Woman Killed in Conifer by pitbull. (according to the news)

[HBARleatherneck]

My new neighbors were suprised I carry all the time. They said they dont see anything that would be a threat out here.

This is one of the reasons.

http://www.9news.com/news/local/2-injured-in-dog-attack-in-conifer/310879743

[Great-Kazoo]

FWIW: A neighbor can turn in to a valid threat.

Remember those words oft repeated when interviewed. It's such a nice neighborhood. Who would think something like that could happen here

[Robb]

Lots of funny things going on in my neighborhood, it's not great, but not bad by any means.
I was rotating cars last night and some car, blacked out windows, pulls up across the street right in front of my house, and just sits there windows up & idling. A few minutes go by so I walk out there with a flashlight and he slowly rolls away. WTH? Yes I was carrying. You just never know.

Shame about the woman killed, never turn yur back on a Pitt you don't know.

[milwaukeeshaker]

Don't turn your back on ANY dog you don't know.

[Wulf202]

I almost drew down on a gsd going after a pregnant lady last week. Completely un provoked.

[hurley842002]

never turn yur back on a Pitt you don't know.

Umm, it was her own pitt...

[BPTactical]

The "Breed of Peace" strikes again.


I think I have seen 2 useful Pit's in my life.
Both were lying on the side of the road.




FWIW-My dad was a veterinarian and forgot more than any breeder or self proclaimed "dog expert" could ever hope to know on this breed.
They were bred for one purpose and one purpose only.
To kill. They have a genetic disposition to attack and when they attack it is to kill.
They are a grenade with a hang fuse, you NEVER know what will trigger it.
They can be the nicest, sweetest dog and then BAM!

Fucking worthless.

[bczandm]

I made a 911 call just a few weeks ago when a neighbors pit bull escaped the back yard and after wandering the neighborhood for an hour attacked another dog. Fortunately it chose the dog and not the women who had her dog on a leash or her 10 year old son. I love dogs but the pit bulls scare me.

Yes I was armed and could have protected the woman or child if needed.

And I do like great kazoo's comment on "it's such a quiet neighborhood", so true!

[bobbyfairbanks]

The "Breed of Peace" strikes again..

i see what you did there. Funny

[Great-Kazoo]

Lots of funny things going on in my neighborhood, it's not great, but not bad by any means.
I was rotating cars last night and some car, blacked out windows, pulls up across the street right in front of my house, and just sits there windows up & idling. A few minutes go by so I walk out there with a flashlight and he slowly rolls away. WTH? Yes I was carrying. You just never know.

Shame about the woman killed, never turn yur back on a Pitt you don't know.

ALWAYS get a lic plate when possible.

[Monky]

Dog bashing threads now.. This place really does come full circle.

Let's just throw it out there that people are just as unpredictable as animals..

http://kdvr.com/2016/08/30/man-fatally-shot-after-not-holding-door-for-woman-at-mcdonalds/

[kidicarus13]

Where is the proverbial "pitbulls are the most loving breed ever and they sleep with my children every night" post?

[Monky]

Where is the proverbial "pitbulls are the most loving breed ever and they sleep with my children every night" post?

Well i'd imagine if I had kids I'd post it.. All I've got on that is my pit is a bed hog, and snores a lot.

[roberth]

Dog bashing threads now.. This place really does come full circle.

Let's just throw it out there that people are just as unpredictable as animals..

http://kdvr.com/2016/08/30/man-fatally-shot-after-not-holding-door-for-woman-at-mcdonalds/

OK badge bunny.

[MED]

Dogs are a problem up here. There are so many people who have dogs running loose on their property with a shitty fence or no fence. Just the other day, I saw two that came onto the road and go after a jogger and her dog. I used my car to push them back onto their lot; the lady told me she was already nipped once by those. I've been run after, a loud no command stopped him, or I would have put him down. There are constantly dogs barking for hours that are left outside and not trained; it really sucks that people just don't give a shit.

As far as breed goes, people need to understand their breed and respect what they do; the biggest problem with pits and to some extent other large breeds is that owners choose to ignore what they are capable of doing. Part of a dog is training and handling, but there are those who completely dismiss the selective breeding process and what makes certain types of dogs. My dog does things that only a herding dog will do; not because I trained her, but because she does them instinctively since she is a German imported working line GSD.

[Monky]

OK badge bunny.

If you even knew where that came from you'd still look like an idiot for trying to use it as an insult.

[fitz19d]

The "Breed of Peace" strikes again.


I think I have seen 2 useful Pit's in my life.
Both were lying on the side of the road.




FWIW-My dad was a veterinarian and forgot more than any breeder or self proclaimed "dog expert" could ever hope to know on this breed.
They were bred for one purpose and one purpose only.
To kill. They have a genetic disposition to attack and when they attack it is to kill.
They are a grenade with a hang fuse, you NEVER know what will trigger it.
They can be the nicest, sweetest dog and then BAM!

Fucking worthless.

If I didn't know better, I'd say this was satire. Replace some words and you literally sound like the gun grabbers talking about murderous handguns and black rifles. I'm not attacking having an opinion that pits are a bad idea, just cmon a little heavy on the hyperbole no?

I wouldn't argue that they are *generally* more naturally aggressive overall, but my opinion is that 9/10th of the problem is the people who choose and want pits are the ones that either encourage it, or do nothing about training their dog. Just with a big dog like a pit more consequences than the hordes of tiny yap yap dogs that to me are usually the most aggressive likely to bite bunch of dogs. (Just since they are 8 lbs it's more funny or a nuisance at best)

[BushMasterBoy]

Mauled by a dog is a hell of a way to die.

[fitz19d]

Dunno, for me I'm more scared of a fking chimp attack? Ever see the after photo's of those. Granted the chance is remote, but when I hear someone joke or half heartedly think how cool it is to have a monkey/chimp as a pet, I go find them the articles from the various owners killed by them. (Dog takes your throat, monkey just likes to start biting off fingers and private parts.)

[Bailey Guns]

Pure speculation on my part...but if I had to guess I'd bet she got in the middle of a dog fight.

My JRT that just passed absolutely lost her damn mind when she'd get in a fight. Lucky for me she wasn't big enough to kill me.

[BPTactical]

If I didn't know better, I'd say this was satire. Replace some words and you literally sound like the gun grabbers talking about murderous handguns and black rifles. I'm not attacking having an opinion that pits are a bad idea, just cmon a little heavy on the hyperbole no?

I wouldn't argue that they are *generally* more naturally aggressive overall, but my opinion is that 9/10th of the problem is the people who choose and want pits are the ones that either encourage it, or do nothing about training their dog. Just with a big dog like a pit more consequences than the hordes of tiny yap yap dogs that to me are usually the most aggressive likely to bite bunch of dogs. (Just since they are 8 lbs it's more funny or a nuisance at best)

LOL, I knew somebody would see my post that way. It actually ran through my mind as I was typing it.
Key point overlooked- we are discussing a living, breathing ANIMAL with natural and unnatural (inbred) instincts. It's instincts are to eat, make little dogs and fight. It was not bred to herd, to hunt or guard.
It was bred to fight and when it fights, it fights to kill. It does not fight to assert dominance of a pack like most dogs do.
You are attempting to parallel to an inanimate mechanical object.
Almost a Liberal talking point eh?

And my "hyperbole" as you call it is based on the insight of a man who had 45+ years experience in practicing veterinary medicine.

[Dave_L]

Yeah, my hand has gotten chewed on by my Cairn terrier but its not devastating, like a pit attack.

The ar15 to pit analogy is a little flawed because you're comparing a living thing with a mind of its own to an inanimate object.

[hurley842002]

IBTL

[Great-Kazoo]

you're comparing a living thing with a mind of its own to an inanimate object.

Sounds like you met my ex-wife

[MrPrena]

Her own dog? That is crazy.

[Irving]

Oh thank God we have something to argue about between election arguments and football arguments.

[Bailey Guns]

According to a study of dog attacks over a 30 year period there are more attacks/fatal attacks by pit bulls against humans than any other dog breed. According to THIS SOURCE (http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2014.pdf) pit bulls account for more fatal attacks than the next 34 breeds combined (Pit Bulls 295 fatalities, next 34 breeds 196 fatalities).

It's only one source and I doubt the methodology is beyond any sort of suspicion, but it's gotta at least make you think there is something inherent in the breed that predisposes them to attack people.

Crap...JRTs have killed 2 people. I'm gonna have to keep a closer eye on my little yard sharks.

http://dogs.petbreeds.com/stories/4046/dog-breeds-attack

[Bailey Guns]

UPDATE: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/both-dogs-behind-fatal-dog-attack-euthanized


CONIFER, Colo. -- A fatal dog attack in Jefferson County Monday led to the death of a mother and hospitalization of her son.

Police say first responders rushed to treat a woman who suffered severe injuries in an attack by two dogs, later identified as pit bulls.

Medical professionals pronounced the mother, now identified as Susan Shawl, 60, dead, but rushed her son Richard Shawl, 36, to a local hospital.

Police have still not said what led up to the attack but did say Richard had been cited with a warning notice after a neighbor reported his dogs as being loose and aggressive.

Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputies stated they feel for the family. Richard Shawl authorized animal control to euthanize both dogs on Tuesday.

[Great-Kazoo]

Oh thank God we have something to argue about between election arguments and football arguments.

TOYOTAS !

[BushMasterBoy]

In North Korea they would execute the dogs with an anti-aircraft gun and then BBQ & eat the dogs.

[MrPrena]

In North Korea they would execute the dogs with an anti-aircraft gun and then BBQ & eat the dogs.

Former refugees said, Some of area in nk doesn't even have a rat. They been eating grass for years.

[buffalobo]

IBTL
^^^This.

Argue all you want, leave personal attacks/insults at home.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Ridge]

Oh thank God we have something to argue about between election arguments and football arguments.

Tebow should run on the Green Party ticket.

[BPTactical]

^^^This.

Argue all you want, leave personal attacks/insults at home.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

So no sic'ing the dawgs on em?





[Coffee]

[buffalobo]

So no sic'ing the dawgs on em?
Not unless they is trespassing.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[BPTactical]

Not unless they is trespassing.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[flamingo]

[Fentonite]

True, pit bull attacks have resulted in more deaths than other breeds. But that statistic is only part of the story, and standing on its own without more data, gives a skewed and inaccurate impression. For instance, a study of Fatal Attacks by Breed showed that, over the same period of time, there were 66 deaths from pit bulls, and only 17 from German Shepherds. Sounds terrible, about 4 times as many deaths from pit bulls! But a more complete review of the statistics would also disclose that over that same period of time, the pit bull population was 5.25 million, and the German Shepherd population was only 780,000. Thoughtful analysis reveals that an individual German shepherd was actually more likely to cause a death than an individual pit bull. Over the same period of time there were only 8 deaths from Chows, but due to a much smaller population of Chows, they were actually more likely, per dog, to cause a fatality than either the GSD or the pit.

1-800-PETMEDS (tel:1-800-PETMEDS) put together a compilation of some interesting facts from multiple studies about this, and actually do a pretty god job breaking it down to a simple level, on both sides of the argument. Here's a link if you're interested (reference listed here for above data):
http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/pit-bull-facts-and-myths.htm

Just putting some facts out there.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Also, dogsbite is to dogs what the Brady campaign is to firearms.

[TheGrey]

I used to groom dogs, and Chow Chows were among the top few that I had the owners muzzle before they left. Unpredictable, untrained, and aggressive!

I was bitten badly by a Pit Bull that I was to groom- one that the owners insisted "I must have provoked."

But the worst by far was an unneutered, untrained, and overindulged West Highland White Terrier. I still have the scars, after 20+ years.

[.455_Hunter]

Not a fan of pit bulls, but I was attacked by a Golden Retriever at age 12, so you never really know.

[Jer]

The only problem with a pit bull is the type of person who tends to get one.

[Jamnanc]

The only problem with a pit bull is the type of person who tends to get one.


Winner. The other problem with pits is that half the people that think they want one abandon it to the pound since they shouldn't have a dog in the first place.

[Fmedges]

Did you hear about the pitbull buyback program that Denver is putting on? Apparently you can turn in your pit bull and get a $200 visa gift card. The old dogs will be given to artists where they will turn them into art.

[Monky]

The only problem with a pit bull is the type of person who tends to get one.

Is that like saying people who get a Tacoma are generally...?

I don't know one person who owns a pit who is anything but an upstanding citizen.. maybe I just don't hang around with that 'type'.

Wouldn't trade my dog for anything..

[3beansalad]

beware of 37# of mixed breed... he's awfully protective.

66938

[Great-Kazoo]

Is that like saying people who get a Tacoma are generally...?

I don't know one person who owns a pit who is anything but an upstanding citizen.. maybe I just don't hang around with that 'type'.

Wouldn't trade my dog for anything..


It's the Deed. Not the Breed.

[Jer]

Is that like saying people who get a Tacoma are generally...?

I don't know one person who owns a pit who is anything but an upstanding citizen.. maybe I just don't hang around with that 'type'.

Wouldn't trade my dog for anything..

Intelligent? Yes. Most likely but not all.

Just like your friends who own them. I too have close friends who have APBTs for some time now. Gentle, kind loving with them their kids & even other pets to include non-dogs. For every person like that you & I know there's 10 that buy dogs because of their look & reputation.

[beast556]

beware of 37# of mixed breed... he's awfully protective.

66938

Your dog looks a lot like my dog. Except my dog has the pointie bull terrier ears. Like every one has said it all how the owners handle the dog.

[Monky]

What about wives? If you piss them off they can chew people's face off too. And it's illegal to muzzle 'em now.

[Sarcasm2] (for the record my wifey and I get along great, we even worked together 7 days a week running a gun store for years... hard to beat)

You can still muzzle them.. you just can't get caught doing so. Just say she read all of those shades books..

[Tim K]

True, pit bull attacks have resulted in more deaths than other breeds. But that statistic is only part of the story, and standing on its own without more data, gives a skewed and inaccurate impression. For instance, a study of Fatal Attacks by Breed showed that, over the same period of time, there were 66 deaths from pit bulls, and only 17 from German Shepherds. Sounds terrible, about 4 times as many deaths from pit bulls! But a more complete review of the statistics would also disclose that over that same period of time, the pit bull population was 5.25 million, and the German Shepherd population was only 780,000. Thoughtful analysis reveals that an individual German shepherd was actually more likely to cause a death than an individual pit bull. Over the same period of time there were only 8 deaths from Chows, but due to a much smaller population of Chows, they were actually more likely, per dog, to cause a fatality than either the GSD or the pit.

1-800-PETMEDS (tel:1-800-PETMEDS) put together a compilation of some interesting facts from multiple studies about this, and actually do a pretty god job breaking it down to a simple level, on both sides of the argument. Here's a link if you're interested (reference listed here for above data):
http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/pit-bull-facts-and-myths.htm

Just putting some facts out there.

I'd be wary of the facts and conclusions in this report. Numerous other sources paint a very different picture of the population of dogs by breed. Here's just one.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/dog-statistics/

Myself, I'd be wary of any population numbers cited by anyone on either side of the argument since they are pure estimates. There is no dog census, so any attempt to gage the population of a particular breed is almost pure guesswork. The study I linked is at least verifiable numbers since it quotes the number of registered dogs. If (and it's a big if) the general population can be extrapolated from the registered population, it appears that pitbulls make up a far smaller overall proportion of the dog population while accounting for a large percentage of the attacks.

There are roughly 338,000 registered dogs in the US. Of those, Pits account for 22,600, or roughly 7% of the population. What percentage of attacks are attributed to them?

Here's some more interesting data.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Dog+attack+stats+with+breed+2012.pdf

In truth, I don't really care about the arguments or even the answer. I'd never given it two thoughts until I read that article from PetMeds, and it seemed so far off base from what I'd thought previously I had to go do a little research for myself. Maybe they are right and pits are sweet loving animals that are no more likely to bite your face off than a Labrador. I, however, will continue my practice of viewing them with a wary eye.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I'd be wary of the facts and conclusions in this report. Numerous other sources paint a very different picture of the population of dogs by breed. Here's just one.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/dog-statistics/

Myself, I'd be wary of any population numbers cited by anyone on either side of the argument since they are pure estimates. There is no dog census, so any attempt to gage the population of a particular breed is almost pure guesswork. The study I linked is at least verifiable numbers since it quotes the number of registered dogs. If (and it's a big if) the general population can be extrapolated from the registered population, it appears that pitbulls make up a far smaller overall proportion of the dog population while accounting for a large percentage of the attacks.

There are roughly 338,000 registered dogs in the US. Of those, Pits account for 22,600, or roughly 7% of the population. What percentage of attacks are attributed to them?

Here's some more interesting data.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Dog+attack+stats+with+breed+2012.pdf

In truth, I don't really care about the arguments or even the answer. I'd never given it two thoughts until I read that article from PetMeds, and it seemed so far off base from what I'd thought previously I had to go do a little research for myself. Maybe they are right and pits are sweet loving animals that are no more likely to bite your face off than a Labrador. I, however, will continue my practice of viewing them with a wary eye.


Your first link is based on data from American Kennel Club registration which is optional, most owners do not, and only open to pure bred dogs. As you alluded to, it's not an accurate representation of the pet population at large.

If you're interested in some decent, unbiased research click this link.
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx

Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma,44 (https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx#references) however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous. The pit bull type is particularly ambiguous as a "breed" encompassing a range of pedigree breeds, informal types and appearances that cannot be reliably identified. Visual determination of dog breed is known to not always be reliable.45 (https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx#references) And witnesses may be predisposed to assume that a vicious dog is of this type.
It should also be considered that the incidence of pit bull-type dogs' involvement in severe and fatal attacks may represent high prevalence in neighborhoods that present high risk to the young children who are the most common victim of severe or fatal attacks. And as owners of stigmatized breeds are more likely to have involvement in criminal and/or violent acts46 (https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx#references)—breed correlations may have the owner's behavior as the underlying causal factor.

This article from Bark Post, while biased for Pit Bulls, does have a lot of good info as well. Further, a lot of the info comes from neutral sources.
http://barkpost.com/pit-bulls-shelters-question/

[BPTactical]

I will stand by my "Grenade with a hang fuse" analogy.

[Jer]

I will stand by my "Grenade with a hang fuse" analogy.

Any breed dog with improper handling/training fits this description. The idea that 'This dog is a pit bull so it's dangerous and that dog is a GSD so it's trustworthy' is dangerous.

[KestrelBike]

Any breed dog with improper handling/training fits this description. The idea that 'This dog is a pit bull so it's dangerous and that dog is a GSD so it's trustworthy' is dangerous.

I agree with your first sentence, but I also see that many GSD's have a high propensity for hip displasia, due to the inbreeding that occurred when it became such a popular breed. Ditto pugs having breathing difficulties when they were bred over and over for the asthetic of their flat face.

So, it doesn't make sense that dogs can have physiological problems due to generational-breeding practices and this is accepted fact, but psychological problems are suddenly off-limits because "You don't know my dog, man, he's the sweetest thing ever and we work all the time on his behavior."

Pits were bred for a specific purpose, but this did not come without other effects, including a propensity to lose it and become "triggered" (shudder). It's in the breed. That said, I'm sure GSD's probably also have behavior ghosts lurking in the attic, because of the constant breeding for roles requiring aggression. Ditto rotweilers/chows/dobermans. I have to imagine that out of those 3 breeds though, Pits are the undisputed champs for having been inbred to the point that they're all a bit psycho.

Apologies for offending any of the pit lovers, but F no I'd never let one near any child I cared about.

ETA: Also, owners obviously have a huge role in determining a large portion of how dogs will behave. 95% of the pits I see are owned by roma or guys with pants hanging at their thighs thinking they're badass, or some 100lbs woman walking it because it makes her feel safe. In the previous case, I doubt those guys do a lot of discipline training, and in the woman's case, I laugh at the idea of her being able to restrain the dog if it decides to go after someone/thing. Here again, I stay away from that walking disaster.

[Honey Badger282.8]

That's all well and good but it's also worth noting that smaller dogs tend to be more aggressive than larger breeds, to include the Pit Bull. Obviously they do less damage due to their size when they do attack. Regardless, it's never a good idea to let your guard down around any animal. I'm more cautious around those smaller breeds than any big dog. They won't do much damage but getting bit by a little shit Chihuahua is annoying.

[Graves]

The only problem with a pit bull is the type of person who tends to get one.

Yep.
It's a shame to see we have a couple folks here who have bought into the bulls#!t some moron fed 'em.

[Ah Pook]

Breaking up a dog fight would be a possibility. Seen several people with bandaged hands from trying to break up their dog's fighting. The neighbor, in the video, mentioned that the dogs didn't get walked and she heard them barking. No exercise makes for a keyed up animal.

Not the way I want to go out.

We are seeing an influx of pits, wolf hybrids and other aggressive breeds up here. Millennials, who can barely dress themselves, are getting these puppies and giving them no training.

[ColoradoTJ]

I will stand by my "Grenade with a hang fuse" analogy.

I seen this first hand as a young kid with a neighbors pitbull. It was Thanksgiving morning and my brother and I were out playing in the snow banks waiting to go off to church.
All of a sudden our neighbors PB stated to attack my brother. He was not injured and we got inside our home. Our area had no fences and it went next door to the neighbors house (already left for church) and their dog was killed and it ate his food. My Dad went out to see if we could safely get to the car and he could not even get off our porch. He came back in and took my baseball bat and a broom handle back out. The PB wore my Dad out. He latched on to that broom handle and he smacked that dog so many times he was sweaty when he came back inside.

We were litterly trapped in our house until a friend from the humane society could get out. My Dad wanted to take the 12g to its head, but my Mom insisted that we just wait.


This his is what happened. The owners, left the dog on a chain for the weekend with a big bowl of food and water. He ran out and was hungry. I honestly believe that under certain different owners this would have never happened....but it did. My Dad and I went to court a few months later over this ordeal. This was the third time the doc has been in trouble and it was put down.

The neighborhood kids would take this dog and it would pull us on skateboards all day long. Damn thing was a powerhouse. It was always good to us kids until that day.


I also also used to raise Rottweilers. One of my old friends would open his house to rescue dogs. My friend needed to go for a weekend away with his family so I watched the dogs. He had a male German Shepard and two female Rotts. My male was inside. The females started fighting and I went out, grabbed a 4x4 post (building a deck at the house) and tried to stop the two from fighting. Actually, the one was getting torn up bad. I beat the one Rott until I was exhausted. She only stopped when the other was damn near dead. 180 stitches in the one females leg alone. That was the day I realized how helpless I would be against a dog that size if a gun was not involved.

[Grant H.]

Any breed dog with improper handling/training fits this description. The idea that 'This dog is a pit bull so it's dangerous and that dog is a GSD so it's trustworthy' is dangerous.

Absolutely true.

However, some breeds are more prone to be dangerous than others.

Like it or not, Pits are bred to be aggressive and dangerous. So are other breeds. Raised right, treated well and trained, they will likely never have an issue.

How many people do you know that own dogs and actually raise/train them? 99% of all the dogs in my neighborhood are "taken care of" (food, water, yard, and shelter) but very few are actually trained. One or two "off" days, and all bets are off.

[BushMasterBoy]

And that video explains some of our members perfectly.

[Bailey Guns]

I read on a gofundme page she MAY have had a seizure and fallen on to the sleeping dogs in a narrow hallway, resulting in a fight and her being attacked. She was taking meds that contributed to her quickly bleeding out.

https://www.gofundme.com/2mv2xmk

[Mazin]

I say one less ignorant owner out there, I do however feel sorry about the pups. As far as Pitbulls are concerned we have beat this to fucking death......ITS THE STUPID FUCKING OWNERS!!! I have had multiple pits and had friends that have been breeders, if treated like your supposed to treat an animal (respect and proper discipline) you won't have any issues. Don't act like stereotyping liberals, be educated about the subject matter. Kind of like all black guns are evil and AR stands for assault rifle.......

Btw I've had Jack Russels, pits, Akita's, Rotty's, Westys, hounds, labs, dobermans, cocker spaniels, poodles, wolf husky mix and chows. I have never had an incident that my own stupidity didn't start.

/end thread