View Full Version : Coup in Turkey?
RblDiver
07-15-2016, 14:21
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/15/wow-coup-in-progress-in-turkey/
Supposedly two big bridges have been sealed, military disarming police, video of a jet flying VERY low (like, maybe 100ft) over the city...
Edit: Claims are that social media is down.
Edit 2: Military claims to have taken control from Erdogan. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ Link shows multiple vids, including tanks on the streets of Istanbul.
Lovely.
That foreign policy chickens for HRC/Obama are coming home to roost.
RblDiver
07-15-2016, 14:44
Now reports police are fighting the army in spots.
RblDiver
07-15-2016, 14:53
Statement from the military: "Turkish Armed Forces have completely taken over the administration of the country to reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms, the rule of law and the general security that was damaged. All international agreements are still valid. We hope that all of our good relationships with all countries will continue."
Rule of law, what a concept!
Zundfolge
07-15-2016, 15:05
So this could either be really bad or really good.
"Rule of law, what a concept!"
Sounds good on the surface. For the unwashed among us (me) is this coup a good thing, or not?
So this could either be really bad or really good.
I fail to see how this could be really good. The military buzzing Istanbul with F-16s...
This does not demonstrate stability in any way.
Statement from the military: "Turkish Armed Forces have completely taken over the administration of the country to reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms, the rule of law and the general security that was damaged. All international agreements are still valid. We hope that all of our good relationships with all countries will continue."
Rule of law, what a concept!
The military is pro-Russian/pro-Putin.
The political leadership (Erdogen) are Obama puppets. The people are pissed about the Syrian crisis and pissed that Turkey has been used by the US to arm anti-Assad "militants" who, surprise surprise, are radical jihadists. Some speculate this is how ISIS/ISIL was created.
What Obama does now is critical. Every time Putin steps up Obama backs down. Turkey is a NATO member so he can't just give it up like he did Ukraine.
Voting good. Likely secular military. Crazy erdogan i guess was replacing a lot of mil leaders for better followers of crazy.
Between blackmailing eu or else releasing more rapefugees on them as well as meddling in the conflicts attacking kurds claiming he's fighting terrorists.
The NATO aspect is really interesting. Would NATO be required to intervene in something like this?
The NATO aspect is really interesting. Would NATO be required to intervene in something like this?
This has Putin written all over it..
Zundfolge
07-15-2016, 15:16
I fail to see how this could be really good.
Turkey under Erdogen has been moving more Islamist every day. If the people pulling the coup are indeed secularists that want to push Turkey back in a secular democracy direction this is a good thing.
Voting good. Likely secular military. Crazy erdogan i guess was replacing a lot of mil leaders for better followers of crazy.
Throwing them in jail is what I've read. He also arrested and (allegedly) tortured some journalists last year for asking about the Syrian situation.
Very little of what is really going on in the world makes through the Lib/Dem MSM filter in the US. Obama has seriously jacked up the world.
This has Putin written all over it..
Hell yeah it does.
BushMasterBoy
07-15-2016, 15:33
They even arrested and convicted their own beauty queen for insulting the president. Erdogan will probably end up like Morsi of Egypt.
http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/31/miss-turkey-beauty-queen-given-suspended-jail-sentence-for-insulting-turkish-president-5916353/
Sky New Live feed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
They have had some good info the last few minutes if anyone is interested.
Sky News coverage of reported coup attempt in Turkey (http://video.foxnews.com/v/2554140788001/sky-news-coverage-of-reported-coup-attempt-in-turkey/?#sp=show-clips)
State run TV has been taken off the air. This does not appear to be a limited action by a 'minority military faction'.
ThunderSquirrel
07-15-2016, 15:47
Glad I chose England as my layover instead of Turkey.
British Airways flights bound for Turkey are being diverted to other destinations. A loud explosion was just heard in the capital of Ankara - being reported to be the State run TV building.
http://www.ronpaul.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ron-paul-its-happening-animated.gif
I think this is good. Turkey was turning more Islamic, anything to reverse that is a good thing.
I am reading that Erdogan is seeking asylum in EU. https://www.google.com/search?q=Erdogan+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=erdogan+seeks+asylum
RblDiver
07-15-2016, 16:54
That was weird. They showed a clip of people in the streets ducking (but staying still) as some gunfire broke out. Gunfire stops, they stand almost as one and boo, it starts, they duck back down again (again all as one).
Turkey was turning more Islamic...
...and it appears that the populace want it that way.
Scanker19
07-15-2016, 18:04
Sky News coverage of reported coup attempt in Turkey (http://video.foxnews.com/v/2554140788001/sky-news-coverage-of-reported-coup-attempt-in-turkey/?#sp=show-clips)
State run TV has been taken off the air. This does not appear to be a limited action by a 'minority military faction'.
A county's government is falling apart, but first watch this ad for salad dressing.
RblDiver
07-15-2016, 18:08
Looks like the coup's losing power. One thing I notice, it seems like they took their tanks/etc but for the most part don't seem to be interested in using them. I think they were trying to cow people with a show of force, seems like it's failing to have the intended effect.
Helicopter based gunfire in Ankara, Turkey's capital.
https://twitter.com/throwawayankara/status/754098068212027392
...and it appears that the populace want it that way.
Swell.
whitewalrus
07-15-2016, 18:49
I think the title would be better if it was "Turkey, in coup" with the way a lot of people read the word :)
Turkey has a history of military coups. But just another example of how nuts this world has become.
ThunderSquirrel
07-15-2016, 18:51
Looks like the coup's losing power. One thing I notice, it seems like they took their tanks/etc but for the most part don't seem to be interested in using them. I think they were trying to cow people with a show of force, seems like it's failing to have the intended effect.
I'm guessing that not many of them really want to fire on their fellow countrymen.
A county's government is falling apart, but first watch this ad for salad dressing.
You could always get the Geico ad on YouTube.
I'm guessing that not many of them really want to fire on their fellow countrymen.
It's tough to have a successful coup when you're not as extreme as those you're trying to overthrow.
Too soon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6OT7H8Deko
After some quick education I would certainly consider the coup to be a good thing, too bad it appears to be failing.
It's tough to have a successful coup when you're not as extreme as those you're trying to overthrow.
Very true, and might suggest forgiveness for the 'establishment' Republicans who failed to function as an opposition party and to counter Obamas moves to fundamentally change America. Not sure I want to go the forgivness route myself, yet. But no doubt the fear of a powerful and unchecked leftist media rightly strikes terror in any politician who wants to avoid becoming a target and keep his job. There still are some marginally impartial journalists in America but not one works in the mainstream TV. They are all propagandists working for powerful, invisible entities. Everybody below national is second tier and expendable. There's a reason why Americans have a lower regard for the mainstream media than they do of congress.
HoneyBadger
07-16-2016, 02:22
Helicopter based gunfire in Ankara, Turkey's capital.
https://twitter.com/throwawayankara/status/754098068212027392
I'm guessing that not many of them really want to fire on their fellow countrymen.
Shooting the people whose support your rely on is not a very good strategy.
Chief_of_Scouts
07-16-2016, 04:40
After some quick education I would certainly consider the coup to be a good thing, too bad it appears to be failing.
Failing? Maybe, but there are some conflicting reports. U.S. media seems to be following the usual paths. Progressive media says the coup has failed. Conservative media seems to paint a different picture.
HoneyBadger
07-16-2016, 06:06
Failing? Maybe, but there are some conflicting reports. U.S. media seems to be following the usual paths. Progressive media says the coup has failed. Conservative media seems to paint a different picture.
The coup has most certainly failed. It consisted of a small portion of the military acting without public support. The vast majority of the fatalities are rebels that were executed or killed in skirmishes. Almost 3000 rebels detained. Regardless of the intent, it was poorly executed.
I'd be interested in seeing some of the conservative media outlets that have led you to believe otherwise.
Shooting the people whose support your rely on is not a very good strategy.
Uh they were shooting at a building. Notably the police or Intel hq?
It's sad since this was probably the only shot to avoid turning into the Islamic version of North Korea with crazy dictator
Bailey Guns
07-16-2016, 06:31
Unfortunately, the coup has pretty much failed and Erdogan will stay in power. Erdogan is basically an ayatollah in a suit and without a beard. Turkey, under Erdogan, is becoming a hard-core Islamist state. That is not a good thing.
One other thing I find fascinating about this is in relation to conversations I see here from time to time. Some people have this romantic notion of "revolution" or it's "time to hit the reset button" or whatever, in our country. Well, this is what it looks like if things don't "reset" the way you want them to. Revolution doesn't always work and sometimes things turn out worse for the rebels than they were before. Just because you decide to have a revolution doesn't mean things are going to go your way. There are a lot of folks in Turkey learning that very hard lesson this morning.
HoneyBadger
07-16-2016, 06:43
One other thing I find fascinating about this is in relation to conversations I see here from time to time. Some people have this romantic notion of "revolution" or it's "time to hit the reset button" or whatever, in our country. Well, this is what it looks like if things don't "reset" the way you want them to. Revolution doesn't always work and sometimes things turn out worse for the rebels than they were before. Just because you decide to have a revolution doesn't mean things are going to go your way. There are a lot of folks in Turkey learning that very hard lesson this morning.
Completely valid point, but I think most rational people can only be pushed so far before they are emotionally ready to make drastic sacrifices. In layman's terms, some people would rather die than keep living under their present conditions.
:( Too bad it failed.
The people of Turkey now get the fate they omitted to defend against.
Aloha_Shooter
07-16-2016, 08:40
I don't think the Turkish military are Putin puppets so much as secularists who are against the Islamist BS Erdogan and Obama have thrust on them. Given Obama's stance, the only place they could turn to for support was Putin (somewhat analogous to how Ho Chi Minh turned to the USSR when he couldn't get US support for overthrowing his corrupt government). I think the coup failed in part because in the end they were unwilling to massacre innocents. They want to get rid of Erdogan but have more principles than he does -- that always translates to a difficult fight unless you truly have overwhelming popular support.
It's tough to have a successful coup when you're not as extreme as those you're trying to overthrow.
I don't think the Turkish military are Putin puppets so much as secularists who are against the Islamist BS Erdogan and Obama have thrust on them. Given Obama's stance, the only place they could turn to for support was Putin (somewhat analogous to how Ho Chi Minh turned to the USSR when he couldn't get US support for overthrowing his corrupt government). I think the coup failed in part because in the end they were unwilling to massacre innocents. They want to get rid of Erdogan but have more principles than he does -- that always translates to a difficult fight unless you truly have overwhelming popular support.
I agree with both of you.
Absolute ruthlessness is a requirement and the Turkish military didn't have it in them.
BushMasterBoy
07-16-2016, 10:43
One good sniper could have changed everything.
We were taught from an early age (or used to before education turned into indoctrination) that "democracy" is a good thing. The problem with democracy is when the majority dictates to or oppresses the minority and you end up with 'mob rule'. There are some parallels to be learned from Turkey that apply here in our country.
Zundfolge
07-16-2016, 13:06
I don't think the Turkish people want to live in a western, secular democracy. They want to live in a Sharia state and thus their repudiation of this coup (which could have been their liberation).
Hopefully this means that Turkey will never be admitted in the EU.
Hopefully this means that Turkey will never be admitted in the EU.
The agreement amongst the analysts last night is that Turkey's EU bid is toast. Not gonna' happen.
It's probably just a matter of time before they're pushed out of NATO. They sure as hell don't need any more of our military hardware.
One good sniper could have changed everything.
When is this not the case?
The agreement amongst the analysts last night is that Turkey's EU bid is toast. Not gonna' happen.
It's probably just a matter of time before they're pushed out of NATO. They sure as hell don't need any more of our military hardware.
I hope.
The fear I had last night was Ergodan landing, linking Russia to the coup, and invoking Article 5. All of the options after that point would suck. It would be smarter for NATO/US to covertly attack the military and quickly bring Ergodan back to power just to avoid the negative options/consequences.
BushMasterBoy
07-16-2016, 14:16
The problem is we have nuclear weapons in Turkey. And they shut off the power and curtailed flight operations to the base we store them at. Turkey could seize the weapons!
Zundfolge
07-16-2016, 15:15
I'm only disappointed that I still can't buy a Canik ... had the coup won I might not feel as bad about my dollars going to Turkey. :p
HoneyBadger
07-16-2016, 16:36
The problem is we have nuclear weapons in Turkey. And they shut off the power and curtailed flight operations to the base we store them at. Turkey could seize the weapons!
I really don't think there is anything to worry about in that department. Incirlik houses more than 2000 American Active Duty members (and their families), as well as about 450 Brits and 150 Germans. Those weapons are very well protected. The security team alone could have probably taken on the small detachment of the Turkish military that attempted the coup.
The base was providing its own power and most bases are set up to run critical functions for weeks without external power. If anything, Incirlik is equipped to generate its own power even longer, given the isolated nature of the base. As I said, I don't think there is anything to worry about.
BushMasterBoy
07-16-2016, 17:19
The Turk president had the power shut off to the air base. The Turk president has stopped US Air Force flights from the base. The Turk president is blaming a guy in Pennsylvania for the coup. Turkish F-16's are already capable of delivering B61 nukes because that is the war plan. You actually believe the Incirlik AB can stop the Turkish military from taking the base? The only thing that the US Air Force could do is disable the nukes using explosives. Munitions squadron could do that. Be a big mess, but they could do that. Do you know what SOFA is ? Obviously the "Status Of Forces Agreement" has been violated.
http://fas.org/blogs/security/2015/09/nuclear-insecurity/
HoneyBadger
07-16-2016, 22:00
[facepalm]
At this stage their isn't any risk, due to politics. The Turkish president, I presume, likes breathing air much like most people. It's also what keeps Kim Jong Boob from nuking anyone. Even crazy people like breathing air. Who knew?
It appears to me, as the dust is settling on this, that Erdogan is finding himself in an even stronger position than before. He has been able to continue and now openly purge the government/mil of any who are disloyal. This was controversial but now accepted. The attempted coup tested his support and the people took to the streets to back him up. There are reports of soldiers being tossed from bridges, beaten to death, and beheaded all by civilians.
I don't see Erdogan rocking the boat after this provided there are no foreign interventions.
Zundfolge
07-17-2016, 14:09
It appears to me, as the dust is settling on this, that Erdogan is finding himself in an even stronger position than before. He has been able to continue and now openly purge the government/mil of any who are disloyal. This was controversial but now accepted. The attempted coup tested his support and the people took to the streets to back him up. There are reports of soldiers being tossed from bridges, beaten to death, and beheaded all by civilians.
I don't see Erdogan rocking the boat after this provided there are no foreign interventions.
^This
And I don't see the Obama Administration pushing the issue either (1. Because they have no stones and 2. Because Obama is on Erdogan's side).
Erdogan comes out of this so strong and in such a better position that there's already tons of tin foil hats saying he staged the coup himself just to increase his power.
HoneyBadger
07-17-2016, 14:38
^This
And I don't see the Obama Administration pushing the issue either (1. Because they have no stones and 2. Because Obama is on Erdogan's side).
Erdogan comes out of this so strong and in such a better position that there's already tons of tin foil hats saying he staged the coup himself just to increase his power.
I'd wear that hat. Your 2 points above are very obviously true.
Honey Badger282.8
07-17-2016, 15:33
This whole thing screams false flag to me.
Power Cut Bedevils Base Believed to House U.S. Nukes (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/power-cut-bedevils-base-believed-to-house-us-nukes/ar-BBuyzl9?li=BBnb7Kz)
A Turkish air base widely believed to house U.S. nuclear weapons continued to rely on backup generators Wednesday, five days after a failed coup plunged the country into crisis. (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup)
Commercial power was cut to Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey and the airspace above it closed within hours of Friday's attempted military takeover in the NATO country. Turkish commanders at the site were later arrested (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup/turkey-coup-attempt-commander-u-s-linked-base-among-6-n611081) and led away after they were accused of allowing at least one tanker aircraft to refuel jets involved in the thwarted mutiny (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup/turkey-coup-rebel-f-16s-had-erdogans-jet-sights-reuters-n611376).
As the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan deepens its purge of military and civilian officials (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup/turkey-coup-erdogan-tightens-grip-power-after-failed-putsch-n611496) accused of being involved in the putsch, there were few indications when exactly electricity to Incirlik would be turned back on.
Secretary of State John Kerry said Wednesday that he was confident that power would be restored, and it could happen within a day or so.
No one is locked anywhere on the base, which has about 2,700 Defense Department civilians and military personnel, officials said. But people were not permitted to leave Wednesday for security reasons.
Turkish officials did not respond to requests for comment and information on the power cut. Erdogan told CNN earlier this week that power was shut off at military bases around the country to reduce the risk that conspirators might be able to use them.
On Tuesday, State Department spokesman Mark Toner acknowledged power had been cut to the site — which is used by the U.S. to launch anti-ISIS strikes.
Think they'll try to trade power at the base for the guy living here?
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