View Full Version : I was a Cruz guy from the beginning...
I was wrong. Screw that guy, he is not helping and his bitterness will lead to Clinton winning. I was hoping he would get on board but I think his political future just got hit by a train.
My only info of the RNC is what I read on here. So what has he done?
I was wrong. Screw that guy, he is not helping and his bitterness will lead to Clinton winning. I was hoping he would get on board but I think his political future just got hit by a train.
Yep, lost respect from me and most of his fellow Texans on the floor.
My only info of the RNC is what I read on here. So what has he done?
Turned into or at least revealed himself as a poor loser. Some may argue a bitter prick!
I think he was trying to set himself up for a future run but he helped Hillary tonight more than Trump tonight. If he was not going to endorse, especially after the arena literally yelled at him telling him to do so, he should have stayed home.
Sorry, this probably should have gone in the RNC thread.
GilpinGuy
07-20-2016, 22:58
My only info of the RNC is what I read on here. So what has he done?
Same here. I had "the news" on earlier for a little while and some people are really pissed.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-20/ted-cruz-booed-refusing-endorse-trump-heidi-cruz-escorted-out-shouts-goldman-sachs
Chris Christie did not mince words for Ted Cruz after the Texas senator refused to endorse Donald Trump on the prime-time convention stage Wednesday night.
“It was an awful, selfish speech by someone who tonight, through the words he said on that stage, showed everybody why he has richly earned the reputation that he has on Capitol Hill,” Christie said to reporters on the floor of the convention.
The New Jersey governor put a formal voice to the many delegates who greeted Cruz’s failure to endorse Trump in his 23-minute speech with widespread boos.
“If you love our country and love your children as much as I know that you do, stand and speak and vote your conscience,” Cruz said. “Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.”
Christie mocked that rhetorical flourish. “I don’t understand how someone can present themselves as a person of integrity and then come into this room tonight and give that cute speech,” he said. “And that was cute.”
Well, it seems that what Cruz said was not incorrect. It's difficult to stand behind Donald Trump, party unity or not.
GilpinGuy
07-21-2016, 00:13
Cruz failed to live up to his pledge to endorse the candidate. Imagine that. A politician lying and not doing what he said he would.
It all comes down to a giant douche or a turd sandwich. I'd rather the turd at least be supported by his like minded droppings than to have a rouge dump think a nasty discharge is the way to go.
Cruz failed to live up to his pledge to endorse the candidate. Imagine that. A politician lying and not doing what he said he would.
If Cruz pledged to endorse, than he should have.
It all comes down to a giant douche or a turd sandwich. I'd rather the turd at least be supported by his like minded droppings than to have a rouge dump think a nasty discharge is the way to go.
I hear what you're saying, but can we really say that Cruz and Trump are like minded?
nogaroheli
07-21-2016, 03:21
Nonsense, Cruz came out and urged people to vote their conscience and for people who would defend their freedoms- and the party leaders and trump camp got him booed for it. Heaven forbid people break away from this GOP failure cult and actually vote for what they believe in and not the least awful of their choices they're presented! Don't you think that if the party is booing him for a call to vote your conscience they're somewhat admitting that a vote for them could violate a persons conscience? The GOP is done and they're just broadcasting it louder every day.
theGinsue
07-21-2016, 05:54
I'll say this about voting one's conscience:
As one prepares to do so, realize that there are just 2 viable candidates who legitimately have a chance of winning this election, Hillary or Trump. There is no 3rd party candidate with any chance of winning. Period.
Now, recognize that whoever wins the general election and becmes our next POTUS will be choosing at least one, likely two, and possibly even 3 Supreme Court Justices. We know this would not go well for America if Hillary gets into office. We can assume it will be better if it's Trump.
Now, what does your conscience say about the choice in front of you? Sometimes one needs to consider all the ramifications of choices.
Great-Kazoo
07-21-2016, 06:11
Just one more reason the R's are done as a political party
It's not an issue of what he said, although he did sign the pledge, it's an issue of WHERE he said it. The convention's main goal is unity and he attempted to sabotage that. I do see the chance it could actually help Trump by making Cruz look like a petty loser, a lot of his supporters are not happy with him.
Bailey Guns
07-21-2016, 06:39
Let us know how your conscience likes President Hillary Clinton.
I'll say this about voting one's conscience:
As one prepares to do so, realize that there are just 2 viable candidates who legitimately have a chance of winning this election, Hillary or Trump. There is no 3rd party candidate with any chance of winning. Period.
Now, recognize that whoever wins the general election and becmes our next POTUS will be choosing at least one, likely two, and possibly even 3 Supreme Court Justices. We know this would not go well for America if Hillary gets into office. We can assume it will be better if it's Trump.
Now, what does your conscience say about the choice in front of you? Sometimes one needs to consider all the ramifications of choices.
This. The reality of the way that our political system works is that you have a choice of one of two candidates. All this moral objection and conscience crap is going to put Hillary into the white house. Every Bernie supporter I see keeps saying they hate Hillary so much, but when asked if they will vote for her their response is always "100% I will". I don't give a damn if a rock is running for president, I'd vote for that rock a million times over if it means that treasonous Hillary wouldn't be president.
Americans have always had an issue with thinking long term.
Bailey Guns
07-21-2016, 07:00
Americans have always had an issue with thinking long term.
I'm starting to understand this comment;
“If you killed Ted Cruz on the floor of the Senate, and the trial was in the Senate, no one would convict you.” — Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
Chris Christie sums it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIs_UTUd0Q
StagLefty
07-21-2016, 07:29
I think Cruz pretty much ended his Republican career last night !
http://youtu.be/JN99jshaQbY
I was wrong. Screw that guy, he is not helping and his bitterness will lead to Clinton winning. I was hoping he would get on board but I think his political future just got hit by a train.
Right there with you. FWIW, none of the women in my life liked him, and they could not tell me why. Guess they were right after all.
I was just in Philadelphia and they had a road to the whitehouse exhibit at the constitution center.
while looking around I had never even really heard about who the losing candidates let alone 3rd party candidates that got a relatively large percentage of the vote. But what you do remember and what really matters is who was elected and that person has 4 years (typically) to be CIC.
So for those wanting to vote your conscience, just remember that it won't matter and you are realistically helping Hillary. We can only hope we have people smart enough to realize this, plug their nose when they vote trump and hope the other side is stupid enough to vote for a third party helping surge trump to victory.
The one thing Democrats seem to understand better than all the other groups is how to split and divide as a tactic to retain power. Cruz hurt the things he claims to love...Truth and the Rule of Law (Constitution) yesterday. The polls say HRC is in the lead and that the House and Senate are leaning Republican. The writing is on the wall and it is terrifying. I am absolutely sick of party politics and I am confidant that the founding fathers would not have been pleased at all with the political landscape, nor where America sits today.
If you love our country and love your children as much as I know that you do, stand and speak and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.
I don't see the issue. He was clearly telling people to vote for Gary Johnson.
while looking around I had never even really heard about who the losing candidates let alone 3rd party candidates that got a relatively large percentage of the vote. But what you do remember and what really matters is who was elected and that person has 4 years (typically) to be CIC.
Then your history is fuzzy.
So for those wanting to vote your conscience, just remember that it won't matter and you are realistically helping Hillary. We can only hope we have people smart enough to realize this, plug their nose when they vote trump and hope the other side is stupid enough to vote for a third party helping surge trump to victory.
All the Dems are saying a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Trump. All the Trump people are saying a vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary. Utter nonsense. While I have no belief that Johnson will will the election, I do believe if we can get him above the 15% mark there is a chance in 4 years. If I vote for either Hillary or Donald it will be the exact same, if not worse, 4 years from now.
Guess his dad's prophesying and general evangelical fundie prot schtick isn't holding up to reality (because it's not in conformity with said reality). The man comes from a nut tree and didn't fall far from the thing...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/14/does-ted-cruz-think-he-s-the-messiah.html
Aside from the blatantly unscriptural aspects of Cruz's beliefs, which I assume he shares with his father (who is most definitely a nut), his views are REALLY EFFING DANGEROUS for anyone who would have power over the US military, etc. The last thing I want is someone who is basically gonna be the Focus on the Family version of Ahmadinejad or similar, thinking they definitely have a role in the End Times and they should start pushing buttons and whatever else of which they find themselves convinced.
Zundfolge
07-21-2016, 08:59
I'll say this about voting one's conscience:
As one prepares to do so, realize that there are just 2 viable candidates who legitimately have a chance of winning this election, Hillary or Trump. There is no 3rd party candidate with any chance of winning. Period.
Well yes and no.
There isn't one election for president, there's 51.
For those of us that live in Colorado, this is a 50/50 state so it's vitally important that we come together here behind Trump and defeat Hillary.
But for those in states like California or Massachusetts where there will never be enough Republican votes to win the state, you might as well lodge a "protest vote" for some third party loser or write in Alfred E Newman or not vote at all (just make sure you vote in all the down ballot races) ... just realize that nobody in the two major parties will pay attention or give a shit so your "protest" will go unheard, but if it makes you feel better than go for it.
While I have no belief that Johnson will will the election, I do believe if we can get him above the 15% mark there is a chance in 4 years. If I vote for either Hillary or Donald it will be the exact same, if not worse, 4 years from now.
This is foolishness. The republic and the constitution will survive Donald. If he's elected it'll not likely "save America" (let alone make it great again), but it will give us time to regroup and come back stronger. But if Hillary wins, there will be no more solutions left "within the system" because the system will become completely and utterly corrupted and the Constitution dead the instant she replaces Scalia (she's already said that Citizens United and Heller are going to be dragged back and reversed, and there goes the 1st and 2nd Amendments, gone forever). At that point the only course of action left to us will be violent revolution. Period. And that's an option we will lose because its going to take a hell of a lot more than III% to win this time and we barely have that.
DireWolf
07-21-2016, 09:15
While I have no belief that Johnson will will the election, I do believe if we can get him above the 15% mark there is a chance in 4 years. If I vote for either Hillary or Donald it will be the exact same, if not worse, 4 years from now.
Lots of assumptions there, and you know the old saying about assumptions.....
For example, the assumption there will be an election in 4 years if that evil bitch is in - lots of ways that can fail to materialize, especially considering the blatant and unhidden treason we're witnessing right out in the open now, heavy pushes to disarm the population, and the current treasonous piece of shit has already suggested suspending presidential elections or removing presidential term limits, on more than one occasion (but even he realizes they dont have the power to pull that off....yet....)
If GJ wants even a rat's chance in hell for either the country or himself, he should not run and should publicly declare support for Trump now as our last hope, which would at least give us some small chance of recovery, and would demonstrate that he cares more about country than himself - giving him a REAL chance in 4 years....if not and he keeps pushing to split the vote (we know know that will end), then he can choke on a dick, as he will have demonstrated that he's just as big a piece of shit as Lyin' Ted and Crackhead Kasich....
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Then your history is fuzzy.
All the Dems are saying a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Trump. All the Trump people are saying a vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary. Utter nonsense. While I have no belief that Johnson will will the election, I do believe if we can get him above the 15% mark there is a chance in 4 years. If I vote for either Hillary or Donald it will be the exact same, if not worse, 4 years from now.
You may want to brush up on your fuzzy history - 1992 specifically.
I felt the same then, as you seem to now, and I voted for Ross Perot. He ended up above your mark of 15% of the popular vote, and thus began the Clinton years.
The third party "conscience" gave the election to the Democrats in 1992, and it will repeat the same now.
Perhaps one day we will have a viable third party to vote for. Perhaps if Trump wins this year, the GOP elites will take their ball and branch off a third party for the next election. However, this election is only between the two parties, and it is the most important election in decades.
If you do not want Hillary to win, the only vote that will help is a vote for Trump.
This is foolishness. The republic and the constitution will survive Donald. If he's elected it'll not likely "save America" (let alone make it great again), but it will give us time to regroup and come back stronger. But if Hillary wins, there will be no more solutions left "within the system" because the system will become completely and utterly corrupted and the Constitution dead the instant she replaces Scalia (she's already said that Citizens United and Heller are going to be dragged back and reversed, and there goes the 1st and 2nd Amendments, gone forever). At that point the only course of action left to us will be violent revolution. Period. And that's an option we will lose because its going to take a hell of a lot more than III% to win this time and we barely have that.
The Republic, in some horrible disfigured form, will survive either. Whether its time to press the big red Jefferson button now vs. later (vs. ever) is beside the point. What is more telling is that you (and others) actually see a difference between Hillary (Dems in general) and Donald (Right in general) - there isn't. Both want to control you via some twisted morality play, and neither want you to have actual freedom. Look I don't want anyone in my wallet or my bedroom, or my body and anymore there is only one party that supports that.
RblDiver
07-21-2016, 09:25
Apparently Trumpets think that "vote your conscience" is a dig at Donald. So....voting for him is voting against your conscience eh?
And imagine that, attacking a man's wife for her looks, attacking his father claiming he was involved in an assassination, and by the way declaring the pledge null and void oneself....yeah, that should TOTALLY be ignored, right?
(Oh, and by the way, Trump said he saw the speech beforehand and had no problem with it.)
Apparently Trumpets think that "vote your conscience" is a dig at Donald. So....voting for him is voting against your conscience eh?
And imagine that, attacking a man's wife for her looks, attacking his father claiming he was involved in an assassination, and by the way declaring the pledge null and void oneself....yeah, that should TOTALLY be ignored, right?
(Oh, and by the way, Trump said he saw the speech beforehand and had no problem with it.)
As stated earlier, it was not what he said, but what he failed to say, and where he was saying it that mattered.
Trump did see the speech, and then let Ted have all the rope he wanted. Another well played move I'd say.
RblDiver
07-21-2016, 09:33
http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2016/07/21/dust-remains-unsettled-watch-ted-cruz-list-reasons-he-wont-be-trumps-servile-puppy-dog/
"What does it say when you stand up and say 'Vote your conscience' and rabid supporters of our nominee begin screaming 'What a horrible thing to say!' If we can't make the case to the American people that voting for our party's nominee is consistent with voting your conscience, is consistent with defending freedom and being faithful to the Constitution, then we are not going to win and we don't deserve to win. THAT's how you win elections."
"I will tell you when I stood on that debate stage...I raised my hand...with full intention of [supporting the nominee.] I'll tell you the day that pledge was abrogated...the day this became personal...I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father. And that pledge was not a blanket commitment that if you go and slander and attack Heidi that I'm nonetheless going to come like a servile puppy dog and say 'Thank you very much for maligning my wife and maligning my father.'"
http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2016/07/21/dust-remains-unsettled-watch-ted-cruz-list-reasons-he-wont-be-trumps-servile-puppy-dog/
"What does it say when you stand up and say 'Vote your conscience' and rabid supporters of our nominee begin screaming 'What a horrible thing to say!' If we can't make the case to the American people that voting for our party's nominee is consistent with voting your conscience, is consistent with defending freedom and being faithful to the Constitution, then we are not going to win and we don't deserve to win. THAT's how you win elections."
"I will tell you when I stood on that debate stage...I raised my hand...with full intention of [supporting the nominee.] I'll tell you the day that pledge was abrogated...the day this became personal...I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father. And that pledge was not a blanket commitment that if you go and slander and attack Heidi that I'm nonetheless going to come like a servile puppy dog and say 'Thank you very much for maligning my wife and maligning my father.'"
Yep, Cruz is a whiny little bitch who does not know when to just shut up.
Kinda fun to watch him twitch though.
You may want to brush up on your fuzzy history - 1992 specifically.
I felt the same then, as you seem to now, and I voted for Ross Perot. He ended up above your mark of 15% of the popular vote, and thus began the Clinton years.
The third party "conscience" gave the election to the Democrats in 1992, and it will repeat the same now.
Ross Perot dropped out of the election prior to the vote (yes he 'rejoined' 15 days before the election under major legal threats from his supporters, but the die was cast at that point and he knew it). Beyond that Ross ran as part of the 'Independent' non-party, making any votes for him essentially null and void when it came to allowing future persons to have access to federal campaign funds. He was only on the ballots because of the draft votes earlier in the year. Ross Perot gave us Clinton - Just like Donald Trump will give us another Clinton. Its the same play over again, just with a slightly different plot twist.
Perhaps one day we will have a viable third party to vote for. Perhaps if Trump wins this year, the GOP elites will take their ball and branch off a third party for the next election. However, this election is only between the two parties, and it is the most important election in decades.
If you do not want Hillary to win, the only vote that will help is a vote for Trump.
Every 4 years its the "the most important election in decades". Its bullshit. Voting between a Douche vs. Turd Sandwich will always get you something that you don't want to eat.
Hillary is going to win no matter what. You might as well brace for it and prep for the next election.
DireWolf
07-21-2016, 09:54
http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2016/07/21/dust-remains-unsettled-watch-ted-cruz-list-reasons-he-wont-be-trumps-servile-puppy-dog/
"What does it say when you stand up and say 'Vote your conscience' and rabid supporters of our nominee begin screaming 'What a horrible thing to say!' If we can't make the case to the American people that voting for our party's nominee is consistent with voting your conscience, is consistent with defending freedom and being faithful to the Constitution, then we are not going to win and we don't deserve to win. THAT's how you win elections."
I believe the main issue is the ambiguity of the statement, and the fact that only a relatively small amount of dillution would be required to hand the election to satan's bride....
"Voting your conscience" can just mean too many things to too many people, and there's no friggin way that fact is lost on these douchebags....e.g. -dont like rude new-yorkers, vote someone else....upset because he said something mean or hurt someones feelers, vote someone else, etc., etc., ad-infinitum....
too many people are too damn thin skinned and get offended over the most trivial things, and completely loose sight of what's actually important, and I see it happen all the time in pretty much every situation and setting...some will express that offence, some will hide it, but the fact remains that in many cases people don't realize that they're cutting off their nose to spite their face, all because they got hurt feelers or didn't like HOW something was said so they completely loose the actual message behind the words....
Some of the most effective generals, leaders, businessmen, etc. in history have been rude, crude, batshit insane, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that they genuinely cared for the outcomes and adhered to core principles (and people are allowed to change their minds over time, and its not always cause for suspicion), got the job done and didn't give two shits about winning a popularity contest and being crowned prom king......
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speedysst
07-21-2016, 11:27
While the Republic will survive up to 8 years of Hillary, can it survive the 30-40 years of up to 5 SCOTUS picks by Hillary?
The Republic, in some horrible disfigured form, will survive either. Whether its time to press the big red Jefferson button now vs. later (vs. ever) is beside the point. What is more telling is that you (and others) actually see a difference between Hillary (Dems in general) and Donald (Right in general) - there isn't. Both want to control you via some twisted morality play, and neither want you to have actual freedom. Look I don't want anyone in my wallet or my bedroom, or my body and anymore there is only one party that supports that.
While the Republic will survive up to 8 years of Hillary, can it survive the 30-40 years of up to 5 SCOTUS picks by Hillary?
Fact. I believe the collective judges have more power than anyone in this country by far.
Saw it live. LIVE!!!
Taken out of context/timing I thought it was an excellent speech. Cruz didn't just lay out Conservative beliefs/values but demonstrated how they can solve the problems the Left has created. I still think Cruz is a good guy.
For those who expected an endorsement, I think there is too much bad blood and that's actually okay. I think contention is good (contrary to popular belief) because we get better leadership. These conventions lately (Dem more than GOP) have just been a rubber stamp. Historically, they were very rowdy events.
What I think the rift highlights is that Trump really is a third party under the banner of the GOP (which is what many want). If he wins it's going to be interesting. He'll have to survive attacks from the Left and his own party.
ETA: And I don't think we're voting ourselves out of this mess (too late), so I might be viewing this differently.
IMO, the Republic is dead and a mask wearing oligarchy rules in its place. Think about it... no checks and balances, no rule of law, and the constitution is, at this point, a thing no one in "power" seems to actually care about.
IMO, the Republic is dead and a mask wearing oligarchy rules in its place. Think about it... no checks and balances, no rule of law, and the constitution is, at this point, a thing no one in "power" seems to actually care about.
No doubt [Beer]
Zundfolge
07-21-2016, 12:54
Taken out of context/timing I thought it was an excellent speech. Cruz didn't just lay out Conservative beliefs/values but demonstrated how they can solve the problems the Left has created. I still think Cruz is a good guy.
The speech, in and of itself even in context doesn't really bother me. I think a lot of the reaction to it has been over-reaction (especially by the Cruz haters) ... but then today Cruz doubles down on it and comes off as a spiteful and small man (which if Trump were in his shoes he'd do the same thing ... I still don't like Trump, but I'll vote for him). Which is a shame because while I still think Cruz is a great mind I no longer really think of him as a "good guy".
The speech, in and of itself even in context doesn't really bother me. I think a lot of the reaction to it has been over-reaction (especially by the Cruz haters) ... but then today Cruz doubles down on it and comes off as a spiteful and small man (which if Trump were in his shoes he'd do the same thing ... I still don't like Trump, but I'll vote for him). Which is a shame because while I still think Cruz is a great mind I no longer really think of him as a "good guy".
Well said
hollohas
07-21-2016, 13:31
Does anyone actually base their vote on endorsements from other politicians? I hope not...
Does anyone actually think that a non-endorsement from Cruz equals fewer votes for Trump?
Cruz says he told Trump he wasn't going to endorse him. And Trump still let him speak. If that's true, this was all planned. Based on the reactions of previous Cruz supporters here and Cruz supporters on the floor of the convention, it appears that Cruz's non endorsement actually solidified support for Trump.
He very likely just helped Trump. And everyone is in a huff. Weird.
Cruz says he told Trump he wasn't going to endorse him. And Trump still let him speak. If that's true, this was all planned. Based on the reactions of previous Cruz supporters here and Cruz supporters on the floor of the convention, it appears that Cruz's non endorsement actually solidified support for Trump.
He very likely just helped Trump. And everyone is in a huff. Weird.
Yeah it appeared as this may be. Trump was pretty hostile and petty during the debates.
Read this and makes sense;
Ted Cruz defiant after RNC speech: ‘I’m not supporting people who attack my wife’ (http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2016/07/21/morning-after-cruz-adamant-about-trump-im-not-supporting-people-who-attack-my/)
I agree with Cruz, man stood his by his convictions. Why I like him, rather have him than Trump, but that is not reality now.
I like this quote from him; "And to those listening, please, don't stay home in November," Cruz said. "Stand and speak, and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution."
Yeah it appeared as this may be. Trump was pretty hostile and petty during the debates.
Read this and makes sense;
Ted Cruz defiant after RNC speech: ‘I’m not supporting people who attack my wife’ (http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2016/07/21/morning-after-cruz-adamant-about-trump-im-not-supporting-people-who-attack-my/)
I agree with Cruz, man stood his by his convictions. Why I like him, rather have him than Trump, but that is not reality now.
I like this quote from him; "And to those listening, please, don't stay home in November," Cruz said. "Stand and speak, and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution."
This is my stance.
Bailey Guns
07-21-2016, 14:38
I was a strong Cruz supporter. I voted for him in the primary. I'd rather he was nominated and this whole thing never happened. Having said that, what bothers me most, not only with him but many others in the GOP, is the fact they're completely discounting the will of the voters.
Trump comes off as a loud-mouthed bully, heavy-handed, etc. I get that. What I also get is he was the OVERWHELMING choice of the people. So, in my opinion, Cruz and the rest of the GOP need to STFU, support the candidate the people chose, and together get on with the process of making sure HRC doesn't get elected. If the party doesn't like it that Trump was nominated, too bad. Learn from your mistakes, correct them, and figure out how to win with the people next time.
But for now stop whining and acting like a bunch of spoiled children.
Zundfolge
07-21-2016, 14:41
I was a strong Cruz supporter. I voted for him in the primary. I'd rather he was nominated and this whole thing never happened. Having said that, what bothers me most, not only with him but many others in the GOP, is the fact they're completely discounting the will of the voters.
Trump comes off as a loud-mouthed bully, heavy-handed, etc. I get that. What I also get is he was the OVERWHELMING choice of the people. So, in my opinion, Cruz and the rest of the GOP need to STFU, support the candidate the people chose, and together get on with the process of making sure HRC doesn't get elected. If the party doesn't like it that Trump was nominated, too bad. Learn from your mistakes, correct them, and figure out how to win with the people next time.
But for now stop whining and acting like a bunch of spoiled children.
Kinda wish we had a simple "upvote/downvote" system here so I could just upvote your post without having to quote your post and add a bit of clutter to the thread just to add a basic "thumbs up" response.
[Awesom]
hollohas
07-21-2016, 14:42
Yup, that speech is valid and accurate. Most of us have been pleading with others NOT to stay home just because Trump isn't perfect. Urging folks to get out and vote is sound advice.
I'll vote my convictions and those are to do everything possible to never let liberal America destroying trash win.
Bailey Guns
07-21-2016, 14:42
I'll tell ya who's playing it smart thru this convention... Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich. If Trump is elected look for AG Giuliani and maybe SoS Gingrich. Early predictions...
Aloha_Shooter
07-21-2016, 15:21
Cruz was still the better candidate. He should have ended his speech with what Gingrich said to "interpret" his words about upholding the Constitution -- there are only 2 viable candidates for the office and of those 2, Trump is the more likely to uphold the Constitution. The idiots who keep pushing Gary Johnson are the ones who are going to give this election to Hillary and they are the ones we will have to thank for the turd sandwich of her administration AND her Supreme Court picks if she gets it.
If you can't see the difference between Hillary and anyone else (no matter how liberal) in the GOP right now, you need to lay off the shrooms. It's not light you're seeing.
RblDiver
07-21-2016, 16:19
You know, people make a lot out of "Hillary's Supreme Court picks."
Do remember, the Senate has to approve them.
That's why I don't necessarily care at this point which of the two fools gets in, but I'm focused on the downballot.
Zundfolge
07-21-2016, 16:24
Do remember, the Senate has to approve them.
And you trust Mitch McConnell to stonewall for 4-8 years?
Mitch McConnell will sign off on any communist Hillary chooses.
Isn't Gary Johnson an open borders guy and didn't he pick a communist for a running mate?
I'll tell ya who's playing it smart thru this convention... Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrich. If Trump is elected look for AG Giuliani and maybe SoS Gingrich. Early predictions...
I think Christie is more likely to get the nod for AG. Just my 2 cents.
The speech, in and of itself even in context doesn't really bother me. I think a lot of the reaction to it has been over-reaction (especially by the Cruz haters) ... but then today Cruz doubles down on it and comes off as a spiteful and small man (which if Trump were in his shoes he'd do the same thing ... I still don't like Trump, but I'll vote for him). Which is a shame because while I still think Cruz is a great mind I no longer really think of him as a "good guy".
It's politics and it can get nasty even between good people. Even outside of politics I see people fight over how to solve a problem all the time. Both of those people care about solving the problem (their hearts are in the right place) they just can't see eye-to-eye.
If lyin' Ted had won, I wonder if Trump would endorse?
Zundfolge
07-21-2016, 18:11
If lyin' Ted had won, I wonder if Trump would endorse?
God no ... in fact I guarantee that had Trump lost fair and square to anybody, he'd still have run independent/third party.
God no ... in fact I guarantee that had Trump lost fair and square to anybody, he'd still have run independent/third party.
Splitting the vote, which would far be worse than just refusing to endorse.
So...
Cruz > Trump ?
I keed, I keed.
hollohas
07-21-2016, 18:51
I don't understand all the hubub. The guy gave a decent speech and the next day explained why he didn't endorse Trump. Nothing wrong with not endorsing someone who was a dick to your wife. Now people far and wide are saying Cruz is a disgrace, that they're ashamed they ever supported him, that he's not a true Christian, that his political career is over. Seruously, what's the big deal?
He didn't hurt Trump. He didn't help Hillary. He didn't bad mouth anyone. He had the honesty to tell Trump he wasn't going to endorse. He spoke his mind, encouraged republicans to vote. So what he doesn't like Trump. Why in the world does anyone in this country care if he likes Trump? It truly matters nothing. But damn, people are foaming at the mouth over this.
The only thing Cruz did was make a whole bunch of people lose their minds over an insignificant issue. And that's not his fault, it's ours.
We all need to refocus on whats important...and it's not Ted Cruz's November ballot.
Seruously, what's the big deal?
He signed a pledge to support the Republican candidate. If his word is negotiable, then he's not worth much at all.
Trump was a dick to attack Cruz's wife and father. I don't blame Cruz for refusing to overlook that. However, I believe he should have just been the bigger man and turned down the offer to speak at the convention. I also believe the speech helped Trump's run.
DireWolf
07-21-2016, 19:24
Trump was a dick to attack Cruz's wife and father. I don't blame Cruz for refusing to overlook that. However, I believe he should have just been the bigger man and turned down the offer to speak at the convention.
I believe this course of action would have been totally acceptable by all and viewed as the correct response...
Sanders concedes, throws support behind Clinton and is blasted.
Cruz stands his ground and does not support Trump. He gets blasted.
Yep politics.
What is this "pledge"? If an opponent attacks my wife and family...fawk'em. There are lines you don't cross. I'd see having Christie pissed at you as a badge of honor.
That said, I am not a fan of any of the five people above. I also know one side can do a lot more damage than the other.
hollohas
07-21-2016, 20:07
He signed a pledge to support the Republican candidate. If his word is negotiable, then he's not worth much at all.
And then he publicly retracted that after the personal attacks. Who said it was unconditional?
There are actual issues out there to get worked up about. The "pledge" is not one.
For the record, I take back that I said Cruz should have kept his word about the endorsement. I didn't know about all the stuff about his wife and father.
DireWolf
07-21-2016, 20:17
For the record, I take back that I said Cruz should have kept his word about the endorsement. I didn't know about all the stuff about his wife and father.
I hadn't been aware of that either, but still believe he should have just taken the high road and declined to speak at the event....
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
TEAMRICO
07-21-2016, 20:19
None of that matters anymore, it is VOTE FOR TRUMP or ALL OTHER VOTES GO TO HILLARY.
There is no fighting anymore. Time to vote.
Bicker about this if you want, Ted is yesterday's news.
Trump won fair and square, he is the choice of the people. I DONT GIVE TWO FLYING FU CKs about who the Republican Establishment wants as my next President.
If you are worried about a President Trump please PLEASE watch the DNC Convention all next week to see your future.
You back TRUMP or you don't. Simple as that now.
Thats all I'm gonna say about that.
Rant off.
spqrzilla
07-21-2016, 20:26
He signed a pledge to support the Republican candidate. If his word is negotiable, then he's not worth much at all.
A pledge that Trump renounced in March.
None of that matters anymore, it is VOTE FOR TRUMP or ALL OTHER VOTES GO TO HILLARY.
Strong assertion. Got any facts to back that up?
If you read the left social media they say any vote not for Hillary is an automatic vote for Trump.
Both can't be true.
GilpinGuy
07-21-2016, 20:45
A pledge that Trump renounced in March.
But a pledge he never renounced himself.
What if you just don't vote for Trump, then who is that a vote for?
Great-Kazoo
07-21-2016, 22:08
What if you just don't vote for Trump, then who is that a vote for?
No one. Not checking a box, has no count for a party.
Great-Kazoo
07-21-2016, 22:09
For the record, I take back that I said Cruz should have kept his word about the endorsement. I didn't know about all the stuff about his wife and father.
I hadn't been aware of that either, but still believe he should have just taken the high road and declined to speak at the event....
Lo
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Guys, really ? I'm not a political junkie, or follower of the debates. However it was newsworthy, at the time.
Ross Perot dropped out of the election prior to the vote (yes he 'rejoined' 15 days before the election under major legal threats from his supporters, but the die was cast at that point and he knew it). Beyond that Ross ran as part of the 'Independent' non-party, making any votes for him essentially null and void when it came to allowing future persons to have access to federal campaign funds. He was only on the ballots because of the draft votes earlier in the year. Ross Perot gave us Clinton - Just like Donald Trump will give us another Clinton. Its the same play over again, just with a slightly different plot twist.
Every 4 years its the "the most important election in decades". Its bullshit. Voting between a Douche vs. Turd Sandwich will always get you something that you don't want to eat.
Hillary is going to win no matter what. You might as well brace for it and prep for the next election.
Sorry, the way I rememeber it is Ross Perot jumped back in when Bush started rising in the polls.
No one. Not checking a box, has no count for a party.
It's not what Irving asked. He asked if you just don't vote for Trump, not if you didn't vote.
It's simply a question of omission. If one omits to vote for trump, they empower another voter who is voting Clinton. In effect, the popular vote comes down to whomever had a scant percentage of more votes. The majority of people are nullifying the other candidate's votes. The rub for non-voters is that if you have enough of them who would have otherwise voted for candidate A, Candidate B benefits by the omission. Any vote for a 3rd party candidate is effectively a self-nullifying vote which only benefits the "winner".
God no ... in fact I guarantee that had Trump lost fair and square to anybody, he'd still have run independent/third party.
But he didn't and now its on TC to man up, but instead he turned into a bitter politician and sold out on the main goal here. HC must not win and he is surrendering to her or at least refusing to fight.
It's simply a question of omission. If one omits to vote for trump, they empower another voter who is voting Clinton. In effect, the popular vote comes down to whomever had a scant percentage of more votes. The majority of people are nullifying the other candidate's votes. The rub for non-voters is that if you have enough of them who would have otherwise voted for candidate A, Candidate B benefits by the omission. Any vote for a 3rd party candidate is effectively a self-nullifying vote which only benefits the "winner".
False dichotomy. Also, the definition of "win" is not universally defined and agreed to by all parties.
There is no surviving a Hillary presidency solely because of the Supreme Court. It will shift far left so hard and there will never be any recovery. You can kiss your firearm rights goodbye (and the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents. Oh, 15 round limit? Ok. 10 round limit? Ok. 5 round limit? Ok. At what point is your firearms worth more than spending time with your kids?
So.... it is paramount that people do not vote third party in critical swing states. Ignore the f'ing presidency, the executive honestly doesn't do that much.
Vote only for the Supreme Court... do you want it 6:3 conservative [Ruth is going to move to New Zealand I think! LOL], or 7:2 "progressive" [Chances are very high we will lose 2 more conservative justices in the next 8]?
The problem is, even if you get Gary Johnson elected 8 years from now (riiiiight, but lets pretend) your hillary court will have revoked every right you ever gave a damn about and Gary won't be able to do anything about it - he would get maybe 1 SCOTUS nomination in 8 years, probably of a conservative, so the court would stay 7:2 "progressive". When it comes down to it, the president doesn't have nearly the power people think they do.... the most important power they have is appointing justices.
I agree with everything above about judges having the power and that the next President will have a giant amount of 2nd order power. (and the molan labe bullshit)
What I am also saying is that Hillary will be the next President - start accepting, and preparing for, that eventuality. If I end up being wrong - so what.
kidicarus13
07-21-2016, 23:06
(and the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents. Oh, 15 round limit? Ok. 10 round limit? Ok. 5 round limit? Ok.
YEP
There is no surviving a Hillary presidency solely because of the Supreme Court. It will shift far left so hard and there will never be any recovery. You can kiss your firearm rights goodbye (and the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents. Oh, 15 round limit? Ok. 10 round limit? Ok. 5 round limit? Ok. At what point is your firearms worth more than spending time with your kids?
So.... it is paramount that people do not vote third party in critical swing states. Ignore the f'ing presidency, the executive honestly doesn't do that much.
Vote only for the Supreme Court... do you want it 6:3 conservative [Ruth is going to move to New Zealand I think! LOL], or 7:2 "progressive" [Chances are very high we will lose 2 more conservative justices in the next 8]?
The problem is, even if you get Gary Johnson elected 8 years from now (riiiiight, but lets pretend) your hillary court will have revoked every right you ever gave a damn about and Gary won't be able to do anything about it - he would get maybe 1 SCOTUS nomination in 8 years, probably of a conservative, so the court would stay 7:2 "progressive". When it comes down to it, the president doesn't have nearly the power people think they do.... the most important power they have is appointing justices.
Uh hu. Right on the button. As much as I hate Trump, there is no other option.
Popular vote...
...right...
Electoral College
Have you all forgotten that little twist? Vote your conscience, vote your heart...hell, vote twice.
Just don't vote HRC.
False dichotomy. Also, the definition of "win" is not universally defined and agreed to by all parties.
How is it a false dichotomy? We live in a 2 party paradigm which demands pragmatism, not some ideological utopia where, "if we get enough, we can have a viable 3rd party candidate!" An assertion gratuitously made can be gratuiously denied, so at least draw out your argument.
In what way does it matter if "all parties" define win the same way? We don't live in a pure democracy (thank God) and at this point a win is more or less a loss for the other "side".
Popular vote...
...right...
Electoral College
Have you all forgotten that little twist? Vote your conscience, vote your heart...hell, vote twice.
Just don't vote HRC.
Hence, I qualified my statement with "popular vote". The electoral college is indeed a thing and if they were to vote against the popular vote, which may or may not work in the favor of Trump, it would be completely legit per the system. The question is whether or not the system is legit. I don't personally think it is.
Dr. Alan Keyes' videos from last "election" illustrate this problem (particularly the one about The Electoral Process):
https://www.youtube.com/user/keyesyt/videos
Let's be honest: the Republic is DEAD. It's a rotting, stinking corpse being crawled over with the maggots of society's gadfly population which has pushed people into accepting faggotry, at least cultural Marxism, indifferentism to anything of importance in lieu of continued entertainment, the complete lack of the rule of law and the oversight of an oligarchy, the continued repealing of previously held Constitutional rights by a revisionism of interpretation and sometimes complete lack of checks and balances (rather than a continued clarification, as is wont to be needed); at this point, the US is no more in line with the vision of its Founders than Lutheranism is in line with Martin Luther or Methodism is with Charles Wesley; the only thing we share with the past is, perhaps, a revolutionary spirit (which if history is a guide, is actually a bad thing). We got rid of a king and ended up with hundreds of kings. We gave power to the sheep to elect wolves... hard to be entirely sympathetic to the grand buffet which results.
If anything, we are at a point akin to Weekend at Bernie's, only instead of Bernie, we have the corpses of all the Founding Fathers being carried around by Paul Ryan types.
Yeah, General Washington, it's a slippery slope, so let's just go slowly down the path instead of jumping off the deck:
66323
Or one can saunter down the path with a 3rd party candidate. Either way, the only way to go is down. I suppose, in the end, at least vote for the guy who will walk slowest.
Aloha_Shooter
07-22-2016, 08:36
False dichotomy. Also, the definition of "win" is not universally defined and agreed to by all parties.
No, it's not. The Clintons downplayed the dichtomy to their success in both 1992 and 1996. Wilson played it successfully in 1912. In all three cases, the worst of two bad choices got into office because someone better (but in an unelectable situation) split the vote. What did we get from that? In Wilson's case, the League of Nations and World War I as well as leftist and racist policies. In Clinton's case, we got the AWB, 2 ultra-leftwing SCOTUS justices who shouldn't even have been sitting in the appellate court, Enron, the housing bubble, disembowelment of the military and intelligence (just the entire national security apparatus) communities, embedded politicization of the DOJ, Somalia, and the spawning of Al Qaeda (resulting in two embassy bombings and the USS Cole). As bad as Bush the Elder was, NONE of the items I've mentioned would have occurred in a Bush second term. World War I probably would still have happened but there's a chance it wouldn't have ballooned the way it did if the League of Nations hadn't set up the network of alliances or had been set up with enough teeth to put down an aggressor.
I agree with everything above about judges having the power and that the next President will have a giant amount of 2nd order power. (and the molan labe bullshit)
What I am also saying is that Hillary will be the next President - start accepting, and preparing for, that eventuality. If I end up being wrong - so what.
Prepare, yes. Accept, no. The problem isn't with you being wrong -- that happens a lot -- the problem is the self-fulfilling prophecy that makes you right because of idiots who won't turn out to vote or who throw a possible anti-Clinton vote away by "voting their conscience." I understood why people voted their conscience in 1992 with Perot but by 1996 they should have realized just how bad Clinton was and how futile Perot's campaign was.
Uh hu. Right on the button. As much as I hate Trump, there is no other option.
Bingo. If you want to protect the Constitution, Trump gives me the willies but anything other than voting for him is basically a vote to strike out the Second Amendment -- and the First, Fourth, and Fifth for anyone who isn't solidly onboard the leftwing agenda train. Clinton's past history has shown how she misuses and abuses official powers, how she sells out the American citizenry to line her own pockets. You think the IRS and DOJ malfeasances under Obama were bad? Just wait until Hillary gets to control them.
Its interesting to see the number of people saying things along the lines of "the Republic is DEAD", who are also saying that your vote will fix things (or at least not make it worse). If the Republic is truly dead, then your vote doesn't really matter.
Its interesting to see the number of people saying things along the lines of "the Republic is DEAD", who are also saying that your vote will fix things (or at least not make it worse). If the Republic is truly dead, then your vote doesn't really matter.
Came to post the same observation. Not a very convincing argument for how important it is to vote for a guy that no one likes and no one trusts.
Its interesting to see the number of people saying things along the lines of "the Republic is DEAD", who are also saying that your vote will fix things (or at least not make it worse). If the Republic is truly dead, then your vote doesn't really matter.
The only value it holds for me is framing the particulars of how we decline. Keeping firearm rights and free speech (including religious freedom) are important to me. They're important to Libs too which is why they keep attacking them. What's that saying about paying attention to what your enemy does?
If you want to go into decline disarmed, with a divided US on identity politics (people that want to murder your family/you because of your skin color and laws that only protect some), absent the economic resources to take care of yours, and the gov taking over private institutions that could help (churches), then it doesn't matter.
And Trump's plan will include hardship too. The moment he disconnects the central bank(ers) from the public economy all hell will break lose. This is why Fed rates are stuck at 0% for seven years. There's even been talk of reinstating Glass-Steagall (banks currently failing stress tests would have to close unless they're given significant public funding). The trade policies (eliminate trade deficits) will cause immediate pain as well. Longer term benefits are there for all of this, sure, but a lot of temporary pain and adjustment to get there.
[snip]
... the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents.
[snip]
The reason it has been bullshit to date is because people have yet to see what comes after disarmament and lack the historical perspective to understand why Libs push gun control. It has jack shit to do with safety.
If people see or begin to understand how the Second Amendment is the only check against Libs I think hearts and minds would change because I doubt even useful idiot Dem voters want to live in that world. Of course, the trick is making sure most don't catch on until it's too late.
Fortunately for us, the more Libs play identity politics and pick winners and losers after creating conflict (whites vs blacks, Muslims vs gays, etc...) the more transparent they become.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
Its interesting to see the number of people saying things along the lines of "the Republic is DEAD", who are also saying that your vote will fix things (or at least not make it worse). If the Republic is truly dead, then your vote doesn't really matter.
That's true, it doesn't matter in all likelihood. Just like it doesn't matter if you do CPR on a dead person, or point an empty weapon at an attacker, or any other things which we do anyway despite not actually mattering. However, you still should attempt. If it doesn't matter, vote Trump. :) If it matters, vote Trump. :)
SamuraiCO
07-22-2016, 11:53
Fact. I believe the collective judges have more power than anyone in this country by far.
It is because when the progressives fail at the ballot box, fail at the legislative level they fall back to the judiciary . It is unfortunate this branch was to uphold the constitution and protect us against the other two branches of the Gov and to uphold the laws EQUALLY. We need to understand this or the progressives will continue their drum beat towards effectively replacing the constitution without having to remove the document.
It is the ONLY reason I vote for Trump in this swing state. If I lived in a solidly red or blue state then I could protest vote all day long.
Remember even if you are turned off by the POTUS picks please vote for the down ticket. It would be our only hope if Hillary wins to hold both houses of Congress to keep her in check hopefully better than they did with Obama. Well....we can only hope.
66334
Not perfect. But close enough.
Bailey Guns
07-22-2016, 15:39
Close enough to what?
The reason it's BS is because the gov't has total control over all forms of communication. Disarmament is here (California) but it isn't door to door, they will never be that stupid.
So... you going to be the next lone wolf "active shooter" resulting in them passing even more truckloads of legislation, or you just going to keep what you have quietly until you get bit with some other criminal violation and you're on the news when they collaterally find "an arsenal of two guns and three boxes of ammunition found at Skip's house".
He's the secret about you that progressives already know. You're not crazy. You, and the majority of firearm owners, are... *gasp* logical. This is a weakness as far as they are concerned.
Step 1) Maintain complete control and interception over communications.
Step 2) Use intelligence assets to "defunct" any movement that could threaten the gov't before it can go anywhere.
Step 3) Thus brings any risk down to "lone wolf" operators. You can't have any organized peaceful or non-peaceful opposition without the gov't being so far up your ass they can count the polyps. Even if you thought yourself secretive.
Step 4) Now there is 0.00% chance of any successful use of the 2A.
Fast forward, after a couple decades under the 7:2 Progressive Court created by HRC.
You, as a logical person, as each piece of incremental legislation passes, will come to realize this. At no point will police ever come at your door. There isn't a scenario where you're holding an American flag screaming "Get some bitches" as the UN surrounds your house. Legislation will pass requiring you to turn in illegal weapons and items incrementally. You probably won't do it. Parts, ammunition, etc. will dry up as the black market flourishes quite expensively but with many high level raids which make the average person apprehensive to make use of it. You will cease to discuss firearms with anyone, and cease to shoot them (including with your own family members) because of the progressives that will rabidly be waiting to report you. Once again, there is never door to door confiscation.
So, nobody comes knocking on your door. However, after a generation, when you pass, your children, or if not them, your children children, will be so indoctrinated they will willingly hand over your baby killing tools of mass destruction.
When do you stand, the lone wolf, and fight it out to the death? They aren't coming to you. So you can either be the terrorist - killing innocent people who have no actual responsibility for the underlying problem, or you can die trying to go after those that do have responsibility with no effect because their security is advanced so far it renders anything you may attempt moot (while still branding yourself a terrorist). Do you waste your life, leave your family struggling to make ends meet surviving your infamy when they limit magazines to 5 rounds? Maybe when they ban 1/2 of all semi autos? Maybe when they ban magazine fed weapons? All pistols? All semi autos? Which line is it, exactly? Because there's never going to be a "ban gunz" bill that suddenly rips your underoos off your bottom.
The "Molon Labe/Cold Dead Hands" is total bullshit, pure and simple, and always will be, in any circumstance that happen while the bolded blue portions above are true. Those that foster their vivid imaginations of a last stand are either hedonistic or don't understand how the progressive engine works.
Your enemy is not stupid.
This has already happened in California. The latest legislation requires turnover of all magazines (no grandfathering) by July 2017 without compensation. Virtually all semi autos are banned now including bullet buttons. If we have a conservative SCOTUS, it will get shot down. If Hillary becomes president, SCOTUS will shift so hard they will validate the CA law however they can, making it precidential. The language of the 2A means nothing once this happens. It doesn't matter if the 2A says the sky is blue, if the progressive SCOTUS calls it green, you have no defense and no position to argue the contrary.
Foxtrot wins the Internets. Done. Mike drop. This should be a sticky that everyone should be forced to read and agree about before they are allowed to post on the board.
also: Apologies for adding a clarifier to Foxtrot's statement (the stuff in red above), but I felt it needed to be there.
The reason it's BS is because the gov't has total control over all forms of communication. Disarmament is here (California) but it isn't door to door, they will never be that stupid.
So... you going to be the next lone wolf "active shooter" resulting in them passing even more truckloads of legislation, or you just going to keep what you have quietly until you get bit with some other criminal violation and you're on the news when they collaterally find "an arsenal of two guns and three boxes of ammunition found at Skip's house".
He's the secret about you that progressives already know. You're not crazy. You, and the majority of firearm owners, are... *gasp* logical. This is a weakness as far as they are concerned.
Step 1) Maintain complete control and interception over communications.
Step 2) Use intelligence assets to "defunct" any movement that could threaten the gov't before it can go anywhere.
Step 3) Thus brings any risk down to "lone wolf" operators. You can't have any organized peaceful or non-peaceful opposition without the gov't being so far up your ass they can count the polyps. Even if you thought yourself secretive.
Step 4) Now there is 0.00% chance of any successful use of the 2A.
Fast forward, after a couple decades under the 7:2 Progressive Court created by HRC.
You, as a logical person, as each piece of incremental legislation passes, will come to realize this. At no point will police ever come at your door. There isn't a scenario where you're holding an American flag screaming "Get some bitches" as the UN surrounds your house. Legislation will pass requiring you to turn in illegal weapons and items incrementally. You probably won't do it. Parts, ammunition, etc. will dry up as the black market flourishes quite expensively but with many high level raids which make the average person apprehensive to make use of it. You will cease to discuss firearms with anyone, and cease to shoot them (including with your own family members) because of the progressives that will rabidly be waiting to report you. Once again, there is never door to door confiscation.
So, nobody comes knocking on your door. However, after a generation, when you pass, your children, or if not them, your children children, will be so indoctrinated they will willingly hand over your baby killing tools of mass destruction.
When do you stand, the lone wolf, and fight it out to the death? They aren't coming to you. So you can either be the terrorist - killing innocent people who have no actual responsibility for the underlying problem, or you can die trying to go after those that do have responsibility with no effect because their security is advanced so far it renders anything you may attempt moot (while still branding yourself a terrorist). Do you waste your life, leave your family struggling to make ends meet surviving your infamy when they limit magazines to 5 rounds? Maybe when they ban 1/2 of all semi autos? Maybe when they ban magazine fed weapons? All pistols? All semi autos? Which line is it, exactly? Because there's never going to be a "ban gunz" bill that suddenly rips your underoos off your bottom.
The "Molon Labe/Cold Dead Hands" is total bullshit, pure and simple, and always will be, in any circumstance. Those that foster their vivid imaginations of a last stand are either hedonistic or don't understand how the progressive engine works.
Your enemy is not stupid.
This has already happened in California. The latest legislation requires turnover of all magazines (no grandfathering) by July 2017 without compensation. Virtually all semi autos are banned now including bullet buttons. If we have a conservative SCOTUS, it will get shot down. If Hillary becomes president, SCOTUS will shift so hard they will validate the CA law however they can, making it precidential. The language of the 2A means nothing once this happens. It doesn't matter if the 2A says the sky is blue, if the progressive SCOTUS calls it green, you have no defense and no position to argue the contrary.
Read the 11th amendment for instance.
Pretty clear what the plain text, “human readable” meaning is:
If you are not a citizen of a given state, you can't sue that state in the US Federal Court. It’s a right to keep States from meddling in other States business, e.g. residents of CO trying to sue WY because CO residents can buy WO magazines. That is what it was intended to protect.
It took no time at all in our countries history for SCOTUS to rewrite the clear meaning of the 11th to mean (their interpretation) : You can never sue any State in the Federal Court system. (sovereign immunity) Even if you are a resident. So your state officials, agencies, employees etc. entertain absolute immunity in the federal system.
So... the eleventh amendment has been construed not to provide a right of the people, but to provide a protection to the state.
So, to, will go the way of the 2A “dodo”, quietly, after HRC gets her SCOTUS nominations.
The theme song of the Democratic party came on my Pandora feed today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GhnV-6lqH8
PugnacAutMortem
07-22-2016, 18:25
Didn't Trump win the most primaries, garner the most primary votes and have the most delegates of any Republican candidate in US history? That has to mean that Trump is going garner an extremely large section of any conservative vote in the general election right? I mean you can't be the most popular Republican candidate of all time and completely shit the bed a couple months later in the election, ESPECIALLY with Hillary as the opponent...can you?
I think the MSM doesn't want a Trump presidency, so they are underreporting his actual numbers. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Trump win in a landslide come November. I think this is exactly like the Brexit deal, nobody thought there was any way that the leave side would win, and it won handily.
I dunno, I think there's an awful lot of worrying that's being done prematurely. There's still PLENTY of time for things to change, especially once Trump and Hillary start going head to head in the debates.
68Charger
07-22-2016, 19:02
https://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by foxtrot https://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=2002771#post2002771) [snip]
... the cold dead hands molon labe bullshit is just that, bullshit) every single person here would be no different than the california residents.
[snip]
It still serves one purpose... see my sig. [Coffee]
It REALLY strikes a nerve with some of them... they get insistent that "nobody is coming after your guns".... to which the answer is "not yet, not all at once"
HoneyBadger
07-22-2016, 20:48
I probably missed it (I've been working nights and haven't been able to follow it much), but why exactly did Cruz get booed off the stage after he was invited by Trump to speak at the RNC? Was it because he said “Don’t stay home in November. Stand, and speak, and vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.” ? If those words alone are the reason he was booed, maybe we should pause for a moment and consider which of those words we disagree with and why.
spqrzilla
07-23-2016, 00:51
Didn't Trump win the most primaries, garner the most primary votes and have the most delegates of any Republican candidate in US history? That has to mean that Trump is going garner an extremely large section of any conservative vote in the general election right? I mean you can't be the most popular Republican candidate of all time and completely shit the bed a couple months later in the election, ESPECIALLY with Hillary as the opponent...can you? If anyone can, Trump can.
I think the MSM doesn't want a Trump presidency, so they are underreporting his actual numbers. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Trump win in a landslide come November. I think this is exactly like the Brexit deal, nobody thought there was any way that the leave side would win, and it won handily.
There is a theory that Trump is underpolling, as some people won't admit that they might vote for him. But Trump is way underperforming even in traditional GOP states against Hillary.
I dunno, I think there's an awful lot of worrying that's being done prematurely. There's still PLENTY of time for things to change, especially once Trump and Hillary start going head to head in the debates. The worrying is because Trump has no ground game. None. Zipola. And Hillary already has an experienced, well organized campaign staff literally ten times larger than Trump's. The Clinton's know how to run campaigns and Trump has demonstrated that he does not have a clue.
Unless something dramatic happens, if it is close, Hillary is going to slaughter Trump with better ground game resulting in better turnout of her base voters. Just like Democrats did in 2008 and 2012.
spqrzilla
07-23-2016, 00:56
I probably missed it (I've been working nights and haven't been able to follow it much), but why exactly did Cruz get booed off the stage after he was invited by Trump to speak at the RNC?
Cruz was booed because Trump is still campaigning against Cruz instead of Hillary. Trump organized delegates to boo Cruz at the convention intentionally - he had Cruz's speech in advance. Only yesterday Trump was yet again bringing up his bizarro-land nonsense about Cruz's father and JFK. More bizarre, Trump's daughter was delivering Democrat campaign slogans to the RNC and Trump delegates were cheering her.
I'm starting to think that Trump wants to throw the election. And that Trump was trolling the GOP - signalling the con - with those speeches.
HoneyBadger
07-23-2016, 01:56
Cruz was booed because Trump is still campaigning against Cruz instead of Hillary. Trump organized delegates to boo Cruz at the convention intentionally - he had Cruz's speech in advance. Only yesterday Trump was yet again bringing up his bizarro-land nonsense about Cruz's father and JFK. More bizarre, Trump's daughter was delivering Democrat campaign slogans to the RNC and Trump delegates were cheering her.
I'm starting to think that Trump wants to throw the election. And that Trump was trolling the GOP - signalling the con - with those speeches.
Again, this is why I'm confused: Trump could have easily accepted Cruz's comments (ESPECIALLY the calls for party unity) as an implicit endorsement and focused on moving forward to victory. Instead, he wanted to make some silly junior high drama about Cruz. [Dunno]
Cruz was booed because Trump is still campaigning against Cruz instead of Hillary. Trump organized delegates to boo Cruz at the convention intentionally - he had Cruz's speech in advance. Only yesterday Trump was yet again bringing up his bizarro-land nonsense about Cruz's father and JFK. More bizarre, Trump's daughter was delivering Democrat campaign slogans to the RNC and Trump delegates were cheering her.
I'm starting to think that Trump wants to throw the election. And that Trump was trolling the GOP - signalling the con - with those speeches.
I believed that when Trump started campaigning. I still don't trust him but I trust him more than any (D) right now.
It has been a while since there was a candidate I could really get behind. Seems like for at least 3, 4, 5 elections that we have the following choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0BuPgrBwHU
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