View Full Version : Letter from Denver District Attorney on Marijuana and Crime
HoneyBadger
10-30-2016, 15:16
I thought the general consensus was that potheads were lazy, non-violent, and just had the munchies... [Dunno]
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5541a76ae4b0175cee8827d0/t/580684e5ff7c50adea98399e/1476822252561/Letter+to+CA+from+Denver+DA.jpg
OldFogey
10-30-2016, 15:38
Alex - I will go with illegals for $1000, please!
So since 2013 with the implementation of safer gun laws homicides went up 14.7%
Thank you for putting this in writing
Oh snap!
So since 2013 with the implementation of safer gun laws homicides went up 14.7%
Thank you for putting this in writing
I doubt illegals have much to do with any of that, and most of it can be tied to simple population increase.
sandman76
10-30-2016, 17:53
True numbers instead of all the percentages would make it more believable and make more sense in general.
Right. Were these per capita increases or just raw # increases? I suspect the latter.
I doubt illegals have much to do with any of that, and most of it can be tied to simple population increase.
Correct, flow of illegals has been fairly steady and I thought I saw some stuff saying it was actually down.
So what's changed. From working my previous job and this current job. Both have let me see visibly the changes. We have professional young (20-35) transients infesting fort collins/frontrange/denver. A few interviewed pretty much all say MJ for reasons to be here. Tent cities in denver were there were none before. With the legalization, there is rampant illegal grows that figure they won't get noticed, or take the risks with easier distribution.
funkymonkey1111
10-30-2016, 19:00
the sooner california legalizes reefer, the sooner these dirtbag "urban travelers" head west for warmer climes
his letter says "colorado sucks because of legal weed. don't let it happen to you--we'll take all the crime we can handle"
Confirms what appeared to me to be happening. I wish he would have also included numbers on hit and runs, I know they’re up. I’m sure there are more illegals here now, but I’m also sure there are a lot more “legal low-life’s” that have no intention of ever working when they can just take what they need.
I think studies show illegal immigration has dropped since 2009. Don't hold me to that though.
I think studies show illegal immigration has dropped since 2009. Don't hold me to that though.
I think that’s what general contractors believe as well, given the continued labor shortages.
GilpinGuy
10-30-2016, 21:54
I think studies show illegal immigration has dropped since 2009. Don't hold me to that though.
I haven't seen any studies, but I check 100's of IDs every week. The number of phony "consular cards" I see has skyrocketed in the last few years - many are so bad it's laughable. So much so that we simply do not accept any consular cards as acceptable ID any longer.
The number of Central and South American passports I see has skyrocketed as well. These aren't necessarily illegal aliens, but it says something as far as demographics.
I think that’s what general contractors believe as well, given the continued labor shortages.
I'm half serious and half sarcastic here, but why would an illegal alien go and work instead of just getting on government life support right away?
I'm half serious and half sarcastic here, but why would an illegal alien go and work instead of just getting on government life support right away?
It's very well known that most truly illegal immigrants do their best to avoid attention. Announcing yourself by signing up for government programs is the opposite of trying to stay under the radar.
GilpinGuy
10-30-2016, 22:14
It's very well known that most truly illegal immigrants do their best to avoid attention. Announcing yourself by signing up for government programs is the opposite of trying to stay under the radar.
Is that why so many vote? [LOL]
Seriously though, how many stories have we seen about illegal aliens getting "in state tuition", food stamps, driver's licenses, etc.? It seems like many don't feel all that threatened these days if they're going and getting the "black stripe" Colorado ID that basically says I AM AN ILLEGAL ALIEN - NOT FOR FEDERAL ID PURPOSES.
GilpinGuy
10-30-2016, 22:18
Back to the OP.
Just say recreational MJ was legal everywhere in the US. What would happen to the overall US crime rate?
Back to the OP.
Just say recreational MJ was legal everywhere in the US. What would happen to the overall US crime rate?
Ill play along... It would go up.
Gateway drug, leads to other drugs, crime, loss of employment, more social programs, medical problems, MORE crime and thus an overall negative impact on a productive society.
How much money would the pharmaceutical companies loose if MJ was legal everywhere in the US?
The smaller producers would eventually be gobbled up by larger producers and those large corporate producers/distributors would become the evil wealthy corporations who don't pay enough taxes. See history of tobacco and distilled spirits industry in the United States.
The power of government would be turned against the small producers who could not produce enough to pay the regulatory burden easily borne by large corporate producers. Law enforcement would focus on driving small producers out of business and a culture of bootleg pot would persist for many decades.
As a product ripe for "sin taxation" MJ would be regulated and taxed to whatever extent the market could bear. Who knows, eventually some state like Colorado could actually attempt to pass a 100% tax increase based on the logic that the proceeds would go to fund marijuana awareness and treatment programs. (See Amendment 72)
An interesting read on Colorado's MJ experiment: http://harvardjol.com/2015/08/05/going-green-an-analysis-of-colorados-amendment-64/
The smaller producers would eventually be gobbled up by larger producers and those large corporate producers/distributors would become the evil wealthy corporations who don't pay enough taxes. See history of tobacco and distilled spirits industry in the United States.
The power of government would be turned against the small producers who could not produce enough to pay the regulatory burden easily borne by large corporate producers. Law enforcement would focus on driving small producers out of business and a culture of bootleg pot would persist for many decades.
As a product ripe for "sin taxation" MJ would be regulated and taxed to whatever extent the market could bear. Who knows, eventually some state like Colorado could actually attempt to pass a 100% tax increase based on the logic that the proceeds would go to fund marijuana awareness and treatment programs. (See Amendment 72)
An interesting read on Colorado's MJ experiment: http://harvardjol.com/2015/08/05/going-green-an-analysis-of-colorados-amendment-64/
Sadly, this is good logical thinking. And they would still raise property taxes.
Also, this is why I am for a lot less regulation of everything.
I can't believe that crime would increase though as a direct result, but I am sure some may disagree with me.
Honey Badger282.8
10-30-2016, 23:14
I remember seeing a piece, I forget who it was made by, where the interviewed several folks involved with MJ in Colorado to include a long time dealer. He basically said that the legalization has had no effect on his business because the legal stuff cost several times more than his.
GilpinGuy
10-31-2016, 00:14
Ill play along... It would go up.
Gateway drug, leads to other drugs, crime, loss of employment, more social programs, medical problems, MORE crime and thus an overall negative impact on a productive society.
This has all been debated to death. When I was an underage dope smoking hippie idiot it was much easier to score weed than beer. I imagine it's the same now.
My bottom line is that I think that anyone who wants to smoke pot now is smoking pot, regardless what the law is. I just don't see hordes of people saying "Ohh, it's legal now, so I'm gonna start smoking, robbing people and go on welfare".
If it was "legal" everywhere, we wouldn't have idiots moving here - they'd just stay where they are and we wouldn't have these problems. It would be status quo.
Since minor possession arrests would basically be zero, I guess that would have a big impact on statistics too.
GilpinGuy
10-31-2016, 00:20
OP: Was this an open letter to Kali voters? Where did you find this?
I'm not accusing you of anything nefarious, just wondering.
Ill play along... It would go up.
Gateway drug, leads to other drugs, crime, loss of employment, more social programs, medical problems, MORE crime and thus an overall negative impact on a productive society.
Exactly what the Democrats want. That way, they can keep those on the Gov't welfare and get votes.
Not all who smoke pot are idiots. Some are functional potheads, just like there are functional alcoholics.
HoneyBadger
10-31-2016, 08:37
How much money would the pharmaceutical companies loose if MJ was legal everywhere in the US?
I think this is a valid question. With such a large percentage of Americans addicted to painkillers of some sort, it seems logical that the "Big Pharma" groups would take a hard hit. I imagine they are fighting legalization with every reasonable lobbying penny.
OP: Was this an open letter to Kali voters? Where did you find this?
I'm not accusing you of anything nefarious, just wondering.
Rule #1: Question everything.
I found it on facebook, posted as a picture.
Googling it turns up this:http://calmusa.org/calmcablog/2016/10/18/denver-colorado-da-letter-warns-against-legalization (Link to picture is at the end of the first paragraph)
In the news: http://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Denver-DA-speaks-out-about-Nevadas-proposed-marijuana-law-393361991.html
Other data: http://www.rmhidta.org/
I think this is a valid question. With such a large percentage of Americans addicted to painkillers of some sort, it seems logical that the "Big Pharma" groups would take a hard hit. I imagine they are fighting legalization with every reasonable lobbying penny.
No, they will simply set up their own grows and labs when it becomes federaly legal.
The smaller producers would eventually be gobbled up by larger producers and those large corporate producers/distributors would become the evil wealthy corporations who don't pay enough taxes. See history of tobacco and distilled spirits industry in the United States.
The power of government would be turned against the small producers who could not produce enough to pay the regulatory burden easily borne by large corporate producers.
Evil corporations don't pay taxes. Taxes and regulatory fees are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. Business 101.
No, they will simply set up their own grows and labs when it becomes federaly legal.
Yeah, going from producing and marketing a synthetic substance to an organic on a monumental level is pretty streamline.
*facepalm
Not all people who drink alcohol are alcoholics.
StagLefty
10-31-2016, 11:26
^I don't drink yet I'm an alcoholic ????
Yes California please legalize pot and take back your people moving here. While your at it tell New York and other states on the east coast to follow suit.
Brought to you by the "GTFO Colorado Foundation".
I will never be in favor of legalization of drugs, but it is also clear that the "War on Drugs" and the way in which most large urban cities deal with it does not work either.
This solution is one that is intriguing and one I wish more people would consider, regardless of their personal view of drug use. There is obviously more than just this cover story, but when there is no benefit in crime for those on either side, I see that as reasonable policy.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago-and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html
Interesting note from an associated photo piece on where drugs are or aren't legal that I didn't seen mentioned in the linked article;
In 2001, Portugal became the first country in the world to decriminalize the use of all drugs, and started treating drug users as sick people, instead of criminals. However, you can still be arrested or assigned mandatory rehab if you are caught several times in possession of drugsGetty
Interesting note from an associated photo piece on where drugs are or aren't legal that I didn't seen mentioned in the linked article;
Portugal decriminalized drugs, not made them legal. There is a difference. They basically treat them like traffic violations and if someone has a problem, like a health issue.
There is a giant political push (eg. multiple millions of dollars) by the Democrats to get California to say NO to the Marijuana law there. It is a calculated strategy to get the left leaning folks to go to other states and influence elections there (e.g. what happened to Colorado).
Even with full legalization in the entire US, Colorado will still be cursed with being Colorado. If you can get high anywhere in the US, would you rather move to Oklahoma or Colorado?
Great-Kazoo
10-31-2016, 15:20
There is a giant political push (eg. multiple millions of dollars) by the Democrats to get California to say NO to the Marijuana law there. It is a calculated strategy to get the left leaning folks to go to other states and influence elections there (e.g. what happened to Colorado).
if that were true CA, would become a ghost town within the month. There's millions of dollars riding on the ballot in CA with anyone heavily involved dropping $$$$
osok-308
10-31-2016, 15:27
So mj caused all of the crime? Nothing to do with the ever increasing flow of illegals?
It would be easier to read if the he could proof read it for spelling errors. Its not very professional.
It's not just illegals. It also stretches to the amount of legal people we have moving here. I can't tell you how many times I speak with people whose main reason for moving here was for the legalized weed. Correlation does not always mean CAUSATION. That being said, more people moving out here causes an increase in population. More people = more potential criminals and victims, which, = higher crime rates. I'm not stating that weed is causing increases in crime, I'm stating that increase in population leads to an increase in crime. People moving out here for the weed may cause an increase in crime. It's not the weed, it's the people that come here FOR the weed.
GilpinGuy
10-31-2016, 15:45
It's not the weed, it's the people that come here FOR the weed.
Hmmm, almost sounds like "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
wctriumph
10-31-2016, 16:07
Here is the deal with MMJ. As I have said before, my wife has a MMJ card as prescribed by her former doctor for management of her chronic pain. However, her doctor retired and her new pain management doctor has said that she can't treat my wife if she tests positive for MJ. They test her every month as per the regulation in the affordable care act. It is against the law to treat her if she uses MJ, even if legal in the state. She suffers because of it and the doctor can't do anything about it and because of the regulations in the law to deter the abuse of prescription drugs, the .gov monitors what she can and cannot use.
It is a fucked up situation.
On that note, I completely believe that crime has gone up significantly with the legalization of recreational MJ.
Somebody roll out Reefer Madness!! Throw all the hippies in jail, that's the solution!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esfKfTBGadg
BushMasterBoy
10-31-2016, 20:54
No DA's have been shot since the legalization!
http://www.denverpost.com/2008/08/28/huge-manhunt-after-da-gunned-down-at-denver-home/
osok-308
11-01-2016, 07:49
Hmmm, almost sounds like "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
The amount of calls for service I've had, solely because someone was smoking weed, is a small handful compared to the amount of people I've spoken with who have told me that they moved out here specifically for the weed. I have no problem with marijuana, I don't use it, but I've seen the research that can highlight it's benefits. I'm anti-people-smoking-it-in-public/anti-people-adding-it-to-already-volatile-situations/anti-people-smoking-pot-and-driving. As with EVERYTHING, the problem is the people who choose to break the law.
HoneyBadger
11-01-2016, 08:22
No, they will simply set up their own grows and labs when it becomes federaly legal.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/28/why-big-pharma-is-spending-so-much-money
as I said, they are spending tons of money to keep weed illegal.
OneGuy67
11-01-2016, 08:55
My agency has handled over 20 mj related homicides this year. Those directly related to legal or illegal grow operations or those suspects who moved here for the weed.
The gov's office announced recently the state budget is short $227-$300 million for next fiscal year, primarily due to medicare increases and increases for k-12 funding requirements (Amendment 23) and the slowing of the energy economy. Why do you think there are increases to social services? Possibly low or no income people moving here for the weed?
Great-Kazoo
11-01-2016, 08:56
The amount of calls for service I've had, solely because someone was smoking weed, is a small handful compared to the amount of people I've spoken with who have told me that they moved out here specifically for the weed. I have no problem with marijuana, I don't use it, but I've seen the research that can highlight it's benefits. I'm anti-people-smoking-it-in-public/anti-people-adding-it-to-already-volatile-situations/anti-people-smoking-pot-and-driving. As with EVERYTHING, the problem is the people who choose to break the law.
As it is with a lot of things. Only (IMO) the same people who supported the law (. elected officials) are now trying to lay blame on an object, rather than the person using the object.
Which i "think" may be a sign the same .gov folks will sit by when the feds / IRS swoop in. Confiscating everything (as they did in CA) under the guise of ill gotten gains. Rinse & Repeat
KevDen2005
11-01-2016, 09:00
I doubt illegals have much to do with any of that, and most of it can be tied to simple population increase.
I will have to agree. While I do see a great number of crimes committed by illegals (which has probably always been the case) the majority of citizens that I contact who are illegal (also a large number) on a daily basis appear to be people who want a better life and don't want any trouble, from criminals or law enforcement. However I would say the crime rate may have more of a mixture of things including the side effects of legalizing marijuana. And not crimes like possession, MIP, smoking in public. DUI drug related arrests and deaths have gone up everywhere significantly for one.
ZERO THEORY
11-01-2016, 10:48
So mj caused all of the crime?
Definitely not.
Nothing to do with the ever increasing flow of illegals?
I think this is a hilarious over-simplification, but you're on the right track. It's no coincidence that the minute Amendment 64 was passed, California and New York plates started polluting every lane of traffic from Wadsworth to Tower Road. And once the riff raff realized they could pay the same price to live in less congested cities AND smoke herb all day and night without legal interference, they came a flocking.
Legalizing weed won't inherently increase crime; the problem is that we were the first ones to open the "haven". As such, we got the first rush. Hopefully marijuana will be de-criminalized federally so that we aren't seen as a destination anymore. Take away the motivation for people to move and the pilgrimage ends.
Unfortunately, Denver is one of the best job markets in the nation right now, and despite the ungodly increase in the cost of living since 2013, we're still cheaper than Chicago, Boston, NYC, LA, et. al. The increase in our cost of living won't be ending any time soon, me thinks.
It almost doesn't even matter that it was marijuana that was legalized. If Colorado cigarettes completely free, you'd still have people move here to utilize that benefit. The thing is, if you're the kind of person who can reasonably pick up your whole life and move to another location just for a hobby, then you probably aren't exactly a desirable transplant in the first place. I imagine ski towns must have seen this with ski bums moving in to teach ski lessons every winter and then bum around the rest of the year.
the sooner california legalizes reefer, the sooner these dirtbag "urban travelers" head west for warmer climes
his letter says "colorado sucks because of legal weed. don't let it happen to you--we'll take all the crime we can handle"
This x1,000. I would gladly vote for a bill that gave a surf board, and a bus ticket to anyone who wanted to leave Colorado for San Diego or LA.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
This x1,000. I would gladly vote for a bill that gave a surf board, and a bus ticket to anyone who wanted to leave Colorado for San Diego or LA.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
I think you are on to something there. Why not just skip the middle men though? Start a fundraiser that straight up buys ONE WAY plane tickets or bus tickets for any Colorado resident that wants to move to California. Drop them off right in Santa Monica at the pier!
I would donate to that cause!
Did anyone see the 60 minutes segment on Colorado weed?
Pueblo was already a shithole, now so much more with illegal grow operations being conducted by cartels, Russian mafia, etc. trying to blend into the legal ops.
Worst part was Dickenpooper telling other states to, "take it slow and don't legalize yet, see how things work out in Colorado." WTF?
Did anyone see the 60 minutes segment on Colorado weed?
Pueblo was already a shithole, now so much more with illegal grow operations being conducted by cartels, Russian mafia, etc. trying to blend into the legal ops.
Worst part was Dickenpooper telling other states to, "take it slow and don't legalize yet, see how things work out in Colorado." WTF?
I thought Pueblo was a shit hole because of the meth.
And yet, if CO hadn't got Amendment 64, chances are this election would be a 269:269 tie and go to the house of reps.
But, CO is safely blue, and without PA it's a loss for the republicans from now on out. (H is getting the presidency directly thanks to '64) So yeah, lets let more D voting stoners move here before anyone else changes their laws.
Still believe this wasn't done in part, looking towards the future Hillary campaign? Otherwise it would have started in CA....
The insurance policy will have paid off greatly.
^^ THIS ^^
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