Carrying on school property

[Rumline]

There's an elementary school near my house and I'll often take my non-school-aged kid there on the weekends to play on their playground. There's always a number of families/kids there playing so I figure it's fine to use their facilities outside of school hours.

The other day I was there with my kid and I saw another parent roll up who was obviously carrying. He had a button-down shirt tucked into skinny jeans. I noticed the clips from his Crossbreed holster on his right hip and mag carrier on the other side, plus the corresponding bulges. I thought it was funny because other than the gun he looked like a hipster, complete with Prada sunglasses that he wore despite the sun already being below the horizon.

Anyway I didn't think it was legal to carry onto school property even with a permit, regardless of if school is in session or not. Is that correct? My purpose is not to narc on the guy; seeing him just made me wonder about the legality.

[68Charger]

LEO are exempted, IIRC

Maybe he was a narc?

[KS63]

If he's not LEO, he's ignorant of the law.

[Snowman78]

*** All titles of the Colorado Statutes have been updated and are current through the laws passed during the 2016 Legislative Session, subject to final review by the Colorado Office of Legislative Legal Services. ***

TITLE 18. CRIMINAL CODE
ARTICLE 12. OFFENSES RELATING TO FIREARMS AND WEAPONS
PART 1. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS - GENERAL

C.R.S. 18-12-105.5 (2016)

18-12-105.5. Unlawfully carrying a weapon - unlawful possession of weapons - school, college, or university grounds



(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=2&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-1-901&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=55e86d327a3bd0aa161e0a57eec1f6e0) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.

(2) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2000, p. 709, § 45, effective July 1, 2000.)

(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:

(a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; or

(b) The person is in that person's own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under that person's control at the time of the act of carrying; or

(c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person's or another's person or property while traveling; or

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1 (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-105.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=f23bd34e9a7e17995d8975e1e9a840e7), as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=4&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-214&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=99d30af399dfc258913f037a2e397961); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=5&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-214&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=2f9abf04d76c032a98d58d6f1b5d9477); or

(e) The person is a school resource officer, as defined in section 22-32-109.1 (1) (g.5), C.R.S. (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=6&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2022-32-109.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=7af27d5adde6304d34b1e8e745e930fd), or a peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S. (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=7&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2016-2.5-101&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=411bc9261a935a4f0a9d3ca14f767e41), when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S. (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=8&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2016-2.5-101&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=c7c61aa4ad61b56424b32eda3f6a79bc); or

(f) and (g) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2003, p. 1626, § 51, effective August 6, 2003.)

(h) The person has possession of the weapon for use in an educational program approved by a school which program includes, but shall not be limited to, any course designed for the repair or maintenance of weapons.

[Monky]

Concealed is concealed..

On a side note.. props to him for managing that with skinny jeans on.

[Rumline]

(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:

[...]

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1 (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-105.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=f23bd34e9a7e17995d8975e1e9a840e7), as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=4&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-214&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=99d30af399dfc258913f037a2e397961); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=5&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-214&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=2f9abf04d76c032a98d58d6f1b5d9477); or

(e) The person is a school resource officer, as defined in section 22-32-109.1 (1) (g.5), C.R.S. (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=6&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2022-32-109.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=7af27d5adde6304d34b1e8e745e930fd), or a peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S. (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=7&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2016-2.5-101&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=411bc9261a935a4f0a9d3ca14f767e41), when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S. (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=9ad543ebfbfd5a05bb9f07228c4d243d&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-105.5%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=8&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2016-2.5-101&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=c7c61aa4ad61b56424b32eda3f6a79bc)
Wait...so is (d.5) saying that it's legal if you have a permit? I don't have a LexisNexis account so I can't follow the links.


Concealed is concealed..

On a side note.. props to him for managing that with skinny jeans on.
Agreed...if I wasn't familiar with the look of Crossbreed's clips I probably wouldn't have noticed at all. Only after doing a double-take did I notice the printing/bulge.

[crays]

I'd make a comment about you noticing his bulge, but this is a family forum... [Flower]

[.455_Hunter]

No saying it apples here, but it is often extremely difficult to determine the boundaries of school property. Schools are frequently co-located with parks, and the delineation is non-existant.

[crays]

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/?app=00075&view=full&interface=1&docinfo=off&searchtype=get&search=C.R.S.+18-12-214

or

C.R.S. 18-12-214 (http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado?app=00075&view=full&interface=1&docinfo=off&searchtype=lt&search=C.R.S.+18-12-214)

Either link should be accessible without sign-up/registration



18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions



(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district or charter school as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.

[68Charger]

Concealed is concealed..

On a side note.. props to him for managing that with skinny jeans on.

Nope, I cannot bring myself to do that for anybody wearing skinny jeans if they have a penis (I don't care what they identify as, I don't have to give them props) [handbags]

ETA, they're free to do whatever they want, I'm also free to not appreciate it in any way... in general I just don't care.

[Rumline]

I'd make a comment about you noticing his bulge, but this is a family forum... [Flower]
LOL I was waiting for somebody to make a comment along those lines. Even though I was looking at the guy's hips, it was definitely awkward for me to be looking around his waistline. I've heard that as a supporting rationale for IWB, that men don't generally look at each other in that area. I think it's true but only to an extent. I noticed the cross emblem out of the corner of my eye and that prompted me to take a closer look. If something looks out of place or out of normal I think it's going to draw attention, regardless of body placement or social norms. That's just how our monkey brains are wired.

[Rumline]

Either link should be accessible without sign-up/registration
That's weird, when I clicked the links in Snowman's post this morning it took me to a login screen. After I clicked your links, I can click on his links and it takes me straight to the article/statute. Maybe it was just the intertubes getting clogged but either way thank you.

[Irving]

It's illegal, he knows it, and good for him.

[newracer]

He may have just forgot to take the weapon off. I may or may not have done that a few times.

[davsel]

He may believe his duty to ensure his family's safety outweighs abiding unconstitutional laws.

[gnihcraes]

No saying it apples here, but it is often extremely difficult to determine the boundaries of school property. Schools are frequently co-located with parks, and the delineation is non-existant.

This is the problem I've struggled with. The lines are blurred and it's very difficult to know where is Ok and not.

I personally just took my long walking stick with me to the playground. (rattan bo staff from karate)

[TFOGGER]

I'd make a comment about you noticing his bulge, but this is a family forum... [Flower]


"Is that Glock in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?






Yeah, I went there...[ROFL1]

[Monky]

"Is that Glock in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?






Yeah, I went there...[ROFL1]

I'm not carrying AIWB today..

[DireWolf]

"Is that Glock in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160923/15e2b0b463b03c7d6650df03585ea5db.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Ramsker]

Should be prosecuted . . .


















For the skinny jeans.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

So with a CCW permit, you can carry on the grounds of a private school, as long as it isn't posted? Not saying that you won't get a ride from a cop if caught, but you should beat the rap. The linked statutes, in regards to CCWing, refers to only public schools. I have noticed at private schools that they don't have signs posted, but when they had an area blocked off for construction, that area was posted no CCWing.

[Irving]

No, private doesn't matter as long as it is K-12.

[MarkCO]

No, private doesn't matter as long as it is K-12.

You might want to consult an attorney on that one. My kid's school took down the signs, at my request, and consulted legal counsel. :)

[Irving]

Well, I guess I'm wrong.

[Great-Kazoo]

http://www.safecampuscolorado.org/colorados-current-concealed-carry-law.html

http://smartgunlaws.org/guns-in-schools-in-colorado/

[Rucker61]

http://www.safecampuscolorado.org/colorados-current-concealed-carry-law.html

http://smartgunlaws.org/guns-in-schools-in-colorado/

The top link refers only to public schools while the bottom link says public and private.

[Zundfolge]

Well, I guess I'm wrong.

Bookmarking this post for use later :p

[CS1983]

The top link refers only to public schools while the bottom link says public and private.


The bottom link, if you read down to the paragraph below the bullet points, only shows the public school exceptions.

Basically: ccw = no go for public with the exceptions listed. ccw = ok for private.

In the (incorrect) first paragraph of the bottom link, it also states universities/colleges are a no go for ccw. That's categorically false.

[Irving]

Bookmarking this post for use later :p

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/159477-Experts

[Great-Kazoo]

The bottom link, if you read down to the paragraph below the bullet points, only shows the public school exceptions.

Basically: ccw = no go for public with the exceptions listed. ccw = ok for private.

In the (incorrect) first paragraph of the bottom link, it also states universities/colleges are a no go for ccw. That's categorically false.

That depends on who runs it. State run you can,private you cannot.

[CS1983]

That depends on who runs it. State run you can,private you cannot.

in general or if they ban?

I only know what the state school I went to did and had in the student handbook etc. I don't see why a private college cannot allow or disallow at will?

[osok-308]

LEO are exempted, IIRC

Maybe he was a narc?

This is ture. And I was thinking the same thing about him being a narc.

[CS1983]

Going back to GK's answer of ccw on Private College campus = "bad mmkay"... which I truly was unaware of given it makes no logical sense (thanks, "law" makers!)

Would this chart be correct in general?

68211

[GilpinGuy]

He may believe his duty to ensure his family's safety outweighs abiding unconstitutional laws.

Wow, this thread is confusing, but davsel's comment is my default mindset when I'm not sure.

[CS1983]

Wow, this thread is confusing, but davsel's comment is my default mindset when I'm not sure.

The laws are so convoluted and ill-conceived that, undoubtedly, everyone is a technical felon. This is at least one sign of a bad society prepped for collapse.

[Rucker61]

The bottom link, if you read down to the paragraph below the bullet points, only shows the public school exceptions.

Basically: ccw = no go for public with the exceptions listed. ccw = ok for private.

In the (incorrect) first paragraph of the bottom link, it also states universities/colleges are a no go for ccw. That's categorically false.

Any idea about charter schools?

[CS1983]

Any idea about charter schools?

No idea. At this point I'm wondering if it's even legal to carry a CCW despite having a state issued ID saying I can lol. [facepalm]

[MarkCO]

Any idea about charter schools?

Charter schools are still considered to be public schools under the law.

https://www.cde.state.co.us/cdechart

[Rucker61]

Charter schools are still considered to be public schools under the law.

https://www.cde.state.co.us/cdechart

Thanks.

[GilpinGuy]

Ok, so how about private pre-schools. Been carrying at one for a year and a half when, I drop off/pick up my daughter. Am I a criminal now?

[CS1983]

Ok, so how about private pre-schools. Been carrying at one for a year and a half when, I drop off/pick up my daughter. Am I a criminal now?


The laws are so convoluted and ill-conceived that, undoubtedly, everyone is a technical felon. This is at least one sign of a bad society prepped for collapse.

[cstone]

Given the total number of laws on the books, we are all criminals. We just need to avoid the conviction.

[JackRyan]

Ok, so how about private pre-schools. Been carrying at one for a year and a half when, I drop off/pick up my daughter. Am I a criminal now?


If you remain in your car you are ok? Otherwise has to be locked in vehicle.

[bnolsen]

One thing: if he screws up, gets caught and charged with a felony he's a criminal and the laws really don't apply anymore. If you can't legal(istic)ally carry but you do so because it's morally right, constitutionally protected and its your God given right and responsibility to defend yourself and get caught what will they do? Charge you with another felony?? Throw you in prison to take up space that a real criminal should be taking up?? I thought our government was to be afraid of us, not the other way around?

Btw thanks for the legal info earlier in the thread, it helps with clarification and of course the insanity of it all...we know exactly where the terrorists/attention begging mass murderers will want to do their work.

Utah has it right here. You can open carry at a school if you like. Unfortunately to get around the federal school make-everyone-a-felon law you must have a CC permit in Utah to do it. Of course Utah is insane and dangerous since they keep on having all these school shootings...