Any COAR instructors doing CCW classes in the next 2 months or so?

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Ideally on somewhere in the W or NW suburbs....



Edit: This would be a 10 yr renewal, if that makes a difference, which I understand it does not.

[William]

Chad and I could do it up there if we can get a minimum of 6 people. We charge $85 for a 3 hour class but could give a small forum discount.

[funkymonkey1111]

Check RW. Has a class going today. Seems to be at least once a month

Rob Pincus has been out at Bristlecone

[rustycrusty]

Read the laws and understand what constitutes a 'CCW class'

A $20 entry to a shooting competition will get you more practical gun handling and meaningful 'training' than every classroom CCW class I have seen.

Also, a quick google search will allow you to read ALL of the information presented in the typical NRA Basic Pistol rebranded as a 'CCW Class'

http://www.savetheguns.com/firearms_101.htm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChadAmberg]

Read the laws and understand what constitutes a 'CCW class'

A $20 entry to a shooting competition will get you more practical gun handling and meaningful 'training' than every classroom CCW class I have seen.

Also, a quick google search will allow you to read ALL of the information presented in the typical NRA Basic Pistol rebranded as a 'CCW Class'


The thing about CCW is, its not even 1% about actual shooting. It's 99% about the laws, where you can carry, rules on this and that, then all the practical stuff. Gunbelts, flying with a gun, going to different states, what holsters work and don't, current options in weapons and ammo, and a million other practical matters that you will have to know and deal with every single day, where hopefully you'll never have to ever fire your gun in a self defense situation.

[ray1970]

Time out.

You mean to tell me every ten years I have to take a class?

[rustycrusty]

The thing about CCW is, its not even 1% about actual shooting. It's 99% about the laws, where you can carry, rules on this and that, then all the practical stuff. Gunbelts, flying with a gun, going to different states, what holsters work and don't, current options in weapons and ammo, and a million other practical matters that you will have to know and deal with every single day, where hopefully you'll never have to ever fire your gun in a self defense situation.

I can't agree with you on 99% about legal. I see it as 2 separate fights. One will kill you, the next one will leave you in prison forever. Those are almost equally important to me. I have to say that living without terrible injury wins by a little. I also don't believe that ALL of the above can be covered in a meaningful way in a 3 hour class. It forces so many sweeping statements that it hurts many people. I hear far too many people coming to me spouting the craziest BS that their initial instructor told them because it was the safest (for the instructor) way of covering a topic. NRA basic pistol content is covered in a website I posted- it IS 8 hours of content... it doesn't cover law AT ALL.

There is a reason why entire books are written about what constitutes a good shoot. Pointing people towards those resources is great- but I must say that I've never even seen that done in the fly by night 'instant CCW' class.

For folks who are set on ONLY doing bare minimum to qualify- GO SHOOT AN IDPA MATCH- it will raise more questions and bring to light more relevant problems than any general (and I am excluding single issue law lectures here) classroom half day class.

If you are interested in getting the training- great. Take a shooting class, take a contact shooting class that covers some BJJ and wrestling. While you are doing that, research law for yourself, READ (Mossad Ayoob is where I would start) and THEN maybe think about attending issue specific legal stuff.

If you want to 'learn enough in a one day class' YOU WON'T

(Edit: learn enough to effectively defend yourself with a gun and know the legal limits)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rustycrusty]

Also- disclaimer- I am in no way trying to suggest that there is no worth to the 'instant CCW' format. It is valuable to people who want to dip their toes in the water, and for people who simply won't do the training- you still have rights, if this is more desirable than a competition shoot- great option.

I also don't believe that a class should be required by law. My rights are my rights




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChadAmberg]

I can't agree with you on 99% about legal. I see it as 2 separate fights. One will kill you, the next one will leave you in prison forever. Those are almost equally important to me. I have to say that living without terrible injury wins by a little. I also don't believe that ALL of the above can be covered in a meaningful way in a 3 hour class. It forces so many sweeping statements that it hurts many people. I hear far too many people coming to me spouting the craziest BS that their initial instructor told them because it was the safest (for the instructor) way of covering a topic. NRA basic pistol content is covered in a website I posted- it IS 8 hours of content... it doesn't cover law AT ALL.

There is a reason why entire books are written about what constitutes a good shoot. Pointing people towards those resources is great- but I must say that I've never even seen that done in the fly by night 'instant CCW' class.

For folks who are set on ONLY doing bare minimum to qualify- GO SHOOT AN IDPA MATCH- it will raise more questions and bring to light more relevant problems than any general (and I am excluding single issue law lectures here) classroom half day class.

If you are interested in getting the training- great. Take a shooting class, take a contact shooting class that covers some BJJ and wrestling. While you are doing that, research law for yourself, READ (Mossad Ayoob is where I would start) and THEN maybe think about attending issue specific legal stuff.

If you want to 'learn enough in a one day class' YOU WON'T

(Edit: learn enough to effectively defend yourself with a gun and know the legal limits)

I might have phrased it badly, but it wasn't 99% just legal, I was referring to most of what someone who is looking to carry is the legal and practical and holsters and everything else about carrying on a daily basis. Of course shooting practice is important, however more people get into trouble carrying not by being a bad shot, but by doing something else wrong, like showing up with a gun in carryon baggage, going to NY or NJ, etc.

Of course NRA basic pistol doesn't cover the law, it can't, there's way too many jurisdictions to be useful, and it's not designed to do that. Of course, in Colorado, you can get a permit with hunter safety card.

BTW: I'm a certified instructor, and I wrote a book on concealed carry.

[rustycrusty]

Hey, I'm a certified instructor too. We are a dime a dozen these days.
The standard is so low that I won't use it as a measure of knowledge or authority. Im sure you have seen how shallow and scummy the pond is at the edges.
It's like saying 'I'm a cop, of course I'm a great shot'.
Some of us are great. Some of us are shit.

I agree with your assessments- learning what commonly gets people in trouble is important. Learning options for holsters and what to watch for is important. Learning how not to shoot yourself or others unintentionally, and how to keep a gun in a fight is typically where i start

I do this to avoid feeding into the commonly held assumptions that if you can carry a gun and go to 'shooting practice' you can fight with a gun. I also purposely draw attention to the sweeping statements that are instructor red flags -

'99% of CCW is this'

'this is the only thing you need to worry about'

Also I am cautious about structuring a class as a 'frequently asked questions' presentation. To assume that to just give people the answers to the limited questions that they have is dangerous. As instructors, it is also important to make people ask themselves questions they never considered.

Also- I don't believe you can get a CCW in Colorado with only a hunters safety. Pistol specific class is required.

https://www.denvergov.org/content/denvergov/en/police-department/programs-services/concealed-weapons-permits.html

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/8760558c9b0a6a7379d0a34ee03cb269.jpg

This highlights how broad the term 'certified instructor' is in the world of firearms. I don't doubt that you are effective in what you teach. I have no way of knowing that what you teach is effective (not an attack- I just don't know). I can tell you right now, I bet that what you teach and what I teach have very little overlap. This isn't because one of us is wrong. It's because the subject matter is extremely diverse.

People have no idea how murky the water is in the 'instructors community'.
I always want people to ask more questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk