Florida Night club shooting

[ColoradoTJ]

Last two nights in Orlando have been deadly.

6/11: Christina Grimmie was killed after her small concert venue when signing autographs.

https://youtu.be/E3JefzlFCN4

She did this song 6/11/15.....

6/12: Night club shooting. From what I have been hearing tonight is the police are treating this as a terrorist attack. 42 injured, 20 have died.

The brave men/women in blue saved 30 people in an hostage situation when they went in. Awesome work with maximum risk on their part.

[GilpinGuy]

Here we go again. Mother fuckers.

[roberth]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-orlando-shooting-pulse-nightclub-story.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html

[battle_sight_zero]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-what-we-know/85786006/ Reports shooter may have Islamic ties.... not a man wearing a Trump teeshirt as earlier reports spewed.

[roberth]

The Goebbels imitators are already hard at work twisting the truth into lies on this story.

[Firehaus]

You know it's not a white guy, it would of been headline news first thing. If they have the shooter and are not releasing the identity first thing, then they need time make up the narrative first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ColoradoTJ]

Lastest I have seen is Islamic Terrorism, and this was a Gay Bar.

All night I have heard some sort of "like the shootings in Colorado"......

[GilpinGuy]

I keep thinking "this will boost Trump" and the ratings for the Assclown Circus (election coverage) will soar.

[bobbyfairbanks]

Hey guys lets celebrate diversity and how great Muslims are and how much wonderful things they offer our country. We should embrace and adopt Muslims as our brothers and sisters.[fail][fail][fail]

[funkymonkey1111]

They still can't tell you how many people are dead, but they are sure quick to tell you this is a lone wolf scenario. Happy Ramadan, infidels

[bryjcom]

When progressive worlds collide....

Condolences to to the the victims and families

[henpecked]

'Twas the night before Ramadan
When all through the mosque
Not a gun was unloaded
Not even the glocks
The Imam in the front
Was leading the prayer
ISIS in attendance
Wished Allah was there
Up rose the martyrs
Dressed all in black
One last gear check knowing,
They wouldn't be back
Pipe bombs and pressure cookers
Laced with some nails
Allah was willing
That they couldn't fail
Off to the the gay bar
They shouted with glee
To die for Islam on a
Killing spree.

[jerrymrc]

News says the mans name was "Omar" and that he is a US citizen but family members were not. Nothing to see here, move along........

[kidicarus13]

"Mina said the gunman was armed with an assault rifle, a handgun and some sort of unidentified device."- USA Today

Here we go

[Bitter Clinger]

50 dead, according to the Sheriff. Already calling it terrorism, not surprised at all. Prayers to the familys.

[Dave_L]

Yup, identified and is of Afghani descent. The irony of this whole thing is out of control. How's that tolerance going? Make no mistake, they do not share the opinion of mercy.

Condolences to the families.

[Double00]

As we all know the jihadists are here and want us dead. Stay safe!

[ColoradoTJ]

Death toll up to 50 now. Damn....

[PSS]

This is terrible and unacceptable. Regardless how people feel about homosexuality this is an attack on all of us. It's time for liberal progressives to wake up and realize a common enemy among us. Islam is the biggest threat to humanity today. When there was religious persecution from Catholic and Protestant persuasions it could of been said that Christianity was the biggest threat to humanity. It doesn't matter if there were peace loving Christians at that time just as it doesn't matter there may be peace loving Islamists among the bomb throwers today. The leaders of the problem sects of Christianity had the tacit support of their followers until the laypersons had enough and rebelled against the tyranny. Same process is needed in the Islamic world. Until that reformation is complete Islam has no place in a modern society.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I hate to think it will happen, but Im waiting for some POS like pat robertson to say "they deserved it for their sinful lifestyle". now is the time for religious nutbags to shut the hell up. people were killed, people who didnt deserve to be killed. (well except the guy who did the killing)

You can be sure that the Westboro jackwagons will, thankfully they aren't viewed by anyone as being representatives of conservatives/religious/white folk/etc.

Sad all around.

[Gman]

You can be sure that the Westboro jackwagons will, thankfully they aren't viewed by anyone as being representatives of conservatives/religious/white folk/etc.
As despicable as Westboro is...they're not murdering people in the name of their religion.

Sad. Unfortunately the left and their puppets in the MSM will blame the tool and not the perpetrator.

[TEAMRICO]

This hit Obummers base directly.
Lets see how he twists this.

[Great-Kazoo]

As despicable as Westboro is...they're not murdering people in the name of their religion.

Sad. Unfortunately the left and their puppets in the MSM will blame the tool and not the perpetrator.

Act of Terrorism FBI & Orlando PD saying.
Left leaning (ok almost all) media saying unknown shooter. BBC says Islamic / ISIS terrorist attack.
The AP still holding out for a white, trump hat wearing, NRA, no background check gun purchased at gun show or online shooter.
DP comments still has the true believers hoping the same even though the media is starti ng to roll over to the "truth"

Still expecting Obama and his puppet (or is that the other way round) to call for another Ban on Assault Weapons. Anyone want to guess which leads tomorrows, if not this evenings news ?

[Skip]

The Goebbels imitators are already hard at work twisting the truth into lies on this story.

I was reviewing the Twitter history on a couple of hashtags and it was all anti-gun narrative before any facts were known. A lot of it coming from Europe which is ironic because the same style of attack happened in Paris which as we all know has fairly strict gun control.

Now that narrative is getting completely destroyed.

Will they try to use this to further gun control? I'm sure they will. But I don't think most folks are buying it. Think about that message...

Islamic terrorism is something we have to deal with so let's ban guns to make terrorists less capable.

It doesn't address the problem! And it ignores the recent history of terrorism and everything we've learned.


ETA: Suddenly, refusing to bake a cake doesn't look like persecution.

[Great-Kazoo]

I was reviewing the Twitter history on a couple of hashtags and it was all anti-gun narrative before any facts were known. A lot of it coming from Europe which is ironic because the same style of attack happened in Paris which as we all know has fairly strict gun control.

Now that narrative is getting completely destroyed.

Will they try to use this to further gun control? I'm sure they will. But I don't think most folks are buying it. Think about that message...

Islamic terrorism is something we have to deal with so let's ban guns to make terrorists less capable.

It doesn't address the problem! And it ignores the recent history of terrorism and everything we've learned.

Were you expecting anything less.. EVERYONE KNOWS Less Guns means Less shooting. [ROFL2]

[Gman]

Florida Pulse Gay Bar Mass Shooting was in a Gun Free Zone (http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/florida-pulse-gay-bar-mass-shooting-was-in-a-gun-free-zone/#axzz4BNboHdj5)


Florida has the most concealed carry permits issued of any state in the nation, but it did the occupants of the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando no good because it is a gun free zone by state law.

[HoneyBadger]

There are many reasons to disagree with and disapprove of a gay lifestyle.
There are many reasons to disagree with and disapprove of a muslim lifestyle.
There are many reasons to disagree with and disapprove of nearly any lifestyle (whether or not those reasons are justified or not is another topic of discussion).


There are no reasons to initiate violence against other people for their nonviolent lifestyle. What a damn shame. May the victims and their loved ones find peace.

[Skip]

Were you expecting anything less.. EVERYONE KNOWS Less Guns means Less shooting. [ROFL2]

It actually does mean less shooting, just less shooting at paper and more at human beings.

Libs are getting angry... Losing narratives and trying to spin. It's not working.

[DAL357]

They don't belong here. Period. Not one damn one of them. I don't care if you know a good one, their motivating philosophy is incompatible with what's left of Western mores and values. Deport them.

Harsh? Oh, hell yes! Will it ever happen? Oh, hell no! But a man can have his musings, can't he? Well, until that's made illegal too.

I tend to think of today's woes as a cautionary tale for future generations on the dangers of mixing people with hostile, antithetical ideas and ways, not that many people learn from history.

[ray1970]

I've never been a supporter of the whole "diversity" thing.

People with common beliefs and ideas can coexist peacefully for a long time. When you start putting people who have differences together eventually things are going to come to a head.

[wctriumph]

The followers of islam are a cancer in the body of mankind. This cancer needs to be isolated and then eradicated before it can metastasize into all parts of the body which it is aggressively trying to do. It can be contained and eliminated with the application of a more aggressive therapy at the most dense part of the tumor.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Registered Democrat in Florida. You can bet ABCNNBCBS would spin this to all hell if he was white or a Republican. As it is, they'll try to spin it as a "hate crime". Guy was born in NY long before the Bush administration or even before Operation Desert Shield so this isn't something "the wall" or increased background checks at immigration would fix but it's somewhat ironic it's falling on those who were more interested in changing America than protecting her.

[Gman]

Shooter's father is trying to spin this into not being anything to do with religion.
Father: Orlando shooter was enraged by same-sex kiss (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/father-orlando-shooter-was-enraged-by-same-sex-kiss/ar-AAgWBCB?li=BBnbcA1)


Mateen, who was carrying a handgun and AR-15-type rifle, died after a SWAT team stormed the club, police said. The shooter, who had a security job, according to family, had active security officer and firearms licenses, records show.

Because of his name and heritage, there were immediate questions about Mateen's possible ties to Islamic fundamentalism — but his father said it may have been a recent incident involving two men showing each other affection that set the gunman off.

"We were in Downtown Miami, Bayside, people were playing music. And he saw two men kissing each other in front of his wife and kid and he got very angry," Mir Seddique, told NBC News on Sunday. "They were kissing each other and touching each other and he said, 'Look at that. In front of my son they are doing that.' And then we were in the men's bathroom and men were kissing each other."

"We are saying we are apologizing for the whole incident," Seddique said. "We weren't aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country."

Seddique added, "This had nothing to do with religion."

[Bailey Guns]

We're living in a different country now. A sad and dangerous country brought to you by liberalism. I view liberalism in the same way I view radical Islam. It's the enemy and it must be destroyed. Multiculturalism is yet another failed experiment by the leftists and they'll just continue the narrative and blame it on someone or something else.

It's time to get serious about this. No more liberal friends. No more Mr Nice Guy with liberal family members. They are complicit in destroying our way of life. We are at war with liberalism as surely as we're at war with radical Islam.

Even though this sort of thing really isn't new any more it's still hard to believe it's happening in the same country I was born in 55 years ago.

I pray for the first responders who stand ready to answer the next call.

And I thank God for kevlar:

This is the helmet that saved the life of the wounded officer:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkwmFYCWgAA08ug.jpg

[Big E3]

This whole thing is appalling and should cause people to take up arms for there own protection. But, It will be interesting to see how the dems twist this to tie this terrorist shooting of innocent people into the need to further disarm more Americans with useless new laws.

This guy is a registered Demonrat, that was investigated by the FBI so how does this happen? And, this happened at a gun free night club that prohibits firearms and pats people down before they can get in, how is that possible?

The Demonrats will be somewhat silent until they can figure out there strategy to twist this into Trump's fault and the fault of anybody that supports him.

[Zundfolge]

As it is, they'll try to spin it as a "hate crime".

The spin has already begun and part of the spin is completely ignoring the shooter and any motive.

All the "news" sites are calling it "The Worst Mass Shooting in American History". That is all they will ever say about it. Its just a mass shooting ... its just a columbine or sandy hook now.

[BPTactical]

Who's gonna work Disney world now?

[Bailey Guns]

Who's gonna work Disney world now?

1st Infantry Division?

[Skip]

Shooter's father is trying to spin this into not being anything to do with religion.
Father: Orlando shooter was enraged by same-sex kiss (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/father-orlando-shooter-was-enraged-by-same-sex-kiss/ar-AAgWBCB?li=BBnbcA1)

It's probably a side conversation but it's kind of interesting to compare/contrast the perception of Christians "gay bashing" (which can be as little as saying "I'd don't approve") with a truly violent attack on gays because they are gay.

Those of us who have been paying attention know what Muslims do to gays in the Middle East. It's cruel, evil, yet routine. And routinely ignored by the media. Now that this culture is being imported into the US and Europe, how will Liberals reconcile this?

If anything it might create a bit of perspective and clarity.

They can ban all the guns they want. If Muslim terrorists are in this country and hate gays, it's a non-solution. I wouldn't have any faith in a gun ban keeping me safe if I were gay. And yes, this specific terrorist was born here, but, Dems have changed the culture to justify/ignore terrorism and have embraced Islam without condition.

[Gman]

Self-preservation is the first natural law. Reducing my ability to do so by denying me access to the best tools available "for the common good", flies in the face of logic.

The enemy does not use logic. Their arguments are based in emotion.

[crashdown]

Florida state senator already in front of camera saying we need to close the "gun show loophole" to make people feel safe that something like this could never happen again. It's like she just woke up and has no idea what happened even though she is spoke right after the governor at the official press location near shooting.

[RblDiver]

And of course the description is always "AR-15 assault rifle." I tell ya, ArmaLite has unfortunate initials that dupe the ignorant :P

[JohnnyDrama]

Condolences to friends and family.


This whole thing is appalling and should cause people to take up arms for there own protection. But, It will be interesting to see how the dems twist this to tie this terrorist shooting of innocent people into the need to further disarm more Americans with useless new laws.

Purple/rainbow Glocks anyone? I doubt it, rather B. Hussein's base and the progressives will want more laws.

I agree with those who think that as this wasn't done by an angry white guy the details will soon be forgotten/swept under the rug by the knuckleheads in the media. Only the chant for more gun control will remain.

[henpecked]

I’m not a bar hound so I’m just guessing. (I’m also guessing plenty here can correct me.)
In a normal honky tonk type straight bar situation at 2AM where say there are, say, 30 people…and a guy pulls out a rifle…is it safe to assume that at least 15 pistols would be pointed back at him?

[Gunner]

I’m not a bar hound so I’m just guessing. (I’m also guessing plenty here can correct me.)
In a normal honky tonk type straight bar situation at 2AM where say there are, say, 30 people…and a guy pulls out a rifle…is it safe to assume that at least 15 pistols would be pointed back at him?
Who knows gunman are smarter then to go after people who exercise their right to protect themself and are not afraid to fight back.

Sent from my Galaxy S7

[henpecked]

Any idea which bathroom was the safer place to hide?

[Skip]

I’m not a bar hound so I’m just guessing. (I’m also guessing plenty here can correct me.)
In a normal honky tonk type straight bar situation at 2AM where say there are, say, 30 people…and a guy pulls out a rifle…is it safe to assume that at least 15 pistols would be pointed back at him?

I wish! Most states have laws forbidding carry at bars (where alcohol is served).

Colorado is a little better because our standard is "under the influence" (IIRC) without a prohibition on carrying where alcohol is served but that still creates the same problem. Just one drink can be considered "under the influence" and impair judgment. I wouldn't to be on trial for a shoot with that against me. Most people in a bar who are legal CCW are going to be smart enough to either not be carrying or not be at a bar.

When I want a drink or few, I won't carry (but I don't go out much).

[Skip]

Condolences to friends and family.

Purple/rainbow Glocks anyone? I doubt it, rather B. Hussein's base and the progressives will want more laws.

I agree with those who think that as this wasn't done by an angry white guy the details will soon be forgotten/swept under the rug by the knuckleheads in the media. Only the chant for more gun control will remain.

Sig has been prepared...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/P239_Rainbow_L.jpg

[DEAGLER]

And of course the description is always "AR-15 assault rifle." I tell ya, ArmaLite has unfortunate initials that dupe the ignorant :P
AR15 scare again?

[Big E3]

It appears that the terrorists are getting smarter. In previous shootings they would simply go to a gun free zone and carry out these attacks. Now this guy has figured out that a gun free zone may still have people that carry. This piece of shit has decided to go to a club that serves alcohol, since it is likely illegal to carry while drinking, and perpetrate his act of cowardice.

Does anybody believe that the Demonrats will ever figure out that as usual this has once again happened in a gun free zone. It does not appear that will ever happen because BHO just said it was because of assault rifles. The chief idiot BHO does not admit that this shooter had security credentials and would likely have access to AR15's even when he has taken our access away.

[mtnrider]

And right on cue, Obama comes out to blame the gun....

[Zundfolge]

We all know how the Democrat/Media Complex will spin this.

But we also know that trust of the Democrat/Media Complex is at an all time low.

Sure there will be cries for gun control as a result of this ... its a Pavlovian response from these regressives. BUT this event will also probably cause a resurgence in Pink Pistols chapters across the US and create a bunch more Milo Yiannopouloses.

[Skip]

And right on cue, Obama comes out to blame the gun....

He'll try but I don't think it's going to stick.

In reality there's little else he can do. He has embraced Islam more than any other leader in American history (surpassing Carter for his stupidity). Can he really talk up Islamic terrorism? Or call it extremism when his refugee program is brining in more extremists with ties to ISIS? It's just a no-win situation for Libs politically having two identity groups that are now in open conflict. Will gays back down from having clubs/events? No. Will Muslims back down from killing gays and calling for their deaths? No.

The only opportunity he has is to advance the goal of citizen disarmament which we all know has nothing to do with public safety and (I hope) is being seen as the non-solution it is.

[Bailey Guns]

I'm really anxious for the rest of this part of the story to come out:


Law enforcement sources close to the investigation told Fox News that Mateen was known to authorities as recently as 2013, but was not under investigation.

These sources could not elaborate on why Mateen was on the U.S. government's radar.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Sig has been prepared...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/P239_Rainbow_L.jpg

I don't support changing the language as has been happening with same-sex "marriage" or calling anyone who doesn't support the homosexual/bisexual/whatever agenda a "homophobe" but I am all for the Pink Pistols and allowing anyone -- regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual preference, etc. -- defend him/her/itself with the means provided for under the Constitution. If the gun is colored to be a fashion statement, so be it, as long as the shooter can hit what s/he/it is aiming at (and NOT hit innocents). Besides being somewhat boring, black plastic can be hotter than heck to hold when it's been soaking up the sun's rays. I don't support people packing while they've been drinking or toking but if those partiers had a Designated Defender, someone should have been able to cut down the casualties.

I'm curious if anyone bothered throwing bottles, glasses, chairs, etc. at the shooter ... probably not and I can't say I would definitely have had the presence of mind to do so when taking fire at a party but I'd like to think I would.

[Mazin]

Well this is pretty good timing for Libs as with the last 2 elections. This will put Hillary in office and watch the bans come down.
Fuck!

As with any mass shooting I still can't help but think, "what if there was a ccw holder to return fire?"

[Skip]

Well this is pretty good timing for Libs as with the last 2 elections. This will put Hillary in office and watch the bans come down.
Fuck!

As with any mass shooting I still can't help but think, "what if there was a ccw holder to return fire?"

I don't understanding this defeatist thinking. Follow the logic...

We have ISIS operating in the US. So take away guns and we're suddenly safe? Because ISIS will obey laws like they did in Paris? Of course not! WE HAVE ISIS IN THE US!!! The Dems can't even bring themselves to admit this or utter the words "Islamic terror."

The people who will support the non-solutions are the dedicated useful idiot Dem voters will always be useful idiot Dem voters.



I don't support changing the language as has been happening with same-sex "marriage" or calling anyone who doesn't support the homosexual/bisexual/whatever agenda a "homophobe" but I am all for the Pink Pistols and allowing anyone -- regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual preference, etc. -- defend him/her/itself with the means provided for under the Constitution.

[snip]

Absolutely! 2A is the most democratic right we have. Most just don't realize it. Without 2A there are no other rights.

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah...I don't see this really helping Hillary. May not hurt her, either. The vast majority of people who would vote for this traitorous witch don't give a rat's ass about 2A freedoms. You can bet Trump will try to get some political mileage out of this from 2A and anti-Muslim standpoints.

[Bailey Guns]

ISIS is now owning the shooting. Probably bullshit...just trying to get some mileage outta the fact a member of the religion of peace did the shooting. But, who knows?

[Gman]

Sig has been prepared...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/P239_Rainbow_L.jpg
My wife has had a rainbow P238 for a couple of years.

Right off the MSN Homepage is a picture of an AR-15 with the column titled: The gun used in the Orlando shooting is becoming mass shooters’ weapon of choice (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/the-gun-used-in-the-orlando-shooting-is-becoming-mass-shooters%E2%80%99-weapon-of-choice/ar-AAgWXH1?li=BBnbcA1)

Most common firearms used in the country are used in crimes. Hmm, never saw this coming. [Bang] [Sarcasm2]

[RblDiver]

ISIS is now owning the shooting. Probably bullshit...just trying to get some mileage outta the fact a member of the religion of peace did the shooting. But, who knows?

Well, the reports are that the gunman called 911 prior to the shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS. So, while I doubt they had direct control over sending this guy, the connection IS there.

[Irving]

I’m not a bar hound so I’m just guessing. (I’m also guessing plenty here can correct me.)
In a normal honky tonk type straight bar situation at 2AM where say there are, say, 30 people…and a guy pulls out a rifle…is it safe to assume that at least 15 pistols would be pointed back at him?


No.

[Irving]

Kind of disheartening to see all the whining about the Democrats in this thread. Neither the Democratic party, nor the media, or even liberals in general committed this crime or allowed it to happen in anyway. Night clubs have been target rich environments with pat downs for decades, and they always will be.

[Bailey Guns]

Well, the reports are that the gunman called 911 prior to the shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS. So, while I doubt they had direct control over sending this guy, the connection IS there.

No doubt there's a connection. But I don't think ISIS directly recruited this guy to do the shooting. I think he's just a radical douche, pledged his allegiance to the other radical douches, did the shooting, and now ISIS is claiming it. Of course that's just pure speculation on my part.

[wctriumph]

Kind of disheartening to see all the whining about the Democrats in this thread. Neither the Democratic party, nor the media, or even liberals in general committed this crime or allowed it to happen in anyway. Night clubs have been target rich environments with pat downs for decades, and they always will be.

Truth. I went on a pub crawl last night here in Ft. Collins after a birthday dinner for my daughter and there were three bars that would not let me carry my umbrella inside. We did not go into those particular bars and clubs. Just about every "security" person at the door carding people were of college student age and would not have been able to stop anyone from doing evil.

[Irving]

No doubt there's a connection. But I don't think ISIS directly recruited this guy to do the shooting. I think he's just a radical douche, pledged his allegiance to the other radical douches, did the shooting, and now ISIS is claiming it. Of course that's just pure speculation on my part.

If I understand correctly, there are lots of small sects of people that pledge "allegiance" to ISIS or Boko Harram (sp?), then do things locally to get noticed. Then when they do get noticed, the larger groups claim the event.

[Skip]

My wife has had a rainbow P238 for a couple of years.

Right off the MSN Homepage is a picture of an AR-15 with the column titled: The gun used in the Orlando shooting is becoming mass shooters’ weapon of choice (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/the-gun-used-in-the-orlando-shooting-is-becoming-mass-shooters%E2%80%99-weapon-of-choice/ar-AAgWXH1?li=BBnbcA1)
Most common firearms used in the country are used in crimes. Hmm, never saw this coming. [Bang] [Sarcasm2]

I got nothing against the rainbow Sigs. At least it's still a Sig. :)

[fportmen45]

Watch RGR & SWHC go through the roof tomorrow.

[ColoradoTJ]

Looks like another man was detained in CA with some bad intent...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/man-with-weapons-arrested-in-california-ahead-gay-pride-parade-report-says.html

[trlcavscout]

I see a bunch of chatter about possibly two more shooters? I dont have cable so i am just watching social media. Any confirmation on the weapons used?

[ColoradoTJ]

I see a bunch of chatter about possibly two more shooters? I dont have cable so i am just watching social media. Any confirmation on the weapons used?

Haven't heard anything about multiple shooters in Orlando.

[kidicarus13]

Any confirmation on the weapons used?

AR and 9mm Glock

[Rucker61]

Announcement from the Pink Pistols:

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

"Gwendolyn Patton, First Speaker of the Pink Pistols, an international GLBT self-defense organization, warns people not to jump immediately to the assailant’s guns as the object of blame, but to concentrate instead on Mateen’s violent acts. “The Pink Pistols gives condolences to all family and friends of those killed and injured at Pulse,” began Patton. “This is exactly the kind of heinous act that justifies our existence. At such a time of tragedy, let us not reach for the low-hanging fruit of blaming the killer’s guns. Let us stay focused on the fact that someone hated gay people so much they were ready to kill or injure so many. A human being did this. The human being’s tools are unimportant when compared to the bleakness of that person’s soul. I say again, GUNS did not do this. A human being did this, a dead human being. Our job now is not to demonize the man’s tools, but to condemn his acts and work to prevent such acts in the future.”"

[Gman]

I get so tired of the MSM. I keep reading this in articles; Orlando shooting: 'It's way too easy to kill people,' says Congressman, as 50 die in attack (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jun/12/florida-nightclub-shooting-terrorism-suspect-updates)

...and yet none of them indicate who this Congressman is or quote this statement. Did it actually happen?

...and yes, it is easy to kill people. Just educate yourself on the Bronx "Happy Land fire" where an arsonist killed 87 people in a nightclub with a plastic container of gasoline and a lighter.

If you have illusions that our government can protect us...FBI: Suspect in nightclub rampage investigated twice for ties to Islamic extremism (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/12/king-nelson-schiff-suggest-orlando-shooter-had-ties-to-radical-islam.html)

ETA: Finally found the attribution after digging down multiple pages;

'It is way too easy to kill people in America'Alan Grayson, the Democratic representative for Florida’s 9th congressional district, has had some strong words to say about gun control in the wake of the shooting. Speaking to CNN he said:


If he was who he was and he was not able to buy a weapon that shoots over 700 rounds in a minute, all of these people would still be alive. If somebody like him had nothing worse than a Glock pistol he might have killed three or four people and not 50. It is way too easy to kill people in America today.

...and it's a really stupid and uneducated statement to make.

[waxthis]

More B.S from CNN........................[facepalm]

"That approach stood in stark contrast with Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Connecticut, who said blame for mass shootings lies with Congress for its failure to enact stricter gun control measures.
"Congress has become complicit in these murders by its total, unconscionable deafening silence," he said in a statement. "This doesn't have to happen, but this epidemic will continue without end if Congress continues to sit on its hands and do nothing -- again."
Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Democratic presidential contender, offered similar comments on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"We should not be selling automatic weapons which are designed to kill people," Sanders said. "We have got to do everything that we can on top of that to make sure that guns do not fall into the hands of people who should not have them, criminals, people who are mentally ill. So that struggles continues.""

[flogger]

It sounds like the FBI dropped the ball on this one. Must have been too busy working on Hillary's bailout.

[clodhopper]

65851

[hollohas]

The liberals will capitalize on this without a doubt. It’s a triple whammy they will use to push a few agendas that they haven’t had success with recently.

First, and immediately apparent, is gun control. They haven’t been able to use any tragedies to increase gun control since new town. Most of the recent killings have been with guns that were already illegal. Stolen, straw purchased, felon in possession, etc. Many recent court rulings have landed on our side. Hard to push new laws when existing laws were broken already. In this case, it seems the guy was completely legal. If no existing law was broken, in their minds it’s obvious we need more laws. Expect a fed push against “high capacity” mags again especially. “Assault rifles” will be at the front of the agenda again.

Second, and related to the first, BG check laws. They have wanted to make background checks more complete. Marking people on a watchlist as prohibited. They got nowhere with that push. Well, sounds like this guy was most likely on some sort of watch list as the FBI had contacted him according to reports. Expect the liberals to push for massive changes to background checks including adding the watchlist persons with little pushback. When that happens, we all know the watchlist will be used to punish fed administrations (current or future).

Third, LGBT issues. Recently the public acceptance of LGBT has been on decline because of the bathroom issue being forced down our throats. The vast majority of the public knows that the government pushing to legally allow men in women’s bathrooms/locker rooms is downright insane. Even people who previously supported LGBT agree that went way too far. People are starting to realize that we have allowed LGBT bullies to push way too far into our lives. Just try to criticize them after this tragedy. I predict that any and all criticism of LGBT will be met with the full force of Dem/Media/Government/public shaming now. They will be off limits to criticism even more than before. That issue will be untouchable now.

This muslim terrorist asshole really hit hard at the core the traditional American values and social issues that are currently under the threat of liberalism. The timing is super ironic. IMO he gave the Dems a huge heap of fuel to push their agenda. More than they have had in a LONG time. Previous tragedies have all given dems a single target…guns. This one not only gives them fuel for their anti-gun fight, it also gives them fuel to fight for that fundamental societal change they have wanted for so long. Not good folks. “Let no tragedy go to waste”. The largest mass shooting in American history? Oh, there is no way they are going to let this go by without a full force assault on our way of life.

[roberth]

It sounds like the FBI dropped the ball on this one. Must have been too busy working on Hillary's bailout.

What would you have had the FBI do?

[HoneyBadger]

What would you have had the FBI do?
Throw Hillary in jail for the rest of her life. [Muaha]

[Martinjmpr]

The liberals will capitalize on this without a doubt. It’s a triple whammy they will use to push a few agendas that they haven’t had success with recently.
...
Not good folks. “Let no tragedy go to waste”. The largest mass shooting in American history? Oh, there is no way they are going to let this go by without a full force assault on our way of life.

Hmmm....I don't see it that way at all. If this had been a white supremacist/Christian identity or some similar, Timothy McVeigh type terrorist who did the shooting, I could see it becoming exactly what you say, but the fact that this guy was a radical muslim is really problematic for the libs. After all, they can't say "not all muslims are terrorists" and then turn around and say 'but all gun owners need to be punished or have their rights curtailed" etc.

Furthermore, this does absolutely nothing to push forward the "universal background check" movement, in fact it actually undermines it by showing how worthless background checks are. Ditto for the supposed "watch list" since this guy was interviewed and "cleared" by the FBI. This proves how useless BGCs and Watch Lists really are for identifying potential "Lone wolf" terrorists.

So what are the democrats going to do? They aren't going to pass any laws at the Federal level because both houses are controlled by the Republicans and the R's have no reason to cut deals with the D's at this point. Obama is a lame duck and his credibility with Congress is zero.

To sum up, they can yell and scream, ball up their fists, rage in televised editorials, "demand" this, that and the other thing, but actually changing any laws? I don't see it happening.

What's sadly ironic about this shooting is that it gives red meat to both of the presidential candidates: Hillary can blame "GUNS!" and Trump can blame "MUSLIMS!" and their die-hard supporters will nod along and agree with them, so the end result will be that very little of consequence will happen.

Now if this had happened when the Dems controlled both houses of Congress, then yes I could see some kind of Federal action. But Dems have spent so much time hating on the Republicans that if the president "asks" (demands) that Congress "Act now", they will just tell his lame-duck ass to FOAD.

[buffalobo]

How many shootings will it take before people no longer enter establishments who frisk for weapons?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[hollohas]

Furthermore, this does absolutely nothing to push forward the "universal background check" movement, in fact it actually undermines it by showing how worthless background checks are. Ditto for the supposed "watch list" since this guy was interviewed and "cleared" by the FBI. This proves how useless BGCs and Watch Lists really are for identifying potential "Lone wolf" terrorists.



Absolutely disagree. Last year there was a push to allow the watchlist to be include in BGC's using it as a prohibited person list. The admin was very clear in their arguement that they thought watchlist persons shouldn't be allowed to buy guns and articulated that by saying it allowed potential domestic terrorists to buy guns.

Their arguement went nowhere and rightfully so. BGC's continued to ignore any watchlist.

Then this weekend, we have a guy who was clearly on the list but was able to pass the BGC because the checks don't reference the lists. Exactly the situation the admin argued would happen if we don't prohibit persons on the list from buying. They specifically told us this would happen. There is no way they don't use this to drum up support to add the watchlist to background checks. Actually, media folks are already calling for this very thing.

This guy may have been "cleared" by the FBI but he was still on the list, no doubt. They will tell us that he wouldn't even have had a gun if we include the list is BGCs. Guaranteed.

[Great-Kazoo]

For those who ask "What can they do?"

2 words . Executive Order.


Exploit the tragedy to their advantage. Why wait for a Liberal friendly SCOTUS, when an EO will give them a solid footing, showing they did something come Nov.

[Zundfolge]

Milo Yiannopoulos for the win.

https://www.ar-15.co/attachment.php?attachmentid=65853&d=1465829077


For those who ask "What can they do?"

2 words . Executive Order.


The one thing they might be able to get out of this is the inclusion of the Terrorism Watch List in NICS. Which would be used to silence gun rights supporters.

[Martinjmpr]

For those who ask "What can they do?"

2 words . Executive Order.


Exploit the tragedy to their advantage. Why wait for a Liberal friendly SCOTUS, when an EO will give them a solid footing, showing they did something come Nov.

Executive orders can't modify or contradict existing law. For example, Obama could not issue an EO that banned the sale of AR type weapons, even if he wanted to. Same thing for people on the watch list - the 14th amendment prohibits depriving people of constitutional rights without due process and Heller and McDonald have both stated that possessing a firearm is a fundamental constitutional right.

[hollohas]

Executive orders can't modify or contradict existing law. For example, Obama could not issue an EO that banned the sale of AR type weapons, even if he wanted to. Same thing for people on the watch list - the 14th amendment prohibits depriving people of constitutional rights without due process and Heller and McDonald have both stated that possessing a firearm is a fundamental constitutional right.

This government no longer honors the Constitution. People are deprived of their rights every single day. The feds have zero respect for the document and outright ignore it constantly.

I agree with the first part regarding EO and AR's. The second part of your arguement regarding the watchlist is vaild in theory however simply won't hold up in reality, no matter how much we all wish it were true.

[KS63]

I haven't read anything that describes the so called off duty officer who engaged the gunman and his condition. Anyone?

[hollohas]

FYI -

Here was the attempt last year to include the watchlist in BGCs.

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/114th-congress/senate-amendment/2910


To increase public safety by permitting the Attorney General to deny the transfer of firearms or the issuance of firearms and explosives licenses to known or suspected dangerous terrorists.

It failed, but only barely. With public opinion swayed by emotion, it would have a good chance of passing with another try. One Republican even voted in favor of it last time.

[Martinjmpr]

FYI -

Here was the attempt last year to include the watchlist in BGCs.

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/114th-congress/senate-amendment/2910



It failed, but only barely. With public opinion swayed by emotion, it would have a good chance of passing with another try. One Republican even voted in favor of it last time.

But that proves my point. There's no doubt that if Obama thought he could get away with outlawing a broad class of guns with the stroke of a pen, he would do it.

He doesn't because he knows that (a) it would be overturned by the courts before the ink was dry and (b) it would only galvanize the opposition which would hurt his party in the long run.

Obama's only tactic now is to try and browbeat Republicans into supporting his agenda, but he really can't do that anymore because he's a lame duck and nobody is really listening to him.

Now, at the state level, any state that is under democratic control might well pass a series of laws in response to this, as we saw here in CO in 2013. But at the federal level, I doubt we'll see anything until/unless the next president gets into office (and BTW despite his recent "conversion" to be pro-2nd amendment, I could absolutely see Trump signing an assault weapons ban, since he has supported the AW ban previously. Unlike Obama, who still owes loyalty to the Democratic party, Trump doesn't give two craps about what happens to the Republican party once he gets elected.)

[Great-Kazoo]

Executive orders can't modify or contradict existing law. For example, Obama could not issue an EO that banned the sale of AR type weapons, even if he wanted to. Same thing for people on the watch list - the 14th amendment prohibits depriving people of constitutional rights without due process and Heller and McDonald have both stated that possessing a firearm is a fundamental constitutional right.

Like OK now able to scan a drivers credit cards?
Keep telling yourself that. This administration, like others before. Have no issue skirting the Constitution.

[Dave_L]

"Bathroom laws wont stop rapists being rapists. The fear that no gender specific bathrooms creates opportunity and turns people into rapists is an irrational fear."

"Laws will stop murderers. We have to take away the opportunity for them to get guns."

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[Martinjmpr]

Like OK now able to scan a drivers credit cards?
Keep telling yourself that. This administration, like others before. Have no issue skirting the Constitution.

The state of Oklahoma and the Obama administration are not the same thing. ;)

As for the asset forfeiture issue I'm in agreement that it goes way too far, and from the article it seems that there are lawmakers in OK who agree with this and are proposing laws to rein in the practice.

For those who are just throwing their hands in the air and saying "nobody pays attention to the Constitution anyway", well, if that's true why would Obama even need an executive order? Just declare himself President for Life and send the goon squad in to haul you off to the concentration camp. :rolleyes:

Obama couldn't even muster enough Congressional support to pass any kind of increased gun control laws after a maniac massacred 20 first graders. With less than 7 months in office he doesn't have any more political capital than that now.

What I foresee is a lot of posturing, pious declarations that "we have to do something" and facebook trolls telling us how awful the Republicans in Congress are. And nothing more.

In fact, since Hillary is already seen as the anti-gun zombie queen, and will likely ramp up her anti gun rhetoric, I see this actually bringing pro-gun voters out to vote in November. Even if they don't pull the lever for Trump just getting them to the polls is going to hurt the Democrats in a big way on the down-ticket elections. Hillary may very well win (I think she will) but if even one house of Congress is in Republican hands - as it's likely to be - then her chance of getting any gun control expansion at the Federal level is likely dead.

[DenverGP]

Then this weekend, we have a guy who was clearly on the list but was able to pass the BGC because the checks don't reference the lists. Exactly the situation the admin argued would happen if we don't prohibit persons on the list from buying. They specifically told us this would happen. There is no way they don't use this to drum up support to add the watchlist to background checks. Actually, media folks are already calling for this very thing.

This guy may have been "cleared" by the FBI but he was still on the list, no doubt.

He was not on the "no fly" or "watch" list. He was interviewed and cleared by the FBI.

[hollohas]

He was not on the "no fly" or "watch" list. He was interviewed and cleared by the FBI.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-omar-mateen-was-taken-off-a-terrorist-1465772737-htmlstory.html


Omar Mateen was placed on a terrorist watch list maintained by the FBI when its agents questioned him in 2013 and 2014 about potential ties to terrorism, according to U.S. law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the case.

[thedave1164]

I haven't read anything that describes the so called off duty officer who engaged the gunman and his condition. Anyone?

Press conference now and we have a slightly better idea as to what happened.

- At approximately 0200, shooter arrives on scene and engages the single off-duty uniformed officer at one of the entrances to the facility. A gun battles ensues after which the shooter enters the club.
- Shortly after this, two on-duty officers arrive and all 3 LEOs make entry to the club. Another gun battle ensues which forces the shooter to barricade himself in the bathroom.
- Suspect takes hostages in the bathroom and makes claims about possessing a suicide vest. It is at this point the 3 initial officers pull back and call for SWAT/EOD/Negotiators.
- The reason for the Bearcat was due to a failed explosive breach attempt on the exterior wall of the bathroom.

[Bailey Guns]

Sounds like those first officers may have saved lots of lives.

[RblDiver]

I thought Ross on KHOW had a good idea this morning. Preventing him from buying just because he was interviewed by the FBI would be too far...but perhaps the system could send an email to the FBI, "Hey, you interviewed this guy, he's doing a BGC, just a heads-up" that someone could see and decide whether to act on it or not.

[Skip]

The liberals will capitalize on this without a doubt. It’s a triple whammy they will use to push a few agendas that they haven’t had success with recently.

[snip]

We've been over this defeatist fear mongering in the previous pages. They will try. Their obstacle: HE WAS A MUSLIM TERRORIST WITH CONNECTIONS TO ISIS WHOSE ACTIONS ARE FULLY CONSISTENT WITH THE TEACHINGS OF "RADICAL" ISLAM. All of the people demanding gun control are the ones who have advanced the population and accommodation of Muslims in the West.

Had a Tim McVeigh, Dylan Roof, or James Holmes been the murderer this would be really bad for gun rights! But that isn't the case.

That is a huge barrier for Libs. Take away all the guns. Muslims still hate gays and will continue to murder them. Muslims still commit acts of terror. Gun control is a non solution. There is a theory that Muslim terrorists are using guns (and certain guns) to attack our gun rights to soften us up and that isn't going unnoticed as their political ally (Democrats) seize a moment to push their agenda.

The more they try and seize on this moment the more polarizing it becomes. It takes a lot of faith to think Muslims will stop Jihadding because there are less guns in the US or less legal access to guns.



[snip]

Second, and related to the first, BG check laws. They have wanted to make background checks more complete. Marking people on a watchlist as prohibited. They got nowhere with that push. Well, sounds like this guy was most likely on some sort of watch list as the FBI had contacted him according to reports. Expect the liberals to push for massive changes to background checks including adding the watchlist persons with little pushback. When that happens, we all know the watchlist will be used to punish fed administrations (current or future).

[snip]

[limbering up for the Liberal mental gymnastics]

The FBI had this guy TWICE! He was never put on the no-fly list (AFAIK) because he was able to travel to Saudi Arabia. If the FBI were instructed to put Muslims on the no-fly list do we really think Liberals would be okay with 90+% of the folks on that list being Muslim? If anyone warrants being put on that list it would be someone with ties to ISIS who traveled to Saudi Arabia and attended a "radical" mosque, right?

Do you really think Liberals are serious about pushing a mechanism for profiling a key constituency of their coalition? Sure, they get to abuse it and add their political enemies but think about what abusing that list means: You can't buy guns and you can't fly. The IRS abuse slipped by because few people were Tea Partiers. But a lot of people fly.



[snip]

Third, LGBT issues. Recently the public acceptance of LGBT has been on decline because of the bathroom issue being forced down our throats. The vast majority of the public knows that the government pushing to legally allow men in women’s bathrooms/locker rooms is downright insane. Even people who previously supported LGBT agree that went way too far. People are starting to realize that we have allowed LGBT bullies to push way too far into our lives. Just try to criticize them after this tragedy. I predict that any and all criticism of LGBT will be met with the full force of Dem/Media/Government/public shaming now. They will be off limits to criticism even more than before. That issue will be untouchable now.

[snip]

Actually this puts Libs in an awkward position to have to define who is higher on the Special Snowflake Hierarchy; LBGTQ or Muslims. Their move. Note the importation of Muslims who hold "radical" beliefs about gays (Sharia) isn't stopping and Libs won't even discuss it. Coexistence is not possible and many of us have seen this conflict of identity groups coming for years. Feminists will have the same problem. You know that invented college "rape culture" they complain about? Islam is real rape culture. No imagination required.

While I'm sure some will say you can't resist the LGBTQBBQ agenda after this it actually creates a lot of contrast and demonstrates just how tolerant Americans are. For as much as people allegedly "hate" gays in America there are remarkably few attacks on gays in the US.

There will be continued examples of this in Europe that offers contrast as well. Assault and random homicides in Europe of gays have become regular and often covered up by gov and media. Guess who the perps are? Not people who want their kids safe in the public restrooms.

[Skip]

To illustrate what I've said. Below is a screenshot of Muslims reacting on Twitter. Do gun laws end this hate? Does fewer guns change this dynamic between the Dem identity groups?

(Link instead of imbed due to offensive language)

http://i.imgur.com/0QkDoeS.jpg

---

Here is a story about the terrorist's dad, who also hates gays, visiting members of the party trying to blame guns...

http://injo.com/2016/06/627509-the-father-of-the-orlando-shooter-recently-visited-state-department-writes-open-letters-to-president-obama

[Martinjmpr]

The more they try and seize on this moment the more polarizing it becomes. It takes a lot of faith to think Muslims will stop Jihadding because there are less guns in the US or less legal access to guns.

Pretty much my take on it, too.

To those who call for "more gun control", the counter - argument goes like this: In a similar type attack, ISIS terrorists managed to kill, what, 130 people in Paris in November?

Do you suppose those terrorists had background checks before they bought those AKs from a French gun store?

No?

Well then what would gun control accomplish except to disarm the law abiding?

Obviously people who already wanted to ban guns before are going to want to even harder now, but I don't think that very many pro-gun people will be switching sides. Same for congress. Those who are on the pro-gun side are not going to suddenly shift over to the anti gun side.

That's one of the things about "shocking" events, the more they happen, the less "shock value" they have.

[hollohas]

The FBI had this guy TWICE! He was never put on the no-fly list (AFAIK) because he was able to travel to Saudi Arabia. If the FBI were instructed to put Muslims on the no-fly list do we really think Liberals would be okay with 90+% of the folks on that list being Muslim? If anyone warrants being put on that list it would be someone with ties to ISIS who traveled to Saudi Arabia and attended a "radical" mosque, right?

Do you really think Liberals are serious about pushing a mechanism for profiling a key constituency of their coalition? Sure, they get to abuse it and add their political enemies but think about what abusing that list means: You can't buy guns and you can't fly. The IRS abuse slipped by because few people were Tea Partiers. But a lot of people fly.




You are misunderstanding the lists. The no fly list is not the same thing as the consolidated terrorist watchlist mantained by the TSC. The no fly list is a much smaller subset list.

And I do think they are serious, hence the amended bill they tried to pass last year that would add the watchlist to the BGC system...all but one of the dem senators voted in favor of it.

Some of you guys are much more optimistic than me. And that's cool. I hope you're all right. And, personally, I'm not being a defeatist. I dont believe the libs have won. I am however offering my prediction of the tactics I expect them to use. We are in an ideological battle with liberals over the future of this country. And to win a battle, you have to predict what your enemy will do and be ready for it.

We know from past siuations, it doesn't matter what Muslims do, liberals will always delfect and redirect the outrage to right. They defend muslims no matter what. There are reports rolling in that the liberals are already defending islam and asking for everyone to avoid turning this into an anti-islam movement. One of our local state political critters was at a Denver gay nightclub last night for a candlelight vigil. While there he called for tolerance and the condemnation of "bigotry" towards Muslims. Already they're redirecting this and making Muslims out as potential victims here.

You guys are logical folks. In your mind there is no way they can spin this in their favor because that wouldn't make sense. But liberals are insane and the general populace is stupid. They are a certainly capable of spinning this in their favor. The general populace runs on emotion, not logic.

[JohnnyDrama]

Interesting reads there, Skip. His dad appears to be quite a character. The "Special Snowflake Hierarchy" is something I've pondered as well. These are interesting times indeed....

[funkymonkey1111]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-omar-mateen-cool-and-calm-police-negotiators-pulse-nightclub/

Sig Sauer MCX and Glock 17

[Gman]

Keep telling yourself that. This administration, like others before. Have no issue skirting the Constitution.
Consti-wut?

[Martinjmpr]

I wouldn't say I'm "optimistic" it's just that by this point, the likelihood that this is going to change anyone's position is pretty small. Those people that have chosen sides are going to stay where they are. It's not like a congressman is going to say "when it was only 32 people being gunned down I was still a strong 2A supporter but as soon as the count hits 50 I'm going to switch sides." People don't generally think like that.

Every news agency has the furrowed-brow commentators saying "will THIS be the shooting that brings about a change to the gun control debate?" but, again, that's not how people think. Once people are committed to one side, they're very unlikely to change unless something happens to them personally.

Then there's the Radical Islam issue which actually undermines the gun control push. After all, if "lone wolf" attacks like this are, for all practical purposes, impossible to detect or to stop, then most of us would want to be armed against the possibility that such a lone wolf attack might occur around us.

And that's the real issue: With anywhere between 25 - 45% of the population being gun owners (or sympathetic to gun ownership) there will be no significant change in the law until gun owners themselves consent to it.

And in that sense, the anti-gunner demonization of gun owners actually works against them. Because it basically tells gun owners "The liberals already hate you and think you're a stupid redneck idiot just for owning guns." With that viewpoint there's very little incentive for gun owners to get on the gun control bandwagon and until they do, there won't be much change in gun laws.

[Skip]

You are misunderstanding the lists. The no fly list is not the same thing as the consolidated terrorist watchlist mantained by the TSC. The no fly list is a much smaller subset list.

And I do think they are serious, hence the amended bill they tried to pass last year that would add the watchlist to the BGC system...all but one of the dem senators voted in favor of it.

[snip]

The list bans someone from legally purchasing a gun. Great. Does it prevent someone from...

- Purchasing a vehicle
- Having access to the banking system
- Purchasing common household chemicals
- Traveling out of an into the country at will
- Taking a job in a sensitive industry or obtain a sensitive position


You just can't cover all these bases even with a small population while Dems are importing more. I imagine it wouldn't take long for a creative ISIS type to find a way to again, put a large number of bodies in the ground.

Another non-solution that will be dismantled once it's revealed to profile certain people. Or made useless if the gov doesn't profile those certain people.

[Skip]

Pretty much my take on it, too.

To those who call for "more gun control", the counter - argument goes like this: In a similar type attack, ISIS terrorists managed to kill, what, 130 people in Paris in November?

Do you suppose those terrorists had background checks before they bought those AKs from a French gun store?

No?

Well then what would gun control accomplish except to disarm the law abiding?

Obviously people who already wanted to ban guns before are going to want to even harder now, but I don't think that very many pro-gun people will be switching sides. Same for congress. Those who are on the pro-gun side are not going to suddenly shift over to the anti gun side.

That's one of the things about "shocking" events, the more they happen, the less "shock value" they have.

E-freakin-xactly!



[snip]

Then there's the Radical Islam issue which actually undermines the gun control push. After all, if "lone wolf" attacks like this are, for all practical purposes, impossible to detect or to stop, then most of us would want to be armed against the possibility that such a lone wolf attack might occur around us.

[snip]

This is message that gun rights groups/folks should be pushing. FedGov just demonstrated not only are they unable to keep us safe, but are actually moving the needle in the wrong direction because of PC and Dems advancing their own interests. Is this the time to give up gun rights?

Gov is creating a security vacuum and only pretending they can fill it.

[Jer]

So the same people who say that this POS doesn't represent ALL Muslims wants me to believe that he represents ALL gun owners?

Yous a special kinda stupid, ain't ya?

[hurley842002]

So the same people who say that this POS doesn't represent ALL Muslims wants me to believe that he represents ALL gun owners?

Yous a special kinda stupid, ain't ya?

Word

[Aloha_Shooter]

So the same people who say that this POS doesn't represent ALL Muslims wants me to believe that he represents ALL gun owners?

Yous a special kinda stupid, ain't ya?

Unfortunately, it's a very common kind of stupid as ~35% of the country will vote Democrat no matter what and Obama won re-election even after we'd seen 4 years of his incompetence, lies, and manipulations.

[hollohas]

Then there's the Radical Islam issue which actually undermines the gun control push. After all, if "lone wolf" attacks like this are, for all practical purposes, impossible to detect or to stop, then most of us would want to be armed against the possibility that such a lone wolf attack might occur around us.

That's how a logical person like you thinks. But the general population bases their opinions on emotion, not logic. I agree that none of the firmly entrenched sides will ever change. But it’s the passive middle ground folks who can be swayed to at least keep their mouths shut and look the other way while the government removes more freedom.




And that's the real issue: With anywhere between 25 - 45% of the population being gun owners (or sympathetic to gun ownership) there will be no significant change in the law until gun owners themselves consent to it.

And in that sense, the anti-gunner demonization of gun owners actually works against them. Because it basically tells gun owners "The liberals already hate you and think you're a stupid redneck idiot just for owning guns." With that viewpoint there's very little incentive for gun owners to get on the gun control bandwagon and until they do, there won't be much change in gun laws.

If this were true, standard mags and private party transfer would still be legal in CO. We didn't consent to that shit but it still happened. Yes, state vs national, but it still holds true at a larger scale. Gun owners have historically not jumped on ANY anti-gun bandwagon, but many anti-gun laws have been passed at both the state and federal level. Some die (the AWB) others live on (NFA) but they all passed at some point despite gun owners' rejections.

It's no cause for fear or panic, it's just a realization that cracks do exist. We just need to remain aware that the possibility for anti-gun legislation to pass is real, not imagined, and remain prepared to defend against that threat instead of assuming it’s not going to happen.


The list bans someone from legally purchasing a gun. Great. Does it prevent someone from...

- Purchasing a vehicle
- Having access to the banking system
- Purchasing common household chemicals
- Traveling out of an into the country at will
- Taking a job in a sensitive industry or obtain a sensitive position


You just can't cover all these bases even with a small population while Dems are importing more. I imagine it wouldn't take long for a creative ISIS type to find a way to again, put a large number of bodies in the ground.

Another non-solution that will be dismantled once it's revealed to profile certain people. Or made useless if the gov doesn't profile those certain people.

Again, you are a logical person thinking logically. The rest of the yahoo's live by emotion.

If it saves even one life...





Gov is creating a security vacuum and only pretending they can fill it.

Most people actually believe the government CAN keep them safe. Most actually depend on it.

They are already deflecting this away from islam. The problem is guns and decades of anti-gay attitudes in this country...is what the left thinks. They live in an entirely different reality than us. If you guys keep believing they use the same logic as us, they will surprise you. They simply don't think like us...

http://www.9news.com/news/nation-now/anti-gay-community-has-blood-on-its-hands-column/242669705


The Orlando shooting is the culmination of decades of anti-gay attitudes.
Every anti-gay politician, every bigoted preacher, every self-hating bully has blood on his hands. Make no mistake about it, the shooting in Orlando which targeted the LGBT community was the end result of decades of anti-gay hate speech and gay bashings.
Every time a politician or community leader has advocated second-class citizenship for gay Americans, it has given permission to the haters to strike out — in this case in a mass slaughter.


Or perhaps, the problem is MEN in general...

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/overcompensation_nation_its_time_to_admit_that_tox ic_masculinity_drives_gun_violence/


In the wake of the horrific shooting in Orlando that left 50 dead, a political struggle is forming on whether to define this act as an anti-gay crime or an act of radical Islamic terrorism.

The answer, it’s quickly starting to seem, is both of these, and more. A picture is quickly starting to form of who Omar Mateen, the shooter, was. His ex-wife describes a man who was controlling and abusive (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/sitora-yusufiy-omar-mateen-orlando-shooting.html). A colleague says he (http://www.nytimes.com/live/orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-updates/suspect-spoke-of-killing) was always using racial and sexual slurs and “talked about killing people all the time.” Both his ex-wife and his father describe him as homophobic, with his father saying he spun into a rage at the sight of two men kissing. He was clearly fond of guns, having not one, but two concealed carry licenses (http://gawker.com/orlando-nightclub-shooter-identified-as-omar-mateen-po-1781834616). He worked at a security firm, a career that can be attractive to men with dominance and control issues. He was investigated by the FBI in 2013 for making threats to a coworker.
There is a common theme here: Toxic masculinity.


The left WILL try to twist this into something else entirely. That's what they do. I can post examples all day long but I'll spare you the insanity.

Ok, one more. El Presidente was complaining about the watchlist issue just last week....

From the UK Dailymail and a particular anti-gun Brit we all hate, soIi'm not going to link.


However, his deadly spree is hugely significant, far more than a regular mass shooting.


Why?


Because it conflates the two most feared and lethal scourges of American society: guns and home-grown Islamic terror.


And, of course, it brings with it this tremendous irony: the very same people who are most vocal in their determination to get rid of the latter – Republicans - are equally desperate to keep the former.


Last week, President Obama took part in an astoundingly prescient townhall for PBS.
During the debate, he revealed he’d spent that very morning in the Situation Room at the White House being briefed on various U.S. citizens who were known to have visited and participated in ISIS websites.
‘We’re allowed to put them on the no-fly list when it comes to airlines,’ he said, ‘but because of the NRA, I cannot prohibit these people from buying a gun. This is somebody who is a known ISIL sympathizer, and if he wants to walk into a gun store or a gun show right now and buy as many weapons or ammo as he can, nothing’s prohibiting him from doing that, even though the FBI knows who that person is.’


A week later, that’s exactly what happened. Not with that particular suspect, but with someone very similar.




Link to transcript from oh bummer. Ironic timing, huh?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/obama-to-gun-owners-im-not-looking-to-disarm-you/

[Hound]

I like this line of thought. Great point.


So the same people who say that this POS doesn't represent ALL Muslims wants me to believe that he represents ALL gun owners?

Yous a special kinda stupid, ain't ya?

[hurley842002]

Phoenix LGBT endorsing Trump after attacks....

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160613/9c12efc86bbef6fe95c35a99f36c4723.jpg

(screen shot from their twitter feed)

[RblDiver]

Someone on Facebook shared a post which pointed out that (depending on your point of view) this was NOT the largest mass shooting in the US, and that dubious "honor" goes to Wounded Knee, which, coincidentally, arose from trying to disarm people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre

[Monky]

All over Facebook it's gay people supporting trump


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[Martinjmpr]

If this were true, standard mags and private party transfer would still be legal in CO. We didn't consent to that shit but it still happened. Yes, state vs national, but it still holds true at a larger scale. Gun owners have historically not jumped on ANY anti-gun bandwagon, but many anti-gun laws have been passed at both the state and federal level. Some die (the AWB) others live on (NFA) but they all passed at some point despite gun owners' rejections.

Hate to break it to you but the majority of gun owners are not represented by the people on this board or the NRA (and FWIW I am an NRA member.) Most gun owners are perfectly fine with magazine bans and FTF transfers being outlawed.

Most gun owners - just like most people in general - are not politically active. They only care about issues that affect them personally. The hunter who "can't understand why anybody would want one of those assault rifles" or the cop who thinks that "ordinary citizens don't need 25 round magazines" actually represents the mainstream of gun owners, the ones who AREN'T politically active.

Now of gun owners who ARE politically active, this board is representative of their viewpoints (if not a bit on the conservative side - some hardcore activists are calling for outright revolution.) But the truth is that we are not a majority of gun owners, whether we'd like to think so or not.

The "smart" gun control activists are the ones who are smart enough to know this and to try and split gun owners into factions. They try to mask their gun control push as "gun safety" and of course they have the active cooperation of the news media, academia, the entertainment industry and the higher ranks of law enforcement on their side. They succeed in passing incremental gun control because they convince the majority of non-political gun owners that whatever laws are passed, they won't apply to THEM.

The dumb gun control activists, who are the ones currently frothing at the mouth and screaming gibberish, are the ones who say anybody who owns a gun is a nazi redneck confederate racist homophobe etc etc etc. That just makes reasonable middle-of-the-road gun owners turn the channel and stop paying attention, and their efforts usually come to nothing.

[asmo]

This kid gets it.. Totally gets it..

Ef1kxAplK4Y

[BPTactical]

All over Facebook it's gay people supporting trump


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

This speaks legions. A small but extremely vocal percentage of society.

[hollohas]

Hate to break it to you but the majority of gun owners are not represented by the people on this board or the NRA (and FWIW I am an NRA member.) Most gun owners are perfectly fine with magazine bans and FTF transfers being outlawed.



That's not news to me and furthers my argument that the country doesn't need gun owners' consent to pass anti gun laws. They just need them to stay silent...which most historically do. And that's exactly what I'm advocating...don't stay silent just because their anti gun agenda is illogical and unlikely.

Very happy to see that at least some LGBT folks understand the real enemy and aren't allowing their anger and sadness to misdirect the blame to the right wing and guns. Great to see.

[KS63]

http://www.pinkpistols.org

[ColoradoTJ]

All over Facebook it's gay people supporting trump


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

I agree with you, but the movement happened before this terrorist act.

I work with a lesbian whom I would call a friend, and Jeep with a gay guy. My co-worker calls herself a conservative lesbian or a gay right winger. She used to be very solid democrat, but in the past 4 years she has totally changed. I like to think that maybe some of our discussions help change that.

Sad the right will not back Trump. The people have spoken...and yes he is rough around the edges, but look about what he stands for without putting a persons face to the message.

[buffalobo]

Will LGBT outpace women as the fastest growing demographic in gun ownership?

[ColoradoTJ]

Will LGBT outpace women as the fastest growing demographic in gun ownership?

I wouldn't doubt it. My lesbian right wing co-worker just went out and purchased the family their first weapon 3 weeks ago and plan on a few more.

[KS63]

^^^^The more people buying guns and understanding our side of the debate the better.

[buffalobo]

I wouldn't doubt it. My lesbian right wing co-worker just went out and purchased the family their first weapon 3 weeks ago and plan on a few more.

Unfortunate that tragic events such as this massacre are the catalyst instead of a belief in individual liberty and freedom.

[JohnnyDrama]

I wouldn't doubt it. My lesbian right wing co-worker just went out and purchased the family their first weapon 3 weeks ago and plan on a few more.

I worked with a couple of lesbians several years back. They were lots of fun. We'd go out for drinks after work and talk about trucks, guns, and watch women.

[funkymonkey1111]

I worked with a couple of lesbians several years back. They were lots of fun. We'd go out for drinks after work and talk about trucks, guns, and watch women.

The lesbro

[Zundfolge]

Looks like he may not have been a "lone wolf" afterall


A top law enforcement source told WFTV an arrest, elsewhere in Florida, is expected of an alleged accomplice.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/wftv-arrest-expected-in-orlando-nightclub-mass-shooting/340918422

[hollohas]

Not sure if this potential accomplice was there or if he/she just suproted him, but many of the initial reports and internet chatter coming out immediately following the murders suggested there may have been a second. I kinda figured eye witnesses confused police shooting as a 2nd bad guy shooting.

[Zundfolge]

Not sure if this potential accomplice was there or if he/she just suproted him.

Right. But either way if he didn't act alone he didn't act alone.

[Great-Kazoo]

Right. But either way if he didn't act alone he didn't act alone.

Not that anyone would actually hear about it. The MSM admit a (GASP) second Terrorist was involved. You'd see Obama at the range ripping rounds from a krink, before you'd see that story plastered across the world.

[Irving]

Not sure if this potential accomplice was there or if he/she just suproted him, but many of the initial reports and internet chatter coming out immediately following the murders suggested there may have been a second. I kinda figured eye witnesses confused police shooting as a 2nd bad guy shooting.

EVERY time there is a shooting, there is always internet chatter about a second shooter.

[Irving]

Yeah really, that's when it all started. It's like mass shootings are so fanciful, that people can't accept that just one person can be responsible and they immediately start fantasizing about another shooter, or a team of shooters, or some other BS straight out of a movie.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah really, that's when it all started. It's like mass shootings are so fanciful, that people can't accept that just one person can be responsible and they immediately start fantasizing about another shooter, or a team of shooters, or some other BS straight out of a movie.


There was more than 1 in Berdoo. Until this shakes out, speculation, internet rumors and blatant lies will be spread like a cheap strippers legs.

With that said. If you or anyone else believes these people act alone....... . . . . . . . . ;.

[Gman]

Shocking...CNN gets it wrong...still. History of the modern assault rifle (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/history-of-the-modern-assault-rifle/vp-AAh0cUb)

Did you know the Ruger 10-22 was an "assault rifle"? Yeah, neither did I.

Pretty awesome how they finish the video with a full auto firearm to confuse the masses.

[GilpinGuy]

Man, anyone that thinks news is reported on tv is misguided. It's the same as clickbait. WATCH THE ADVERTISING while we bait you with bad shit that has happened all over the world.

[Joe_K]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160614/f9622ab47965cf30f518ab39ad67da5c.jpg

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

[DavieD55]

I thought Ross on KHOW had a good idea this morning. Preventing him from buying just because he was interviewed by the FBI would be too far...but perhaps the system could send an email to the FBI, "Hey, you interviewed this guy, he's doing a BGC, just a heads-up" that someone could see and decide whether to act on it or not.

An HJC and fbi that is just as corrupt as klinton's email server, an fbi that is just as corrupt as the fast and furious gun running scheme to blame the 2A.

No thanks, that is not a very good idea.

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-in-the-present-crisis-government-is-not-the-solution-to-our-problem-government-is-the-problem-ronald-reagan-360643.jpg

[Great-Kazoo]

Shocking...CNN gets it wrong...still. History of the modern assault rifle (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/history-of-the-modern-assault-rifle/vp-AAh0cUb)

Did you know the Ruger 10-22 was an "assault rifle"? Yeah, neither did I.

Pretty awesome how they finish the video with a full auto firearm to confuse the masses.

The 10/22 was on the 94 AWB list, in a folding stock. Or with any magazine that protruded below the stock. Not excluding any other characteristics to make it look other than stock.

Somewhere I have a gun rag with a list of soon to be banned firearms.

[DavieD55]

This is message that gun rights groups/folks should be pushing. FedGov just demonstrated not only are they unable to keep us safe, but are actually moving the needle in the wrong direction because of PC and Dems advancing their own interests. Is this the time to give up gun rights?

Gov is creating a security vacuum and only pretending they can fill it.

This ^

Problem - Reaction - Solution

[CapLock]

I called gay Muslim right when I seen the duck face lips selfy pic he had taken.

[StagLefty]

Probably a life member of Pink Pistols

[Great-Kazoo]

Probably a life member of Porked Pistols

FIFY

[JohnnyDrama]

The lesbro

That's funny. Is that a thing?

[Great-Kazoo]

That's funny. Is that a thing?

Kind of
. Having a decent gay clientele during my artist tenure. They have numerous labels for straights who they deal with and respect. Just like anybody else.

[RblDiver]

At least one person tried to confront the gunman. http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/14/cbs-marine-combat-veteran-saved-dozens-of-lives-in-orlando-terror-attack/

[Dave_L]

Here's what's going around on FB:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/13432281_10157141986415195_5815261142917214988_n.p ng?oh=15e707e962a7fac4bd68f88262c08c92&oe=57C268A2

I assume they mean support legislation that removes restrictions on people being able to protect themselves. I dont know any law that can physically stop a mad man.

[TFOGGER]

Shooter DID NOT use an AR...it was a Sig MCX...

http://www.youngcons.com/liberal-media-rushed-to-say-orlando-shooter-used-ar-15-he-used-sig-sauer-mcx/


But details don't matter. It was an evil black rifle fully automatic nuclear grenade launcher...

[Skip]

[snip]

The left WILL try to twist this into something else entirely. That's what they do. I can post examples all day long but I'll spare you the insanity.

[snip]

I wasn't and don't disagree, they will try. But look at the twisted logic someone has to believe to get there. Putting myself in the shoes of the average person, yes assault weapons can be really scary because NPR and CNN tell me so. ISIS is even more scary because they don't need assault weapons. Nor would they follow any new laws the Demoturds come up with. So what is real solution?

The people proposing gun control as solution have impeached their credibility by furthering the Islamification of the West. If Clinton was talking a combination of Islam and gun control then there's a real problem for us. She would look reasonable. But she isn't, can't, and won't talk about Islam. It is obvious to even most hardcore Dems why that is and they have accepted that (ends justify means).

Now there's news the terrorist was likely gay himself. Oops. There goes another Liberal narrative about "white" "Christian" "males" and the culture of homophobia (from your Salon link).

Also news the wife helped him with recon and logistics. Oops, there's go the narrative of the "lone wolf" who acted alone against the true teachings of Mohammed.

There was a brief attempt to make the terrorist "crazy" and say "if he only didn't have access to an assault weapon." Yeah, that failed too because his actions were planned and fully consistent with Islamic terror.

[davsel]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4R7Xlt009_c/V1vaIfU56qI/AAAAAAAA9Yw/TM10rrrq28Y5vj0NMJQwrk8yGEcDtmvIgCLcB/s400/CkjVt9UXIAAlrpv.jpg

[William]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160614/f9622ab47965cf30f518ab39ad67da5c.jpg

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi


Waco (Branch Davidian siege)

[newracer]

Shooter DID NOT use an AR...it was a Sig MCX...

http://www.youngcons.com/liberal-media-rushed-to-say-orlando-shooter-used-ar-15-he-used-sig-sauer-mcx/


But details don't matter. It was an evil black rifle fully automatic nuclear grenade launcher...

Probably why they kept saying "AR type rifle" on the news reports.

[OctopusHighball]

Probably why they kept saying "AR type rifle" on the news reports.

Yeah, I'm going to have to side with "AR-15 Type" being accurate. The MCX uppers will work on standard AR lowers. Harping on this one pedantic fact that it wasn't technically an AR-15 is like how we all get riled up over clip vs magazine, it just isn't going to move the needle in our direction and becomes a waste of breath.

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah, I'm going to have to side with "AR-15 Type" being accurate. The MCX uppers will work on standard AR lowers. Harping on this one pedantic fact that it wasn't technically an AR-15 is like how we all get riled up over clip vs magazine, it just isn't going to move the needle in our direction and becomes a waste of breath.

Agreed. Close enough for the average person.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Yeah, I'm going to have to side with "AR-15 Type" being accurate. The MCX uppers will work on standard AR lowers. Harping on this one pedantic fact that it wasn't technically an AR-15 is like how we all get riled up over clip vs magazine, it just isn't going to move the needle in our direction and becomes a waste of breath.

It's almost as pedantic and churlish as "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is ..."

[hurley842002]

Christian and conservative fast food chain Chik fil a opens on Sunday to provide free food and drinks to blood donors of the Orlando tragedy.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/14/chick-fil-a-makes-selfless-gesture-to-supporters-of-orlando-terrorism-victims/amp/?client=safari#

[sellersm]

Jeh Johnson reveals why they don't want any accomplices disclosed: gun control now a matter of homeland security.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-shooting-jeh-johnson-gun-control-is-now-a-matter-of-homeland-security/


Sent from my fat fingers using Tapatalk

[Gman]

Why are liberals such twats? The shooter doesnt represent all Muslims but he represents all gun owners?
Maybe he also represented all Democrats?

[Irving]

Jeh Johnson reveals why they don't want any accomplices disclosed: gun control now a matter of homeland security.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-shooting-jeh-johnson-gun-control-is-now-a-matter-of-homeland-security/


Sent from my fat fingers using Tapatalk

Deep sigh...

Not at you sellersm, at the developing situation.

[Ah Pook]

Total respect and condolences to the friends and families to the victims of this atrocity.

Except for the "your race is shit" this makes sense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S23A46cMlWA

Discuss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S23A46cMlWA

Seems to be fubar. Click on the link.

[Bailey Guns]

It might help this administration a lot to build ties with all Americans in all communities. Not just muslim communities.

And Jeh Johnson can go fuck himself.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The more information that comes out, the more something stinks in Denmark.

[Irving]

The more information that comes out, the more something stinks in Denmark.


Expand.

[Great-Kazoo]

The more information that comes out, the more something stinks in Denmark.


Rotten, It's rotten in denmark.

Either way the .gov is floating something on low tide.

All this crap is doing, is making my rifles worth lots or $$. Person over the house this weekend, offered me $1500 for an AR IF i cover the BG check.

[Bailey Guns]

^^ Hmmm....$7 investment to get $1500 in the pocket. Is that a good deal?

[roberth]

The more information that comes out, the more something stinks in Denmark.


Rotten, It's rotten in denmark.

Either way the .gov is floating something on low tide.

All this crap is doing, is making my rifles worth lots or $$. Person over the house this weekend, offered me $1500 for an AR IF i cover the BG check.

and it applies to more than just this particular event and the event in San Bernadino.

[Great-Kazoo]

^^ Hmmm....$7 investment to get $1500 in the pocket. Is that a good deal?

Who Knows? AR's are about to become the hottest commodity since denver real estate . I feel bad turning people I know down. Hell there's maroon's trying to get $1200 for uppers with an optic (bushnell) on scamslist, BGC not incl.

[Bailey Guns]

You may be able to finance your move, sell a couple rifles.

[Great-Kazoo]

You may be able to finance your move, sell a couple rifles.

It's on the burner. Unfortunately an unexpected incident put everything on hold ..........................Till next year

[roberth]

If peaceable Muslims won’t restrain and discipline violence-inclined Muslims, it will be done for them, possibly by wholesale slaughter.

http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/

[ray1970]

Rotten, It's rotten in denmark.

Either way the .gov is floating something on low tide.

All this crap is doing, is making my rifles worth lots or $$. Person over the house this weekend, offered me $1500 for an AR IF i cover the BG check.

Suddenly all of the rifles and lowers I was sitting on until election time to sell are looking like a pretty good investment.

[Gman]

If peaceable Muslims won’t restrain and discipline violence-inclined Muslims, it will be done for them...
If you've observed history, it's only thing they understand. This isn't a new problem.

[Martinjmpr]

Suddenly all of the rifles and lowers I was sitting on until election time to sell are looking like a pretty good investment.

Well, you're making an assumption that any "new" AWB would look like the "old" AWB, i.e. that currently existing items would be "grandfathered" in with unlimited rights to transfer, buy and sell.

As we saw with the mag ban here in CO, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way - any"new" AW ban could be like our 16+ mag ban, i.e. it would allow current owners to continue to own, but would prohibits transfers unless it's transferred to a LE agency for destruction.

i.e., you can keep your gun, but the gun dies with you and doesn't go to anyone else.

Another possibility is that so-called "assault weapons" are re-classed as NFA items which means they could only be transferred via NFA paperwork. That would drastically limit the number of potential buyers which would drop resale value since so many others would be in the same boat.

If either of the above happens, your currently owned ARs are of little or no value unless you plan to sell them on the black market.

[roberth]

If you've observed history, it's only thing they understand. This isn't a new problem.

You pointed out the problem with every liberal and a ton of right wingers, for whatever reason they do not acknowledge this history. Fortunately for us most of the right wingers are open to education, the liberal is ignorant and prefers to remain that way.

[Dave_L]

Martinjmpr, if that becomes the case, I suspect there to be a lot more criminals in this country.

[hollohas]

Don't worry guys, Trump's heading to the NRA to discuss preventing folks on the watchlist from buying guns.


This may not have been what the NRA had in mind when they endorsed Donald Trump last month in Louisville. “Presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump says he will be meeting with the National Rifle Association to discuss ways to block people on terrorism watch lists or no fly lists from buying guns. Trump announced the meeting via a tweet Wednesday, without providing any details on the time or place.”

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/daniel-zimmerman/trump-meet-nra-re-terrorist-watch-list/

Not only are politicians quick to jump on the watchlist idea again, it looks like the presumptive republican nominee is going to lead the charge by building a bridge to the NRA. Who'd a thunk it?

[Jer]

No fly lists are provided to private entities (airlines) who have made the decision to not allow someone to fly on their airline. Using this list to prevent someone their constitutional rights w/o any sort of legal conviction is a separate topic entirely. The very fact that people think these are interchangeable is exactly why we're not a nation of mob rule.

Democracy is a sheep and two wolves voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a strongly armed sheep disputing the outcome.

[Big E3]

I think any new assault weapon ban will include some form of registering the ones you now have. And likely if transfer is allowed it will require a heavy "fee".

I am willing to turn in all of my AR's as soon as the government can guarantee that no criminal will ever have one to use against me, until then no. Given the history of all things the government has made illegal that still flow freely in this country it will never happen. I always say, if cars were made illegal today it would take a hundred years before they would be mostly all gone. Now try that with something the size of a gun and they will never be gone.

The problem with democrats is that they are some kind of stupid enough to think if guns were made illegal today they would all be gone tomorrow. Welcome to the new prohibition 2016, I'm sure it will work this time, not.

[waxthis]

http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss170/waxthis/guns_zpsu5nrkgu1.jpg

[Jer]

Why in the name Allah are we talking about 'The new AWB' like it's a foregone conclusion? Did I just wake from a coma to find the next revolution is upon us?

"From my cold dead hands..."

[Martinjmpr]

Why in the name Allah are we talking about 'The new AWB' like it's a foregone conclusion? Did I just wake from a coma to find the next revolution is upon us?

"From my cold dead hands..."

I said earlier in this thread that I doubt we'll see one anytime soon. The dems will propose one (I think Harry Reid has already stated he will introduce one) but with both houses in control of the Rs it will go nowhere, even though the media, entertainment industry and the late-night-talk-show idiots will be spitting mad about it.

Now, if Hillary gets elected and has a dem congress, that could change. We are all simply speculating about what might happen. ;)

[Wulf202]

Have they announced how many were shot by the cops during the gun battle?

[Skip]

No fly lists are provided to private entities (airlines) who have made the decision to not allow someone to fly on their airline. Using this list to prevent someone their constitutional rights w/o any sort of legal conviction is a separate topic entirely. The very fact that people think these are interchangeable is exactly why we're not a nation of mob rule.

Democracy is a sheep and two wolves voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a strongly armed sheep disputing the outcome.

The very fact we are discussing this with an administration that has centralized power and weaponized it against Americans is troubling.

The NRA wants due process?

I'm still waiting for due process to hold key IRS personnel accountable. And then there's bit with Hillary's overt treason both in taking money from those with terrorist ties and knowingly distributing classified materials.

Yes, I trust FedGov to never abuse this. :\

And if they don't abuse, like I said pages ago, are Libs okay with 90%+ of the people on that list being brown skinned and likely Muslim? These are the people who scream about profiling and they're building a new tool that is based on profiling.

[BPTactical]

http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss170/waxthis/guns_zpsu5nrkgu1.jpg


Funny you post this. I have an acquaintance from high school who has spent the better part of his "adult" life in sober living facilities due to various drug issues.
Sunday night he goes on a tirade of texts how civilians should not be allowed guns, only LE and MIL should have them.
Says nobody would get killed by guns if they were outlawed yada, yada, yada.

I replied simply with this:

Gee if drugs were outlawed we would have no addicts and nobody would die of OD's.




I've not heard from him since....

[ray1970]

Lol. You're the man, Bert.

[ray1970]

Well, you're making an assumption that any "new" AWB would look like the "old" AWB, i.e. that currently existing items would be "grandfathered" in with unlimited rights to transfer, buy and sell.

As we saw with the mag ban here in CO, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way - any"new" AW ban could be like our 16+ mag ban, i.e. it would allow current owners to continue to own, but would prohibits transfers unless it's transferred to a LE agency for destruction.

i.e., you can keep your gun, but the gun dies with you and doesn't go to anyone else.

Another possibility is that so-called "assault weapons" are re-classed as NFA items which means they could only be transferred via NFA paperwork. That would drastically limit the number of potential buyers which would drop resale value since so many others would be in the same boat.

If either of the above happens, your currently owned ARs are of little or no value unless you plan to sell them on the black market.

I wasn't assuming anything.

I have some things I was going to sell some time around election time anyways. Between the possibility of Hilary getting elected and talks of an "assault weapons" ban, demand and prices should be high.

I wasn't intending to sell them after a ban goes into effect but rather in the panic buying because of the talk of one.

[driver]

I hate to think it will happen, but Im waiting for some POS like pat robertson to say "they deserved it for their sinful lifestyle". now is the time for religious nutbags to shut the hell up. people were killed, people who didnt deserve to be killed. (well except the guy who did the killing)

http://kdvr.com/2016/06/15/pastor-defends-hate-filled-sermon-on-orlando-shootings/

[Gman]

http://kdvr.com/2016/06/15/pastor-defends-hate-filled-sermon-on-orlando-shootings/
I think the speaker's list is going to change for the prayer conference in July.

I can't stand "clergy" that hide behind scripture to back their agenda, while ignoring the scriptures that point out that their agenda is totally off in the weeds.

[speedysst]

You're assuming that happened but dont let that stop you from your attitude.
Have they announced how many were shot by the cops during the gun battle?

[Wulf202]

You're assuming that happened but dont let that stop you from your attitude.
0 is a perfectly acceptable answer...

[osok-308]

Thoughts and prayers going out to the victims of such a terrible tragedy. Luckily, the responding officers took care of business.

[DavieD55]

This was a terrorist attack on US soil. No different from the 9/11 hijackers. Any talk of disarming US citizens borders on treason. Obviously our last line of defense is our firearms. The global war on terror is not over. We have to fight terrorism. Next time it will be a bus load of school children or a hospital.

Borders on treason? No, it IS treason.

[hollohas]

Annnnnnnd, the NRA is coming out saying they are open to a waiting period for anyone on the no fly list, just enough time for the FBI to find reason to block the sale.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/johannes-paulsen/nra-endorses-no-fly-no-buy-gun-sales-delay/

From the NRA...


We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA’s position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the U.S. Senate. Sadly, President Obama and his allies would prefer to play politics with this issue.

And liberal news organizations are running with it full speed.

But, but, but...due process!

Watchlist denials are going to happen boys. Yes, I understand no-fly and terrorist watchlist are different but the public doesn't. The NRA says "no-fly" list but the feds will take this and run, including every list they have. And there will be no "due process" to argue names on the list. And no control of additions to the list.

And Mr GOP, O'Reilly, also announced today people shouldn't be able to buy "heavy weaponry". With many fuds and moderate republicans taking advice from him, that won't be good.

[GilpinGuy]

Next time it will be a bus load of school children or a hospital.

I've wondered why they haven't hit such easy, soft targets such as schools, or even easier, school busses, repeatedly like in "Day of Wrath". The only thing I can think of is that they know that (almost) the entire country would freak the fuck out and demand retaliation, much like 9/11.

Hit a gay bar? Maybe they thought the outrage wouldn't be as bad, but it would be enough that the powers that be would try to disarm us further.

I don't doubt that these bastards think this way. Did they in this case? Who TF knows...

[hurley842002]

http://ktla.com/2016/06/15/san-diego-you-are-next-says-craigslist-post-being-investigated-by-police/

[Joe_K]

What is the general consensus on the 3 hour length of this attack? And the fact that there were LE on scene within minutes of the attack, but it took that long to face shoot this goat abuser?

[mtnrider]

What is the general consensus on the 3 hour length of this attack? And the fact that there were LE on scene within minutes of the attack, but it took that long to face shoot this goat abuser?

Admittedly I haven't studied every detail but I thought I read some where that his phone calls claimed he had the place rigged to blow or bombs etc. That would be my guess on the delayed response? But I am not going to second guess the LE response since I wasn't there and don't know the "real" details.

.

.

[Great-Kazoo]

What is the general consensus on the 3 hour length of this attack? And the fact that there were LE on scene within minutes of the attack, but it took that long to face shoot this goat abuser?

If it was the San Jose PD, i'd say yes. Based on their aggressive stance against the Trump speech terrorist.

[DavieD55]

The very fact we are discussing this with an administration that has centralized power and weaponized it against Americans is troubling.

The NRA wants due process?

I'm still waiting for due process to hold key IRS personnel accountable. And then there's bit with Hillary's overt treason both in taking money from those with terrorist ties and knowingly distributing classified materials.

Yes, I trust FedGov to never abuse this. :\

And if they don't abuse, like I said pages ago, are Libs okay with 90%+ of the people on that list being brown skinned and likely Muslim? These are the people who scream about profiling and they're building a new tool that is based on profiling.


Exactly. I don't care what administration is in power, ultimately it is the "government" weather it be republicans or democrats. It is a mechanism for them to abuse and use as a tool against people who they don't like or people who speak out against their socialist and communist agendas much like they use the IRS, EPA, BLM etc etc as weapons against Americans to either steal their rightfully owned private lands, asstes or whatever it is they are after.

If they really cared about stopping the real bad guys they woudln't be brining droves of islamists into this country unvetted and unchecked while the borders are wide open. They feed off of these kind of attacks in order to leverage more control and power over American citizens.

As feinstein said the other day to the press when 4 gun control bills failed "we missed another opportunity" to ban firearms. People like her look at these terrroist attacks as opportunities to get their way for their agendas, ban this and that or grant themselves more power and control.

[DavieD55]

Annnnnnnd, the NRA is coming out saying they are open to a waiting period for anyone on the no fly list, just enough time for the FBI to find reason to block the sale.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/johannes-paulsen/nra-endorses-no-fly-no-buy-gun-sales-delay/

From the NRA...



And liberal news organizations are running with it full speed.

But, but, but...due process!

Watchlist denials are going to happen boys. Yes, I understand no-fly and terrorist watchlist are different but the public doesn't. The NRA says "no-fly" list but the feds will take this and run, including every list they have. And there will be no "due process" to argue names on the list. And no control of additions to the list.

And Mr GOP, O'Reilly, also announced today people shouldn't be able to buy "heavy weaponry". With many fuds and moderate republicans taking advice from him, that won't be good.

I don't know how anyone could take any advise from O'Reilly or even watch that neo-con hack, but they do.

[roberth]

Exactly. I don't care what administration is in power, ultimately it is the "government" weather it be republicans or democrats. It is a mechanism for them to abuse and use as a tool against people who they don't like or people who speak out against their socialist and communist agendas much like they use the IRS, EPA, BLM etc etc as weapons against Americans to either steal their rightfully owned private lands, asstes or whatever it is they are after.

If they really cared about stopping the real bad guys they woudln't be brining droves of islamists into this country unvetted and unchecked while the borders are wide open. They feed off of these kind of attacks in order to leverage more control and power over American citizens.

As feinstein said the other day to the press when 4 gun control bills failed "we missed another opportunity" to ban firearms. People like her look at these terrroist attacks as opportunities to get their way for their agendas, ban this and that or grant themselves more power and control.

I agree.

[DavieD55]

Does it seem like there are more shootings in the months prior to our elections? [tinhat]

[Skip]

I agree.

Add me.

What's interesting is to look at the massive amount of power Obama has centralized under the Executive. Add in his lawless behavior (using the agencies to write laws, the scandals and lies) and there is no reason to think any future President would be any more accountable. The bar has been lowered.

Now consider the next President may not be Clinton and Dems may not own the White House. Suddenly the law, Due Process, and the Constitution would mean something, but we would have no teeth to enforce any boundaries.

Do people really want to give up the last check-and-balance on FedGov? I know many hard-core Libs do for nefarious reasons but I think a lot of useful idiots types haven't thought this through.

And these are the same people who fear the police in the status quo? [ROFL2]

[Great-Kazoo]

Does it seem like there are more shootings in the months prior to our elections? [tinhat]

Elections AND when ever the mass attacks from Legislatures, "common Sense' gun control groups and the media. .
One does notice the hourly shootings in Chicago ARE NEVER put in the forefront of these "discussions". When it comes to Gun Confiscation

[TFOGGER]

Interesting twist:

http://www.univision.com/univision-news/united-states/orlando-massacre-was-revenge-not-terrorism-says-man-who-claims-he-was-gunmans-lover


Omar Mateen, the Muslim gunman who committed the Pulse nightclub massacre in Orlando, was "100 percent" gay and bore a grudge against Latino men because he felt used by them, according to a man who says he was his lover for two months.“I’ve cried like you have no idea. But the thing that makes me want to tell the truth is that he didn’t do it for terrorism. In my opinion he did it for revenge,” he told Univision Noticias anchor Maria Elena Salinas in an exclusive interview in English and Spanish on Tuesday.
He said Mateen was angry and upset after a man he had sex with later revealed he was infected with the HIV virus.

Probably smoke and mirrors to divert people away from the Jihadi terrorism angle, but interesting nonetheless...

[Irving]

Does it seem like there are more shootings in the months prior to our elections? [tinhat]

No. Are you suggesting that persons are organizing and executing on mass shootings? If so, who, and for what purpose?

[TFOGGER]

No. Are you suggesting that persons are organizing and executing on mass shootings? If so, who, and for what purpose?

The people behind the curtains that wield the real power, to stampede the sheep in the direction they desire.

[Irving]

I can't take conspiracy theories like that seriously at all.

[Delfuego]

No. Are you suggesting that persons are organizing and executing on mass shootings? If so, who, and for what purpose?"Them"! "They" have been doing this for centuries.

[Irving]

There are elections every two years, and the campaigning starts at least a year in advance, so it'd be pretty difficult to have an event that's not reasonably close to an election cycle. If something happens during a quiet time, then the conspiracy easily shifts to the idea that people got killed just to keep things fresh between cycles.

[Great-Kazoo]

There are elections every two years, and the campaigning starts at least a year in advance, so it'd be pretty difficult to have an event that's not reasonably close to an election cycle. If something happens during a quiet time, then the conspiracy easily shifts to the idea that people got killed just to keep things fresh between cycles.

Like the economy, oil prices, PM's ?

[hollohas]

Watchlist denials are going to happen boys. Yes, I understand no-fly and terrorist watchlist are different but the public doesn't. The NRA says "no-fly" list but the feds will take this and run, including every list they have. And there will be no "due process" to argue names on the list. And no control of additions to the list.



http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/robert-farago/breaking-republicans-introduce-no-fly-no-buy-gun-control-measure/

The Dems couldn't make it happen last month, so the GOP is just going to do it themselves...


BREAKING: Republicans To Introduce “No Fly, No Buy” Gun Control MeasureThe House will move next week on an anti-terrorism package that will have a provision to stop terrorists from buying guns, a source who participated in a House GOP conference call on Thursday morning tells NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/house-gop-move-measures-block-terrorists-buying-guns-n601761).

[Dave_L]

So which one of us will be the first to get denied? :(

[roberth]

So which one of us will be the first to get denied? :(

We'll find out soon enough.

[Gman]

Where did my country, and all of the core values that helped build it, go? [Puke]

[Great-Kazoo]

Where did my country, and all of the core values that helped build it, go? [Puke]


We've( Ok I've) become the 60 & Older demographic.

The up side is people here with kids they pass on the correct info. Down side. The opposition breeds faster

[Skip]

Attorneys: Father of Pulse Nightclub Killer Omar Mateen Was FBI Informant

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/03/26/father-pulse-nightclub-killer-omar-mateen-fbi-informant/


Attorneys for Noor Salman, the wife of Pulse nightclub killer Omar Mateen, moved to dismiss the charges or declare a mistrial on Sunday night after the prosecution revealed on Saturday that Mateen’s father, Seddique Mateen, worked as an FBI informant from 2005 through the summer of 2016.

According to defense lawyers, Assistant U.S. Attorney Sara Sweeney sent them an email on Saturday night that revealed Seddique Mateen was a confidential FBI source and is also under investigation for suspicious money transfers to Turkey and Afghanistan, based on documents that were discovered in his home on the day of the nightclub massacre. Noor Salman’s trial had already been in progress for a week when this disclosure was made.

[snip]

Salman’s attorneys also argued that Seddique Mateen used his connections with the FBI to block an investigation into his son in 2013. That investigation was launched after a joint operation between the FBI and the local sheriff’s department received a credible tip that Omar Mateen was planning a terrorist operation. After investigating him, putting him under surveillance, interviewing him twice, and even obtaining a written statement in which Omar Mateen admitted he lied to agents during the interviews, the operation concluded in March 2014 that he was not a threat.

[snip]


Serious question: Is the FBI a terrorist organization?

ETA: More angry the more I think about this... Are they not at minimum an accessory? It's the second high profile mass murder in FL they could have prevented. Were they going for dead Americans?

[sellersm]

Some other FBI 'dots' have been connected. The video of Tucker Carlson linked in the article is interesting:
http://allnewspipeline.com/Seeing_Patterns_By_William_B_Stoecker.php


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[BushMasterBoy]

My opinion is the FBI is basically at the mercy of whatever administration funds it at the time. Don't bite the hand that feeds you and any myth/fable/bible verse,etc. The guy that did the shooting, did so because nobody else there, had a gun and the balls to stop him. This just my opinion and I have been wrong many times.

[Skip]

My opinion is the FBI is basically at the mercy of whatever administration funds it at the time. Don't bite the hand that feeds you and any myth/fable/bible verse,etc. The guy that did the shooting, did so because nobody else there, had a gun and the balls to stop him. This just my opinion and I have been wrong many times.

There are dozens of agents in a nearby field office with guns and badges that could have stopped him. Dozens more that were running his dad and covered up the threat.

Am I supposed to believe the thought process of the noble federal warrior/agent goes like this...

Wow, this guy is bad and is planning to murder Americans
But Barack Hussein Obama wouldn't like me stopping him
And I really like my health, dental, and pension
So I'll sit at home and do nothing and cover up the fact we knew once the bodies cool


If that's the thought process then I really shouldn't post my thoughts on the internet.

[hollohas]

This is just a little TOO much of a coincidence.

.Gov is dirty folks. Filthy.

We KNOW the ATF happily gave guns to bad guys down south. That's a fact.

knowing that, is it really that hard to believe that the FBI is somehow tied up in this?

[Gman]

I lean toward the total ineptitude and inefficiency of a bloated government more than an intentional conspiracy. Conspiracies require organization and planning. The .gov does neither well.

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[davsel]

Waiting to hear how involved the FBI was in and around the Las Vegas shooting - before the shooting.

[roberth]

There are dozens of agents in a nearby field office with guns and badges that could have stopped him. Dozens more that were running his dad and covered up the threat.

Am I supposed to believe the thought process of the noble federal warrior/agent goes like this...

Wow, this guy is bad and is planning to murder Americans
But Barack Hussein Obama wouldn't like me stopping him
And I really like my health, dental, and pension
So I'll sit at home and do nothing and cover up the fact we knew once the bodies cool


If that's the thought process then I really shouldn't post my thoughts on the internet.

Yup, they knew about him. They knew about the Parkland shooter, they knew about the attempted murder of Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer (Jihadwatch), there are probably other events that I am forgetting.

They did nothing to prevent these events and may have helped in the planning of the latter.

The thing is the federal government was designed to serve the citizens, over the years it has been mutated and made us its subjects. We're trying to vote our way out of this but it isn't working very well.

[Skip]

Yup, they knew about him. They knew about the Parkland shooter, they knew about the attempted murder of Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer (Jihadwatch), there are probably other events that I am forgetting.

They did nothing to prevent these events and may have helped in the planning of the latter.

The thing is the federal government was designed to serve the citizens, over the years it has been mutated and made us its subjects. We're trying to vote our way out of this but it isn't working very well.

I think what we're seeing it wasn't just that knew about these people but that they were active threats against the American people. In the Garland TX case they egged the guys on and encouraged them.

I'm angry!

FedGov has clearly been incorporated against us. Forget the law, these people aren't even on the same ethical plane. What are a few lowly sheep that need to get sheared once in a while?

[hollohas]

I lean toward the total ineptitude and inefficiency of a bloated government more than an intentional conspiracy.

Yes, but purposefully ineptitude is easy...any old jackass can do nothing for a purpose.

[Skip]

Thinking about this more this morning...

How many of our local LE bust their ass trying to be at the right place at the right time to save lives? That's damn hard! And once LE is there, they are instantly part of the solution and the needle moves the right direction. This is why the gut reaction is call the cops! (even amongst those who hate LE).

Now here's the FBI getting the right time and right place (in general) pieces correct in several major events. They've got most of the information they need to save lives! They even have the advantage of time! All they had to do is use the existing laws and their LE power. It's illegal to conspire to murder people. All levels of LE can force a mental health eval that leads to involuntary institutionalization (with due process).

If they are incompetent, why are they so heavily involved in these major events? Some level of competency got them through the door. But not a level of competency to actually stop the badness?

WTF?!?

[Skip]

Wife acquitted...

Jury finds Noor Salman not guilty of all charges connected to Pulse nightclub shooting

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2018/03/30/jury-reaches-verdict-trial-noor-salman-widow-pulse-shooter-omar-mateen/472612002/


[snip]

On Wednesday, jurors asked for and were given a copy of Salman's statement to the FBI following husband Omar Mateen's 2016 attack on the gay nightclub that ended in Mateen's fatal shooting by police.

The statement has been a crucial piece of evidence in the case and a major point of contention with questions on whether the 12-page statement Salman signed was fact or fiction.

[snip]

In the early morning hours after the attack, she was questioned by federal authorities and her story changed multiple times, prosecutors said. She finally signed a 12-page statement that outlined her knowledge of Mateen's planning and his idolization of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS.

"I knew when he left the house he was going to Orlando to attack the Pulse nightclub," the statement said. It added that Mateen has been discussing jihad with her for two years.

[snip]

Missing from a lot of today's news is the previous revelation that murderer's father was an FBI informant and some of the courtroom drama asking for mistrial. Apparently the jury didn't trust/believe the FBI on the statement. It's obvious the FBI had a conflict of interest in the case and was right there the day of the mass murder to help her with the statement.

And a reminder about the FBI's "asset" Seddique Mateen...

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-08/9/9/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane02/sub-buzz-30584-1470750880-5.png

https://stream.org/wp-content/uploads/Seddique-Mateen-Hillary-Campaign-rally-900.jpg

[JohnnyDrama]

Wife acquitted...

Jury finds Noor Salman not guilty of all charges connected to Pulse nightclub shooting

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2018/03/30/jury-reaches-verdict-trial-noor-salman-widow-pulse-shooter-omar-mateen/472612002/



Missing from a lot of today's news is the previous revelation that murderer's father was an FBI informant and some of the courtroom drama asking for mistrial. Apparently the jury didn't trust/believe the FBI on the statement. It's obvious the FBI had a conflict of interest in the case and was right there the day of the mass murder to help her with the statement.

And a reminder about the FBI's "asset" Seddique Mateen...

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-08/9/9/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane02/sub-buzz-30584-1470750880-5.png

https://stream.org/wp-content/uploads/Seddique-Mateen-Hillary-Campaign-rally-900.jpg

Drain the swamp!

[CoGirl303]

so she admitted to it and still found not guilty? unbelievable.


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[William]

so she admitted to it and still found not guilty? unbelievable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well a bit more to it than that. There was no video or audio confession. The FBI screwed the pooch on this one and she got caught in the fallout is my read.

[CoGirl303]

Well a bit more to it than that. There was no video or audio confession. The FBI screwed the pooch on this one and she got caught in the fallout is my read.

smh. America's most prestigious LEA reduced to incompetency by 8 years of Odumbshit Administration policy.

J. Edgar Hoover is probably having kittens in heaven right now and bbq'ing them for dinner in Hell. [emoji849]


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[BushMasterBoy]

She has a child to raise alone, now. And the FBI has better things to do.

[Gman]

And the FBI has better things to do.
Like trying to dig up collusion between Trump and Russia.

[Skip]

Well a bit more to it than that. There was no video or audio confession. The FBI screwed the pooch on this one and she got caught in the fallout is my read.

I think the biggest takeaway is the that jury did not did trust the FBI because the FBI had a conflict of interest covering their asset. The jury likely discounted her confession and doubted it's legitimacy because the FBI has incentive to deceive. This is the cost of lawlessness.

The FBI covering up (and it absolutely was a cover up) their relationship with Seddique Mateen impeaches anything they would do/say in that courtroom.

It is highly unlikely that Omar planned and executed the whole thing without his wife knowing and thus being an accomplice. But the FBI's criminal corruption creates reasonable doubt.



Like trying to dig up collusion between Trump and Russia.

Also busy getting close to the next mass murderer but being too incompetent to stop it. Then taking over the investigation and hiding their relationship with the murderer. Staying silent about those facts while groups demand Americans lose civil liberties is hard work too. Quite a united front from just a few bad apples.

[William]

^ agreed. Good thing for jury trials.

[Bailey Guns]

smh. America's most prestigious LEA reduced to incompetency by 8 years of Odumbshit Administration policy.

The FBI has been fuckin' things up long before Obama showed up. Just sayin'.

[CoGirl303]

The FBI has been fuckin' things up long before Obama showed up. Just sayin'.

not to this degree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skip]

not to this degree.



The body counts do seem to be going up.

Either way, it's more overt now IMHO and criminally (intentionally) corrupt in way that we haven't seen it. Previously, only people who were only very motivated to know things knew them. Discussing such things made someone an "anti-gov nut."

Now it's in our faces.

[Bailey Guns]

Waco ring a bell? Ruby Ridge? Oh, wait...those were different because the FBI was doing the shooting there.

[hollohas]

Does anyone honestly believe that an FBI asset just happened to end up on local TV holding pro Hillary signs and in the front row of her campaign events? Most people go their entire lives without ever being on TV. And this random dude does it multiple times? Wonder how many other FBI assets attended her events....

[Mazin]

Check the Shadows on the pic........wait........nvm