View Full Version : CDOT Plans For New Millage Tax Scheme
DavieD55
11-20-2016, 21:06
Talk about "Orwellian" right out of 1984. The only way this would work is if the CDOT would be able to track every place you go in your vehicle.
Where are all the funds going from the ritter license plate fee/tax...
Full Article from 9news (http://www.9news.com/traffic/cdot-looks-at-pay-by-mile-charge-for-colorado-drivers/350878509)
The Colorado Department of Transportation announced a new pilot study Thursday that will look into idea of replacing the state's gas tax with a pay-by-mile charge.
It’s called the Colorado’s Road Usage Charge Pilot Research Study.
The 4-month study will launch in December, and will look at an approach where drivers would pay a fee for how many miles are traveled per month instead of paying the state’s $.22 per gallon gas tax at the pump.
By the year 2040, Colorado’s population is expected to nearly double to 7.8 million residents, which will result in higher demands for mobility and on the state’s transportation infrastructure, according to CDOT.
“We are facing a nearly one billion dollar annual funding gap over the next 25 years,” CDOT Spokesperson Megan Castle said. "And over the past two decades, Colorado’s current gas tax has become less reliable with the spike in more fuel efficient vehicles and hybrids.”
The department said the pilot is just the first step in an extensive process of evaluating the concept alongside other funding alternatives.
“What folks at home need to know is if you have a car that gets about 20-25 miles per gallon, you're probably not going to be paying more-- or if you are, it will be about a dollar more-- or a dollar less, depending on your driving," Castle said. "For people with less gas mileage than that, they're probably going to see money coming back. and then for the cars that are very fuel efficient—hybrids, or electrics cars-- they are going to be paying."
Some of the research topics in this study include mileage reporting technologies as well as a manual reporting option; how these technologies work in Colorado’s environment and the difference in driving habits between urban and rural drivers.
“A healthy transportation system is the backbone of our state’s economy and way of life." CDOT Executive Director Shailen Bhatt said. "As the state’s transportation funding gap under the current gas tax grows, we need to explore possible funding opportunities, such as road using charging, to ensure Coloradans the mobility they need to live, work, and play.
The pilot study will begin in December and will end in spring 2017.
Great-Kazoo
11-20-2016, 21:07
The government never met a tax, surcharge or fee, they didn't like.
This is just like how you get bombarded with messages to reduce water, so everyone reduces water usage. Then because water usage went down, water prices go up to compensate. How dare any entity preach about reducing resources, only to raise prices when everyone does. Better usage of resources has consequences and both sides need to be prepared to make sacrifices to achieve that whatever goal.
That's cool. I'm going to charge them a dollar for every pothole I hit on their shitty roads. I bet they'll be cutting me a check every year.
So hybrids are going to pay more? Rofl. Awesome.
Where are all the funds going from the ritter license plate fee/tax...
I seem to recall they're going to help abused women.
This plan disadvantages citizens in rural areas.
When government pushes "green", these problems arise. More homes with solar, how do the utilities pay for the infrastructure that these same homes require for non-productive periods? Demand that citizens use less water by putting in a monthly "budget" with penalties for consumption beyond that. People use less water and those that provide it make less money, so we pay more for less to keep up the infrastructure. Push mileage limits on the car manufacturers and promote "saving the planet", and the government takes in less to maintain the infrastructure that builds and maintains the roadways. We'll end up paying more for less no matter how this plays out.
I drive 3,000+ miles a month, so a mileage charge is not appealing to me. I work all over this state, and a few others, so it's not like I can move closer to work or something.
It's OK, Irving. Disabling your odometer is easier than you think. Now, instead of 3,000 miles a month you'll be going all of the same places but put practically no miles on your ride.
Great-Kazoo
11-20-2016, 22:02
It's OK, Irving. Disabling your odometer is easier than you think. Now, instead of 3,000 miles a month you'll be going all of the same places but put practically no miles on your ride.
With most operations tied in to a computer, unhooking the wires from the sensor. May have other consequences, from a check engine light to who knows what.
TEAMRICO
11-20-2016, 22:07
What happens when you take a road trip outside CO? They gonna charge me for driving on roads outside the state?
Replace the .22 cents per gallon tax...yah right. This will be added to that tax. They will never replace the existing tax.
With most operations tied in to a computer, unhooking the wires from the sensor. May have other consequences, from a check engine light to who knows what.
Yeah, the sensor plays a pretty big role in stuff like transmission operation and shifting, antilock brakes, and even air bag deployment.
The scheisters I knew that used to kill theirs to keep the mileage low for resale would usually pull a wire from the back side of the cluster itself. But that was almost fifteen years ago so who knows how technology might have made this more complex.
BPTactical
11-20-2016, 22:18
Replace the .22 cents per gallon tax...yah right. This will be added to that tax. They will never replace the existing tax.
This.
CDOT is funded wholly by fuel taxes. No way in hell they would let a dime get past them.
What happens when you take a road trip outside CO? They gonna charge me for driving on roads outside the state?
I'm sure there will be a 47 page form you can fill out and have notarized to declare mileage not driven within this state.
They'll probably still tax you for those miles but it might be at a lower rate.
DavieD55
11-20-2016, 22:26
Replace the .22 cents per gallon tax...yah right. This will be added to that tax. They will never replace an existing tax.
FIFY
That's right. Just wait till they abolish TABOR. It really isn't about the children, our safety, helping women or helping anyone for that matter, except for themselves. What it is about though, in the overall bigger picture is bankrupting society and to create a dumbed down idiocratic pheasant class that is easily dominated, controlled, manipulated and dictated to, but I digress.
the overall bigger picture is bankrupting society and to create a dumbed down idiocratic pheasant
Pheasant. Yummy. [Dinner]
DavieD55
11-20-2016, 22:34
Pheasant. Yummy. [Dinner]
peasant that is. You know what I'm sayin. [Coffee]
buffalobo
11-20-2016, 22:38
At the end of the day it will be more taxes paid by the citizen.
Another step on the path...
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
theGinsue
11-20-2016, 22:40
If they pull is cr@p, they'd better start charging the f&ckers who ride their damned bicycles in the road that I have to slam my brakes on to avoid hitting when I can't swerve to the other lane to get the 3 ft minimum passing distance. If they're charging a "usage fee" to cover the infrastructure, everyone using it needs to pay a fair share; right?
DavieD55
11-20-2016, 22:59
If they pull is cr@p, they'd better start charging the f&ckers who ride their damned bike in the road that I have to slam my brakes on to avoid hitting when I can't swerve to the other lane to get the 3 ft minimum passing distance. If they're charging a "usage fee", everyone using it needs to pay a fair share; right?
Naw, they'll just construct more bike lanes and make them wider while making the road ways more narrow for automobiles. Then, they'll spend billions in order to install light rail systems all over the place in the name of making transportation better and more affordable.
GilpinGuy
11-20-2016, 22:59
Wouldn't it be easier and less Orwellian to simply raise the gas tax a few pennies, plus add a surcharge for the hybrids on their registration since they don't "pay their fair share"?
I'm not for more taxes by any means but doing a big ass study that will certainly cost millions and cause a big uproar seems like a waste of time and money. Oh yeah, it's government, so waste away!
SideShow Bob
11-20-2016, 23:05
What happens when you take a road trip outside CO? They gonna charge me for driving on roads outside the state?
^^^ This,^^^
I've got a ten year old truck with just over 60K miles on it, and I can guarantee that over half of those miles were put on it in the vast wasteland of the Kansas prairies getting to the KC area. I'll be damned if I will pay CO. for those miles. And I will also be damned if I will let the .gov put any sort of tracking device in my vehicle.
And as Ginsue says, the .gov better start mandating that all those bicycles have odometers installed on them so that they can pay their fair share. Even the ones that spend 90% of their time on someone's roof rack with the front tire spinning in the wind as the driver goes 80MPH. down the highway.
I want to echo what Ginsue said about the cyclist. I have love for bikes and used to ride a good bit as my only transportation. But how is it they use the roads with no tax or insurance. A plate would be nice too, so you could ID them to the police. 10 years ago or so Denver turned 6th ave from 2 lanes to one. The other went to the bikes. I know most cyclist pay taxes, many are in a higher tax bracket than me. Just seems they gum up traffic more than they should. I'd love to drive my truck on the park bike path. Fair is fair.
When Oregon tested similar program, they used a GPS based system. I remember it being complicated and tough to figure how much it was gonna cost.
DavieD55
11-20-2016, 23:13
I want to echo what Ginsue said about the cyclist. I have love for bikes and used to ride a good bit as my only transportation. But how is it they use the roads with no tax or insurance. A plate would be nice too, so you could ID them to the police. 10 years ago or so Denver turned 6th ave from 2 lanes to one. The other went to the bikes. I know most cyclist pay taxes, many are in a higher tax bracket than me. Just seems they gum up traffic more than they should. I'd love to drive my truck on the park bike path. Fair is fair.
When Oregon tested similar program, they used a GPS based system. I remember it being complicated and tough to figure how much it was gonna cost.
It is really not the fault of cyclists. The root of the problem lies between shady NGOs and such that are making the shady backroom deals with the bureaucracies and the politicians to force this crap.
Also. Making cyclists pay more or to register bikes only makes the problems bigger IMO. Takes away more freedom and complicates the situation by having to pay more to go for a bike ride. I love riding myself, but I sure as heck don't want to be forced to give more money to the politicians to squander and mismanage.
When Oregon tested similar program, they used a GPS based system. I remember it being complicated and tough to figure how much it was gonna cost.
But isn't that the best kind of tax from the Gov's point of view? Complicated and tough to figure out.
Whos to say that technology isnt already in the car? Onstar and the likes? Maybe even something thats just built in unknown by the consumer? New cars have like 15+ computers on board...wouldnt be that hard. The trick will be forcing the old stuff out but thats easy with a "cash for clunkers" deal funded by the feds.
theGinsue
11-20-2016, 23:34
Naw, they'll just construct more bike lanes and make them wider while making the road ways more narrow for automobiles.
Mayor Sutters, the RINO mayor of Colo Spr. is already doing just that. They started with Research Blvd. - 3 lanes down to 2 with a no-go zone then a bike path. The plan is to do this to many more 3 lane roads in the Springs to encourage cyclists and because "with 3 lanes motorists are able to drive 60 mph in a 45 mph zone". The idea is that if you congest the traffic, motorists will have to reduce their speeds. Um, Einstein, when you congest traffic you increase the likelihood of accidents which can be expected to cause injuries and possibly deaths. Additionally, you make it harder for emergency vehicles to reach their destinations during periods of high traffic volume. The idea of building a 3 lane road is to eliminate congestion. Idiot Mayor.
With all of that extra breathing cyclists are doing, it's increasing the carbon footprint! Stop it...for the children.
I want to know how they will charge me? I drive almost 50K a year around metro Denver. When I get a new job site to visit it may be anywhere along the front range. Some years I have driven to Colo Springs 3 to 4 times a week. Right now, I have a job in Brighton and one in Parker and another south west of Chatfield res that I’m visiting daily. I’m currently spending 2-3 hundred dollars a month on E470 tolls. Are they going to charge me in addition for all the miles I already pay tolls on? Those toll roads are currently not maintained by the state taxes.
It is going to be hard to hide the miles I drive in CO, when I deduct .55 a mile on my Fed taxes.
How do we get out of state skiers, tourists and hunters to pay their fair share of wear and tear when they visit CO with oversize campers and motor homes?
This needs to stay as a gas tax, just raise the damn gas tax rate and STFU.
I guess the price of houses will be going up in CO, I sure as hell won’t be just eating the new expense.
DavieD55
11-21-2016, 00:02
Mayor Sutters, the RINO mayor of Colo Spr. is already doing just that. They started with Research Blvd. - 3 lanes down to 2 with a no-go zone then a bike path. The plan is to do this to many more 3 lane roads in the Springs to encourage cyclists and because "with 3 lanes motorists are able to drive 60 mph in a 45 mph zone". The idea is that if you congest the traffic, motorists will have to reduce their speeds. Um, Einstein, when you congest traffic you increase the likelihood of accidents which can be expected to cause injuries and possibly deaths. Additionally, you make it harder for emergency vehicles to reach their destinations during periods of high traffic volume. The idea of building a 3 lane road is to eliminate congestion. Idiot Mayor.
Here is something that you might find interesting. Don't know if this is specifically related to your mayor and city as there are a lot of these types of programs going on all over the country.
http://www.bicycling.com/culture/advocacy/what-the-800-million-fast-act-means-for-cyclists
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/fastact/
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/bicycle_pedestrian/guidance/cmaqfunds.cfm
http://bikeleague.org/sites/default/files/lab_cmaq.pdf
Looks like my odometer will be malfunctioning
Great-Kazoo
11-21-2016, 01:02
Mayor Sutters, the RINO mayor of Colo Spr. is already doing just that. They started with Research Blvd. - 3 lanes down to 2 with a no-go zone then a bike path. The plan is to do this to many more 3 lane roads in the Springs to encourage cyclists and because "with 3 lanes motorists are able to drive 60 mph in a 45 mph zone". The idea is that if you congest the traffic, motorists will have to reduce their speeds. Um, Einstein, when you congest traffic you increase the likelihood of accidents which can be expected to cause injuries and possibly deaths. Additionally, you make it harder for emergency vehicles to reach their destinations during periods of high traffic volume. The idea of building a 3 lane road is to eliminate congestion. Idiot Mayor.
Why bother with the mayor. Contact your rep. IIRC that's Darryl Glenn, correct ? [LOL]
When I lived in Oregon they had a similar pilot program. It's not tied to your odometer, they put a GPS in everybody's car. How fun would that be in it were mandatory [Mad]
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/03/oregon-launches-program-to-tax-drivers-by-mile.html
DavieD55
11-21-2016, 09:03
When I lived in Oregon they had a similar pilot program. It's not tied to your odometer, they put a GPS in everybody's car. How fun would that be in it were mandatory [Mad]
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/03/oregon-launches-program-to-tax-drivers-by-mile.html
It's for your safety though and the greater good of the commun-ity.
BladesNBarrels
11-21-2016, 09:11
CDOT is funded wholly by fuel taxes.
21% of CDOT funding is from the gas tax.
Lots of other sources of funding: http://coloradotransportationmatters.com/progress-made/data/funding/
A tax on mileage would probably cost more than it brings in, but you never know.
HoneyBadger
11-21-2016, 09:23
So hybrids are going to pay more? Rofl. Awesome.
Yeah, that sounds like an interesting consequence. Colorado government is trying it's hardest to destroy their own economic future.
So Colorado continues its efforts to claim the title New Jersey of West.
Yeah, that sounds like an interesting consequence. Colorado government is trying it's hardest to destroy their own economic future.
Ritter did the same thing with his "fees." People bitch and I remind them elections have consequences. People will bitch about this too.
21% of CDOT funding is from the gas tax.
Lots of other sources of funding: http://coloradotransportationmatters.com/progress-made/data/funding/
A tax on mileage would probably cost more than it brings in, but you never know.
Would that stop them? Dems like to tax just because they can. Voters just rejected a state measure to exempt private groups from paying trivial amounts of tax for using public facilities. The bluebook spelled out that tax costs more to collect than it brings in. Voters still wanted groups paying those taxes.
If the government decided it would improve farming technique, they'd come up with a combine that plows crops and spits out industrial grade salt into the earth.
JohnnyDrama
11-21-2016, 09:56
Yeah, that sounds like an interesting consequence. Colorado government is trying it's hardest to destroy their own economic future.
That's the first thing that went through my mind. I can easily see fewer companies moving into the state to avoid such nonsense.
BushMasterBoy
11-21-2016, 10:08
I hope Occam's razor prevails in this case. The simplest solution is the best. Another proposal of a clusterf*%#!
Sigh...ten more long years to retirement and my escape to Wyoming!
LongArmoftheLaw
11-21-2016, 11:05
If this were to gain any traction, companies like UPS, FedEx, and all the other transportation/delivery based companies would be charged as well correct? I cant imagine that going over well with any of them...hundreds of vehicles thousands of miles per day...
DenverGP
11-21-2016, 12:43
As proposed, this would replace the current state gas tax, and if you get about 20-25mpg, then the new fee would balance out with the gas tax you were paying.
I'm more curious how they'll measure the mileage, since GPS tracking wouldn't go over well. Possibly something like a odometer check as part of annual registration might be possible.
Are there already extra fees assessed onto large delivery trucks? Vehicle weight definitely contributes to road wear, so seems like bigger / heavier vehicles should pay more.
If this were to gain any traction, companies like UPS, FedEx, and all the other transportation/delivery based companies would be charged as well correct? I cant imagine that going over well with any of them...hundreds of vehicles thousands of miles per day...
Good point... And what about UBER and Lyft drivers, Quicksilver couriers and the like? All those drivers who drive professionally would certainly feel the squeeze. And I just don't get how they would enforce it.
Are there already extra fees assessed onto large delivery trucks? Vehicle weight definitely contributes to road wear, so seems like bigger / heavier vehicles should pay more.
This is an interesting point. It would burden a lot of trucking companies. And I don't understand how they would work it with the out-of-state truckers who drive through CO- I saw at the Commerce City truck stop the other day only two that had CO plates, all the rest were from parts elsewhere.
My whole thought on this, if they implement it: "Hello, Wyoming? Do you guys have any vacancies?"
LongArmoftheLaw
11-21-2016, 13:04
Few minor adjustments and work out the kinks, but I think this would help solve the problem to an extent. Technically not using the roads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soxxPyaAT1k
wctriumph
11-21-2016, 13:28
My pockets are already empty and "they" want more! Corruption is rampant!!!
newracer
11-21-2016, 14:21
If this were to gain any traction, companies like UPS, FedEx, and all the other transportation/delivery based companies would be charged as well correct? I cant imagine that going over well with any of them...hundreds of vehicles thousands of miles per day...
They will add a surcharge to the shipping fee. It was common when diesel was $5 per gallon a few years ago.
Few minor adjustments and work out the kinks, but I think this would help solve the problem to an extent. Technically not using the roads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soxxPyaAT1k
Looks like a great way to lose an arm and a leg... not all that different from the taxes I guess.
GilpinGuy
11-21-2016, 16:40
My pockets are already empty and "they" want more! Corruption is rampant!!!
They aren't happy unless you are reliant on them through government assistance.
Out of state truckers who travel Colorado roads for interstate commerce will love this.
GilpinGuy
11-21-2016, 17:26
As proposed, this would replace the current state gas tax, and if you get about 20-25mpg, then the new fee would balance out with the gas tax you were paying.
I'm more curious how they'll measure the mileage, since GPS tracking wouldn't go over well. Possibly something like a odometer check as part of annual registration might be possible.
Are there already extra fees assessed onto large delivery trucks? Vehicle weight definitely contributes to road wear, so seems like bigger / heavier vehicles should pay more.
I'm guessing that most vehicles are in the 20-25 mpg range, otherwise they wouldn't have written that. They want to assure the majority that they won't be effected. Of course they will be effected, but assume they won't.
If this is so, why change the entire tax structure? Just impose a fee (not a tax! LOL) on the very vehicles that are getting away with not paying the gas tax (hybrids, etc.).
Oh yeah, politics. The greenies would have a fit and Hick would look bad.
HoneyBadger
11-21-2016, 17:37
If the government decided it would improve farming technique, they'd come up with a combine that plows crops and spits out industrial grade salt into the earth.
But electrolytes are what plants crave!
But electrolytes are what plants crave!
Brawndo!
If most vehicles are getting 20-25 mpg now, they've set the tax so everyone will think it will be a wash, not realizing that the next vehicle they buy, and every one after that, is likely to get better mileage, placing them square in the target market for paying more money. This is exactly what I was talking about. More efficient vehicles aren't going away, everyone knows that, yet this would almost assuredly be written to be ignored by most drivers NOW, to get it passed, then negatively effect most drivers LATER when it's too late.
newracer
11-21-2016, 18:12
I wonder how they will take in account for trailered vehicles. On Sunday my Jeep drove 10 miles on a dirt trail, 2 miles on a dirt road, 8 miles on a paved road, and rode on a trailer for 70 miles.
Few minor adjustments and work out the kinks, but I think this would help solve the problem to an extent. Technically not using the roads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soxxPyaAT1k
Probably wouldn't save any money paying to insure that contraption.
Blame the electric vehicles.
GilpinGuy
11-21-2016, 19:12
If most vehicles are getting 20-25 mpg now, they've set the tax so everyone will think it will be a wash, not realizing that the next vehicle they buy, and every one after that, is likely to get better mileage, placing them square in the target market for paying more money. This is exactly what I was talking about. More efficient vehicles aren't going away, everyone knows that, yet this would almost assuredly be written to be ignored by most drivers NOW, to get it passed, then negatively effect most drivers LATER when it's too late.
Excatly what I was pointing to also. You're a wash now, but not later.
Goverment isn't going to change a tax system so you pay less or even the same amount. It's laughable.
https://profalbrecht.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/simplified1040.gif
GilpinGuy
11-21-2016, 20:16
^^^That's awesome!
LongArmoftheLaw
11-21-2016, 20:56
Probably not...but at least it would be a good time!
So hybrids are going to pay more? Rofl. Awesome.
Yes, this seems mostly like a tax on liberals, which makes me cautiously optimistic.
Are there already extra fees assessed onto large delivery trucks? Vehicle weight definitely contributes to road wear, so seems like bigger / heavier vehicles should pay more.
This is already the case. Colorado Vehicle License Fees are based upon your vehicle's weight, purchase date and taxable value.
It's not at all a tax on liberals. It's a tax on what will be the standard for everyone in the very near future.
It's not at all a tax on liberals. It's a tax on what will be the standard for everyone in the very near future.
I'm still waiting for my flying car. Pretty sure we are all supposed to be driving them by now.
I think I'll skip the hybrids and electrics and wait for the flying cars.
It's not at all a tax on liberals. It's a tax on what will be the standard for everyone in the very near future.
Well then, I guess my plan to buy an International Scout just got more financially sound.
Studded tires afflict more wear on the roads than regular all-seasons... but they're not taxed at a higher rate (yet).
newracer
11-22-2016, 16:09
It's not at all a tax on liberals. It's a tax on what will be the standard for everyone in the very near future.
What is your definition of very near future? I do not see gasoline or diesel vehicles going anywhere for a long time.
What is your definition of very near future? I do not see gasoline or diesel vehicles going anywhere for a long time.
I think he means higher MPG vehicles.
I think he means higher MPG vehicles.
I'm all for that. I look forward to the day when a full size truck will get me 40 mpg.
What is your definition of very near future? I do not see gasoline or diesel vehicles going anywhere for a long time.
I think he means higher MPG vehicles.
Correct.
I'm all for that. I look forward to the day when a full size truck will get me 40 mpg.
Me too!
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