RAS47 or DDI AK for my first AK?

[osok-308]

I've been looking to get into the AK platform for a while now. I'm looking for a good (not elite) quality stamped AK for shooting and potential shtf scenario. As far as what I've been looking at, these are the two I'very kind of narrowed if down to. I'm curious if you guys have any experience with either if these two rifles. I really don't want a bottoman of the barrel AK. I'm leaning towards the DDI, I don't mind paying a bit extra for quality, because this will be my first (hopefully not my only) AK. Is there any other AK I should give a serious look at? The reviews I've read on these rifles have been mostly good, but I know that many reviews are biased. As far as I can tell, finding a quality AK is not as simple as finding a quality AR. Please let me know what you guys think.

[zteknik]

I would check out Atlantic Arms for some deals. Personally I'm not fond of Io or DDI. I'm sure Io probably has better qc and uses better quality by now though. As far as DDI goes for me it's a US company trying to make a com boc rifle, they cant seem to get it right. The US built ones didn't go by the commie specs, ie they used different steel and hardness specs so their not as solid the commie built ones. You can find decent ones built off parts kits from reliable builders but it's gonna cost some coin.
The only factory built ak's I ever had was a Poly legend and a mak 90, all my other aks I built myself.

[sampson]

Russian Molot Vepr

Switch out trigger though

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/fm-ak47-11-detail.html?Itemid=0

[powerstroke79]

I would stay away from IO inc. Bought one had to send it back to the factory for warranty work and got it back with bigger problems. After they sent a new rifle I gave up on it all together.

[BPTactical]

Arsenal or converted Saiga. WASR isn't bad if you can find a cheap one. VEPR is decent but swapping furniture will be a challenge due to the forend configuration and slant cut receiver.
If you can find a MAK 90 or MAADI they are decent as well.
All of the US made rifles (less the RAS47 and C39) are just kit builds from foreign part sets and as such, only as good as the assembly of the parts.
Scratch the RAS and C39, I have seen issues with them that just scream NO!

Believe it or not, some of the Century "kit build" AK's are damn good rifles. Just inspect it closely for workmanship.
I have had a slew of Kalishnakov platform rifles, pre ban CommBlocs, post ban, kit builds etc.
The one that has stayed with me is an early Yugo M70. It is a Century gun assembled from a matching numbers part set from the Croatian conflict.
It's a tank of a rifle that is accurate and smooth.

[skoodge]

US made AKs are no bueno. Think about it, would you buy a non-US made AR? Saigas are decent, try to find a converted one. I've heard good things about the older WASRs, tho I've never had one myself. VEPRs are a little different, they have a RPK type receiver that is 1.5mm thick. I have VEPR 12 shotgun and I enjoy it. Arsenal is a bit more on the pricey end; I have 2. Forewarning, the paint isn't the best (but what am paint is). But they're solid guns. My friend just bought an Arsenal SAM7. Its a milled receiver, so its a little heavier and thus will be a little tougher to find furniture for too; but it's very nice. Trigger is smooth as butter, thumb safety, solid build. It was his first AK and he loves it. For the most part, you get when you pay for in an AK. Just stay away from the US made. Head over to the forums on the www akfiles com website, there's a lot of information there.

[mutt]

AKOU has tested several AKs to see if they will make it through 5k rounds. IO and RAS47 did not do so well. While his tests are samples of one, the results seem to mirror similar reports of serious quality issues.

IO Test - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb711dtKBi0rxC5imiKYBTgXp3Dn9oItI
RAS47 Test - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb711dtKBi0r4iq_9-Y9yNsL0ev4TpNjX

Even DDI's latest all US made entry failed miserably. The only all US made AK to make it through the test was PSA's Gen2 AK.

I avoid all 100% US made AKs like the plague. I only buy combloc made AKs. After stamping them out for the last 60+ years following their TDP, I'd say old combloc factories know how to make a proper AK. Granted they can have fit and finish issues, but those rarely affect function. If you are a fit and finish freak, then AKs may not be for you =). A foreign parts kit rifle is fine if you find one that was put together properly and the price is right. If the price is the same as a comparable combloc factory made rifle, combloc is always preferred.

WASRs are great AKs and are the cheapest of the combloc rifles. Arsenals are also nice but a bit over priced considering the shit paint job they come with. Saigas are great too if you don't mind doing a little conversion work on the backend. VEPRs seem to have the best over all build quality in my opinion. Get a VEPR with a traditional straight cut receiver. They're harder to find but at least they'll take standard aftermarket stocks. I'd also hold off a bit on buying an AK. Now that Trump won, I think you are going to see the price of rifles like the WASR return to more sane levels in a few months.

[osok-308]

Believe it or not, some of the Century "kit build" AK's are damn good rifles. Just inspect it closely for workmanship.
I have had a slew of Kalishnakov platform rifles, pre ban CommBlocs, post ban, kit builds etc.
The one that has stayed with me is an early Yugo M70. It is a Century gun assembled from a matching numbers part set from the Croatian conflict.
It's a tank of a rifle that is accurate and smooth.

I know that they don't accept standard stocks and handguards, but how is the worksmanship on those Yugos? I've looked at them a bit as well. Would you recommend an NPAP to a WASR?


VEPRs seem to have the best over all build quality in my opinion. Get a VEPR with a traditional straight cut receiver. They're harder to find but at least they'll take standard aftermarket stocks. I'd also hold off a bit on buying an AK. Now that Trump won, I think you are going to see the price of rifles like the WASR return to more sane levels in a few months.

I agree fully, I will for sure wait a few months before making the purchase, I'm just getting sick of making my mind up, and then changing it 5 minutes later. Having a Russian made AK would be amazing too.


The only factory built ak's I ever had was a Poly legend and a mak 90, all my other aks I built myself.

I LOVE the idea of building my own AK; however, I'm aware that it's not the same as building an AR. Seeing as I have no experience with AK building, and I have none of the tools, required. I'll probably be buying my first one.

[SouthPaw]

The Century builds that I have had in the past have all past. I always liked to buy my AK's in person so you can inspect before buying. Next one on my list is a Yugo underfolder.

[mutt]

I know that they don't accept standard stocks and handguards, but how is the worksmanship on those Yugos? I've looked at them a bit as well. Would you recommend an NPAP to a WASR?


I've had a few NPAPs. They're nice. Metal seems to be a little softer than a real military yugo. Makes me suspect they are lesser quality commercial export guns vs those from the military assembly line. However that is totally conjecture on my part. I have no hard evidence just my opinion from comparing them to my other AKs.



I agree fully, I will for sure wait a few months before making the purchase, I'm just getting sick of making my mind up, and then changing it 5 minutes later. Having a Russian made AK would be amazing too.


Russian AKs are nice. They aren't necessarily better than other quality made combloc AKs, but it's neat having an AK from the Mother Country.

[ray1970]

I've had examples from China, Egypt, Romania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia over the years. All functioned perfectly but fit and finish varied from pretty nice to WTF were they thinking.

Honestly, if I were looking for one today, I would be keeping an eye out for a Norinco or Poly Tech. The ones I had were nicely blued and the fit of all the parts was spot on. I knew a guy that had to send one of his Norincos back because it had an extra hole and pin in the receiver that shouldn't have been there. How's that for "mil spec"?

[osok-308]

Russian AKs are nice. They aren't necessarily better than other quality made combloc AKs, but it's neat having an AK from the Mother Country.

I definitely understand that. Are there any countries (other than US builds) to avoid? I've been doing research on AKs, but it seems like every one I research has a dozen people touting it as the best, and another dozen saying they wouldn't be caught dead within ten feet of one. What makes you think the Yugo metal is softer? Just more wear?

[SideShow Bob]

WASR isn't bad if you can find a cheap one.

So, my WASR went up in value ? Good thing the member that was interested in it never got back in touch with me....[Tooth]

[mutt]

I definitely understand that. Are there any countries (other than US builds) to avoid? I've been doing research on AKs, but it seems like every one I research has a dozen people touting it as the best, and another dozen saying they wouldn't be caught dead within ten feet of one. What makes you think the Yugo metal is softer? Just more wear?

I think any combloc made AK will be GTG. Which is better really comes down to personal preference and desired features/perceived collectors value. NPAPs seem to have softer bolt carriers (tail mushrooming) and thinner receivers than their military counterparts. That said, I don't think NPAPs are bad. They just don't seem to be as overbuilt as a real M70. If you find an NPAP you like, I say go for it. They are still way better than the current crop of 100% US made AKs.

[osok-308]

What do you guys think about converting a sporterized VEPR? Is that a good idea or a bit too much for an AK newbie?

[mutt]

What do you guys think about converting a sporterized VEPR? Is that a good idea or a bit too much for an AK newbie?

VEPRs, unlike SAIGAs, generally don't require much backend conversion since the trigger group is already in the right place. It's just replacing the stock and getting an adapter if you have the slant cut receiver.

Frontend conversion, on any sporterized AK, is a different matter. You have to remove the front sight and gas block to get on the proper handguard retainer. And, depending on your barrel, you may need to cut the slots in the barrel needed to accept the retainer. After getting everything back together you'll need to reapply the finish as pressing parts on and off tends to mar up paint/park.

If you plan to use standard AK mags, then a bullet guide needs to be installed and you'll probably have to trim the mag catch till your mags lock in properly.

[Gunner]

Dangerlee industries has a unconverted saiga for sale

[osok-308]

Dangerlee industries has a unconverted saiga for sale

This sounds great. Unfortunately, I only have about half the money I need. If he still has it once I've dabbed up enough, I'd love to go this route.

[beast556]

I've had ak's from most of the countrys manufacturing them over the year's. They are all the same just cosmetic differences. With that said the only ak in my safe now is a arsenal sgl-20 and I dont think I will ever part with it. Save your penny's and get the nice one

[Marine24]

Timely thread. I've never been a big fan of AKs, even though I've handled/shot a few of them but I'm warming up to the idea of adding one to the collection. There is a Yugo NPAP listed for sale that looks interesting. Not looking for anything fancy, but something that has the historic look of an AK (wood furniture, slant muzzle break...etc).

I realize accuracy will be more in line with the 300 Blackout AR than my DMR, but what other expectations need to be in check when looking at an AK? Number of comments above on fit and finish. This in reference to wood to metal fit and basic finish (bluing/parkerized finsih)?

[Wulf202]

If you want good looking wood send it to zteknik for refinishing. In my opinion they're like work trucks. Scratches and other character are just part of the deal.

Ak47s are 2-6 moa depending on a bunch of factors. Ak74s tend to shoot quite a bit tighter 1-3 moa.

[Great-Kazoo]

Timely thread. I've never been a big fan of AKs, even though I've handled/shot a few of them but I'm warming up to the idea of adding one to the collection. There is a Yugo NPAP listed for sale that looks interesting. Not looking for anything fancy, but something that has the historic look of an AK (wood furniture, slant muzzle break...etc).

I realize accuracy will be more in line with the 300 Blackout AR than my DMR, but what other expectations need to be in check when looking at an AK? Number of comments above on fit and finish. This in reference to wood to metal fit and basic finish (bluing/parkerized finsih)?


Did the previous owner use corrosive ammo and clean or not clean after use, is the bbl chrome (corrosive ammo issues if not) lined. How many rounds fired through it?

Outside of trigger slap and canted front sight (both easy to fix) the fit and finish of the higher ends one, they all do the same thing. Some better than others, it's up to you what price range you want to stay in.

That NPAP caught my eye too. Zteknik does outstanding furniture refinishing

[Marine24]

Appreciate the insight. Recall reading about the canted front sight but had to look up trigger slap.

[skoodge]

3rd party trigger upgrades get rid of the trigger slap; easy $30 fix. I wouldn't get hung up on the finish either. AK's arent known to have great/lasting finishes unless you duracoat, park, etc. on your own. Refinishing the wood is pretty easy IMO if you're handy.

But what the Great-Kazoo said, definitely look canted sights and any rust/pitting from corrosive ammo. Good luck!

[osok-308]

Timely thread. I've never been a big fan of AKs, even though I've handled/shot a few of them but I'm warming up to the idea of adding one to the collection. There is a Yugo NPAP listed for sale that looks interesting. Not looking for anything fancy, but something that has the historic look of an AK (wood furniture, slant muzzle break...etc).

I realize accuracy will be more in line with the 300 Blackout AR than my DMR, but what other expectations need to be in check when looking at an AK? Number of comments above on fit and finish. This in reference to wood to metal fit and basic finish (bluing/parkerized finsih)?

I checked it out too. If he had waited another month or two (when I had all the money saved up), I would have snagged it immediately.

[UrbanWolf]

Arsenal or converted Saiga. WASR isn't bad if you can find a cheap one. VEPR is decent but swapping furniture will be a challenge due to the forend configuration and slant cut receiver.
If you can find a MAK 90 or MAADI they are decent as well.
All of the US made rifles (less the RAS47 and C39) are just kit builds from foreign part sets and as such, only as good as the assembly of the parts.
Scratch the RAS and C39, I have seen issues with them that just scream NO!

Believe it or not, some of the Century "kit build" AK's are damn good rifles. Just inspect it closely for workmanship.
I have had a slew of Kalishnakov platform rifles, pre ban CommBlocs, post ban, kit builds etc.
The one that has stayed with me is an early Yugo M70. It is a Century gun assembled from a matching numbers part set from the Croatian conflict.
It's a tank of a rifle that is accurate and smooth.

I would listen to this guy.

[Bandrew1989]

you cant beat a wasr for a starter AK!

[def90]

Run.. don't walk away from the RAS47! and don't even think about IO..

Arsenal just announced a new stamped receiver AK that will be in the $800-$900 range.. That's a bargain. VEPRs run about the same. The new WASRs are a good deal as well.

[jreifsch80]

If you can find one for a decent price also check into the feg made amd-65 rifles I had one for a while and they're pretty well built. Also as for com bloc made ak's the Romanian sar series are very well made over all I have a sar-2 (5.45 converted to aims-74 config) that is an absolute sewing machine. My advice for a "true" combloc ak would be to keep an eye on the firearm forsale section on theakforum

[Shooter45]

I've got an older Arsenal, back when the receivers were from Russia and love it. While it was a little more pricey than many others, the quality is there big time. It only has a few thousand rounds through it but It maintains around 2 MOA if not slightly better. However, Arsenal has gone through many problems and are now all made in Bulgaria; with their finish being one of the bigger downfalls. After seeing some of the DDI's and reading reviews they seem like the best bet for an AK around $800 and made in the USA; one that works from the USA. That's what I'd go with.

[tawm]

I sent off two all-Polish underfolder kits (sourced from Arms of America and WhataCountry) to Two Rivers Arms to be built. I'm stoked to get them back.

Honestly with the impending release of the $800 Arsenal SGLs, I'd go with those if you just want a bone-stock AKM or wait for Palmetto State Armory to release their "build" kits.

[Shooter45]

Talking to the reps of Arsenal last year at Shot Show they were saying the last of their inventory was at current dealers and they were going to be back ordered for a few years pending a few contracts they had to fill. I haven't stayed up on them for a while but what changed?