View Full Version : Precision Rifle Scopes -what is the basic to start?
I would like to dip my toes into precision shooting, and I am not sure if I want/can do it full bore. I figure I will start with a few guns in my stable and spend the money on ammo and practice. But I know that all my scopes are crap, so a new scope is needed. I read a few articles here and there and if I could spend a bunch of money and get all the features a Vortex HD is what I would probably get. Since the $2.5k is not in my budget I want to figure out what is a basic scope needed to start and not suffer the frustration of crappy equipment. My club has steel out to ~500yrds so that is the max distance for now, but would like to do a precision match too. I want to get a mil/mil scope and learn to dial in for shots. I assume parallax adjustment is needed. Variable power would be nice, but is it required?
I am looking for a little guidance here as the various choices and opinions are overwhelming.
Thank you.
- Establish why you need what you need
- Determine what you WANT.
- Set yourself a budget range, say $200 - $1,000.
- Look at SWFA, Primary Arms, Vortex, Burris, Bushnell and compare similar optics.
- Either buy one that's at the lower end of your budget, OR set aside some dough every month for 6 + months and get something at the high end of your budget.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
What's your budget? I'm a fan of Vortex's line, as they have the uber good lifetime/fully transferrable warranty thing going on. Their lower-level models will definitely fill your needs. Hard to recommend anything without knowing budget.
Delfuego
07-19-2016, 16:11
Budget is needed.
Variable (3-15 or 5-20), First Focal Plane, matching turrets & reticle (mil/mil or moa/moa).
Good rings and base for sure.
These would all be entry level scope for long range matches. You will get almost all the feature and they are reliable and with good tracking and usable reticles.
Burris XTR II
Gen 1 Razor
SWFA HD
Bushnell DMR
Marine24
07-19-2016, 16:16
- Establish why you need what you need
- Determine what you WANT.
- Set yourself a budget range, say $200 - $1,000.
- Look at SWFA, Primary Arms, Vortex, Burris, Bushnell and compare similar optics.
- Either buy one that's at the lower end of your budget, OR set aside some dough every month for 6 + months and get something at the high end of your budget.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Good advice here. You could spend a lot of time and money chasing scopes, but setting a budget is the first step and look for recommendations at the local PRS matches. Most shooters are happy to talk about their scope, likes/dislikes but keep your budget in mind.
I like the 3-15x/3-18X range for distances out to 1000 yards. I prefer mil/mil and FFP.
SWFA or Weaver Tactical's 3-15X scopes are very good and I've used both getting out to 1000 yards on a Savage 10 in 260 Remington.
One to keep an eye on is Athlon. I haven't used one yet, but strongly considering their Midas BTR in 2.5-15x50 for a budget varmint rig
Schmidt or bust!!!!
But Sr. Fuego has lined up some good options for you. You could add a PST, or Bushnell Elite tactical for more entry level options as well.
I've won a couple of matches on SWFA SS FFP scopes, they are good value for dollar.
I'd keep it in the 5-25, 6-24 magnification range. Just because you have it doesn't mean you need to use it, but when you need it, it's there. Find a Vortex PST FFP in the 6-24 mag range and you'll be good to go. If you decide to move up, you can always resell it for close to what you bought if for second hand. They have everything you need, FFP, matching turrets, Paralax adj., Most of us can't run out and drop $3K on a scope on any given day, so we work our way up just as you're planning on.
Check out Athlon as well. Fairly new company, but they're getting pretty good reviews.
Also, you can pick up a first gen Steiner Military 4-16 used for around $1k. Awesome scope for the money. Burris XTR2.is another good choice. I like Vortex as well. I have a Razor 2, and a Viper PST.
I've had good luck with Vortex and Bushnell's made in japan models, they aren't at the highest price. Also I like a high magnification of 20-25. I like to see mirage, some guys don't.
Delfuego
07-19-2016, 22:37
You can almost always see mirage :) I think lower power with better glass wins out. most lower end scopes get real dark above 18x or so.
I dont think the PST can hold a candle to the burris/swfa/razor. Much better scopes and not much more dough.
Do de Doo... Still for sale:
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/151408-Bushnell-Elite-Tactical-XRS-4-5-30x-50mm-FFP-FDE-Horus-H37-Brand-New
The PST is pretty dang close to the standard SWFA SS. The SS HD is much closer to the razor or XTR.
I think price reflects this well too. Just depends what OP wants to spend.
Get a Burris XTRII 4-20 and call it good. Even at 1200 yards, I have not used 20x and you certainly don't need it for 500 yards. The XTRII line is very budget friendly and feature rich with great glass and a forever warranty.
Keep an eye on the classified on snipershide and buy whatever is at the top of your budget. Nobody has ever said, "this scope is too good, I should have bought a cheaper one"
Marine24
07-20-2016, 09:14
www.samplelist.com is another good source for used scopes for every budget
Delfuego
07-20-2016, 09:24
Check this one out.
http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5553-optics-px/14838862-fs-burris-xtrii-5-25x50-scr-mil-reticle-price-drop
Scotty is a friend, local boy and 100% GTG. I just saw he posted this and it will not last long.
Get a Burris XTRII 4-20 and call it good. Even at 1200 yards, I have not used 20x and you certainly don't need it for 500 yards. The XTRII line is very budget friendly and feature rich with great glass and a forever warranty.
That's good advice. I'd add that the rest of the XTRII line are also excellent. Not a bad choice in there.
Another approach would be to start with a $300 Super Sniper fixed power in 16X or 20X. It'll get you started for only a few bucks, and I guarantee you'll always have a use for a second/spare/back-up scope if you take a liking to LR shooting. I have 3 in addition to the high end stuff. One lives on a .22 trainer than I use as a loaner, one sits in a drawer as a hot spare, and the third seems to be missing somewhere. Must have loaned it out...
XC700116
07-20-2016, 15:20
[Flower]
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/157439-FS-Burris-XTR2-4-20-X50-w-G2b-Mill-dot-scope-amp-ARC-M10-rings?p=2002375#post2002375
Thank you for all your suggestions so far but it looks like I miscommunicated my intent here or I am not processing the sugestions right. I am not talking about 1000yard shooting - I am not ready for that challenge yet due to money, time and skills yet. I hope in a few years that becomes a possibility.
I want to build the foundation for those skills required to do long range precission matches. I want to learn to read wind, dial in dope, compensate for air density and temperature, ser up correctly in a shooting position. These are skills that I am fairly sure I lack.
My clubs range tops out below 600yards and has some plates at know distances. Honestly that is probably the only place I will get to shoot for the next year or two. ( I made the choice to trade my match shooting time for taking my kids to the range instead. )
Here is the tl;dr version:
Budget for scope only: $600-700
Maximum range distance: 600 yards
Reticle: mrad, prefer hashmarks to ovals
Turrets: mrad, zero stop desired
Magnification: you tell me
Misc: scope to be resold before buying a proper rig, unless cheap enough to stick on a hunting rifle.
I feel like most of the suggestions so far have been for 1000yard+ capable systems. (Please correct me if I am wrong here)
Is a $1000+ scope the minimum entry level scope needed to learn precision shooting skills?
XC700116
07-20-2016, 17:42
For what you're describing, a fixed 10X SWFA SS will do the job for $300 BUT, you will be upgrading later, and you'll need to go aftermarket in order to get a zero stop (talk to TimK to get them).
The Burris or Bushy in that just under $1K range (used or on sale) is fully capable for both your uses now, and later, no loss of investment beyond the first purchase unless you later decide to upgrade to top tier glass. (these scopes are regularly used in competition by some of the best in the game, so they are more than capable) As for the PST, while I love my vortex scopes, I'd never buy one again when you compare the total package against the Bushnell or Burris, there's no competition. Now their Razor line is a whole other story.
I highly recommend that you save the extra cash and buy something like the Burris or Bushnell and you'll have something that will serve you well long into the future, not just for now.
Just for your reference, so you know where I'm coming from, I own or have owned The Burris (4 of them), Viper PST's (2 of them), SWFA SS, Vortex Razor Gen 1, and now am running a Kahles 624i and planning on getting another one.
Would any of you use any of the suggested scopes on a hunting rifle?
XC700116
07-20-2016, 19:44
Would any of you use any of the suggested scopes on a hunting rifle?
Absolutely, I wouldn't know what to do with myself looking through a regular duplex reticle these days.
Absolutely, I wouldn't know what to do with myself looking through a regular duplex reticle these days.
Same here!
I don't want to change the subject, but I always figured that if I ever decided to hunt in a season other than muzzleloader, that I'd better get a decent scope and start going to matches to learn everything I could before the season opens. I don't know anything about long range/precision shooting so I could be off base, but I'm under the impression that shooting matches would be an excellent way to prepare for hunting.
XC700116
07-20-2016, 21:46
I don't want to change the subject, but I always figured that if I ever decided to hunt in a season other than muzzleloader, that I'd better get a decent scope and start going to matches to learn everything I could before the season opens. I don't know anything about long range/precision shooting so I could be off base, but I'm under the impression that shooting matches would be an excellent way to prepare for hunting.
ABSOLUTELY
Erni - consider a 3-15 SS, if you are willing to go up to 700 dollars: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-15x42-Tactical-Rifle-Scope-P62238.aspx Could also try scouring the sale forums here and snipershide and getting one used.
Irving - I personally wouldn't use a 10x on a hunting rifle; would prefer a variable ffp style scope due to potential for a closer shot, etc. -- but that may be because I have more familiarity with them.
Irving - I personally wouldn't use a 10x on a hunting rifle; would prefer a variable ffp style scope due to potential for a closer shot, etc. -- but that may be because I have more familiarity with them.
Again, not to derail the thread, but it seems that while one could hit their target at very long ranges, whether the shot would be considered ethical with whatever caliber, at whatever range is a different conversation. With that said, seems like a variable is the way to go either way.
Marine24
07-21-2016, 05:34
SWFA SS, Weaver Tactical and Vortex PST's are all good choices and ones I've owned myself.
Never was much for a exposed turret scope on a hunting rifle. Definitely like the mil dot reticle, but I don't do much dialing when hunting. Most shots are within the MPBR of the round and those that are longer, I just hold x mils for whatever range it is.
Maybe I'm too much of a wimp, but my precision scopes are all too heavy for the kind of elk hunting I do. I like a lightweight rig the schlep all over the mountain.
I put an XTRII 2-10 on my new Ruger American Predator in .243Win. Yes I will hunt with it.
I have hunted with both my .243Win and .260Rem Precision rigs with the XTRII 4-20, but more to say I had than my first choice.
Most of the time, a lighter 2-7 or 3-9 is on my hunting rifles. Less weight and capped turrets for deer and elk hunting are a must. Pronghorn, Varmints and hogs, I will hunt with whatever.
Is the capped turrets thing due to potential for knocking turret and "dialing"? Would a locking turret (such as razor II) change that requirement, since it would meet the mechanical onus?
Is the capped turrets thing due to potential for knocking turret and "dialing"? Would a locking turret (such as razor II) change that requirement, since it would meet the mechanical onus? Yes.
The XTRII will very soon be available with an interchangeable turret system, and so you can run capped turrets. When that is out, I am considering changing out the FFII 3-9 on my 338-06 to an XTRII 2-10. With optic I am at 6.8 pounds right now, not sure if I want to go to 7.3 pounds for the mil reticle and better glass though.
Thanks for the input everyone.
I have to figure out if I get a fixed power scope now and start learning, or do I wait to get a better scope and delay learning for a while. Birds, bushes and all that.
(Unless someone is looking to trade some good optics for a Colt NM mkIV ....[emoji477] )
Also, would a 10x SS be too much magnification for a hunting scope?
Also, would a 10x SS be too much magnification for a hunting scope?
Of about 150 head of big game, I have shot exactly one above 10x. The vast majority at 1-3x, maybe 20 from 3-6x and maybe 10 at 7-9x. I have almost blown more shots with too much magnification.
So while I won't categorically say no, not even close to ideal. Fixed 4 or 6, might be okay.
You mentioned a budget of up to 700 dollars. The 3-15 SS accomplishes a major % of your requirements within budget, and brings you up to 1k yard range when you are ready -- and may even keep you company for a few years until you decide to go with something else. Some of the other suggestions probably will do so as well.
I personally would not want to hunt with a 10x fixed.
To be honest, I'm not sure why you are chaining yourself w/ a 600 yard chain, when we live in a state with plenty of LR options. I would advise against getting some hybrid/low-ball scope no one really wants aftermarket as well. You're either planning to sell it or keep it, so get something you want to keep and which is a little easier to sell.
At the end of the day, you can do a LOT with some budget equipment. And really, you could probably do just fine with a 10x SS, but I don't understand the desire to compromise on all counts. A "hunting" scope will not be a good tool for LR precision shooting, but a LR precision style scope will be fine for hunting.
If you really can't go to an XTRII or SuperSniper, here is an option: http://mylucidgear.com/L5riflescope.php
I would actually take that over a PST.
The 10x for hunting was just curiosity. The one time I went elk hunting a 1-4x would have been ideal (looking at you MTAC).
I have an old Ruski 8x 56mm with a German fence post reticle on a back up hunting rifle. A bit much magnification, but even with the crappy glass it has better night resolution than a varix3. Plus the fencepost stands out like magic without ilumination, even when dark.
As for the 600yard limitation, I am being realistic about the next few years. Until my brood is older my range time is limited.
Come out to a match , check out some other rigs. I'm sure any of us would be more than ok with you checking out the difference in scopes. Caution though, coming out to a match will make you rethink what you think you NEED.
There's a certain mystique to 1,000 yard shooting to those who haven't done it. It's not a big deal. Shooting 1K is just like shooting 600 except you put more dope on the scope. Don't let it get in your head. You don't need to master some esoteric set of skills at 600 before you can graduate to 1K. If you were on a 1K range and making hits at 600, you'd just dial up some more elevation and do all the same stuff.
I understand you don't have ready access to 1K and no plans to pursue it for a while. I just want you to understand that 1K is not some magical unicorn that only the select few ever get to see.
Tinelement
07-24-2016, 19:56
To add another factor to the discussion...
What are you guys liking for the reticles in a "basic precision rifle scope"?
Basic cross hairs, mil/moa dots or hash marks, Horus, etc.?
Lots of options just in the reticle department.
So in the $700-$1500 "glass" range, which glass and which reticle?
RonMexico
07-25-2016, 10:24
What would you pay for an almost nib SB 5-20 ultra. Thanks for the help.
What would you pay for an almost nib SB 5-20 ultra. Thanks for the help.
New depending on reticule and option they are between 4100 - 4900 . Fair market value is 3800 - 4600 depending on reticule and options .
Schmidt's hold there value and have gone up in price every year now for 10 plus years .
RonMexico
07-25-2016, 10:59
http://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-pmii-5-20x50-lp-lt-mtc-ct-dt-msr-ffp-1cm-cw-ral8000.aspx
thanks for the help
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