to keep their minds focused.. The Fuck they do.. What they need are parents who are involved . Not some union hack who looks for an easy way out.

Which was sad as some parents (single or not) EVER attended any school function, even the meet the teachers night. That attitude / lack of interest we noticed more & more in H.S.
InH.S there where teachers who wanted to hug us for actually showing up for parent / teachers night. It was one of the few places we never had a difficult time finding an up close parking spot

H.S the teachers knew very well we took a serious interest in our daughters education AND... gave her carte blanch IF she were to be harassed, or physically assaulted by any student OR teacher. That issue only happened 1x. and was resolved by next days school time. The other kids parents, ZERO interest in knowing what transpired, Zero interest with anything their kid was doing.


I worked nights and had minimal time for her after school activities, sometimes. WE tried as much as possible to stay involved while she lived at home. Was it tough, hell yeah.. Did it always work, of course not.


(I've mentioned this before and is worth repeating)
2 years in to her .mil service. We received a touching letter from her.

Thanking us for actually taking the time to be involved with her education, making sure she accepted responsibility and there were repercussions for failure to do so. She wrote it after seeing how many of her fellow .mil co-workers ALWAYS had an excuse for everything, failing to report for duty prepared. Looking for someone else to carry their weight etc.


One can hover over their kids from birth to the day they leave the nest. Nothing will or can guarantee they fly the straight & narrow. Some fall off the cliff, becoming serial killers, drug addicts, burdens on society. Others don't.. we can only hope (and pray) they choose the right path
No matter how much or little you pay attention / get involved with them

[hollohas]

I couldn't agree with the OP more. Too many parents ignore their kids while they have their face planted in a phone. I found myself doing this and it was affecting my kids. Now, I put my phone away when I get home from work and try not to touch it again until my kids go to bed. They are far more important than anything I think I need to do on my phone.

[brutal]

we tried, but the Guatamalans kept beating us on price. Damn. Maybe we should be making furniture?

Aren't you already half Amish?

[Great-Kazoo]

Aren't you already half Amish?

Oh he's an Ish alright

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

First it was tv, then rock and roll, then video games now cell phones. Errrrmahgerd.

[Irving]

Wait til I tell you guys how great of a parent I am.

[brutal]

Wait til I tell you guys how great of a parent I am.

Wait until I tell you guys how great of a grandparent I am.

That right there, ought to be proof positive.

FWIW, Every child is different. Every child needs limits. Every child needs to be rewarded for the good they do and punished - appropriately - for the bad. Every child requires a customized program tailored to your specific lives.

I never had as much time for my kids as I would have liked, but providing is hard work. Budget as much time to enrich their lives as you can, and strive to do the best you can. They get their strengths and weaknesses from you and everyone else in their lives. Try to be the strong one. Try to be the loving one. Try to be the fair one.

It's for the chillen afterall.

[Irving]

Don't even ask about how TheGinsue is as a parent. A few years ago he gave his son a book, and he ATE the pages!

[GilpinGuy]

HBAR. Again, I wasn't being condescending if it came off that way.

Here's my view. I'm a backyard mechanic. Litterally. No garage even. I fix shit in the mud and snow at 9000 feet in the winter. It sucks.

I haven't needed the shitty Haynes manuals in a decade. Search Google or YouTube for "How to replace a front deivers side wheel bearing in a 2011 Nissan Rogue" and you get a step by step instructional video and/or a detailed write up on how to do it. Fricking cool.

And I learned how to maintain, disassemble, clean and assemble my first AR completely from YouTube. The net can be a wonderfull thing outside of school.

And speaking of school...working on getting my 2 young ones out of government schools. It's a tough one though.

And Kazoo...yeah. The lack of NO is why many kids are mindless skulls of mush. And it's challenging. I have an 11 yo and a 3 yo. Two others are grown and outta da house. And doing just fine, btw.

Anyway, I'm chilling in Glenwood with the wife for our anniversary and just checked in because of Orlando.

I guess I ruffled a few feathers. Whoops.

[GilpinGuy]

Bravo! I guess it was the "my kids don't care about technology" comment that got me thinking.

[GilpinGuy]

Man, homeschooling is what I've been looking into a lot the last year or so. It isn't easy to just dive into.

[Great-Kazoo]

First it was tv, then rock and roll, then video games now cell phones. Errrrmahgerd.

NO it's the parent[s] who give their kids said items before they're out of elementary school. Little Billy has no need for a cell phone, what so ever.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

NO it's the parent[s] who give their kids said items before they're out of elementary school. Little Billy has no need for a cell phone, what so ever.

Nah. My two year old will text me from her crib if she poops in her pull up. I've trained her that's a lot easier and better than actually crying or using words. Her spelling kinda sucks but she uses commas in the right spots.

[hurley842002]

Her spelling kinda sucks but she uses commas in the right spots.

She's already doing better than many of the folks on here....