View Full Version : 9/11 aftermath
milwaukeeshaker
09-14-2016, 07:47
So, 15 yrs later where are we in terms of the current undeclared "police action" war? What has been accomplished other than the wounding, maiming, and killing of our great young men of the military? Are we any safer? 15yrs! Even WW2, a real world war fought on two fronts only lasted 4 yrs. How long can they continue this giant money making scam until the American people demand an end? WTF Anyone read 1984? What a giant SNAFU.
Bailey Guns
09-14-2016, 07:59
The fight against "terror" is not comparable in any way to the fight against the Axis powers in WWII. Other than people are dying. I hardly think it's a "money making" scam, either...not for the government or the people, anyway. There may be some companies or individuals profiting from it. Aside from that it's costing a fortune. And, in the way it's being fought, I'd say it's reaping little in return in terms of greater safety for our citizens. It's hard to quantify but I doubt we're any safer as a whole. Of course, the vast majority of people faced little risk of becoming a terror victim before 9/11 and the vast majority still face little risk of it.
Our system makes it hard to fight a "war" like this one because the decision makers in government are constantly changing and there's no agreement from one administration to the next on how to proceed. I'd argue we've lost any progress that might've been made initially in the last 8 years over changes in policy. But, fear is a great motivator. As long as the government can keep us afraid, the money will be there...whether it is or isn't. If we continue with the current strategy it's gonna cost us in personal liberties...more than it already has.
On 9/12, we should have nuked Medina, Mecca, Tehran, Baghdad, and Riyadh.
Over in a day. Problem solved for the next century.
Instead, we elected a Musloid as CIC. Twice.
We get what we deserve.
http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/813da5bf23010b83056e031585c17d38a720610028cb0488af cd46d2bbec7031.jpg?w=800&h=499
We are no safer than we were on 9/10/2001, in fact we are less safe due to the importation of enemy combatants and the open southern border.
The Bush and Obama administrations have overseen the senseless murder of our valuable young men helping the country, Saudi Arabia, that initiated the 9/11/2001 attacks. The reason Bush the Younger greets in-bound troops isn't out of love or caring, he greets them because of guilt. Guilt over starting a war that had no end game, guilt over a war to "bring democracy to the Middle East" when the Middle East wants nothing to do with democracy, save Israel. Obama has continued this murder at the behest of the Sauds, getting the ambassador and good men murdered in Libya, supporting the MB in Egypt, destabilizing Syria, isolating Israel. Obama has allowed all the difficult work containing jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001-2008 go to waste by standing by while ISIS established itself on territory bled on by US troops using US military equipment left behind and intact by cowardly Iraqi troops.
The arrogance in assuming that Muslims would embrace democracy is hubris at its finest. Islam has never and will never operate that way and too think such is folly in its purest form.
The ME needs strong men like Assad and Saddam to keep the baby-raping goat fuckers in check, no matter how bad Saddam was, he was enormously better than ISIS.
The war against Islamic terror started long before the last fifteen years. It's been going on my entire life, 45 years. Modern Islamic terror started shortly after WWII; and morphed into the attack on innocents soon after they were defeated in numerous battles and wars. They do this because they can't compete in a military conflict, and to break down the resolve of their enemies. It is a war of ongoing attrition, and stupidly the Untied States and its allies try to make peace with these people through appeasement, which never works. Maybe all the decisions surrounding Iraq and Afghanistan weren't the best, but at least this country actually did something about it. The only unforgivable mistake is giving up, or not standing up to these people, or giving in to the demands of those who want to kill you, or in Israel's case erase them from existence. The world of Islam will keep attacking until we finally give up, and then God help us when that happens.
milwaukeeshaker
09-14-2016, 08:32
You are right about the money making. I was referring to the military industrial complex, ie the Halliburtons of this "war on terror". They are the ones reaping the rewards. We on the other hand are losing a lot of a generation of young Americans, with nothing to show for it.
The fight against "terror" is not comparable in any way to the fight against the Axis powers in WWII. Other than people are dying. I hardly think it's a "money making" scam, either...not for the government or the people, anyway. There may be some companies or individuals profiting from it. Aside from that it's costing a fortune. And, in the way it's being fought, I'd say it's reaping little in return in terms of greater safety for our citizens. It's hard to quantify but I doubt we're any safer as a whole. Of course, the vast majority of people faced little risk of becoming a terror victim before 9/11 and the vast majority still face little risk of it.
Our system makes it hard to fight a "war" like this one because the decision makers in government are constantly changing and there's no agreement from one administration to the next on how to proceed. I'd argue we've lost any progress that might've been made initially in the last 8 years over changes in policy. But, fear is a great motivator. As long as the government can keep us afraid, the money will be there...whether it is or isn't. If we continue with the current strategy it's gonna cost us in personal liberties...more than it already has.
milwaukeeshaker
09-14-2016, 08:34
It would end if we would take a REAL war to these muslim scumbags.
The war against Islamic terror started long before the last fifteen years. It's been going on my entire life, 45 years. Modern Islamic terror started shortly after WWII; and morphed into the attack on innocents soon after they were defeated in numerous battles and wars, because they can't compete in a military conflict. They do this to break down the resolve of their enemies. It is a war of ongoing attrition, and stupidly the Untied States and its allies try to make peace with these people through appeasement, which never works. Maybe all the decisions surrounding Iraq and Afghanistan weren't the best, but at least this country actually did something about it. The only unforgivable mistake is giving up, or not standing up to these people, or giving in to the demands of those who want to kill you, or in Israel's case erase them from existence. The world of Islam will keep attacking until we finally give up, and then God help us when that happens.
You are right about the money making. I was referring to the military industrial complex, ie the Halliburtons of this "war on terror". They are the ones reaping the rewards. We on the other hand are losing a lot of a generation of young Americans, with nothing to show for it.
Halliburton is small potatoes.
The real rewards are in the daily weakening of American resolve. Look at the millennials today, do you think they'll stand up to the coming tyranny if HRC wins and beyond? No way, this is exactly what the (D) end game is, to make America the same as all the other countries on the planet, a country of slaves for the elites to manipulate and throw away.
Halliburton is small potatoes.
The real rewards are in the daily weakening of American resolve. Look at the millennials today, do you think they'll stand up to the coming tyranny if HRC wins and beyond? No way, this is exactly what the (D) end game is, to make America the same as all the other countries on the planet, a country of slaves for the elites to manipulate and throw away.
Unfortunately, this is where we are at; modern America is a sad shell of what it once was. I think this is why my dad is developing alzheimer's so late in his life, so he doesn't have to watch it.
Oh Maggie, Maggie what have we done...
BushMasterBoy
09-14-2016, 08:46
Oil.
Oil.
Baloney, that is what the leftist media want you to believe. There is enough oil in this country and we're developing alternatives.
On 9/12, we should have nuked Medina, Mecca, Tehran, Baghdad, and Riyadh.
Over in a day. Problem solved for the next century.
Instead, we elected a Musloid as CIC. Twice.
We get what we deserve.
It isn't too late.
Islam is not a religion, Islam is a competing form of government with a religious component.
In 1776 a group of men wanted their own government so they started a war against the competing government which was also the most powerful military of that time. These men won and the result was the greatest country the world has ever known. The United States of America. We can do it again, only there are two governments to defeat this time, communism and Islam.
Communism can be defeated by education and votes but first we must expose the lies and vote the bastards out.
Islam can only be defeated by force and if you think HRC and her bed-wetting millennials are up to that task then you are too stupid for words.
It isn't too late.
Islam is not a religion, Islam is a competing form of government with a religious component.
In 1776 a group of men wanted their own government so they started a war against the competing government which was also the most powerful military of that time. These men won and the result was the greatest country the world has ever known. The United States of America. We can do it again, only there are two governments to defeat this time, communism and Islam.
^This.
Oh Maggie, Maggie what have we done...
Yup.
I didn't enjoy writing the words about how the government that we voted for wasted all those valuable lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and I hope with all my heart that my words don't diminish their service and sacrifice.
I have no children and cannot imagine the pain the Gold Star parents feel, still it brings me to tears to think about it.
I have no children and cannot imagine the pain the Gold Star parents feel, still it brings me to tears to think about it.
Watching my parents grieve is more painful than loosing my step brother.
BushMasterBoy
09-14-2016, 11:00
Oil+US dollar=petrodollars. Oil is priced in US dollars only. The truth will never be reported by the media. The majority of Americans could not comprehend the truth anyways. The reason is the educational system. Average American reads at the 7th grade level. The Ivy League elite at the central government prefer it this way.Top searches in Google are always entertainment performers and sport celebrities. I can't believe DOD is going to give Chelsea Manning a sex change operation. A hundred years ago, he would be shot by a firing squad. Sometimes I wonder if there isn't some type of Zika virus that we haven't been told about.
But I do likes me some cheap oil!
https://www.google.com/trends/hottrends
Bailey Guns
09-14-2016, 11:09
But I do likes me some cheap oil!
And that right there is the reality. Almost everything we do and everything we have is because of a reliable source of oil. Everything. If it doesn't run on it, it's made from it. If it isn't made from it or it doesn't run on it, it's delivered by it. Everything.
If there's anything worth fighting for at this stage it's a reliable source of oil. It'll take several generations to wean ourselves from it.
ETA: That isn't to say that's why we went to war in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. I don't buy that for a minute.
And that right there is the reality. Almost everything we do and everything we have is because of a reliable source of oil. Everything. If it doesn't run on it, it's made from it. If it isn't made from it or it doesn't run on it, it's delivered by it. Everything.
If there's anything worth fighting for at this stage it's a reliable source of oil. It'll take several generations to wean ourselves from it.
ETA: That isn't to say that's why we went to war in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. I don't buy that for a minute.
We can drill through glass - just sayin.
This war has been going on since before the Middle Ages. If you hold to the bible you understand it will never be resolved until the return of Jesus. Nukes, war, invasions, birth, death...there will be no resolution till Christ returns.
For those who understand the reference...Islam is the Borg.
68Charger
09-14-2016, 13:19
I have no connection to know one way or the other, but I've theorized that one of the reasons George W. started "the war on terror" was to bring the fight to them...
That is to say, those that have died fighting in the Middle East since 9/11 haven't died in vain, they have kept the fight OVER THERE, in the Muslim's backyard... as long as there are infidels to fight on their "holy ground", then they have not focused as much on committing another atrocity like 9/11.
There are a number of reasons Obama would have continued- but he did take a lot of the teeth out of our troops by ROE changes...
Calls to turn the ME into glass are not realistic (but I know lots say it because it makes them feel better), there would be at the very least intense backlash from the rest of the world- and most likely it would simply mean the start of WW3.
68Charger
09-14-2016, 13:51
how are we not in WW3? Many nations fighting on more than one front. Sounds like WW3 to me. Just because the enemy doesnt fly the same exact banner, doesnt mean that isdum isnt the common banner that unites them. We are at war. The world is at war. isdum is at war.
The whole world is in conflict.. a full-fledged WW3 would mean virtually all national efforts by many nations would be directly going to the war effort.
Millions would be dying each year on the front lines (or from nukes).
We were all born into a world at war- the struggle between good and evil has been going on forever...
Having been one to join, and fight, in the so-called "undeclared Police action" war, I feel that to a point we were on a good track to hunt down and kill those who aided and abetted the enemy that caused the death of 2,996 Americans on that Tuesday morning in 2001. We did completely destroy the recognized command and control functions of Al Qaeda, and deposed the Taliban government that was providing material aid to AQ. If one were to look at the events from 2001 until 2008, look at how many attacks occurred on US soil by foreign trained hostile actors. Compare that to 2008 until now. Like him, hate him, whatever, Bush did do one thing, he proved his administration wasn't going to sit idly by when we were attacked, he didn't pull our people out and enable Islamic terrorists to take over, and he proved that this dog had fight in it. I was proud to have served under his watch, and gladly went to Afghanistan in the 7th year of the conflict. Not questioning anyone's patriotism or love of country, but if you didn't voluntarily sign up, expecting to go over there, you don't know what it was like, and your diminishing of mine and my friends actions and service does nothing more than cause insult and ire. We may not be treated nearly as poorly as the veterans returning from Vietnam, but there is plenty of ill-treatment of us now-returning veterans, with poor VA care, false stigmas being spread around, and people insulting our service by calling our conflict, which some of us did believe in, illegitimate.
DavieD55
09-14-2016, 18:53
The war on terror is a war on Americans, the Constitution and the entire republic. It is a way for the criminals in the government to institute laws of tyranny and continue on with their gestapo police state global transformation of the United States. We are no safer today than we were prior to 9/11 and probably in more danger from a completely corrupt out of control over bearing government full of criminals that seek to control and micromanage every aspect of our lives and this isn't just at the federal level, this is at every level of government.
As it was previously mentioned we are no safer now than we were prior to 9/11, but we have a government full of criminals that just keeps on granting themselves more authority over our lives as if the Constitution is null and void. We are watching a technocratic tyranny being constructed in the USA where an all powerful centralized government full of criminals that do whatever they want and much of this is made possible under the guise of "the war on terror" and a dumbed down society of fools educated in academia and public schools by the same shitheads that control the war on terror.
jhood001
09-14-2016, 22:41
We can drill through glass - just sayin.
Cute answer. I'm glad you're leaving the non-generalized thinking of resolution to others... more gifted than you.
10% of say... Syria is Christian. There are around 200k 'believers' in Iraq. Close to 1 MILLION in Saudi Arabia. We can go on.... and on.
Even if you're entirely in jest, you are advocating for the death of innocents via nukes because it would make your current understanding of geopolitics simpler.
I'm starting a new church. I'm calling it the 'Church of Me'. Join us. You'll fit right in.
When was the last time Japan attacked us?
67128
Good article from Robert Spencer:
https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/09/14/why-the-war-on-terror-has-taken-15-years-and-will-take-much-longer/?singlepage=true
Why the War On Terror Has Taken 15 Years, and Will Take Much Longer
This war has gone on for a very long time, and last Sunday, the 15th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 jihad attacks, among all the reminiscences, and eulogies, and encomia, virtually no one attempted to explain why.
There’s a simple reason this topic wasn’t discussed: among our political and media “elites,” no one knows the answer.
Even the most dire estimates of exactly how long this is going to take have fallen wide of the mark. General Petraeus said in 2010 that it could take another ten years to defeat the Afghan “insurgency.” Do you think the Taliban is likely to be disbanded and Afghanistan to be a stable, functioning republic in 2020?
In 2007, Britain’s security chief, Admiral Lord Alan West, said it could take 30 years to defeat terrorism in the United Kingdom. Do you think that in 2037, Britain will be peaceful and free of jihad terrorists?
The very idea is preposterous, and it is preposterous for the same reason that 15 years after 9/11, no one knows why this strange war has lasted so long.
West said more in that 2007 interview:
I now realize that we are talking about a generation -- and by that I would say 30 years. That doesn’t mean necessarily that we are going to stay at a severe level of threat for all those years. But to be able to say one has absolutely changed the mind-set and thought of people IS going to take a generation.
West nailed the answer there -- but no one seemed to notice.
Because nothing, nothing whatsoever, is being done in Britain or anywhere else to change “the mind-set and thought of people.”
That is precisely why, fifteen years after 9/11, the West is weaker and more vulnerable than ever.
The entirety of Western intelligentsia, the totality of our political and media elites, steadfastly refuses to acknowledge exactly what the “mindset and thought” of the terrorists really is, and where it comes from. Because of that refusal, policies that don’t deal with the actual problem keep being applied and re-applied -- at the cost of thousands of American lives, billions of American dollars -- and we have nothing to show for this expenditure besides a sharp and continuing loss of American power and prestige.
The jihadis who struck the U.S. on September 11, 2001 have made such immense advances since then not because they are strong, or clever, or capable, but because we are weak, short-sighted, and resolute. Resolute not in fighting them, but in maintaining our denial about who they are and what they want.
The denial is so complete that we have taken numerous steps to actually enable them to achieve their goals: the billions gifted to the Islamic Republic of Iran and the welcoming of the massive Muslim migrant influx are just two of the most recent examples.
On the 15th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, instead of stories about the jihad threat and how it can be defeated or at least contained, the media posted articles that would give an uninformed observer the impression that 3,000 Muslims were killed on 9/11. The media preoccupation today is almost entirely with Muslims as victims:
“Muslim Americans still struggle with hate crimes, 15 years after 9/11,” claimed AOL.
“For many Muslims, especially those born after Sept. 11, Islamophobia seems to be a fact of life,” lamented the Huffington Post.
The Washington Post ran a piece by Rep. Keith Ellison:
I’m the first Muslim in Congress. I believe America can beat Islamophobia. Fifteen years after 9/11, American Muslims have seen both progress and peril.
After Fort Hood, and Boston, and Garland, and Chattanooga, and San Bernardino, and Orlando, and Paris, and Brussels, and Nice, and so very many others, this myopia is ludicrous to the point of being grotesque.
And it is the key reason why this war drags on, fifteen years after 9/11: millions unthinkingly accept the dogma that to speak honestly and accurately about the jihadis’ motives and goals is to descend into “racism” and “bigotry,” and to endanger innocent Muslims.
Fifteen years after jihadis murdered nearly 3,000 Americans, it is still almost unheard-of for there to be an honest discussion of jihadi motives and goals in the mainstream.
The free West is dug in: wholeheartedly committed to denial, willful ignorance, and policies that are self-defeating to the point of suicidal. In light of that, the wonder is not that this war has lasted so long, but that we have held out so long.
Unless the political landscape changes considerably and this denial is decisively rejected and discarded, much darker days are coming.
68Charger
09-15-2016, 07:46
"Islamaphobia" is not a defined mental condition- it is really just a bullshit term created by the left to label any criticism of Islam as something negative... While at the same time saying muslims are the victims at every turn.
IMHO, Liberalism and Islam have one thing in common: evil
Even Bill Mahr (whom I can't stand) has enough brains to recognize that the Left has some kind of mental disorder related to Islam- there is no reason they SHOULD support it, since there are direct contradictions between Sharia and Liberalism... but the bias is clear.
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