View Full Version : Random guy from Armslist wants to do a deal without an FFL...
Kraven251
10-06-2016, 11:55
So I have listed a couple firearms I am selling in various places, and I get a hit from a guy in Denver that wants to meet up for a sale.
He gets all weird on me when I say we can meet somewhere if you want to examine the firearm, but any sale or transfer will have to be done through an FFL. I hate that shit. I don't know you, I am not breaking any state laws for you, no matter how dumb I think they are in reality. I don't need the hassle or the headache, and I would suspect they wouldn't want it either.
I am just random guy on the internet, who says I'm not law enforcement trying to bust you on this shit. Nope, not playing.[fail]
hurley842002
10-06-2016, 12:05
Nothing new here...
Whole lot of nope with that.
Wear asbestos gloves when examining it..
Zundfolge
10-06-2016, 12:21
The official position of this forum is to obey the law so there's really no point in even discussing it here.
Great-Kazoo
10-06-2016, 12:44
The official position of this forum is to obey the law so there's really no point in even discussing it here.
Should be end of this thread.
So I have listed a couple firearms I am selling in various places, and I get a hit from a guy in Denver that wants to meet up for a sale.
He gets all weird on me when I say we can meet somewhere if you want to examine the firearm, but any sale or transfer will have to be done through an FFL. I hate that shit. I don't know you, I am not breaking any state laws for you, no matter how dumb I think they are in reality. I don't need the hassle or the headache, and I would suspect they wouldn't want it either.
He's am just random guy on the internet, who says he's not law enforcement trying to bust you on this shit. Nope, not playing.[fail]
FTFY
I don't understand why people are totally ok about breaking one law but consider it an insult to be asked to break another
BushMasterBoy
10-06-2016, 13:27
I broke all the laws and survived the crooked lawmakers and their supporters.
Zundfolge
10-06-2016, 13:29
Thing is I seriously doubt that folk asking for FTF on Armslist are setting you up for stings.
I'd put the percentages as follows:
85% Otherwise law abiding gun owner fed up with the stupid law and knows that most LEOs in state have outright stated they won't enforce the law and this is their act of civil disobedience.
10% Criminal looking to get around BGC.
4.9% "Journalist" or anti 2A activist setting up sting.
.1% Cop setting up sting.
But it's really a moot point because:
The official position of this forum is to obey the law so there's really no point in even discussing it here.
Ironic thing is that more and more dealers are refusing to do transfers do due tougher laws and fees. Wont be long before most transaction are done in back alleys...Just saying.
Ironic thing is that more and more dealers are refusing to do transfers do due tougher laws and fees. Wont be long before most transaction are done in back alleys...Just saying.
This bugs me. I dumped so much money buying guns at The Shootist in Englewood that I'd see when I came in to do a transfer. Once they upped their fees (almost double iirc) I stopped going and barely buy anything from them. Have decent prices, and do whatever the fuck you need to get idiots like me with poor self control into the door.
Grant H.
10-06-2016, 13:46
I don't understand why people are totally ok about breaking one law but consider it an insult to be asked to break another
I know several people who have bought magazines, that hold more than 15 rnds, since the law change, and yet are all shocked and offended when someone suggests transferring a firearm without a BCG.
But, the rules here are no breaking the law. So no more talking about that.
Martinjmpr
10-06-2016, 15:11
I know several people who have bought magazines, that hold more than 15 rnds, since the law change, and yet are all shocked and offended when someone suggests transferring a firearm without a BCG.
Seems to me there's a pretty big difference between knowingly and deliberately violating the law yourself on the one hand, and having a complete stranger ask you to break the law on his behalf on the other.
I can see why a person would get bent out of shape over the latter even if they were OK with the former.
Martinjmpr
10-06-2016, 15:17
Thing is I seriously doubt that folk asking for FTF on Armslist are setting you up for stings.
I'd put the percentages as follows:
85% Otherwise law abiding gun owner fed up with the stupid law and knows that most LEOs in state have outright stated they won't enforce the law and this is their act of civil disobedience.
10% Criminal looking to get around BGC.
4.9% "Journalist" or anti 2A activist setting up sting.
.1% Cop setting up sting.
The problem with that analysis is that it presumes that the only negative consequence to selling in violation of the BGC law is either getting "outed" by a journalist or getting busted by the cops in a sting.
I can think of at least one other negative consequence: The gun you sold in the parking lot is then used in a crime or a suicide and when the cops trace the serial number it comes back to you. If the records show that you possessed the gun after the BGC law went into effect (say you bought the gun in December 2013 and filled out a 4473 with that date) you're going to have some 'splainin' to do.
milwaukeeshaker
10-06-2016, 15:24
Not trying to start any hassles, but do you really think that law enforcement has the time for these type of piddly setups?
So I have listed a couple firearms I am selling in various places, and I get a hit from a guy in Denver that wants to meet up for a sale.
He gets all weird on me when I say we can meet somewhere if you want to examine the firearm, but any sale or transfer will have to be done through an FFL. I hate that shit. I don't know you, I am not breaking any state laws for you, no matter how dumb I think they are in reality. I don't need the hassle or the headache, and I would suspect they wouldn't want it either.
I am just random guy on the internet, who says I'm not law enforcement trying to bust you on this shit. Nope, not playing.[fail]
Scanker19
10-06-2016, 15:38
I never do a transfer when I do a private sale. ;)
I never do a transfer when I do a private sale. ;)
Which is why NM is so much more unsafe than CO... [Sarcasm2]
The problem with that analysis is that it presumes that the only negative consequence to selling in violation of the BGC law is either getting "outed" by a journalist or getting busted by the cops in a sting.
I can think of at least one other negative consequence: The gun you sold in the parking lot is then used in a crime or a suicide and when the cops trace the serial number it comes back to you. If the records show that you possessed the gun after the BGC law went into effect (say you bought the gun in December 2013 and filled out a 4473 with that date) you're going to have some 'splainin' to do.
And the seller owns those consequences without reward.
The BGC can be done for $~15 last time I checked. No biggie. Peace of mind for seller and buyer. I can't remember the last time I had wait more than 20 minutes.
(I'm already on the list anyway. So are you.)
spqrzilla
10-06-2016, 16:23
Not trying to start any hassles, but do you really think that law enforcement has the time for these type of piddly setups?
Law enforcement don't have time. Until the day someone wants to see some of that sweet sweet Bloomberg money and finds the time, and you just happened to be the target.
Then they have time.
You can't predict when some DA decides to make his bones with the gun control folk. That's why the whole "No LEO cares" line is horse manure.
thvigil11
10-06-2016, 16:54
I never do a transfer when I do a private sale. ;)
You weren't the guy busted selling stolen XD's on Jasonsguns, were you? [Poke]
http://www.koat.com/news/dad-outsmarts-thief-to-recover-sons-stolen-gun/41985660
Law enforcement don't have time. Until the day someone wants to see some of that sweet sweet Bloomberg money and finds the time, and you just happened to be the target.
Then they have time.
You can't predict when some DA decides to make his bones with the gun control folk. That's why the whole "No LEO cares" line is horse manure.
They certainly had the time to devote 2 month Undercover work to 5 grams of weed and 2 morphine pills. lol
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/police-officer-posed-burger-king-142700957.html
Scanker19
10-06-2016, 17:02
You weren't the guy busted selling stolen XD's on Jasonsguns, were you? [Poke]
http://www.koat.com/news/dad-outsmarts-thief-to-recover-sons-stolen-gun/41985660
No, I don't like XDs....
also surprise surprise a theif is let off easy in ABQz
thvigil11
10-06-2016, 17:07
No, I don't like XDs....
also surprise surprise a their is let off easy in ABQz
At least he wasn't illegally camping. [Peep]
Sorry to take this thread off course. I'd say "obey all the laws!"
Truth is, I've done many deals. As with anything, you gotta stick with your gut. If it feels the least bit wonky, chances are, it's wonky.
milwaukeeshaker
10-06-2016, 17:21
Good on you, it's none of their business anyway.
I never do a transfer when I do a private sale. ;)
I someone asks me to do a sale "off the books" I just assume it's because they're a shady character and can't pass the background check so I politely tell them to go pound sand up their ass and move along.
hurley842002
10-06-2016, 18:26
I someone asks me to do a sale "off the books" I just assume it's because they're a shady character and can't pass the background check so I politely tell them to go pound sand up their ass and move along.
Same here, a "sting" rarely comes to mind. I've never had anyone flat out ask to do a deal sans BGC, but I've had several cease communication once I ask which FFL they'd like to use for the transfer (even tho my ads state FFL will be used).
ETA: I've never had issues here, only on Armslist.
Stevensje
10-06-2016, 19:24
Thing is I seriously doubt that folk asking for FTF on Armslist are setting you up for stings.
I'd put the percentages as follows:
99.5% Otherwise law abiding gun owner fed up with the stupid law and knows that most LEOs in state have outright stated they won't enforce the law and this is their act of civil disobedience.
.4% Criminal looking to get around BGC.
.05% journalist" or anti 2A activist setting up sting.
.05% Cop setting up sting.
But it's really a moot point because:
fixed it. We don't get out of Colorado enough, the brain washing has started. Colorado is turning into California, home of sheeple. Paranoia. Go visit a free state and buy the firearm you always wanted! I would love to have a .357 revolver.[Viking]
Zundfolge
10-06-2016, 21:09
We don't get out of Colorado enough, the brain washing has started. Colorado is turning into California, home of sheeple.
I don't have much hope for Colorado ... and its not the polls or political analysis its the people on our side.
To be fair I don't have much hope for America or Western Civilization either ... we've abandoned everything that made us great just to get laid or high or be able to sleep in on Sunday.
And to be honest, your correction of my figures is more in line with what I originally typed before I hit post ... I just figured I'd have to argue with a bunch of nay-sayers that think its just bangers and felons that want to avoid the BGC.
GilpinGuy
10-06-2016, 21:47
Anyone ever see any stats out there that show firearm related crime stats for pre-bullshit laws vs. post-bullshit laws in CO? It would be interesting to see.
My guess is that there be practically no change at all. Yay! More government interference in our lives and less money in our pockets for nothing.
Not trying to start any hassles, but do you really think that law enforcement has the time for these type of piddly setups?
It’s my experience that some ignoring of the law occurs at virtually every FFL in regards to the BGC law. This is my pet peeve when everybody talks about always following the letter of the BGC law. Then I bring up the following section of the state statute about only being able to charge a maximum fee of $10 to do a transfer. I usually get the proverbial they took that out of the law. So just now before posting this post I went to the state web site to copy the section below. I keep a printed copy of the law with me. I have even been told to get out of there shop. It reminds me of confronting a liberal with the facts of an issue and they have no rebuttal so they either shout you down or walk away. I only bring it up to make a point and I don’t believe $10 would cover their expenses.
SECTION 1. Colorado Revised Statutes, 18-12-112 as
follows:
18-12-112. Private firearms transfers - background check
required - penalty - definitions.
2 (d) A LICENSED GUN DEALER MAY CHARGE A FEE FOR SERVICES
RENDERED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION, WHICH FEE SHALL NOT EXCEED TEN
DOLLARS.
It’s my experience that some ignoring of the law occurs at virtually every FFL in regards to the BGC law. This is my pet peeve when everybody talks about always following the letter of the BGC law. Then I bring up the following section of the state statute about only being able to charge a maximum fee of $10 to do a transfer. I usually get the proverbial they took that out of the law. So just now before posting this post I went to the state web site to copy the section below. I keep a printed copy of the law with me. I have even been told to get out of there shop. It reminds me of confronting a liberal with the facts of an issue and they have no rebuttal so they either shout you down or walk away. I only bring it up to make a point and I don’t believe $10 would cover their expenses.
SECTION 1. Colorado Revised Statutes, 18-12-112 as
follows:
18-12-112. Private firearms transfers - background check
required - penalty - definitions.
2 (d) A LICENSED GUN DEALER MAY CHARGE A FEE FOR SERVICES
RENDERED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION, WHICH FEE SHALL NOT EXCEED TEN
DOLLARS.
In my experience they charge their pre-"law" transfer fee+the "state" $10.
This goes back to my idea on itemizing every single damnable tax aspect of a sale for anything, everywhere so folks' $5 burger is shown to actually be $3 or whatever it would be if the .gov didn't tax like crazy. People have no idea how much they pay in taxes in total, from "income"(which should not be one's basic wage) to everything else.
I'm reading a trilogy by Walter Macken about Ireland, which traces from the time of the Cromwellian invasion of Ireland to after the 1916 rebellion. Frankly, I see no substantial difference in how the Irish were treated by the English and how we are treated as "citizens". And moreover, I see no real difference in treatment our National ancestors received from the King of England which sparked this whole failed experiment to begin with. We threw off one tyrant for many.
Kraven251
10-07-2016, 09:22
Well, they did come back to agree to do the BGC, but I discovered why they were hesitant. let's just put it that they were fairly gender fluid and I guess they have found the gun shop crowds not super receptive to them, but the guys at Iron Horse in Parker did no issues and no problems.
Grant H.
10-07-2016, 10:51
Seems to me there's a pretty big difference between knowingly and deliberately violating the law yourself on the one hand, and having a complete stranger ask you to break the law on his behalf on the other.
I can see why a person would get bent out of shape over the latter even if they were OK with the former.
I understand the point you are making, but I was referring to people I know who have heard that a firearm was transferred (they weren't involved) and then they went off about breaking the law, while I know for a fact that they have purchased magazines that don't follow the laws...
I personally don't care what someone else does, as long as it doesn't affect me directly. It makes my life much simpler.
Zundfolge
10-07-2016, 10:57
Anyone ever see any stats out there that show firearm related crime stats for pre-bullshit laws vs. post-bullshit laws in CO? It would be interesting to see.
My guess is that there be practically no change at all. Yay! More government interference in our lives and less money in our pockets for nothing.
You assume that the purpose of universal background checks is reduction in crime. Its not. its about a reduction in gun ownership and thus less people politically opposed to gun control or at the very least inconvenience people who engage in "wrong think" (counting coup in the culture war).
Martinjmpr
10-07-2016, 11:52
I understand the point you are making, but I was referring to people I know who have heard that a firearm was transferred (they weren't involved) and then they went off about breaking the law, while I know for a fact that they have purchased magazines that don't follow the laws...
I personally don't care what someone else does, as long as it doesn't affect me directly. It makes my life much simpler.
Yeah, that's how I would react as well. If I choose to follow the law or not, it's my choice. I have no concern about what someone else does or doesn't do WRT the law. I would imagine that this particular law is violated all the time, especially when it comes to transfers between family members or acquaintances but that's really none of my concern.
People on here own GUNS? [panic][panic][panic]
[beatdeadhorse]
Comply publicly, do Whatever-the-hell-you-want privately, and [B]KEEP IT PRIVATE.
KevDen2005
10-07-2016, 14:31
probably not LE, but I would assume some type of journalist or media trying to get a "big story."
KevDen2005
10-07-2016, 14:32
Although the law is extremely stupid it is probably best to follow (That's my disclaimer)
Met a guy at the local BWW bar, turns out we had a mutual friend. He found out I had a 77/44 for sale, he offered an extra $100 over my asking price if we could do it off the books. I told him I'd be happy to pay the fees, he got real quiet and the conversation ended. I know he's not a cop, I assume he was unable to buy due to previous law issues (it's usually domestic violence). Nobody buys a 77/44 to go postal, your shoulder would fall off first.
kidicarus13
10-11-2016, 12:38
I assume he was unable to buy due to previous law issues (it's usually domestic violence).
I assume he just doesn't agree with the CO background check law.
Met a guy at the local BWW bar, turns out we had a mutual friend. He found out I had a 77/44 for sale, he offered an extra $100 over my asking price if we could do it off the books. I told him I'd be happy to pay the fees, he got real quiet and the conversation ended. I know he's not a cop, I assume he was unable to buy due to previous law issues (it's usually domestic violence). Nobody buys a 77/44 to go postal, your shoulder would fall off first.
Am I understanding you correctly when you write that a friend of a friend, who may not be legal to possess a firearm in Colorado, approached you and offered you a premium price in order to break the law?
Grant H.
10-11-2016, 13:45
Wow, considering the policy of this board, I'm amazed this thread is still going on.
Even if you know of transfers happening that are not legal, don't discuss it here.
Unless you know that Mr. Purchaser intends to go hurt people with it, just ignore it.
Great-Kazoo
10-11-2016, 13:50
Met a guy at the local BWW bar, turns out we had a mutual friend. He found out I had a 77/44 for sale, he offered an extra $100 over my asking price if we could do it off the books. I told him I'd be happy to pay the fees, he got real quiet and the conversation ended. I know he's not a cop, I assume he was unable to buy due to previous law issues (it's usually domestic violence). Nobody buys a 77/44 to go postal, your shoulder would fall off first.
Depending on price and availability. I'd be happy to do a BG check for my new rifle.
Well post #33 cleared up the original issue and I thank the OP for providing the follow up information.
There are many reasons why someone may be hesitant about compliance with the current BGC law in Colorado. Some of those reasons may include criminal behavior while many more reasons may have nothing to do with criminal behavior.
As I hope has been made perfectly clear to all members, this board and the staff responsible for moderating the board does not condone and will not tolerate posts by members who advocate the violation of the law. With that said, this thread seems to have run it's course. If there are other specific issues members would like to discuss relating to BGC issues, please begin a new thread.
Be safe.
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