Holy WTF?!? Florida caretaker shot by officer

[trlcavscout]

This isnt a "bash cops", this is a "that officer should be cleaning toilets to pay that law suit coming for a long time! And thank goodness he didnt kill the guy."

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article90905442.html

[Zundfolge]

FINALLY they have a "bad shoot" to bitch about ... finally.

[ray1970]

I laughed a bit when I read this comment.

"Shooting the black guy seemed like the right thing to do."

[Skip]

This isnt a "bash cops", this is a "that officer should be cleaning toilets to pay that law suit coming for a long time! And thank goodness he didnt kill the guy."

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article90905442.html

Exactly.

So much of this was bad it's hard to even know where to begin.

[MrPrena]

Maybe the guy had AK or 29" barrel Barrett concealed. Maybe strapped with explosive.
Didn't see the entire video....

[ray1970]

Even if the cops feared for their lives thinking the autistic guy might might kill them with a toy truck, shooting the other guy made no sense. Perhaps some marksmanship training for the department is in order?

[Bailey Guns]

I'm still trying to figure out why this could've happened. This should be in the "WTF were they thinking?" thread.

Even though the autistic man was apparently reported as a "man with a gun", it just doesn't make sense at all from this video.

[Sawin]

"Holy WTF" is right... Someone should never have been given a badge and needs to be fired.

[davsel]

Warning shots gone bad?
Strange in many ways. Why shoot the guy who is complying instead of the one who isn't? Why the leg? Why three shots?

[Irving]

Is that website bringing anyone else's computer to a screeching halt? I can hardly read the article, let alone watch the video.

[Fmedges]

Not referencing any of the other shootings at all, but if this officer gets off than the good ol' boy network is alive and well.

[Dave_L]

I can only assume he had his finger on the trigger and was over-amped.

[hollohas]

Some people are too jumpy to safety carry firearms. This officer appears to be one. So jumpy he let THREE fly...

Sounds like a ND pure and simple. Very glad the dude didn't die.

I read there is a settlement already in the works.

[BushMasterBoy]

I was wondering how long it would take for a post about this. Florida is a dangerous place.

[Squeeze]

I was wondering how long it would take for a post about this. Florida is a dangerous place.

Florida is a shithole. As Daniel Tosh put it: "The only reason you should ever go to Florida is to identify your daughter's dead body".

Back to the topic, clearly and indisputably a bad shoot. You can guarantee there is an opening on the department and their pocketbook will be significantly lighter when this is all said and done. As to what caused the officer to shoot, well, we can speculate that until we're blue in the face. Ultimately could come down to lack of training, adrenaline, or a combination of the two.

[Irving]

As to what caused the officer to shoot, well, we can speculate that until we're blue in the face. Ultimately could come down to lack of training, adrenaline, or a combination of the two.

No one knows, not even the officer.

[KestrelBike]

Is that website bringing anyone else's computer to a screeching halt? I can hardly read the article, let alone watch the video.
foxnews picked it up http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/21/south-florida-police-shoot-autistic-mans-caretaker-as-lies-in-street.html

[Irving]

Thank you.

[Bailey Guns]

Still waiting for more info to come out of this that might help to explain it. I keep thinking there's gotta be more to the story.

[hollohas]

Still waiting for more info to come out of this that might help to explain it. I keep thinking there's gotta be more to the story.
That's usually true. But not always. Sometimes things simply are as they seem, as unexplainable as they are.

[Bailey Guns]

^^ Yeah. That's what bothers me about this one.

[Irving]

I want to hear quotes from the other officers on scene.

"I said, 'Dude, what the f_ck are you doing?!'"

[trlcavscout]

Cartaker: "Why did you shoot me?"


Officer: "I dont know"

And then to cuff him and leave him there? Ok i get the 911 call and the witness the chief talks about at the press conference. But their is so much wrong with this story. Im guessing this DB had his safety off and finger on the trigger. But really? You arrive on scene and the guy complys on the ground hands above his head, with open communication and the "stand off" results in an innocent care worker shot and hamd cuffed on the asphalt. I agree with their decision to let the state and DOJ investigate this one, because you cant explain it. I dont agree with most law suits but i hope this guy retires wealthy after this show of stupidity.

If this officer isnt charged and convicted this will end all credibility with LE. Some shoots are good, some are bad, and some are WTF, but in the end he is responsible for every round he sends down range just like everyone else.

[BushMasterBoy]

After FBI Director Comey and Hillary you think LE has any credibility? It is every man for himself.

[DavieD55]

It is just the state protecting people from themselves.

[Skip]

Florida is a shithole. As Daniel Tosh put it: "The only reason you should ever go to Florida is to identify your daughter's dead body".

Back to the topic, clearly and indisputably a bad shoot. You can guarantee there is an opening on the department and their pocketbook will be significantly lighter when this is all said and done. As to what caused the officer to shoot, well, we can speculate that until we're blue in the face. Ultimately could come down to lack of training, adrenaline, or a combination of the two.

[LOL]

Shouldn't be funny but it's true. I did two years there. I was lucky to escape alive.


ETA: [flamingo]

[BushMasterBoy]

I guess Zika virus is a good a defense as any.

[COcz]

OP's link has AIDS, but seriously in what universe is the shooter not in jail right now? This is why people turn on the cops, justifiably in my opinion in this case.

[davsel]

OP's link has AIDS, but seriously in what universe is the shooter not in jail right now?This is why people turn on the cops, justifiably in my opinion in this case.

Most of us wait for the facts to come out before finding a man guilty and locking him up.
Most of us don't condemn the entire police force based on the actions of few.

[COcz]

Most of us wait for the facts to come out before finding a man guilty and locking him up.
Most of us don't condemn the entire police force based on the actions of few.

That is not true generally. If that was anyone other than a police officer they would be in the county lockup awaiting trial for the facts to come out. It looks like a seriously bad shoot. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would not get the benefit of the doubt until I got to court if then.

I didn't condemn any entire group, simply stated that this type of preferential treatment reflects poorly on the profession in the eyes of many. It gives good cops a bad name and ammunition to people like BLM. If police in this country feel like they are getting a bad reputation, no one can change it but themselves through positive interactions with the public.

There should be protests and a dialogue when these sorts of incidents happen, but saner people should take lead and have better and realistic goals about how and what to change. I believe that the higher-ups in the departments should also take a proactive role in these sorts of cases and be more of an arbitrator between the police force and the public. It seems like no one these days wants any change for the better.

[davsel]

That is not true generally. If that was anyone other than a police officer they would be in the county lockup awaiting trial for the facts to come out. It looks like a seriously bad shoot. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would not get the benefit of the doubt until I got to court if then.

I didn't condemn any entire group, simply stated that this type of preferential treatment reflects poorly on the profession in the eyes of many. It gives good cops a bad name and ammunition to people like BLM. If police in this country feel like they are getting a bad reputation, no one can change it but themselves through positive interactions with the public.

There should be protests and a dialogue when these sorts of incidents happen, but saner people should take lead and have better and realistic goals about how and what to change. I believe that the higher-ups in the departments should also take a proactive role in these sorts of cases and be more of an arbitrator between the police force and the public. It seems like no one these days wants any change for the better.

The only reason to lock someone up before a trial is to ensure they show up for the trial. It is not a punishment. I am not aware of any police officers who have skipped out on a trial after a questionable shoot.

Police have countless "positive interactions with the public" that go unreported and unnoticed every single day.

I can't count the number of times "higher-ups in the department" appear before the press to act as "an arbitrator between the police force and the public."

I have no idea where you are coming from with this nonsense.

I suggest you apply with your local PD to take a ride-along. You may come back with a different perspective of what the police are up against every day.

[rondog]

The only reason to lock someone up before a trial is to ensure they show up for the trial. It is not a punishment. I am not aware of any police officers who have skipped out on a trial after a questionable shoot.

Police have countless "positive interactions with the public" that go unreported and unnoticed every single day.

I can't count the number of times "higher-ups in the department" appear before the press to act as "an arbitrator between the police force and the public."

I have no idea where you are coming from with this nonsense.

I suggest you apply with your local PD to take a ride-along. You may come back with a different perspective of what the police are up against every day.

So what the fuck is the reason to handcuff a wounded, innocent man that you just shot "by mistake, oops - my bad", that's laying in the street bleeding and in pain, who's been totally compliant the whole time? Didn't do shit, still took a bullet and narrowly missed by two others, but still gets handcuffed like HE'S the criminal? Why, because he's black? That's fucked up.

[MrPrena]

^

I thought it had to be an accident/negligence until the cuff part.
This video looks 10^99 times worse than MN and LA.

[jerrymrc]

Missed from 50 yards with an AR?
Police raced to Northeast 127th Street and 14th Avenue after receiving a 911 call saying there was a man in the roadway with a gun who was going to kill himself. When they got there, they found the man sitting on the ground with his truck and Kinsey, who was trying to coax the man back inside the nearby mental health center, MacTown Panther Group Home.
When police barked orders for the two to lie down with their hands up, Kinsey complied.
“Mr. Kinsey did everything right,” Rivera said.
The autistic man ignored the orders of police yelling for the men to lie down. Some of the officers were behind poles on the street. Others were behind their patrol vehicles.
Then, while Kinsey was lying supine with his hands in the air and the autistic man sat beside him, an officer fired three rounds from an assault rifle, according to North Miami police. One bullet found a target — Kinsey.
He was shot in the leg and transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital, where he continues to recover. Kinsey is expected to be released this week.
According to a law-enforcement source, the officer who shot Kinsey was taking cover behind a squad car and fired from at least 50 yards away. He shot after another officer, in a radio transmission, suggested the autistic man was loading his weapon, which turned out to be the toy truck, the source said.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bullet-that-struck-caregiver-was-meant-to-protect-him-police-union-president-says/ar-BBuCQMF?li=BBnb7Kz

[osok-308]

Most of us wait for the facts to come out before finding a man guilty and locking him up.
Most of us don't condemn the entire police force based on the actions of few.

This. There is that whole innocent until proven guilty thing as well. I'm not siding with this officer or anyone in this video right now. Obviously, more facts are needed. But this doesn't look good in any capacity.

[Fmedges]

So what the fuck is the reason to handcuff a wounded, innocent man that you just shot "by mistake, oops - my bad", that's laying in the street bleeding and in pain, who's been totally compliant the whole time? Didn't do shit, still took a bullet and narrowly missed by two others, but still gets handcuffed like HE'S the criminal? Why, because he's black? That's fucked up.

I wouldn't go out and say it's because he's black. I've been stopped by cops a few times in my life in a car and on foot and even though I was doing nothing wrong I was placed in handcuffs every time and yelled at even though I complied with everything that they told me to do. I'm convinced that the mentality of at least the officers that I've had encounters with is that if your not a cop than your a criminal to a certain extent. Maybe I'm uninformed, but putting someone in handcuffs for "Your and my protection is a bunch of shit." I was put in cuffs and the back of a squad car because I parked and was walking into a mall at Christmas time and I was on the phone talking to someone. Apparently I looked like someone who was casing cars for a robber. I was asked what I was doing and said going inside the mall to shop. Was then searched and cuffed and put in the back of the car while they worked things out. After they decided to release me I was threatened that they had my address and would come "raid my house" if anything came up missing. I'm just some ordinary guy going to the mall. To me this is the problem. I see most cops as bullies because that's how most of them carry themselves. The whole the law doesn't apply to us and to politicians etc I believe is why so many people are upset. I read an article the other day that here in Minneapolis the city has paid out on over 300 settlements for police problems and nobody on the force has ever been disciplined for any of these incidents. The fact that by in large people on the police force covers for one another also contributes to the problem. Police forces I believe have to be better at weeding out officers that are not doing the right things but to say that this guy got shout because he's black is just foolish.

[hollohas]

They never identified a weapon but were taking cover behind their cars and poles 50 yards away?

One officer said he was loading his weapon?

What a bunch of sensational, scared men that responded to that call. A serious lack of professionalism there.

[encorehunter]

If this was a bad shoot, as it aappears to be, then the officcer should be punished.

We were not there, so quaterbacking is easy. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, even police officers, who actually are humans. They have famillies and lives outside of the job.

When shots are fired, it can rattle everyone on the scene. If it had just come over the radio that he was loading a gun, shots were fired and the other person hit, how do you know an officer from a different angle of view didn't see Mr. Kinsey with a gun. The officers, not the shooting officer, put him in handcuffs thinking he may have had a gun, and that is why he was shot.

I recall a fw years ago seeing a video of an officer involved shooting that showed an "unarmed" man being shot. From the front, he had one hand above his head, the other was out of view behind him. An officer came up from behind and shot him. The officer behind had a camera showing the suspect drawing a pistol.

As for the twenty minutes to get him medical attention, what was he response time of the med unit? After sortig out the scene and realozkng an innocent may have been shot, 3-4 minutes, called for bus, 1-2 minutes to dispatch, traffic, getting trough all the police that park their cars in the way, I can see it takig 10-20 minutes to get there.

It is really interesting to see how people who have never been on scenes can tell people who work the LEO job every day how they should act. I am not an LEO.

Why can't wait staff get the orders right every time?
Why can't computer programmers write programs without bugs in them?
Why can't doctors not kill their patients?
Why can't people drive and obey traffic laws?

Everyone makes mistakes. The guilty should be punished

[Doc45]

I wouldn't go out and say it's because he's black. I've been stopped by cops a few times in my life in a car and on foot and even though I was doing nothing wrong I was placed in handcuffs every time and yelled at even though I complied with everything that they told me to do. I'm convinced that the mentality of at least the officers that I've had encounters with is that if your not a cop than your a criminal to a certain extent. Maybe I'm uninformed, but putting someone in handcuffs for "Your and my protection is a bunch of shit." I was put in cuffs and the back of a squad car because I parked and was walking into a mall at Christmas time and I was on the phone talking to someone. Apparently I looked like someone who was casing cars for a robber. I was asked what I was doing and said going inside the mall to shop. Was then searched and cuffed and put in the back of the car while they worked things out. After they decided to release me I was threatened that they had my address and would come "raid my house" if anything came up missing. I'm just some ordinary guy going to the mall. To me this is the problem. I see most cops as bullies because that's how most of them carry themselves. The whole the law doesn't apply to us and to politicians etc I believe is why so many people are upset. I read an article the other day that here in Minneapolis the city has paid out on over 300 settlements for police problems and nobody on the force has ever been disciplined for any of these incidents. The fact that by in large people on the police force covers for one another also contributes to the problem. Police forces I believe have to be better at weeding out officers that are not doing the right things but to say that this guy got shout because he's black is just foolish.


I sure hope you filed a complaint with the Internal Affairs Bureau of that department and screamed bloody hell loud about your treatment. I would've also contacted every news outlet in the city as well and probably stood outside the hq with a sign stating the threats. That is total bs.

I'm still waiting to hear how in the hell this shoot can be justified. Oh wait, perhaps it isn't. Also while I'm sick and tired of lawsuits this shooting is definitely worthy, at the least the officer should be suspended and charged. It's not about money, it's about accountability and correcting bad/illegal behavior.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Florida is a shithole. As Daniel Tosh put it: "The only reason you should ever go to Florida is to identify your daughter's dead body".

I hate the humidity and the bugs there but I'll take Florida over California or Massachusetts any day of the week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3WJbJp0s-A

[BushMasterBoy]

I wonder how many street cops actually carry binoculars in their patrol cars? Could have prevented this completely.

[CS1983]

I wonder how many street cops actually carry binoculars in their patrol cars? Could have prevented this completely.

Be quiet with your sensible considerations of PID. What next, expect police to abide by OCOKA and METT-TC? :D

[BushMasterBoy]

Be quiet with your sensible considerations of PID. What next, expect police to abide by OCOKA and METT-TC? :D

Yeah well after the cops and/or military agents shot the space aliens outside Little Rock AFB, I am a bit concerned. This is the stuff they don't teach at Air War College. Seems the only rule of law is Murphys.

[trlcavscout]

A least they didnt shoot his dog too.

http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investigates/police-kill-family-dog-at-childs-birthday-party

shooting the family pet at the 5 year olds birthday party. Class act right there.

[trlcavscout]

The office that cant shoot to save his life at 50yds supposedly is on leave and a second officer is on unpaid leave do to conflicting storys given to investigators. Supposedly he fired three rounds from 50yds aiming for the autistic individual and hit the wrong person? He was a swat officer.

[hollohas]

(snip) He was a swat officer.

Seriously???

[davsel]

Cop was wanting to be a hero and tried to shoot the gun/toy truck out of the guy's hand - as seen on the youtube. Shot to the leg was just a ricochet - never in any real danger.
At least that's what my wife's hairdresser's client's brother said.

[CS1983]

The office that cant shoot to save his life at 50yds supposedly is on leave and a second officer is on unpaid leave do to conflicting storys given to investigators. Supposedly he fired three rounds from 50yds aiming for the autistic individual and hit the wrong person? He was a swat officer.

50 yards might be too LR for him. #CQB :D

[hollohas]

Guess not every officer can shoot as well as that Irving TX officer that dropped the hostage taker back in Jan. That guy practiced his holdovers...

Still think the OP shooting was a ND. Pulling the trigger doesn't seem to make sense and then missing doesn't make much sense either. You'd think a supposed swat guy could hit his target if he was actually intending to shoot...

[Bailey Guns]

ND once? Sure. ND twice? Unlikely. ND thrice? [hahhah-no]

[CS1983]

ND once? Sure. ND twice? Unlikely. ND thrice? [hahhah-no]

3 round burst selected?

[O2HeN2]

ND once? Sure. ND twice? Unlikely. ND thrice? [hahhah-no]

Yhea, I've been wondering about the three shots and if it really was three I wonder about "sympathetic fire" from the other officer(s) as a result of the first officer shooting. In which case none of them can shoot worth beans.

O2

[Bailey Guns]

3 round burst selected?

If that's the case it's even more of a fuck up.

I'm really curious why the mainstream media isn't running this story 24/7. Makes me think there's something there that doesn't fit the standard leftist agenda. But I have nothing more than speculation. I'm sure the facts will come out in the course of the investigation.

[trlcavscout]

If that's the case it's even more of a fuck up.

I'm really curious why the mainstream media isn't running this story 24/7. Makes me think there's something there that doesn't fit the standard leftist agenda. But I have nothing more than speculation. I'm sure the facts will come out in the course of the investigation.

They said earlier the officer was hispanic not white. Although it said his commander who is the one on unpaid leave was white? I was curious as to why its not mainstrram as well. Probably cause he didnt die? Wapo and the miami local news is running it and its been "trending" on face book a couple days.

[trlcavscout]

Guess not every officer can shoot as well as that Irving TX officer that dropped the hostage taker back in Jan. That guy practiced his holdovers...

Still think the OP shooting was a ND. Pulling the trigger doesn't seem to make sense and then missing doesn't make much sense either. You'd think a supposed swat guy could hit his target if he was actually intending to shoot...

Some law enforcment spokesperson i forget who now is the one that said he was trying to hit the autistic kid to save the caretaker. Maybe it was the union person i forget now.

[hollohas]

ND once? Sure. ND twice? Unlikely. ND thrice? [hahhah-no]
I would normally agree with that. However, if he intentionally fired his weapon, because of the perceived threat of a gun in the hands of the kid, then why did he stop shooting without ever actually hitting the "threat" he was targeting? (Rhetorical question of course. I know we can't actually answer this)

I seriously doubt that during the course of his three shots (if intentional) that he determined the previously perceived threat, wasn't actually a threat at all, and chose to stop firing. Especially if the kid never reacted to the shots.

To me it seems much more likey that he had his rifle, muzzle depressed, and ND'd a few. That doesn't explain why 3 shots but would explain the misses, low hit and the lack of additional rounds...all of which otherwise are hard to explain.

Of course, this is all just academic, thought provoking discussion. I can sense someone hamering away on their keyboard now...I know we will never know the answers. Three sides to every story, etc. I don't need anyone jumping my shit for "arm chair quarterbackin". I get it. ;)

[BushMasterBoy]

The media is co-opted by the White House, Pentagon, CIA, Wall st bankers etc. They ain't gonna let any bashing go on for too long. They manipulate the press and public opinion. If you endanger the system too much, you endanger yourself.

[hollohas]

I wonder how many street cops actually carry binoculars in their patrol cars? Could have prevented this completely.
One of the local's had the good sense to use some optics for a better look...


Thomas Matthews said Thursday that when he noticed North Miami police officers responding to a commotion a block from his usual outdoor sitting spot Monday, he grabbed his binoculars and saw a middle-aged black man and a younger autistic man sitting in an intersection.

Matthews, identified as a property manager of a nearby store, told the Washington Post he recognized the pair, as they come into his store to buy candy and juices. 'They are always laughing and talking,' he said.

The officers, he said, then grabbed rifles from the patrol cars' trunks and crept toward the men. The autistic man was holding something in his hand. Peering through his binoculars, he could see the object was a toy truck. Matthews says he tried to tell an officer who had stayed behind for crowd control, but she 'barked' at him to back up.


If she would have told the other officers, maybe they wouldn't have shot,' said Matthews, a 73-year-old African-American. He said he has never had a problem with North Miami police.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3702845/Witness-police-shooting-says-tried-warn-officers.html

[Duman]

"...he didn't know who the officer was aiming at when he struck Kinsey"

[Shock][Eek3]

[Bailey Guns]

Medical conditions are sometimes hard to recognize in the heat of the moment. I recall as a supervisor once assisting another officer with a combative DUI suspect. When I arrived on scene something just wasn't right. I'd done hundreds of DUIs and immediately recognized this guy wasn't drunk. Turns out he was diabetic and was going into diabetic shock (I think that's what the paramedics said it was). I'd heard of it in training but had never seen it. Weird how it immediately entered my mind. The guy was fighting but he just wasn't there...kind of like a slow mo thing. And he wasn't being belligerent like drunks usually are.

[Duman]

At least they didn't claim defective ammo.....

[hollohas]

Medical conditions are sometimes hard to recognize in the heat of the moment. I recall as a supervisor once assisting another officer with a combative DUI suspect. When I arrived on scene something just wasn't right. I'd done hundreds of DUIs and immediately recognized this guy wasn't drunk. Turns out he was diabetic and was going into diabetic shock (I think that's what the paramedics said it was). I'd heard of it in training but had never seen it. Weird how it immediately entered my mind. The guy was fighting but he just wasn't there...kind of like a slow mo thing. And he wasn't being belligerent like drunks usually are.

And that's the actions of a good officer. Instead of blindly reacting only on what you were told on the radio or what the other officer(s) on scene said, you used your good judgement and experience to assess the situation and altered the handling of it accordingly.

[DavieD55]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woYcIzV5020&feature=youtube_gdata_player