View Full Version : Problem with brass chambering
This is a new one for me. I'm using a dillon carbide resizer for 308. I installed as directed, resized some cases, trimmed to length then tried to chamber. None would chamber in any of my 308 rifles. So then I backed sizer out and slowly lowered it as I checked chamber ingredients and again it would never allow bolt to close, all the way down til the ram can't even do a full motion. Any idea the problem? Should I get another resizer and try that?
Is the expander screwed far enough down that it comes out last? Are you lubing properly?
Chamber clean?
Check the resized brass in another 308 rifle if possible, too. That would rule out your chamber. Try marking the brass in the shoulder, neck and near the base with a Sharpie or smoke from a candle and chamber the brass. This should give you an idea of where the problem is.
Is the expander screwed far enough down that it comes out last? Are you lubing properly?
Chamber clean?
How do you mean comes out last? Both rifles are brand new, never fired. One is semi auto the other bolt action. I picked up a hornady die and it still seems to be a problem.
As for lubing I have hornady one shot, put about 30 cases in a plastic bag give a few sprays and toss. I've done that with many different calibers in different presses and never had issues.
Let me give more detail on chambering. In bolt action the bolt goes forward but won't turn down. Like at all. In my semi auto the bolt nearly closes but not quite and it requires a slam eject to get the case out.
Delfuego
08-25-2016, 18:13
Are you using bump gauges?
How far are you bumping the should back from fired brass?
Have you measured the necks?
Is this your fired brass or from someone else?
Measure some brass fired from you gun against the brass your prepping.
Measure shoulder.
Measure length.
Measure the case mouth (maybe the mouth thickness too).
It could also be that you chamber requires a small base die.
It could be that the brass needs to be trimmed.
Could be not enough bump or thick necks or long cases
Great-Kazoo
08-25-2016, 18:29
As for lubing I have hornady one shot, put about 30 cases in a plastic bag give a few sprays and toss. I've done that with many different calibers in different presses and never had issues.
Let me give more detail on chambering. In bolt action the bolt goes forward but won't turn down. Like at all. In my semi auto the bolt nearly closes but not quite and it requires a slam eject to get the case out.
2 items
1 IMO shit can the 1 shot. Or use it on pistol brass. However using or not, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
2- run the sizing die down another 1/8 - 1/4 turn. Sounds like , while being sized. they are not sizing to your chambers.
I do semi and bolt action in 2 different batches.
I'm with Kazoo turn the die down further. I have a Dillon die I have to damn near have it touching my shell holder to get it size for my bolt action.
I hear ya but I turned it down to where I can't even fully run the ram. If I back that slightly out it still won't chamber. If I had the tools to measure every aspect I would but it's difficult with calipers. It appears to be at least very close to accurate but when talking about this stuff even the slightest off measurement could cause the problem I'm having. When I slide the case in either chamber it seems to fit well until I try to close the bolt.
This is once fired brass I purchased online from a reputable seller. All is lake city, looks clean and not beaten up. Runs through the sizing die smoothly. None were fired in my rifles. Normally I would think it's a chamber rifle but the fact that it does basically the same thing in both makes me want to rule that out.
I feel based on the symptoms it's either a shoulder issue or back end of the case being slightly too bulged. However, I ran the die clear down so I don't think that's the issue. I haven't adjusted the decapping pin at all in the die, would that matter?
Try it with the decapping pin set to protrude like you were decapping. Are you feeling a lot of resistance on the upstroke? I have had my expander/decapping pin set too short before. If it enters the neck while the die is still engaged, it stretches the brass because your squeezing from the outside while the expander is still inside.
+2 on the one shot. I haven't had a stuck case since I stopped using it. If your not getting a good lube you could be seizing up.
If you want to meet up, I can let you try a case gauge.
Use your caliper and measure the neck diameter after sizing. What's the I.D? Perhaps compare, as best you can, datum points on fire formed brass from that gun to the sized brass. A couple thousandths can make a difference.
I haven't had any issues with one shot, no stuck cases and the operation is smooth. So do you recommend turning the decapper down so it protrudes more?
I put a painted case in the chamber a few times and the only spot that looks scratched is the bottom of the case just above the rim, so it seems for some reason the sizer isn't properly narrowing that part of the case.
XC700116
08-25-2016, 22:36
What press are you using?
Delfuego
08-25-2016, 23:49
you might try a small base die. without a bump gauge you are really SWAG'ing it. get a set and a comparator insert too. then at least you can measure the shoulder bump.
You wouldn't be the first guy to have to grind off the bottom of the die to get more shoulder bump.
You wouldn't be the first guy to have to grind off the bottom of the die to get more shoulder bump.
Agreed thats a possibility but both dies, the hornady and the dillon? Seems strange. If that's the case is it a problem with the die or the press? If it's the die I might just see if dillon would send another, I don't have the tools or patience to mess with that.
Unless it is LC LR headstamped is is machine gun brass fired in a huge chamber .
Get a deminsion diagram from a loading manual and measure the case head size , if it is more than .002 - .003 bigger you will have issues with case life and loose primer pockets because the case head has expanded .
Get a case gauge and set the die up with that , there is no way to tell how the chamber's are cut on the rifles . You can get away with setting the die with the chamber on a bolt rifle but not on a gas gun . This is because the bolt mass and chamber act as there own resizing die and you end up with stuck cases in the chamber like you did .
Every Dillon rifle die I've seen is in between a normal SAMMI spec die and a small base die and I've never had an issue with either 308 or 223 on my 650 or single stage press with Dillon dies . Dillon designed his dies to feed his machine gun habit and this is why that is .
Run 2 separate lots of brass for the rifles , running 1 for both will over work the bolt rifle brass and lead to early failures because of needing to size the gas gun brass more for feeding reliability .
Trimming the OAL of a Dillon rifle die will be near impossible for most because the carbide insert is full length and is harder than hell and most cutting tools won't cut it .
End result is the brass may be scrap and will not size properly .
Hoser could roll size it for you maybe.
Roll sizing only works on straight wall cases not tapered , the roll sizer will only get the widest part and not touch the rest .
Agreed thats a possibility but both dies, the hornady and the dillon? Seems strange. If that's the case is it a problem with the die or the press? If it's the die I might just see if dillon would send another, I don't have the tools or patience to mess with that.
What press are you using and where are you located?
What press are you using and where are you located?
Dillon 650 in broomfield
I'm in Boulder and would be happy to full size a few for you with my Forster die. I can check dimensions before and after so the answer to why is solved. Let me know if interested.
I would just try a few pieces of different brass and see what happens. Especially since the brass you have is the one variable you haven't changed. I wouldn't think you got two bad dies and I also wouldn't think you had two different rifles with goofy chambers.
Try some commercial brass and see what happens. If that doesn't fix it I'm afraid I'm going to have to guess some sort of operator error might be to blame.
I would be interested, thanks, but it might not be for a week due to my schedule. I certainly never rule out operator error, I'm not new to reloading but I am to this press, so it's always possible. It's odd that the only scuff that shows is on the bottom of the case just above the rim. It does lead me to believe it's not sizing all the way down and it's too wide to go fully into chamber which also makes sense since the bolts nearly close. However I can't screw either die any further and once even crushed the neck of a piece of brass because it was too far down.
Is there any chance you're using a neck sizer die instead of a full length die?
Try one piece with a different lube. Use motor oil if you don't have anything else. Clean your die well first. Share your results.
I know this isn't the reason but here it goes. When you tried to chamber the cases was the head of the brass up against the bolt face and not the extractor claw?
Zombie Steve
08-27-2016, 14:19
As for lubing I have hornady one shot, put about 30 cases in a plastic bag give a few sprays and toss. I've done that with many different calibers in different presses and never had issues.
Let me give more detail on chambering. In bolt action the bolt goes forward but won't turn down. Like at all. In my semi auto the bolt nearly closes but not quite and it requires a slam eject to get the case out.
I didn't see this asked, so just to be clear - you're having problems in both guns?
Ooops. Never mind. Both rifles.
You said it ran through the die just fine. I did once purchase some once fired lake city that was clearly shot through some sloppy machine gun chamber. I had to throw about 20% of them in the scrap bin as they just wouldn't resize. They were really bad.
Just to rule something like that out, do you have any virgin brass you could try?
Thanks for all the advice guys I figured it out. So basically I had to run the die so far down that it crushed the neck then SLIGHTLY raise it, like an 8th of a turn and now it's fine.banything beyond that wouldn't size it right. What a mess. Never had a die or press that picky.
tmjohnson
09-08-2016, 10:55
You might also try another shell holder.
Or (beats a dead horse), some quality lube.
Great-Kazoo
09-08-2016, 16:39
You might also try another shell holder.
Shell holder's have been an issue in the past
Or (beats a dead horse), some quality lube.
Over lubing can cause issues, same as not enough. I kept the 1 shot for hand gun brass, however it will never be used on rifle brass again. That stuff is the goldiloks of reloading. There's more issues (from that insidious internetz) with 1 shot than anything else.
spqrzilla
09-08-2016, 17:01
That stuff[Hornady One Shot] is the goldiloks of reloading. There's more issues (from that insidious internetz) with 1 shot than anything else.
Word. Every time I've had to help someone remove a stuck case from a die, there is a can of One Shot on the reloading bench.
Had a similar problem. The Redding Body die solved my problems. Sounds like yours is on the other side.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/131051-223-Size-Problems
https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/401/401556.jpg
(https://www.ar-15.co/threads/131051-223-Size-Problems)
Delfuego
09-08-2016, 19:48
Gauges are the best tool you can get. Without them you are only guessing what is happening.
Zombie Steve
09-09-2016, 09:05
Word. Every time I've had to help someone remove a stuck case from a die, there is a can of One Shot on the reloading bench.
I have never understood why people have a problem with one shot. It has always worked as advertised for me.
:dunno:
DenverGP
09-09-2016, 16:03
I have never understood why people have a problem with one shot. It has always worked as advertised for me.
Had trouble with it the first couple times I reloaded 223... Figured out I needed to quit being a stingy bastard with the stuff and spray it on pretty heavy... haven't had a single issue since. Also need to be sure to follow directions and shake it up really well.
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