View Full Version : Convince Not To Move Into the Belly of The Beast.
ZERO THEORY
10-17-2016, 18:29
Being offered a $100K job in Sacramento. But as I understand it, ARs are about to be outlawed completely after Gov. Brown's latest escapades. I also understand that mags over 10 rounds are going to be banned with no grandfather clause as well. So even USPSA is going to disappear. Background checks for ammo...does that include the same 10 day waiting period as firearms sales?
I'd be stupid not to take the money, right? But I'd also be stupid to give up my gun rights. Anyone here familiar with California?
Hotchef181818
10-17-2016, 18:33
Isn't that the equivalent of a $50k job here ? Not worth it for me.
Honey Badger is currently deployed there.
The money is only worth it if you use it wisely. If you can save $60k a year, a few years will get you a lot closer to retirement.
hurley842002
10-17-2016, 18:37
Like Irving said, Honey Badger is there. I was considering a transfer there, and he gave me some great info.
Also, if you're that motivated by money, it'd be worth it for you to figure out how you can make that same money here. If you're willing to go through what you consider a hardship for money, it's not much different than working harder or learning a new skill.
Honey Badger282.8
10-17-2016, 18:37
This is what the new California legal AR looks like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AagWnQlaEaQ
I got to play with one here in Santa Maria, it's cumbersome but ingenious and better than some of the other options.
fportmen45
10-17-2016, 18:39
$52608, according to CNN's calculator.
Isn't that the equivalent of a $50k job here ? Not worth it for me.
THIS! I can't type that any louder.
thvigil11
10-17-2016, 18:43
I left denver 6 years ago when I saw the direction that place was headed. Left a 90k job for a 40k one down here. Sure, the cost of living is lower, but the peace of mind I get from living in the middle of nowhere is priceless. Far worth the loss of income in my book. To each his own.
GilpinGuy
10-17-2016, 18:45
It's not what you make, it's what you keep.
Zundfolge
10-17-2016, 18:45
According to Google Maps its about a 2 hour 17 minute commute from Sacramento to Reno Nevada ... that's the only way I'd remotely consider it.
The only way I'd consider taking a job in the PRK is if it was at least 6 figures and the first figure was at least an 8.
ZERO THEORY
10-17-2016, 18:55
This is what the new California legal AR looks like.
[video=youtube;AagWnQlaEaQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AagWnQlaEaQ[video]
I got to play with one here in Santa Maria, it's cumbersome but ingenious and better than some of the other options.
How's the other outdoor recreation? Can you at least camp and go wheeling without having the state up your ass?
kidicarus13
10-17-2016, 19:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AagWnQlaEaQ
Not in my lifetime.
The most important fact is $52K Denver is $100K in Sacramento, that is all the info you need.
ZERO THEORY
10-17-2016, 19:09
Isn't that the equivalent of a $50k job here ? Not worth it for me.
$52608, according to CNN's calculator.
THIS! I can't type that any louder.
Not in my lifetime.
The most important fact is $52K Denver is $100K in Sacramento, that is all the info you need.
I tried the CNN Money calculator. Denver and Sacramento are almost the exact same. $102K in Sac is equivalent to $100K in Denver, according to what I got. The rift opens up much wider for the Springs, though.
GilpinGuy
10-17-2016, 19:15
I tried the CNN Money calculator.
CNN huh? Hmmmmm......
Conversions like that can be very overblown. Most people are terrible at managing money, and could easily live on half, or less, of what they spend each year. That said, unless you're very practiced at spending money wisely, you'll soon find yourself living the same over there, just with more toys than you had here. Your happiness level will be the same though.
GilpinGuy
10-17-2016, 19:19
Again, it's not what you make, it's what you keep.
Calculate taxes (federal, state, county, city, sales, gasoline, vehicle registration, etc, etc, etc.) before relying on some calculator.
beast556
10-17-2016, 19:24
Sacramento is a crime ridden shit hole. Do not move there especially if you have kids. I have family that live in Sacramento. If for some crazy reason you move there brush up on your Español and gang signs you will need them.
If you have kids in school think carefully about this. If you end up in a crappy district you are either stuck with a bad school or have to pay for private schools.
As for the 50k = 100k thing, I don't believe it. Housing is (was?) probably cheaper here, but the rest of it is the same. Once you add heating and AC etc, it is probably even.
One more thing, hit up the Calguns folks and I am sure a member there will be able to give you the low down on Sac, and the byzantine gun laws.
Honey Badger282.8
10-17-2016, 19:39
How's the other outdoor recreation? Can you at least camp and go wheeling without having the state up your ass?
I'm only out here for a few months. The other Honey Badger has been here longer. That said, I did a year in San Diego around 2009 and depending on what you like to do there are plenty of things to do. I was big into mountain biking back then and it was great for that, still is.
Here's the info for off-roading.
http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=1170
I don't know how much you make now but I wouldn't move to this state for anything less than $250k per year. It has less to do with the cost of living and more to do with everything else. Take all the things you dislike about Denver and multiply it by 10. That said, it's a cool place to visit.
Great-Kazoo
10-17-2016, 19:41
Conversions like that can be very overblown. Most people are terrible at managing money, and could easily live on half, or less, of what they spend each year. That said, unless you're very practiced at spending money wisely, you'll soon find yourself living the same over there, just with more toys than you had here. Your happiness level will be the same though.
10 day waiting period, BG check with $$ Fee for ammo, ban on lead . I highly doubt he'll be buying more toys. Hobbies cost more in CA. There's great places hike & fish. Unfortunately he still has to work in Sacto Been 6 years since we were there. Si Se' Puede"
Again, it's not what you make, it's what you keep.
Calculate taxes (federal, state, county, city, sales, gasoline, vehicle registration, etc, etc, etc.) before relying on some calculator.
Throw in obscene tire disposal fee. REGISTRATION FOR WOOD BURNING STOVES. Fuel, COL, Health ins, and as mentioned other misc Taxes.
HOWEVER You have to do what's best for you and yours.
We've toyed numerous times with a Northern CA relocation. Today's Real Estate can net us a considerable land baron place. Then we weight what we own- what we cannot own and the answer is a solid NO, everytime.
Aloha_Shooter
10-17-2016, 20:16
I've had job offers for CA. Turned them all down. I'd have to be getting a salary that enabled me to fly in Sunday night and fly back out Friday afternoon every week to take a job there.
Double00
10-17-2016, 20:38
Born and raised in CA. Its ok if you like illegal aliens.
No NFA items there and AR's and AK's soon to be outlawed. High taxes, illegals everywhere, and a school system that will not likely paint a great picture of our country for your kids.
crashdown
10-17-2016, 20:51
How many people do you know, have you heard of, or have friend who has heard of someone who knows someone who moved somewhere they didn't really want to be for a bit more money and said it was the best decision of their life.......
EXACTLY!
I left 100k+ for 0, best decision ever because it's where I want to be.
And yes, family, kids, etc, just had to be smart about it.
IM me. I spent 20+ years there. There is good and bad, let's talk about reality.
Have we talked you out of moving yet?
beast556
10-17-2016, 21:12
IM me. I spent 20+ years there. There is good and bad, let's talk about reality.
Reality, the bads far out way the goods no matter how you look at it. Born and raised in cali.
ZERO THEORY
10-17-2016, 21:13
Have we talked you out of moving yet?
LOL. I told my point of contact up front that I wasn't a fan of California, but that I'd be interested in hearing the offer and seeing what it would entail.
I said I'd never go back to CA for anything short of a wedding or funeral. But I didn't want to ignore an opportunity like this by just kneejerking.
beast556
10-17-2016, 21:16
Google Sacramento crime rate, and tell me this looks like a good town to live in.
GilpinGuy
10-17-2016, 21:22
Something is fishy here. I thought people only moved OUT of California....and to Colorado.[LOL]
Good luck, whatever you decide.
Zundfolge
10-17-2016, 21:41
Have we talked you out of moving yet?
You don't ask this crowd about moving to California unless you want to be talked out of it (even if that desire is subconscious). I suspect on some level he knew the answer from the beginning.
The sad thing is that I suspect soon many of us here are going to be asking if we should stay in the Colorado expecting the same result.
lurchnp81
10-17-2016, 21:42
Upon moving to CA you must register all of your firearms with the CA DOJ within 60 or 90 days (can't remember which). No magazines over 10 rounds...massive changes coming to ammo purchases. Must take a test and pay a $25 fee to get a firearms safety certificate once every 5 years to have the luxury to buy a gun.
Background check fee, known as DROS fee is $25 for each transaction. Private transfers are capped at $35 ($10 to the FFL and $25 to the state).
1 purchase every 30 days allowed for buying a handgun from a dealer. (Currently you can buy more than 1 handgun a month on the private market)
The famous (or infamous) CA Roster of Not Unsafe Handguns. One cannot buy a handgun from a dealer that is not "on the roster". To name a few models NOT on the roster:
Any Gen 4 Glock, Sig P320, VP9, P30, HK45, Any XdM, Any XD mod 2, no M&P's except shield 9mm and .40 with mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator, no Colt 1911's, no FNS or FNX models, No new handgun will be added to the CA Roster due to a microstamping requirement that currently doesn't exist.
The above are just some of the hurdles CA puts in the way for gun owners.
GilpinGuy
10-17-2016, 21:56
The sad thing is that I suspect soon many of us here are going to be asking if we should stay in the Colorado expecting the same result.
Our plans are already moving forward to do just this. I love this place (the location) but man, bad things have arrived and more are on the horizon.
Great-Kazoo
10-17-2016, 22:14
Upon moving to CA you must register all of your firearms with the CA DOJ within 60 or 90 days (can't remember which). No magazines over 10 rounds...massive changes coming to ammo purchases. Must take a test and pay a $25 fee to get a firearms safety certificate once every 5 years to have the luxury to buy a gun.
Background check fee, known as DROS fee is $25 for each transaction. Private transfers are capped at $35 ($10 to the FFL and $25 to the state).
1 purchase every 30 days allowed for buying a handgun from a dealer. (Currently you can buy more than 1 handgun a month on the private market)
The famous (or infamous) CA Roster of Not Unsafe Handguns. One cannot buy a handgun from a dealer that is not "on the roster". To name a few models NOT on the roster:
Any Gen 4 Glock, Sig P320, VP9, P30, HK45, Any XdM, Any XD mod 2, no M&P's except shield 9mm and .40 with mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator, no Colt 1911's, no FNS or FNX models, No new handgun will be added to the CA Roster due to a microstamping requirement that currently doesn't exist.
The above are just some of the hurdles CA puts in the way for gun owners.
He cannot bring AR's in that are banned. Taking in to account the all engulfing NO BULLET BUTTON GUNS. GFL.
I've lived in California twice. Once because the Army made me (recruiting) and once because I was stupid of my own volition. The stupidity did come with the ocean about 200 yards out my front door, which made it somewhat worth it. Worth it in the same way that one might be married to an idiotic supermodel with a wisconsin accent -- nice to look at and not much else.
Do not recommend.
BushMasterBoy
10-17-2016, 22:28
CA is medical slang for cancer.
Ain't NFWIH you'll ever see MY fat ass there.....
I was just there, while it was fun, it is waaay too close to Lala land San Fran and you could sense and see the spillover into The Sac.
Worth it in the same way that one might be married to an idiotic supermodel with a wisconsin accent -- nice to look at and not much else.
[LOL]
I make 0m/yr work wage right now, and only way I will consider moving there is if I get paid 0.4m/yr+.
ONLY one good part about CA (major cities) is that it is much easier to find a job than here. Just from my experience.
I wouldn't take a job there if you added a zero to that figure; quality of life is more important than money. How many years are you going to stay there to make your change in salary worth it? Best of luck; whatever you decide.
ZERO THEORY
10-18-2016, 09:26
Alright, thanks for the help, all. Just needed some outside voices of reason to help keep me grounded before I did something stupid.
Would they be willing to let you be a remote worker for a little less money?
Great-Kazoo
10-18-2016, 09:38
Alright, thanks for the help, all. Just needed some outside voices of reason to help keep me grounded before I did something stupid.
The question is.. What do you want to do?
I would not do it.
Take your love for firearms out of it and do an economic analysis. What is cost of living (housing, healthcare, taxes, energy, transportation, etc...) going to cost? Factor in higher Fed taxes (run a mock 1040 if you have to) and look at your actual net increase. Is that worth it to you?
Then factor back in your love of firearms.
Asking for telecomm/remote is a great idea.
ZERO THEORY
10-18-2016, 10:11
Would they be willing to let you be a remote worker for a little less money?
Job description and requirements are such that it's 75% face-to-face interaction with clientele. Someone earlier mentioned commuting from Reno, but that's not really plausible either. Clients are stationed from San Jose up past Redding.
The question is.. What do you want to do?
This job in another location. Well-networked and chummy with numerous current people in the company, and we had discussed this very job months ago with the possibility of an opening in Washington, which I would've jumped on no questions. CA opened up first. Gonna hold out and see where they go in the next few months and hope they need someone in a more...accommodating state.
osok-308
10-18-2016, 10:25
I married a woman from California. We talked about moving out there to be closer to her family (about 5 years ago, back when the bullet button was legal too). Only reason we considered it was for a house we'd be moving into rent/mortgage free. I researched the CA gun laws and realized how much bs it really was. My wife eventually put the kibosh on the whole thing (thankfully).
Long story short, we stayed and her family eventually moved out here. After talking to my father-in-law (who lived in California his whole life), he's not looking back at all. His words were "when you live in California, you think that's how everyone in the US lives, when you leave California, you realize that no one else does the things Californians do."
P.S. yes I am responsible for bringing a total of 9 Californians to this state, but they are all pro-gun voters! So I brought in 9 pro-gunners to offset 9 anti-gun Californians that have probably come into the state.
P.P.S. you do whatever is best for you and your family. If that means going to California, then go for it, but if you look at come rates, quality of life, etc. And find its not better, stay.
Job description and requirements are such that it's 75% face-to-face interaction with clientele. Someone earlier mentioned commuting from Reno, but that's not really plausible either. Clients are stationed from San Jose up past Redding.
This job in another location. Well-networked and chummy with numerous current people in the company, and we had discussed this very job months ago with the possibility of an opening in Washington, which I would've jumped on no questions. CA opened up first. Gonna hold out and see where they go in the next few months and hope they need someone in a more...accommodating state.
Where in Washington? I lived in the Tacoma/Olympia area for seven years; I would never live in the greater Seattle area. There is a lot of that state that I really like. I still have a lot of friends there. The gun laws were pretty stable until recently. It is in flux right now.
funkymonkey1111
10-18-2016, 13:02
I lived in the bay area for a year (East Bay) and commuted to SF for work. Traveled a lot in inland California from Redding to Bakersfield. Some of California is great. It's a true microcosm of the U.S. Farming, mountains, beach,woods, skiing, culture, the works. But, there are tons of negatives (illegals, kooky laws, cost of living, etc.)
I can live where i want--and moved out of there and never looked back, and don't regret it for a second. The only thing i miss is the ocean.
I don't know if 100K there is worth 50K here, but i would doubt very seriously it's worth 1:1 as one of the above calculators referenced mentioned. Virtually everything is more expensive, from groceries to gas to parking, etc. And, you'll get hit with a state income tax and likely a local tax, too.
There's a reason so many folks are leaving.
At least it will be cheaper to register your vehicles out there.
If there was a significant financial, and possible career enhancing opportunity in a place like CA, I think you are wise to consider it. Taking it is obviously more than considering it. Kids are obviously a large consideration, and one reason I live where I live now as opposed to ID, WY or MT. With some of your responses, have you considered keeping real property in CO, lockering your guns in CO and living as cheaply as possible in CA until you get the opportunity you want? Sometimes companies promote the guy who appears to have taken a personal hit for the company as a reward in the future.
funkymonkey1111
10-18-2016, 14:01
One nice overreaching Cali law that was helpful--when you are on hold with a company they are prohibited from airing advertisements unless you consent. I recall being on hold with PG&E and they asked if i would consent to them airing ads.
Circuits
10-18-2016, 14:37
Ideal situation is to accept a job in a high-salary market, while arranging to mostly live out of market, telecommuting most of the time, and occasionally traveling on-site.
Had a co-worker who was getting silicon valley pay, who then relocated to suburban Seattle (Bellingham). His work was remote anyway, so he continued getting his base, SV-negotiated salary, while living in an area with significantly lower COL.
hollohas
10-18-2016, 16:34
I once took a job offer in San Fran. Moved back to CO after 20 months and couldn't get those CA plates off my car fast enough.
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Bailey Guns
10-18-2016, 16:48
Quite honestly, no one can give you accurate or reasonable advice without knowing a whole lot more about you, your financial situation, career goals, etc.
Frankly, if this is a good step up in the company that might lead to even bigger and better things, I'd say you'd be wise to seriously consider it. It's not like it's a death sentence. Like anything else, a little sacrifice now might pay off big later on. Consider every pro/con and give the more important things more weight in the equation. This could be exactly the opportunity you need to set yourself up comfortably in your later years.
We'll take care of all your guns and things, really! Just leave 'em with us!
thedave1164
10-18-2016, 18:47
I turned down a job paying almost $200K yr in CA
I also turned down a job making $300K yr in NY
Some things are just not worth it.
From what I've seen on television California looks like a beautiful place with beaches and nice weather year round. I say go for it.
Although $100K seems like it isn't going to go as far out there as it would here.
Depending on your skill set and your work ethic, pulling down six figures a year around here isn't all too difficult.
When I was younger everything was about the money. Now that I'm a little older things like quality of life and time off from work are more important to me. About a year ago I took a substantial pay cut and a different position within my company because I would be working less hours, the work would be easier, and I'd be home more often.
Best of luck with whatever you decide and wherever life takes you.
spqrzilla
10-18-2016, 22:22
Sacramento is not a beautiful place. And its not close to any beautiful place.
colorider
10-18-2016, 22:28
There is one place I would live in California. Ocean Beach. However, there are a few things stopping me from doing so. Absurd gun laws, the Ocean Beach area housing is off the charts expensive, I would have to work close to the area because traffic on the highways can be a disaster. The grocery, and liquor prices are comparable to the current prices in CO. Actually, liquor is less expensive and certain grocery items are less expensive. The local eateries are less expensive than CO. Lots of local flavor restaurants and no real chain places there. It's pretty cool. And DAMN expensive housing.
I do about 90% of my business in California. As a result I was looking at moving back, I grew up in SoCal and have lived there off and on for 20 years.
The cost of housing is about the same as it is here. I can buy a house a few blocks from the beach for what it would cost me to buy a house in Wash Park.
Where California starts to get expensive is the taxes. If you make $100K a year your income tax bracket will be 11% for state Income tax. Sales tax in some places is as much as 10% and vehicle registration is double what ours is. The last time I lived there I had a boat, they made me pay a luxury tax for owning a boat.
After the most recent legislation regarding guns and the tax ramifications I decided not to move back.
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How many people do you know, have you heard of, or have friend who has heard of someone who knows someone who moved somewhere they didn't really want to be for a bit more money and said it was the best decision of their life.......
EXACTLY!
I left 100k+ for 0, best decision ever because it's where I want to be.
And yes, family, kids, etc, just had to be smart about it.
How long before you are "Alaskan" and get the yearly stipend?
crashdown
10-19-2016, 22:51
How long before you are "Alaskan" and get the yearly stipend?
I think you have to reside here one full calendar year to qualify for the following year. I moved here March 2016, so I gotta live here all 2017 to get the pfd in 2018. Cost of living is so cheap here, the pfd is just gravy. It was only a grand per family member this year, but has been as high as 3k per person.
No sales tax, electric and gas are half what they are in CO, no state employment tax, houses are all on at least an acre and at least 50% of CO cost, the women here are attractive and plentiful (my wife said that), groceries are the same as CO, but we have been given hundreds of pounds of moose, halibut, caribou, salmon, etc so are food costs are lower, it hasn't even threatened to snow yet, I was even out on my boat 5 days ago, jobs are plentiful and pay well, plates for your car are half what CO costs and good for 2 years until your car is 7 years old, then they are good forever, and....... I only got 2-3 mosquito bites all summer.
I want you guys to know that the reality shows are full of shit, but please don't let the word get out.
Wont even discuss guns.... they are sold in grocery stores, everyone carries, and no permit required to un-tuck your shirt.
hunterhawk
10-19-2016, 23:13
If i didnt have kids with my wife i would be in alaska haha...but i love my kids so ill stay with my wife in Colorado ;-)
Madeinhb
10-20-2016, 06:27
If you have kids in school think carefully about this. If you end up in a crappy district you are either stuck with a bad school or have to pay for private schools.
As for the 50k = 100k thing, I don't believe it. Housing is (was?) probably cheaper here, but the rest of it is the same. Once you add heating and AC etc, it is probably even.
Not entirely true. It is cheaper here. Heating and AC is cheaper here. My utilities are $300 a month cheaper here than in CA. (Houses were same size and comparable)
Madeinhb
10-20-2016, 06:38
I moved from CA to CO - 7 years ago. Like some ha e said - you are looking at total income but jot what you will actually be taking home. CA state tax is twice what CO is. Although traffic is bad here - CA is much worse. Gasoline is at least a $1 more a gallon. The gun laws are making impossible to own/have guns. Ohh and CA has gun registration. Have to register your guns there. And yes I've thought about moving back only because of family and friends. But would need to be paid in the high 100k's to even consider it. Also Sacramento is horrible. I have 2 brothers who live out there (about an hour north in the burbs) crime is bad, gangs are bad and school districts are horrible. Would need to send to private schools which then costs more. Remember starting salary isn't everything. It's how much you take home and get to actually keep.
I moved from CA to CO - 7 years ago.
Oh, you're one of "those people".
You know we here in Colorado hate you people?
[Coffee]
I moved to here from CA, but moved to CA from here. But I moved here from CA to do that. And I moved to CA from GA and to GA from KY and to KY from FL.
A home, a what? A home away from home.
All that that being said, one day we will all move 6 feet down and be taxed one last time. :)
I just heard Forbes ranked Denver as the number one place for business and careers for 2016.
Looks like staying here is your best bet.
HoneyBadger
10-20-2016, 10:07
Sorry I'm late to the game, I have been working night shifts for a while now. Most of my comments echo the comments of earlier posts, but I posted some specific numbers and examples to help guide your decision not to move here. ;)
Being offered a $100K job in Sacramento. But as I understand it, ARs are about to be outlawed completely after Gov. Brown's latest escapades. I also understand that mags over 10 rounds are going to be banned with no grandfather clause as well. So even USPSA is going to disappear. Background checks for ammo...does that include the same 10 day waiting period as firearms sales?
I'd be stupid not to take the money, right? But I'd also be stupid to give up my gun rights. Anyone here familiar with California?
Yes. I'm vaguely familiar with the place. [ROFL1] I live in one of the more conservative parts of CA, and I'm looking at every option to get my family out of here before my 4 year tour is up.
-Do you want to be able to legally carry concealed? Many counties in CA won't issue permits unless you're a politician or celeb.
-Do you like semiauto rifles bigger than .22lr? They are all about to be outlawed. They are already pretty bastardized. No NFA items allowed in the state.
-Do you like USPSA or IDPA? Both of them are basically outlawed because of restrictions on mag capacity and shooting ranges that can host these types of shooting are very hard to find.
-Gun stores here are weird. CA legislation and culture has turned many gun owners (perception and reality) into a weird sort of redneck, backwoods, uncivilized, extremist.
-The walmart that I normally get ammo from (even had some .22 at $.06/rd last week!) sporting goods employees said that they are unlikely to keep selling ammo after the ammo registration process goes into effect. Too much hassle and lost opportunity for them to bother with waiting periods and background checks. They stopped selling firearms years ago for the same reason. There hasn't been any specific guidance on it, but most people here assume that online ammo purchases will have to go through an FFL.
Isn't that the equivalent of a $50k job here ? Not worth it for me.
I love guns, but this is my biggest argument against moving here.
-Do you like eating out? It costs 30-60% more here than in Denver. Everything is taxed, and then taxed again.
-Groceries are about 30-40% more expensive here, despite much of it being locally grown. Gas is significantly more expensive. Car registration is about the same as CO (which is stupid high). Smog checks on your car are a racket... just another $35 tax on your car every year... and just one example.
-I own a 1500sqft house on a 3900sqft lot in a crappy neighborhood. My house in CO was 3400sqft on a 9700sqft lot. CO house was significantly higher quality in a really nice neighborhood. Taxes here are 32% more (and the portion of it going to schools is significantly lower) and our house here cost about 10% more. Very frustrating. Insurance (home) is a bit pricier here with mandatory earthquake insurance... and I live in an area that has never felt more than a 2.1 rattle (although Sacramento certainly has). Auto insurance is a LOT more expensive because about 1/3 of all the drivers in my region are uninsured (despite being required by law).
-Utilities: Natural gas is a tiny bit cheaper (YAY!), but electricity is more than twice as expensive, and it's on a tiered schedule, so if you use more than X amount, your rate goes up significantly. Water is predictably more expensive. Waste removal is expensive.
-HOAs In most incorporated cities in CA, they are basically required. Expect to spend anywhere from $120-300/mo on your HOA.
This is not an exhuastive list. Everything except natural gas is way more expensive here. Will your pay increase justify it and offset the other disadvantages?
How's the other outdoor recreation? Can you at least camp and go wheeling without having the state up your ass?
Sometimes. It is very location dependent. We've been camping twice and both times we encountered a lot of very weird people... Some of them were smelly hippies, some of them were the very same vagrants that CO is now dealing with. We did also encounter some nice families that were equally amazed by the weirdos.
I'm only out here for a few months. The other Honey Badger has been here longer. That said, I did a year in San Diego around 2009 and depending on what you like to do there are plenty of things to do. I was big into mountain biking back then and it was great for that, still is.
Here's the info for off-roading.
http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=1170
I don't know how much you make now but I wouldn't move to this state for anything less than $250k per year. It has less to do with the cost of living and more to do with everything else. Take all the things you dislike about Denver and multiply it by 10. That said, it's a cool place to visit.
See emphasis above.
No NFA items there and AR's and AK's soon to be outlawed. High taxes, illegals everywhere, and a school system that will not likely paint a great picture of our country for your kids.
The schools here are the heaviest issue and the biggest reason we are trying to get out of the state. Schools are awful (and ours are overrun with Hispanics, a strong majority of which are illegal and don't speak ANY English). Private schools are prohibitively expensive on my paycheck. If we sent both of our kids to private school (we make about $95k and are pretty frugal - and the frugality is a byproduct of us moving here and coming up short every month for the first few months), we wouldn't be able to contribute at all to retirement or college savings. Definitely not ideal.
Edited to add discussion from page 2 of the thread:
There is one place I would live in California. Ocean Beach. However, there are a few things stopping me from doing so. Absurd gun laws, the Ocean Beach area housing is off the charts expensive, I would have to work close to the area because traffic on the highways can be a disaster. The grocery, and liquor prices are comparable to the current prices in CO. Actually, liquor is less expensive and certain grocery items are less expensive. The local eateries are less expensive than CO. Lots of local flavor restaurants and no real chain places there. It's pretty cool. And DAMN expensive housing.
Having lived here for a year and a half now, I strongly disagree with the highlighted statements above, I can scan and post our receipts and bills if you'd like. Yes, there are cheap local wines (and you can buy booze in bulk at Costco, hahaha), but even the strawberries that grow across the street from our house are more expensive here. I think the only produce item that is cheaper is artichokes, and the only protein that is cheaper is certain types of fish, when its in season (unless it's a bad year for that type of fish, as this year was). Beef is significantly more expensive. Chicken and eggs are way more expensive. Last year the price of eggs spiked from $1.80/dozen to more than $4/dozen for almost 2 months.
The cost of housing is about the same as it is here. I can buy a house a few blocks from the beach for what it would cost me to buy a house in Wash Park.
In what universe do you live and how do I get there? [LOL] Housing close to beach access is usually in the half-million-dollar range for a tiny old shack... and I don't even live close to a real population center! [LOL] See local example: http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Los-Alamos-CA-93436/97265_rid/pricea_sort/35.149082,-120.632104,35.134273,-120.652295_rect/15_zm/
Zero Theory,
Just remember what your priorities are. Nobody else should be defining what's important to you. If the pay difference would allow you to retire X years sooner and you couldn't ever get that sort of pay increase anywhere else, then that decision belongs to you alone. I hope some of the information in this thread helps you make an informed decision that is best for you and your goals. [Beer]
spqrzilla
10-20-2016, 10:16
If Santa Maria is going down the tubes, there is no hope for California. It was probably the last decent place to live in California.
HoneyBadger
10-20-2016, 10:42
If Santa Maria is going down the tubes, there is no hope for California. It was probably the last decent place to live in California.
[beatdeadhorse] [ROFL1]
Not to keep piling on, but the trafic in LA is rage inducing. A hole drivers, bumper to bumper, etc. My dad lives 8 miles from Marina Del Ray. It took us 40 minutes to drive that distance, at 8pm at night.
spqrzilla
10-20-2016, 14:07
[beatdeadhorse] [ROFL1]
I grew up in Ventura County FYI.
funkymonkey1111
10-20-2016, 15:20
Not to keep piling on, but the trafic in LA is rage inducing. A hole drivers, bumper to bumper, etc. My dad lives 8 miles from Marina Del Ray. It took us 40 minutes to drive that distance, at 8pm at night.
I was in LA last summer. you're not kidding--the traffic is simply unbelievable. Went to an Angels game--traffic jam from downtown LA all the way to Anaheim (was rush hour). Traffic jam coming back to downtown LA at 10 pm. Traffic jam at 6am the next morning to drive to LAX.
Traffic jam out to Malibu. Traffic jam out to Santa Monica. I don't know if there's much of a place in metro LA without traffic.
closer to OP's dilemma--have been in traffic jams virtually the entire way from SF to Sacramento.
One nice thing about Sacramento is (at least it used to be) it is a United hub, and the flights were plentiful.
Madeinhb
10-20-2016, 19:21
Oh, you're one of "those people".
You know we here in Colorado hate you people?
[Coffee]
Hahaha my wife's family is here and when you're unemployed and a job comes your way - you take it. Also pretty sure I moved here before the rush.
Double00
10-20-2016, 19:41
My kids school was five miles from our house. It took my wife an average of 1hr. to get home from picking them up. That was the last straw for her. Plus side is you can booze at the grocery store.
If traffic was so bad it took an hour to drive five miles, everyday, we'd be riding bikes.
Hahaha my wife's family is here and when you're unemployed and a job comes your way - you take it. Also pretty sure I moved here before the rush.
I think the first rush was around 95.
Great-Kazoo
10-20-2016, 22:17
If Santa Maria is going down the tubes, there is no hope for California. It was probably the last decent place to live in California.
Central CA is where it's at. BUT... jobs outside Ag and LE are somewhat sparse.
Like here in CO, CA is run and dictated to by LA, SF SD. Progressive, Sanctuary cities who give the farm away to the workers they've taken from the owners.
BladesNBarrels
10-21-2016, 08:37
I think the first rush was around 95.
Bumper Sticker "Don't Californicate Colorado" was around in the 70's
The Colorado Pikes Peak Gold Rush was in 1859 and brought 10's of thousands of miners from the California Gold Fields (California Gold Rush started in 1849)
I think it is a continuing phenomenon.
Bumper Sticker "Don't Californicate Colorado" was around in the 70's
The Colorado Pikes Peak Gold Rush was in 1859 and brought 10's of thousands of miners from the California Gold Fields (California Gold Rush started in 1849)
I think it is a continuing phenomenon.
I should have said, "First rush after I got here in 92." lol
I remember a resurgence in those bumper stickers.
BladesNBarrels
10-21-2016, 17:17
I should have said, "First rush after I got here in 92." lol
I moved here as a kid from Sacramento in 1959.
My friends there all told me, "don't brag about coming from California when you are in Colorado!"
Good Advice for different reasons now!
[Beer]
Great-Kazoo
10-21-2016, 19:20
I should have said, "First rush after I got here in 92." lol
I remember a resurgence in those bumper stickers.
80's were the bumper sticker years. There was also.......... WELCOME TO COLORADO. NOW GO HOME! ..
Also that time period had the tomato fights between CO & Tx residents.
BladesNBarrels
10-22-2016, 09:59
80's were the bumper sticker years. There was also.......... WELCOME TO COLORADO. NOW GO HOME! ..
My memory of the bumper sticker was during the voting to stop the Olympics. A few of the neighbors were wearing it on their cars:
"On November 7, 1972, in a statewide referendum, Colorado voters rejected a bond (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_%28finance%29) issue to fund the hosting of the 1976 Winter Olympics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Winter_Olympics). The venue for the games would have been spread over 150 miles (240 km), and was widely viewed as license for unbridled development. As part of the opposition to the bond, the slogan "Don't Californicate Colorado" was coined, appearing on bumper stickers and placards across the state. This rejection by Colorado voters followed a trend in the western states to blame California-style "mindless development" for the urban growth problems experienced in states like Colorado, Montana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana), New Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico) and Oregon"
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