View Full Version : Didn't we have a member here who had some work done on his truck...
...got a few miles down Parker Rd and lost a wheel or two?
Same thing nearly happened with me yesterday after buying a new set of tires from a dealership. I always double-check my lugs/bolts whenever I have any service done that requires removing the wheels. Glad I did. Got home and three wheels were perfect, but the fourth all bolts were loose and one was missing. I can only assume it's on C470 somewhere and hope it didn't fly off and hit anyone.
They messed up a couple of weird minor things too so I was a little ticked. But I lost it after the wheel thing. Whole family was in the car.
How pissed should I be?
Stuff happens. When people get hurt is when you should be pissed, and have a lawyer.
Yesterday I was driving I-70 and watched a mounted tire fall off the back of an RV at 75 mph. It bounced across the lanes, through the wide median and across the lanes of opposing traffic. It missed oncoming cars by two seconds. Not something to avoid easily. Could've been real bad.
Stuff happens. When people get hurt is when you should be pissed, and have a lawyer.
Yesterday I was driving I-70 and watched a mounted tire fall off the back of an RV at 75 mph. It bounced across the lanes, through the wide median and across the lanes of opposing traffic. It missed oncoming cars by two seconds. Not something to avoid easily. Could've been real bad.
Glad it missed you and everyone else. My parents took one of those the hood on I-25 about a decade ago. Totaled their Corolla (which was new at the time) but they were okay.
My mind goes what could have happened. It sucks we need lawyers, just check yer damn work!
I would be pissed. Call them out. Who was it?
Stuff happens. When people get hurt is when you should be pissed, and have a lawyer.
I agree with this. There is nothing to be done about what could have happened. Scary to think about, but no traction in real life.
pickenup
07-15-2016, 21:22
I am not the one on Parker Rd. but had a similar occurrence happen to me.
A few years ago, I had the wife take the Bronco down and get two new tires put on the front, the 2 fronts put on the rear. We were in a hurry, and going to Cheyenne that day, and I didn't check the lug nuts. On the way back down I-25, about 10-11 at night doing 75 MPH, I watched as my left front tire rolled into the median. To shorten the story I came home on the spare and 3 lug nuts on each wheel. I had lost that many lug nuts. They had not torqued ANY of the lug nuts.
Next day, after some back and forth "discussion" and talk of lawyers, they agreed to look at it. They admitted it was their fault and put their "best mechanic" on it, to fix it. After driving it for a while, I felt there was "something" wrong and parked it. When I got around to looking at it, their "best mechanic" had put one of the washers on backward. The one that has the tit on it that HAS TO fit into the washer with the holes in it, that goes next to it. Ford truck guys will know what I am talking about. I turned the axle nut in 5 whole turns by hand. So this time I wasn't going to loose just the tire, I would have lost the tire, rotor, brakes and all.
And who was it that preformed such FINE work? PEP BOYS.
And who was it that preformed such FINE work? PEP BOYS.
So what was the slacker's name, Manny, Moe, or Jack?
So what was the slacker's name, Manny, Moe, or Jack?
Javier (per my invoice)
I'm hesitant to name the dealership because as others said "things happen" and no one lost an eye. Other than the say it's a luxury make and the service is spendy so I expect the little things to be right, like torqued bolts.
I did write the GM and hope to hear something back but haven't yet. Something like "we'll make sure we don't do that to customers again" would make me feel a little better.
Fentonite
03-08-2017, 00:45
Today, about 100 miles after an oil change and tire balance/rotation, my truck developed a terrible clunking grinding sound in the front right. Pulled over and the front wheel was missing 3 of the 6 lug nuts, and the remaining 3 were each within a rotation or two of coming off. One of the wheel studs was completely sheared off, and the other five were badly damaged from the wheel flopping around. Grrr. Tightened the wheel, and went back to the shop, pissed off and ready for a fight. They calmly apologized, took the truck into the bay and replaced all the wheel studs and lug nuts. I'm still pissed that their negligence could have been catastrophic, but like has been mentioned above, stuff happens, and at least they did the right thing and didn't give me the run around. They did ask me to come back at 50, 150 and 500 miles to "check the lug nuts", which is stupid and inconvenient enough that I know I won't, and they'll be able to say I didn't comply with recommended safety checks if anything goes wrong. I haven't decided if I'll use them in the future. Yeah, stuff happens, but I can't help but feel like this sloppy work is a reflection of their other work.
This thread reminds me of why I did my best to learn to be as self sufficient as I can be.
Fentonite
03-08-2017, 01:16
This thread reminds me of why I did my best to learn to be as self sufficient as I can be.
Yeah, I typically do >90% of my own oil changes and rotations - cheaper, quicker, and done right. Unfortunately, I'm about 6 weeks out from some spine surgery and can't be doin' that stuff again just yet. Plus, I bought my tires there so they balance and rotate for free.
Yeah, I typically do >90% of my own oil changes and rotations - cheaper, quicker, and done right. Unfortunately, I'm about 6 weeks out from some spine surgery and can't be doin' that stuff again just yet. Plus, I bought my tires there so they balance and rotate for free.
Been there, done that on the spine shit, it's a REAL bitch! What's less of of a bitch is enlisting the right help to exicute or verify the work you need so you don't toss a wheel or worse.
Fentonite
03-08-2017, 01:23
You're absolutely right. I shoulda checked their work, and didn't. Won't happen again.
I've been a mechanic most of my adult life. First on vehicles, now on tractors and heavy equipment. Not torquing lugnuts is just plain laziness. I'm willing to bet that those lugnuts on the loose wheel were damaged along with the wheel studs, and possibly the wheel. If I were you, I'd do a close inspection, and have the dealer replace anything that looks damaged.
I've also seen lugnuts that were overtorqued break off after driving. It's just as bad as not tight enough.
fitterjohn
03-08-2017, 08:53
Having worked in a shop for a few years as a mechanic you should go back and tell them. Any reputable shop owner is going to want to know so he can correct the problem. When I was 19 I left a lugnut loose, lucky my boss caught it before I shipped it, after a "discussion" I never missed one, eventhough I'm in a different trade now it has made be a better tech knowing my mistake. And even now 12 years later he still reminds me of that
Glad you're okay Fentonite!
I've been a mechanic most of my adult life. First on vehicles, now on tractors and heavy equipment. Not torquing lugnuts is just plain laziness. I'm willing to bet that those lugnuts on the loose wheel were damaged along with the wheel studs, and possibly the wheel. If I were you, I'd do a close inspection, and have the dealer replace anything that looks damaged.
I've also seen lugnuts that were overtorqued break off after driving. It's just as bad as not tight enough.
What I don't understand is why a manager isn't checking the work before delivering a vehicle. I get that a wrench turner might miss something, that happens. But put a process in place to catch your mistake...
Were wheels pulled? Manually check the torque with an iron.
Was the oil changed? Pull the dipstick and confirm fresh oil.
New parts? Eyeball them.
This could take a minute on each vehicle and save the shop a lot of liability and lost business.
Glad you're okay Fentonite!
What I don't understand is why a manager isn't checking the work before delivering a vehicle. I get that a wrench turner might miss something, that happens. But put a process in place to catch your mistake...
Were wheels pulled? Manually check the torque with an iron.
Was the oil changed? Pull the dipstick and confirm fresh oil.
New parts? Eyeball them.
This could take a minute on each vehicle and save the shop a lot of liability and lost business.
Takes away from facebook time and flirting with the 17 year old receptionist.
Takes away from facebook time and flirting with the 17 year old receptionist.
Then should be fired so they can dedicate more time to their passions and follow their dreams.
Then should be fired so they can dedicate more time to their passions and follow their dreams.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-20-2015/yoT-qr.gif
...would coach have put them in the big game for State?
BushMasterBoy
03-08-2017, 13:20
I just bought one of these on ebay for $128. No more long trips without it.
69499
I just bought one of these on ebay for $128. No more long trips without it.
69499
Better bring a torque wrench along too. You have no idea how tight the lugnuts are with those. Torque sticks will get fairly close as well, but it depends on the impact wrench used along with them.
Great-Kazoo
03-08-2017, 14:06
Glad you're okay Fentonite!
What I don't understand is why a manager isn't checking the work before delivering a vehicle.
If the manager has to check every item repaired by their tech's, the tech should be fired and the person who hired them as well. The Manager isn't there to babysit the employees.
If the manager has to check every item repaired by their tech's, the tech should be fired and the person who hired them as well. The Manager isn't there to babysit the employees.
Then what does the manager if not inspect and supervise the work of the employees?
Zundfolge
03-08-2017, 15:14
This thread reminds me of why I did my best to learn to be as self sufficient as I can be.
This is why I change my own oil.
bside303
03-08-2017, 16:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOJpElwEmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOJpElwEmE
OUCH!
bside303
03-08-2017, 16:40
OUCH!
i think he just said "zzzzZZzzzz" lol
Wonder how they'd feel if, when they give your keys back, you whipped out a torque wrench right then and there and retorqued all the lug nuts with everybody watching? Give all the other customers something to think about.
Oh, learned my lesson about Jiffy Lube and Grease Monkey type places too. Never again.
I just had my tires rotated. They tried to get me to buy new lug nuts because the stupid sleeves that Dodge puts on them like to fall off. I declined. I'm also not going to check if they torqued correctly.
Great-Kazoo
03-08-2017, 19:36
Then what does the manager if not inspect and supervise the work of the employees?
NOT every single job that goes out the door. If one has to micro manage (which is what your suggesting) the employees, they have no business working there.
One has to trust the level of workmanship they turn out , not stand over them .
You ever manage a repair shop? Between billing, parts ordering, answering phones, delegating work load AND owners or upper management. The only time one gets to eat is road testing or ordering in.
One sure as hell doesn't have time to run a torque wrench over every lug nut, hydrometer every coolant replacement, etc. That tells the tech You as the manager don't have confidence in their level of work. See how long a good front end or transmission guy sticks around doing that.
Reading this really confirms my mindset about people working on my stuff. If I didn't own new vehicles that came with free tire rotations and oil changes they wouldn't see my vehicles in a shop unless it was super specialized. But even then when the dealership rotates my tires or changes my oil, I don't leave the parking lot without verifying lugs are tight, oil is at correct level, and the oil filter was actually changed.
If it's anything more than that I check everything I can or am knowledgeable about or what a quick google search lets me know I should look for.
This has developed over the years from my first car at grease monkey that left a oil filter wrench and slammed my hood down, luckily no damage but I noticed the hood wasn't lining up so I got a free oil wrench out of it.
Then Johnson auto plaza had to do a warranty repair on my 1 year old truck that had a small oil leak from the pan. I came to pick it up, it was sitting outside so I got keys and paperwork, started it up and as I was getting ready to pull out a mechanic runs out yelling he needs to put oil in it still!!!....ahhhhh WTF! So....how did it get out of the shop over to the parking lot? How much damage was done in that short run time and then when I started it to leave? Needless to say I got a smoking deal when I traded it in almost immediately and I don't go back there after that. Now I don't trust any of them.
I just had my tires rotated. They tried to get me to buy new lug nuts because the stupid sleeves that Dodge puts on them like to fall off. I declined. I'm also not going to check if they torqued correctly.
Sleeves get destroyed by the wrong size or a loose wrench. I sort of did that to the Sienna but then found a 21mm wrench at HF that fits perfect.
From my experiance as a boat tech it is surprising how few people do things right. Many times price has nothing to do with quality. This is why I do most of my own car work nowdays. I may be alow at it, but I do it right.
Reading this really confirms my mindset about people working on my stuff. If I didn't own new vehicles that came with free tire rotations and oil changes they wouldn't see my vehicles in a shop unless it was super specialized.
The only reason I have them rotate the tires (it is easier for them to do it than me) is because I don't like the company I bought the tires from and don't trust that they'll ever honor their warranty unless all the rotations are documented. I drive so much that I change the oil and rotate the tires about once a month.
Sleeves get destroyed by the wrong size or a loose wrench.
That was this guy's angle. He said people will round off the sleeves and I don't want that to happen on the side of the road. I've got a tool kit and in my experience they just fall off and then I use a different socket.
Les Schwab. I've decided that I don't like them at all. When they first moved into town, they went on and on about how great they were so they could get a bit of the market share. Now that they're established, I don't like their attitude. It really bothers me that they don't have their tire prices listed online either.
Geeze. I need to put new tires on my JGC, and I'm now I'm more than a wee bit concerned about lazy mechanics.
Think the manager of wherever I decide to buy them would get ticked if I asked him or her to take me back in the garage and show me how to check the tightness of the lug nuts?
If he does, go somewhere else.
When I worked for AAA, broken lug nuts were a common issue. My boss at the time always said that he would ask a tire place up front if they would torque the lugnuts to spec, and if they didn't, he's shop else where. I'd just ask.
DenverGP
03-08-2017, 23:11
My son had his previous shop manager give him shit because he'd run the lugnuts on with an impact set on it's lowest setting, then finish each lug by hand with the torque wrench. Manager didn't like it cause it took him an extra minute or two per vehicle. Shop procedure was just to use impact with torque sticks.
I've had good luck with Discount Tire. They finish tightening the lugs with a torque wrench and I can see them working in the shop from the waiting area.
NOT every single job that goes out the door. If one has to micro manage (which is what your suggesting) the employees, they have no business working there.
One has to trust the level of workmanship they turn out , not stand over them .
You ever manage a repair shop? Between billing, parts ordering, answering phones, delegating work load AND owners or upper management. The only time one gets to eat is road testing or ordering in.
One sure as hell doesn't have time to run a torque wrench over every lug nut, hydrometer every coolant replacement, etc. That tells the tech You as the manager don't have confidence in their level of work. See how long a good front end or transmission guy sticks around doing that.
Insuring every car that goes out is "right" isn't micro managing. Micro managing would be standing over the tech. Based on experiences in this thread is there any reason to have any confidence in their level of work? Say a guy fired from shop A for really messing something up, he has a job at shop B by the end of the week. And everyone knows this (my BIL worked for Toyota and now UPS in their shop).
Checking torque on the lugs would take a manager all of two minutes.
I've worked at places that spend far more time/money reviewing far more trivial things. Imagine a manager reviewing every line of code in a functional build already certified by in-house QA. And yes, that happens all the time because even though it's "right" people with shared accountability want to cover their asses. On the topic of auto work, there appears to be no accountability.
If you go to the dealership I bitched about in the OP, you will find dozens of "associates" and manager types standing around, checking people in, checking them out and handing them their keys. Not one of them will actually lay eyes on the car with plenty of time to do it. Plenty of time to sell me the brake job I don't need (because I just paid the same dealership for that brake job six months ago) but no time to make sure what I'm paying for today was actually done and my family will make it home safe after they pulled my wheels.
fitterjohn
03-09-2017, 10:58
I think bottom line you just need to find a quality shop to have stuff done at. And by quality I mean stay away from dealerships and anything that have more than one location. Quick plug if anyone needs auto work in northern Colorado I recommend genuine automotive(plus 1 for being overly gun friendly). And they did the Kbpi metal shop Jeep this year.
When I worked in the tire/hot rod business, the mechanic was expected to sign off on lug nut torque, and then the manager or assistant manager went out and double checked them, and also signed the completed labor ticket. This was in the 1980s-90s, and a California based company, so they were pretty gunshy of lawsuits, but it was good policy, and saved a lot of trouble. As a manager, I caught a couple of wheels that were not torqued correctly BEFORE they were delivered to the customer.
HoneyBadger
03-09-2017, 13:13
I think bottom line you just need to find a quality shop to have stuff done at.
This.
I don't think I need to check my mechanics' work because I believe that they do 100% quality work. Lately, I've been asking them for technical explanations of things and they will take me into the shop while my car is on the lift and answer all my questions with a smile. Are they more expensive than other shops? About 5-10%. Is it worth it? Yep. Still about 40% cheaper than the stealership. [ROFL1]
fitterjohn
03-09-2017, 14:23
This.
I don't think I need to check my mechanics' work because I believe that they do 100% quality work. Lately, I've been asking them for technical explanations of things and they will take me into the shop while my car is on the lift and answer all my questions with a smile. Are they more expensive than other shops? About 5-10%. Is it worth it? Yep. Still about 40% cheaper than the stealership. [ROFL1]
Sounds like you found a good shop. Funny how good shops are not always the cheapest, almost like you get what you pay for. I never will understand why people spare no expense on toys, but the second(first if no house) most expensive thing they own they want to not take care of or just cheap out on.
I think bottom line you just need to find a quality shop to have stuff done at. And by quality I mean stay away from dealerships and anything that have more than one location. Quick plug if anyone needs auto work in northern Colorado I recommend genuine automotive(plus 1 for being overly gun friendly). And they did the Kbpi metal shop Jeep this year.
I think we're going to be looking for a local non-dealership shop shortly. The car is now well out of warranty and with the depreciation it doesn't make sense to keep paying dealer premiums.
The timing on this thread bump is... timely. We had an appointment to get an oil change at the same dealership over lunch. The hour estimate turned into nearly two hours for them to NOT do the Takata recall and sell about $5,000 of additional service (which is expected for an aging German).
You'll never guess what happened! The advisor got off his ass, walked the whole car with us and explained each line item and why it was recommended including all the checks they did today. It was like they gave a shit. And he seemed like a really nice guy. If I get a survey I'll complement him.
I still torqued the bolts when we got home :)
(They were fine)
This thread reminds me of why I did my best to learn to be as self sufficient as I can be.
On the same note. I'm really getting irritated with "professionals" knowing less than a somewhat well inform lay person. It seems to be happening ever more frequently. A guy at the chain saw shop selling me the wrong plug because he's been doing it for 20 years. Also sold me a shop built chain missing a cutting link. Or Discount tire not putting on directional tires with any thought. Drives me bat shit.
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