Death of an industry by regulation...

[BPTactical]

Nope, it's not coal, or gas/oil, or commercial fishing or any other industry you think of being regulated to death.
A little thing called "I.T.A.R" (International Trade in Arms Regulations).
This is something which was started in the Cold War to prevent defense information from being shared with hostile entities.
It is under the auspices of the Department of State (remember that).
In its most basic terms it means that any defense industry related entity may not share technical information with "unapproved" entities.
Well in its omnipotent wisdom it has spread it's influence and regulation to..............wait for it......Gunsmithing!

22 July 2016 this little jewel was dropped in our laps:


On Friday July 22, 2016, the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (“DDTC”) released a letter issuing guidance on the requirement of firearm manufacturers and gunsmiths to register with DDTC under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (“ITAR”).

There has been constant discussion on the internet regarding whether an individual who has obtained a federal firearms license (“FFL”) is required to register for ITAR. Some of the Industry Operations Inspectors (“IOIs”) have taken it upon themselves to inform Type 07 FFLs that they must register for ITAR without any guidance from DDTC. There are certain instances where an FFL does not need to register for ITAR.

22 C.F.R. § 122.1 discusses the registration requirements for ITAR.

(a) Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing defense articles, or furnishing defense services, is required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls under § 122.2. For the purpose of this subchapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing a defense article or furnishing a defense service. A manufacturer who does not engage in exporting must nevertheless register.

The crux of the registration for ITAR (for most FFLs) lies within the definition of manufacturing. DDTC has not promulgated a definition for manufacturing which is the source of a lot of confusion and misinformation.


Full text here: https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/25/ddtc-issues-guidance-on-itar-registration/


Basically what these new regulations do is deem any Gunsmith that does more than refinish a firearm or change sights a "Manufacturer" and force them to "register" their business with the Department of State, with a $2250.00 annual "registration" fee.
Many small businesses (including mine) cannot afford this annual cost.
It will effectively through regulation, kill a vital part of the firearms industry.
This regulation would mean that between taxes and this fee roughly 5-6 months of the revenue my business brings in will be going to the Feds.
Even if I could afford it, I don't think I would pay it on principle.

One thing that I am confused about as is my attorney is the conflict in Federal regulations. Per the BATFE (who BTW, regulates "Commerce in Firearms")my business does not meet the criteria of a "Manufacture" as defined by them and therefore does not require a 07 FFL.
Yet the Department of State denotes what is considered "Manufacturing" when it comes to Gunsmithing.
There is a clear conflict in regulations between the two entities and I have no idea which takes precedence.

Oh, and my note on remembering who runs I.T.A.R?
The Department of State, also known as the State Department.
This stinks of Obama, Clinton and Kerry.

[ray1970]

When gunsmithing is outlawed, only outlaws will perform gunsmithing.

[BPTactical]

When gunsmithing is outlawed, only outlaws will perform gunsmithing.

I get the gist Ray but I.T.A.R. Regulation violations are nothing to sneeze at. The fines can be as steep as $1,000,000.00.

[CS1983]

A deluge would be met with a defensive ark. So they water torture/board. Drip... drip... drip... even if they don't drown anyone, they'll make enough people feel like they are to the point they just quit.

[BPTactical]

A deluge would be met with a defensive ark. So they water torture/board. Drip... drip... drip... even if they don't drown anyone, they'll make enough people feel like they are to the point they just quit.

Death by a thousand cuts.

By the letter of these regulations if I make any part that can be installed on a firearm I am considered a manufacturer.
Now look at what Massachusetts pulled with the "Copies" bullshit.
Almost identical.



A storm is coming.

[beast556]

The dems are frothing at the mouth to ban all guns in this country.

[KestrelBike]

I get the gist Ray but I.T.A.R. Regulation violations are nothing to sneeze at. The fines can be as steep as $1,000,000.00.
Not to mention possible imprisonment, oh and probable loss of certain rights that comes with that?

WTF is going on with this country...

[Honey Badger282.8]

I agree, some of the wording is pretty vague.

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20R equirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publ ish).pdf


2. Registration Required – Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engagedin the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration isrequired because the following activities meet the ordinary, contemporary, commonmeaning of “manufacturing” and, therefore, constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes:


a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capabilityof assembled or repaired firearms;
b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity;
c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks,cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);
d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading orreloading of ammunition;
e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brakeinstallation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability;
f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling;
g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and
h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel.

[DavieD55]

The dems are frothing at the mouth to ban all guns in this country.

Eventually they will as time goes on as the next generations are brainwashed with socialism and communism in the government teacher union public schools.

[DavieD55]

WTF is going on with this country...


http://www.trevorloudon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/book1-202x300.png

http://s.ecrater.com/stores/25172/48548597c869b_25172b.jpg

[KestrelBike]

I agree, some of the wording is pretty vague.

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20R equirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publ ish).pdf

Well that's BP right there.

The scary part is that it's all without any participation from Congress.

[clublights]

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ????

Where is the NRA on this????

[BPTactical]

Well, JugEars called it after not being able to get anything legislatively passed after Shady Hook.
If he couldn't get it by legislation he would get it by regulation.


The NRA is aware of it, not that they will do much about it.

[Honey Badger282.8]

So if you attach a magazine tube extension to a shotgun you'd have to register since you changed the firearms capacity.

[CS1983]

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ????

Where is the NRA on this????

Making deals which allow them to act like they did something when they really didn't, kinda like the Republican party.

[APEXgunparts]

ITAR effects more than just firearms manufacturers...
I remember a company here in the Springs facing about a $1,000,000 fine over mishandling technical documents and improperly shipping a power cord to a US base in the pacific!

Here is another example..
http://www.exportlawblog.com/archives/7872

Richard


(http://www.exportlawblog.com/archives/7872)

[APEXgunparts]

Here is a rather lengthy list of people/companies convicted for export violations:
One example is copied and posted.

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/OngoingExportCaseFactSheet.pdf


(http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/OngoingExportCaseFactSheet.pdf)Ammunition and Night Vision Goggles to Mexico
–
On March 20, 2014, in the Western District
of Texas, Oliver Bres-Carranza was sentenced to 51 months in federal prison after pleading
guilty in October 2013 for his role in a scheme to smuggle defense articles into the Republic of
Mexico. On January 15, 2014, Erik Alan Garza was sentenced to 44 months in federal prison and
fined $3,000 for his role in the smuggling scheme. Garza, Bres-Carranza and Rolando Tamayo
were charged in a June 2012 indictment with multiple counts of aiding and abetting the
smuggling of goods from the United States. According to the indictment, between June 19, 2010
and February 17, 2012, Garza and his accomplice, Tamayo, illegally attempted to smuggle defense articles into the Republic of Mexico from the United States.
Those items included night vision monocular goggles, a thermal goggle, 400 sets of AR-15 front and rear flip-up tactical sights,
approximately 5,000 high-capacity assault rifle magazines and approximately 6,000 rounds of ammunition, including 100 rounds of .50 caliber ammunition.
Tamayo remains a fugitive.
This case was investigated by ICE and ATF
(http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/OngoingExportCaseFactSheet.pdf)

[CobaltSkink]

Yeah, but the real fun comes when it comes to technical information.
There was a scare several years ago that it would muzzle blogs and forums discussing firearms and ammunition.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nra-gun-blogs-videos-web-forums-threatened-by-new-obama-regulation/article/2565762

It takes a lawyer to try to explain it. I work for a company that makes some items that can be classed by ITAR.
Can't pass data to a foreign national, or a US citizen who works for a foreign national.
Even if the info is on the web, you can't point them to it; that would be a ITAR violation.

I have to take a mandatory two-hour refresher training module every year.
Every scenario can cause a violation. The upshot is any foreign contact needs to be run past the company "export control experts".

Even if an item is not ITAR, it still may be controlled under the Department of Commerce as "dual-use".
The module likes to use the example of a valve. You can only export the valve in certain configurations.
It the valve has a corrosive chemical-resistant coating, it might be controlled: it could be used to for chemical weapons or nuclear fuel processing, ...
That technology is useful for the military: it is easy to decontaminate items painted with CARC.
Sometimes, the reasoning of why an item is controlled seems very contorted.

[jmg8550]

I agree, some of the wording is pretty vague.

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20R equirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publ ish).pdf

Does this apply to individuals as well? If I modify my own stuff, or build a rifle, is that now against ITAR?

[Great-Kazoo]

Does this apply to individuals as well? If I modify my own stuff, or build a rifle, is that now against ITAR?

No. You don't posses a FFL. DADT has become the mantra of the honest citizen.

[Sawin]

So if you attach a magazine tube extension to a shotgun you'd have to register since you changed the firearms capacity.

That's how it reads to me... but furthermore, does it then also apply to adding a +1 base plate to a magazine?
Absolutely insane.

[Dave]

That's how it reads to me... but furthermore, does it then also apply to adding a +1 base plate to a magazine?
Absolutely insane.
Not yet. They'll get around it by saying what they think they can get away with now, and then wait for future administrations to tighten up the regs so it will include punishment for those without a FFL making these mods and then telling those with a FFL that a mag base plate swap or shotgun tube extension will be considered manufacturing.

[cstone]

Regulations that only a lawyer can interpret. No wonder lawyers love such things.

Can we outlaw high capacity legislation or assault regulations?

The only thing that can stop a bad lawyer is a good lawyer. Know any good lawyers?

The cost of a firearm, ammunition and training are miniscule compared to the legal bill if you ever need to use that firearm.

Sorry Bert. You work in a highly regulated industry despite the claims by ignorant people who actually believe that we can buy a gun in a supermarket or through the Internet. Lies promoted by those who manipulate the ignorant.

[Dave_L]

Sad times we live in. Sorry for the news to your business. There is definitely a storm a brewin'.

[hollohas]

Training classes I have taken have required passports in order to make sure they comply with ITAR.

We don't live in the land of the free anymore folks.

[Circuits]

I'd like to say I saw this coming, and it's the reason I got out of the business earlier this year after doing it for 15, but I didn't, specifically. I felt like more bullshit regulations were coming down the pike, and that was a part of my decision, though.

[Erni]

ITAR was meant to prevent to prevent key tech going to hostile govs. Equipment like rocket motors, guidance and navigation, etc. The fact that some overzelous junior lawyer has been greenlighted to apply tgis at the BPT level is a travesty.

[sellersm]

Training classes I have taken have required passports in order to make sure they comply with ITAR.

We don't live in the land of the free anymore folks.

"Papers? You have papers?" Yup.

[Grant H.]

ITAR is a total fawk show that is grossly inefficient.

It sucks the big one when they decide you have to prove you haven't done anything wrong. One of the products I used to sell ended up in Qatar (legit customer sold it on eBay, someone bought it in the US, and then shipped it to Qatar), without any paperwork, and I got to spend 6 months with ITAR attorneys, my employer's attorneys, and reams of BS paperwork.

[BPTactical]

I spoke with an Industry Operations Field Inspector with the BATFE today regarding this. She was not directly familiar with this particular directive she has a basic knowledge of I.T.A.R.
I read her some of the verbiage and she felt it was "Excessive" and "Unnecessary unless one is exporting defense related goods".
She agrees it really puts the screws to Gunsmiths as most of them are small businesses as myself. She actually was very pleasant to deal with.
Unfortunately she did state that a FFL must abide by all local, state and federal regulations.
She also suggested I call I.T.A.R. for clarification and guidance.
I called Gardeners office and another Senator out of Montana(Steve Daines) who has dealt with getting ITAR regulations stepped back in the past.

We shall see what comes out in the wash but until then, I feel I will have to effectively shut the doors for the time being.
FML

[Gman]

ITAR was meant to prevent to prevent key tech going to hostile govs. Equipment like rocket motors, guidance and navigation, etc. The fact that some overzelous junior lawyer has been greenlighted to apply tgis at the BPT level is a travesty.
Oh, like the rocket technology that Bill Clinton allowed to be provided to China?

[Circuits]

Oh, like the rocket technology that Bill Clinton allowed to be provided to China?
Rockets? Tip of the iceberg - China got whole miniaturized nuclear warhead designs out of the Clinton DoD.

[RblDiver]

Eh, just keep doing what you're doing, when they try to complain say you didn't "intend" to break the law. Hillary Defense ftw!

(*Note, I'm not a lawyer nor play one on TV)

[Gman]

Rockets? Tip of the iceberg - China got whole miniaturized nuclear warhead designs out of the Clinton DoD.

I think it was 8 nuclear warhead designs that were "stolen", but Slick Willie signed off on the missile tech. China also made large donations to the Clinton foundation. Coincidence? Seems like quid pro quo to me.

Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge using Tapatalk.

[Martinjmpr]

Eh, just keep doing what you're doing, when they try to complain say you didn't "intend" to break the law. Hillary Defense ftw!

(*Note, I'm not a lawyer nor play one on TV)

The Hillary defense only works if you've got Hillary $$ and Hillary connections. ;)

I would go for the Chewbacca defense myself.

[CS1983]

The Hillary defense only works if you've got Hillary $$ and Hillary connections. ;)

I would go for the Chewbacca defense myself.


True story. At a CI refresher briefing the other day the CI chick said a lot of people have been facetiously asking her about if *they* could set up their own email servers and do .gov work at home. Her reply: "Is your last name Clinton?"

[MED]

I read the letter; I didn't realize this was an old law and went this far. This could get real ugly if the prohibited activities was interpreted to as person engaged in and not in the business of.

I know a few people who do gunsmithing on the side, and this really hurts. The federal government is out of control. Is that insanely high fee legislatively directed or is a regulatory declared fee?

[HoneyBadger]

I think it was 8 nuclear warhead designs that were "stolen", but Slick Willie signed off on the missile tech. China also made large donations to the Clinton foundation. Coincidence? Seems like quid pro quo to me.

Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge using Tapatalk.
Since we're on the topic... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0 (From NYT, of all places! )

[BPTactical]

I currently have this directive being reviewed by an I.T.A.R attorney.
I will complete work I currently have but until I get a clarification I will not be bringing in any new work aside from the very most basic tasks as defined by the directive.

This sucks, I have bills to pay.


Hey, but it will all get better under Hildabeast right?

[Erni]

Grrrr. Please keep is posted.

[Robb]

Yeah, keep us in the loop.

[fitz19d]

Another reason to make sure to get out and vote so whether you hate trump or not, he has a chance to overturn/veto/undo some of O's EO's. (Vs fighting it out in the courts)

[OctopusHighball]

Since we're on the topic... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0 (From NYT, of all places! )

So let me get this straight... I can't start a business where I install mag floor plates because they may possibly fall into the hands of a foreign government, but it's totally cool that the Russian government now effectively owns 20% of US uranium reserves after funneling millions through the Clinton Foundation?

[Rucker61]

I currently have this directive being reviewed by an I.T.A.R attorney.
I will complete work I currently have but until I get a clarification I will not be bringing in any new work aside from the very most basic tasks as defined by the directive.

This sucks, I have bills to pay.


Hey, but it will all get better under Hildabeast right?

Of course, she said she's pro 2A. She'll just have all the manufacturers and retailers sued out of business, so no new guns, and all the gun smith's will be priced out of business, so your current ones can't be repaired, and the government will continue to buy all of the ammo, so you won't have any to shoot, but the 2A won't be touched.

[Great-Kazoo]

Of course, she said she's pro 2A. She'll just have all the manufacturers and retailers sued out of business, so no new guns, and all the gun smith's will be priced out of business, so your current ones can't be repaired, and the government will continue to buy all of the ammo, so you won't have any to shoot, but the 2A won't be touched.


That's called, Common Sense.

[Kraven251]

So...if you are not doing this for profit or as a business venture, it's a non-issue. What I am hearing is a considerable amount of friends working on projects where no goods or services were exchanged is about to occur.

shit, even people that are manufacturing scope rings or throw levers are going to get boned on this...there is no way this can be Constitutional ...no fucking way. I need to step away from the computer befor I need a new screen.

[Irving]

From what it looks like, it doesn't matter if it's for profit or not.

[Gman]

...there is no way this can be Constitutional ...
If SCOTUS says it is, doesn't seem to matter what the document actually says.

[roberth]

This ruling is unconstitutional, another government overreach like so many others.

[68Charger]

I currently have this directive being reviewed by an I.T.A.R attorney.
I will complete work I currently have but until I get a clarification I will not be bringing in any new work aside from the very most basic tasks as defined by the directive.

This sucks, I have bills to pay.


Hey, but it will all get better under Hildabeast right?

Anything ever come of this? I'm curious if the Trump administration has done anything to drain the swamp at these departments...

I don't see that he's done all that much for guns, just hasn't done much against them- unlike Hildebeast would have.

TIA

[BPTactical]

Anything ever come of this? I'm curious if the Trump administration has done anything to drain the swamp at these departments...

I don't see that he's done all that much for guns, just hasn't done much against them- unlike Hildebeast would have.

TIA

I have not seen/heard any changes to the ITAR "Guidance" as yet.

[BigBear]

So our government can give billions in arms and financial aid to hostile states but we cannot do gunsmithing as a business in our own city among friends?...

Mod Edit...This site does not condone illegal activity or even the suggestion of such activity.

[earplug]

How many have written there elected leaders?
This regulation impacts on local industry and jobs. I'd think Doug Lamborn would like to help get rid of this law.
This regulation makes US based firearm designers uncompetitive on the global market.

[Martinjmpr]

I wonder if a group of gunsmiths could get together and petition the Federal District Court for a declaratory judgment on whether the law affects them or not? It seems to me that if they are in fear that conducting business as usual might subject them to criminal prosecution, they have been 'burdened' by the law to a sufficient extent that it would give them standing to have a judge declare whether or not the law applies to them.

[BigBear]

So our government can give billions in arms and financial aid to hostile states but we cannot do gunsmithing as a business in our own city among friends?...

Mod Edit...This site does not condone illegal activity or even the suggestion of such activity.

Hmmm.... My apologies Mod, not quite sure what I said that was illegal.

[Gman]

Under the table cash business to avoid a law against that business, maybe?

[BigBear]

Under the table cash business to avoid a law against that business, maybe?

I wasn't supporting it, I was musing I can see why that sort of stuff happens and why people turn to it when things get so regulated that they can't live, black market, etc... but anyways, my apologies, won't happen again. I did not state things correctly to meet all criteria, and I'll try to be more comprehensive and selective of the language I use. My apologies.

[O2HeN2]

So, BPTactical, will this offer you some reprieve? Looks like the ITAR regulations are out for commercial firearms...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/11/dems-cry-as-trump-loosens-firearm-export-restrictions/

O2

Of course, this could just become a ping-pong game from one president to another :(

[roberth]

In addition making the export of firearms easier, the move will save “small gunsmiths” over $2,000 annually by eliminating the requirement that the register with the State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls each year.

A good thing.

[Erni]

Wow. I was going to vote MAGA next election because Trump drives all the "shmaht" people crazy. But if this holds up I will send him a donation.

So when is the grand reopening?

[BPTactical]

So, BPTactical, will this offer you some reprieve? Looks like the ITAR regulations are out for commercial firearms...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/11/dems-cry-as-trump-loosens-firearm-export-restrictions/

O2

Of course, this could just become a ping-pong game from one president to another :(

Only a proposal, nothing has changed as of yet.

[earplug]

I just wrote Doug. Has anyone else written your representative?

[def90]

I wonder if a group of gunsmiths could get together and petition the Federal District Court for a declaratory judgment on whether the law affects them or not? It seems to me that if they are in fear that conducting business as usual might subject them to criminal prosecution, they have been 'burdened' by the law to a sufficient extent that it would give them standing to have a judge declare whether or not the law applies to them.Well... This didn't even bring up enough resistance as banning M855 or whatever so...... Apparently ammo buyers have a larger voice than an entire industry of gunsmiths and manufacturers.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Irving]

Most people don't run businesses, let alone small businesses, so it doesn't affect them. People who do run businesses likely also have to spend money just to operate and may have the opinion that you have to pay to play; because for many that is the reality. It probably feels worse that the barrier to entry was put into place by the stroke of a government pen and is clearly just a bullshit attempt at stifling an industry that whatever government official doesn't like.

Many more people buy ammo than utilize gunsmithing services, and even those who do both are still spending way more on ammo than gunsmithing, so it's not surprising that the ammo thing caused more of a reaction from the public.

[bryjcom]

Looks like they might be trying to rectify this rule change.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...kly+Newsletter

[Gman]

Looks like they might be trying to rectify this rule change.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...kly+Newsletter
Page not found

[CobaltSkink]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/04/17/itar-rule-change/

[Gman]

Thanks for the working link.

Here is the proposed change if you want to 'cut to the chase': https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201710&RIN=1400-AE30