View Full Version : #CalExit
HoneyBadger
11-09-2016, 16:31
There is hope!
http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/09/calexit-california-want-to-leave-the-us-after-donald-trumps-election-win-6245665/
That massive blue block on the left – encompassing California, Oregon, Nevada and Washington state – stands out quite a bit against all of the red.
So it may not be a huge surprise that people living in that Democrat-voting block are now looking at other options – specifically, secession.
Since Donald Trump’s electoral victory was first announced, #Calexit has been trending on Twitter, with distraught Californians looking to form their own state.
[ROFL1] [ROFL2] [ROFL3] [LOL] [facepalm]
Martinjmpr
11-09-2016, 16:32
We could only hope.
Except that they really ought to move the dividing line Westward. Death Valley, the Mojave National Preserve, Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon ought to stay in the US.
Here's an idea: Make the line along the Western base of the Sierra Nevadas/Cascades.
I think we should put up a wall.
Don't tease me like that. Yes, Yes, PLEASE, yes...and take the northeast with you!!!!
Zundfolge
11-09-2016, 16:36
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/392/026/21b.jpg
Kraven251
11-09-2016, 16:39
We could only hope.
Except that they really ought to move the dividing line Westward. Death Valley, the Mojave National Preserve, Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon ought to stay in the US.
Here's an idea: Make the line along the Western base of the Sierra Nevadas/Cascades.
so like along the San Andreas fault's subduction zone :)
Honey Badger282.8
11-09-2016, 16:57
Go for it, but San Diego stays in the US. That way we keep the Naval Base and have a West Coast Port.
Portsider86
11-09-2016, 17:04
We could only hope.
Except that they really ought to move the dividing line Westward. Death Valley, the Mojave National Preserve, Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon ought to stay in the US.
Here's an idea: Make the line along the Western base of the Sierra Nevadas/Cascades.
They can keep the Preserve. It has been a shit hole since the park service took it over.
Putin is working on a deal with them right now.
so like along the San Andreas fault's subduction zone :) I could get on board with this idea.
Sadly, I've got family behind enemy lines.
Son, DIL, and grandson live west of Tacoma just outside Gig Harbor.
Bailey Guns
11-09-2016, 17:55
I'd give up CA. Push them all south out of WA and OR. A big fence around CA. Point several ICBMs at 'em. No trade, no travel...just like Cuba used to be.
Sadly, I've got family behind enemy lines.
Son, DIL, and grandson live west of Tacoma just outside Gig Harbor.
I lived in Tacoma/Olympia for seven years; I have a lot of friends over there.
Aloha_Shooter
11-09-2016, 20:26
Give 'em back to Mexico but in exchange we want the wall extended along the western edge of the Sierra Nevadas. Oh, and they have to take Amy Schumer, Katy Perry, and Cher ...
ChadAmberg
11-09-2016, 20:52
Fine.
We turn off the water, it's one thing that all our water goes to another state in the US. We won't send it to another country.
I thought they were pretty much a different country already. Seems they live under a whole different set of rules anyways.
so like along the San Andreas fault's subduction zone :)
Sorry, geology nerd hat on. The San Andreas fault is not a subduction zone. It's a right-lateral fault. Which is why LA will be a suburb of San Francisco someday.
O2
JohnnyDrama
11-09-2016, 21:41
Fine.
We turn off the water, it's one thing that all our water goes to another state in the US. We won't send it to another country.
Now you're talking. I've got family there as well. They can get visas if they want to visit. While we were observing watering restrictions they could water what ever they wanted.
No. The legal question of secession was settled 151 years ago. Once entered, the Union is indissoluble. Who here is willing to go back on the pledge they have made so many times since childhood: "one nation, indivisible"?
Texas v White
74 U.S. 700
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
I say give them Kali except for the south section with the naval base. Then we tell Mexico we will pay for the border wall in exchange for the Baja peninsula. That way we can create a sort of Florida west and won’t even miss Kali.
Fine.
We turn off the water, it's one thing that all our water goes to another state in the US. We won't send it to another country.
The Colorado River flows into Mexico already....
OneGuy67
11-10-2016, 10:17
Best idea I've heard all week.
If we could take back wa a good portion of the power for or and ca is generated there.
No. The legal question of secession was settled 151 years ago. Once entered, the Union is indissoluble. Who here is willing to go back on the pledge they have made so many times since childhood: "one nation, indivisible"?
Texas v White
74 U.S. 700
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
Party pooper...
No. The legal question of secession was settled 151 years ago. Once entered, the Union is indissoluble. Who here is willing to go back on the pledge they have made so many times since childhood: "one nation, indivisible"?
Texas v White
74 U.S. 700
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
Funny that we demand that for a nation but not couples.
Funny that we demand that for a nation but not couples.
Since the indissoluble Union is made up of 50 states, your analogy seems to support Group Marriage. Now that idea would have shocked my great grandparents. [Coffee]
Since the indissoluble Union is made up of 50 states, your analogy seems to support Group Marriage. Now that idea would have shocked my great grandparents. [Coffee]
non sequitur.
Were you making a point that it is funny that our nation of individual states is indissoluble but marriages in our country are dissoluble?
All analogies break down at some point, but if that was your point, a marriage contract has little or no resemblance to the Union created by our Constitution.
Were you making a point that it is funny that our nation of individual states is indissoluble but marriages in our country are dissoluble?
All analogies break down at some point, but if that was your point, a marriage contract has little or no resemblance to the Union created by our Constitution.
yes, an analogy is not meant to prove that beyond which it is meant to prove: granted.
That the principle of indissolubility does not carry over to applications of itself in different circumstances: denied.
What is your basis for defining marriage? If you submit to the law, there are several grounds for dissolving a marriage. If you submit to the Bible, there are at least two grounds for divorce (sexual immorality and abandonment by an unbeliever).
Secession or dissolution of the Union was attempted and opposed on legal grounds under the Constitution. The question was resolved in a court of greater significance involving lawyers; The Civil War, or trial by combat seems to have resolved that question. I hope no one is foolish enough to want to appeal that decision.
What is your basis for defining marriage? If you submit to the law, there are several grounds for dissolving a marriage. If you submit to the Bible, there are at least two grounds for divorce (sexual immorality and abandonment by an unbeliever).
Secession or dissolution of the Union was attempted and opposed on legal grounds under the Constitution. The question was resolved in a court of greater significance involving lawyers; The Civil War, or trial by combat seems to have resolved that question. I hope no one is foolish enough to want to appeal that decision.
Thinking about this...
The idea of the Union (States' Rights) offered the People to freedom to live as they choose with mutual (limited and voluntary) economic and security cooperation. This was a good plan IMHO. But they certainly didn't envision a Union where one man's election as president determines which doctor you can see, how much of your paycheck you can keep, or even if you have a fundamental right to defend yourself.
And it's interesting the see the consequences of the CW. Once secession was off the table how did FedGov behave? Did they continue to respect the states and the People or start to seize as much power as they could (Federal Reserve, Income Taxes, Prohibition, etc...)? That trend has continued, non-stop, and obliterated nearly restraint imposed by the Constitution. Look at how USSC cases are decided. When was the last time the court said to FedGov "you have no charter here?" Not in my lifetime.
So it would seem the CW was a lot more than just a referendum on secession but really on States' Right absent a Constitutional Amendment that would have legitimized Federalism on steroids.
It's gone off the rails and even with Trump's election, this system isn't fixing itself. Look at the protests happening yesterday and today. We aren't one America anymore. Looking at the EC map, we aren't even one state in most states (urban vs rural).
So why shouldn't Libs be able to live as they please and Conservatives as well? Why are 320 MILLION people forced to live under one government that decides all by a slim majority of voters? Face it, we "won" this time via the EC but demographics are destiny and the folks coming here are brining their values with them (assimilation is racist!!!).
osok-308
11-10-2016, 11:56
Good luck to them trying that. They don't even have enough water to take care of themselves. Leave the country and see how that goes for you.
I agree with much of your analysis related to post Civil War growth of federal power. The 13th, 14th, 15th Amendments represent major changes to the structure of the pre Civil War power of the federal government. Despite the right/wrong discussion about the postwar changes to the Constitution, those Amendments were ratified and I do not believe any serious discussion could take place without accepting the reality that those Amendments are a part of our Constitution. While the 10th Amendment does recognize the concept of "State's Rights" the Constitution where there is no power granted to the federal government, Article VI, Clause 2 (supremacy clause) makes the power of the federal government the supreme law of the land.
I don't agree that 320 million people are forced to live under one government that decides all by a slim majority of voters. I believe that is a choice and the reality that we now live with of our own will. The Constitution can be amended. We have 27 examples of how the Constitution can be amended. If citizens want to alter or eliminate the Electoral College, there is a way to do that. If people want to make the definition of life or marriage, or just about anything else a part of the Constitution, there is a way to do that as well.
Demographics are important but not inevitable. The system is dynamic and subject to many influences. The long term trends may seem to be totally against us but that is not enough reason for me to ignore or destroy the system that has served us so well and so many of us have pledged to support and defend. Many of the people who are upset and protesting are learning an important lesson that many of us have been living with for a long time. You can't always get what you want (thanks Mick and Keith). If it wasn't for compromise, this nation would never have existed at all.
I'd love for California to put the legwork in to that. They're sucking hard on the Federal teat already. How do they expect to survive without a federally propped economy? How will they deal with their water needs if they suddenly become downstream dependent to another country?
[snip]
While the 10th Amendment does recognize the concept of "State's Rights" the Constitution where there is no power granted to the federal government, Article VI, Clause 2 (supremacy clause) makes the power of the federal government the supreme law of the land.
The Supremacy Clause was specifically and intentionally restrained by the Tenth Amendment. That was the whole point.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The default of "powers not delegated" is to the states, not FedGov.
So yes, FedGov law is supreme but the law itself restrains FedGov from overstep.
An Amendment delegates those powers to FedGov, sure. Are there amendments for... abortion, gay marriage, drug prohibition, healthcare, education, etc. ? Lawfully these powers, and the ability to regulate them, rest with the states yet FedGov runs the show. Disagree with the softer regs and FedGov withholds your state's taxpayers own money from the state.
[snip]
If people want to make the definition of life or marriage, or just about anything else a part of the Constitution, there is a way to do that as well.
Yes, agree. But that isn't happening (see examples above) and so Republicanism has become Populism. There is choice but it rests with a majority. If you are in the 49%, you lose.
The matters lately are not decided with open debate and Due Process but by a man with a pen and a phone or a judge who offers an ad hoc definition of the word "state" to mean the United States Government. Amendments didn't get us here, elections did.
[snip]
Demographics are important but not inevitable. The system is dynamic and subject to many influences. The long term trends may seem to be totally against us but that is not enough reason for me to ignore or destroy the system that has served us so well and so many of us have pledged to support and defend. Many of the people who are upset and protesting are learning an important lesson that many of us have been living with for a long time. You can't always get what you want (thanks Mick and Keith). If it wasn't for compromise, this nation would never have existed at all.
I'm not advocating it be destroyed, let me be clear. I'm arguing that it was already destroyed and what exists now is a complete contradiction of that system.
The compromises the Founders made seemed significant at the time and were important but again the prospect of being one election away from black letter law not meaning what it says, and having very real personal impacts because of that, would be completely foreign to them. These were people that shared a values system as well. That isn't the case today. We are being told to compromise with people who openly call for genocide, cheer on Islamic terror, and demand we fund foreign and domestic enemies or be imprisoned (via IRS).
Tax freedom day was April 26th this year (I think). So we believe the Founders fought and killed over a ~2% tax to the Crown on trade income but created a system that has resulted in a 40% tax rate?
I can't fault the Founders though. They put it in black and white as clear as could be in modern language. That fault lies with us but I can't see how this continues without a lot of bloodshed. An amicable divorce doesn't sound so bad to me.
If a group is going to succeed, I would rather it be the Democrats who want to do it since it is more likely to happen peacefully for them with Republicans in office than the other way around.
Also, California grows a lot of our food, so the water issue could get interesting.
Great-Kazoo
11-10-2016, 16:18
If a group is going to succeed, I would rather it be the Democrats who want to do it since it is more likely to happen peacefully for them with Republicans in office than the other way around.
Also, California grows a lot of our food, so the water issue could get interesting.
We import a lot of our fruits & vegetables from central & south America now. Cutting CA out of the loop is no skin off my nose. ALSO the same people who advocate CA leaving are the same people who told us white racist were behind weld cty wanting to form their own state.
We import a lot of our fruits & vegetables from central & south America now. Cutting CA out of the loop is no skin off my nose. ALSO the same people who advocate CA leaving are the same people who told us white racist were behind weld cty wanting to form their own state.
This had slipped into the dark recesses of my memory. Could be useful in future conversations.
Great-Kazoo
11-10-2016, 21:13
I used to have the 10th stenciled on the sides of my hardcases on the KLR. Many crazy decisions happen when you have a plotter cutter. I called it the KLR-650-F, at least you would have recognized me. Eh?
67938
Got to love Givi products.
We import a lot of our fruits & vegetables from central & south America now. Cutting CA out of the loop is no skin off my nose. ALSO the same people who advocate CA leaving are the same people who told us white racist were behind weld cty wanting to form their own state.
I guess we can get our Avocados form S America.
On your second statement, that is true. I think Texas was talking about separating not long ago and there was a ton of liberal hate about it. I think if the liberals want to leave now, maybe we should let them before the tables turn again.
Cascadia has been floating out there for quite some time, not just due to The Donald.
There have been movements to create 2 Californias, because there are conservatives in that state that have no voice. We can't let WA go. There are too many Navy resources there that are not easily replaced.
Most of the avocados we consume come from Mexico. Many fruits and veggies come from the Central Valley, but they might miss the grains grown in the middle of the country. There's also the water issue raised earlier in the thread.
We're witnessing tantrums from a bunch of babies used to getting what they want. I think they'll just have to get over themselves.
68Charger
07-31-2017, 12:33
Haven't heard anything on this lately (until last night), but it's not dead...
http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article163629198.html
Madeinhb
08-01-2017, 00:32
Haven't heard anything on this lately (until last night), but it's not dead...
http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article163629198.html
They are morons. Obviously have no idea what it takes to be removed from the US. It's not just a vote. Wasted money.
If by some miracle they managed to pull it off, and I was Mexico, I would invade and re-claim California as part of Mexico. [Coffee]
68Charger
08-01-2017, 10:08
If by some miracle they managed to pull it off, and I was Mexico, I would invade and re-claim California as part of Mexico. [Coffee]
The way things are in Mexico now, it would be more likely the cartels that invade... then divide up the state.
I wonder if there would be any alliance agreements... silly anyway, too many people outside commiefornia would have to vote for it to pass... part of me would want to vote for, just to get rid of them... but the precident would likely mean the end of the United States.
Zundfolge
08-01-2017, 14:10
... part of me would want to vote for, just to get rid of them... but the precident would likely mean the end of the United States.
Yeah, but more and more I'm beginning to think the only way we're ever going to see a return to constitutionalism is in some regions of a fragmented, former United States. The swamp can't be drained so maybe its time to tear the entire thing down and hope that some places will become new nations built on the old US constitution and just live with the fact that some regions are going to become Marxist hell holes.
I fear that in my lifetime we're going to see the end of the United States, one way or another ... either we're going to fragment and drift apart into new nations, or we're going to collapse triggering war and foreign invasion. A peaceful Calexit followed by a peaceful Texit followed by a peaceful dissolution of the Union seems better than an economic collapse followed by a Russian EMP attack and Chinese troops on the west coast.
Great-Kazoo
08-01-2017, 22:08
Yeah, but more and more I'm beginning to think the only way we're ever going to see a return to constitutionalism is in some regions of a fragmented, former United States. The swamp can't be drained so maybe its time to tear the entire thing down and hope that some places will become new nations built on the old US constitution and just live with the fact that some regions are going to become Marxist hell holes.
I fear that in my lifetime we're going to see the end of the United States, one way or another ... either we're going to fragment and drift apart into new nations, or we're going to collapse triggering war and foreign invasion. .
Jericho.
Did anyone watch Tucker Carlson tonight? The moron that's leading #calexit was on. What a hoot to listen to this nutter.
Did anyone watch Tucker Carlson tonight? The moron that's leading #calexit was on. What a hoot to listen to this nutter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikxreo413YE
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