View Full Version : Family Firearms Sales in COS
nogaroheli
12-07-2016, 00:03
I'm blown away this place is still in business. They do have some cool stuff and if you absolutely must have it right now they're an option but their "premium" prices are ridiculous. The normal salespeople there are decent, with just an average amount of eliteism. The owner actually replies to emails which is cool, but when I asked if they would price match a used 1911 they had to what Grabaguns new price was he told me that his 15% premium was a deal because I should be paying tax on anything I purchased online. All the firearms they sell are soooo overpriced! I get paying for expertise and to support the local guys, and I happily do for lots of other joints, but this place is just off their rocker.
Never been there, but if by 15% premium he meant his markup over his cost is 15%, then that isn't really unreasonable. It's difficult for a LGS to match some of the onliner's pre-Christmas prices. Especially when you are looking at some grab-a-gun specials along with their cheap shipping. Hell you may as well just order it off grab-a-gun.
Again, it all depends on what is meant by premium.
They used to have competitive prices. Once they drumed up a bit of buisness, their prices went way up.
You should be paying taxes on anything purchased online? LOL. Another gun enthusiast who sucks at business. Noted. Will not be going there.
nogaroheli
12-07-2016, 09:24
Never been there, but if by 15% premium he meant his markup over his cost is 15%, then that isn't really unreasonable. It's difficult for a LGS to match some of the onliner's pre-Christmas prices. Especially when you are looking at some grab-a-gun specials along with their cheap shipping. Hell you may as well just order it off grab-a-gun.
Again, it all depends on what is meant by premium.
He was charging 15% more, before tax, for a used 1911 than Grabagun was charging for a new one. I don't expect a LGS to match internet deals but at least try to be competitive- in price where possible and in other areas to close the gap.
I buy a bunch of stuff from Stop, Drop and Shop because they're local and really cool and they don't gouge their customers. On used stuff they have great prices and new stuff they'll do everything they can to close that gap- not so with Family Firearms Sales.
Dah. I missed the part in your OP that stated it was "used". I get it now and would also avoid doing any business with them.
I've only been in a handful of times, the guy who calls people "chief" or "boss" or some such doesn't make a good impression but I've never talked to him. The other guy that was patient and helpful. Didn't get the impression that either one was the owner. I wasn't really concerned about the pennies on the item I was after, more about finding it on the shelf without driving up to Denver or waiting for delivery.
The shop next door with plates, carriers, etc is entirely separate. I walked past their door 2X before realizing this! Come to think of it, I haven't seen any posts about them. Should probably make one.
APEXgunparts
12-08-2016, 00:37
I buy a bunch of stuff from Stop, Drop and Shop because they're local and really cool and they don't gouge their customers. On used stuff they have great prices and new stuff they'll do everything they can to close that gap- not so with Family Firearms Sales.
I will second the endorsement of Stop, Drop and Shop (SDS).
I always try and visit them to see what deals are in the rack!
They also do NFA transfers.
Richard
It'd be really hepful if you're going to talk about a business, positive or negative, to post a link to it to save everyone that reads the note having to google it individually...
Family Firearm Sales: http://www.ffsales.com/
Stop, Drop & Shop: http://stopdropandshop.net/
O2
APEXgunparts
12-09-2016, 01:29
It'd be really hepful if you're going to talk about a business, positive or negative, to post a link to it to save everyone that reads the note having to google it individually...
Family Firearm Sales: http://www.ffsales.com/
Stop, Drop & Shop: http://stopdropandshop.net/
O2
Sorry, I am usually on top of sharing a link!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDGYbhqlq_Y
Richard
I'm blown away this place is still in business. They do have some cool stuff and if you absolutely must have it right now they're an option but their "premium" prices are ridiculous. The normal salespeople there are decent, with just an average amount of eliteism. The owner actually replies to emails which is cool, but when I asked if they would price match a used 1911 they had to what Grabaguns new price was he told me that his 15% premium was a deal because I should be paying tax on anything I purchased online. All the firearms they sell are soooo overpriced! I get paying for expertise and to support the local guys, and I happily do for lots of other joints, but this place is just off their rocker.
Hi my name is Chad, the owner of Family Firearms Sales. I saw the post and wanted to add some facts to it since the OP put the brief conversation we had in a negative light. OP messaged me and commented that he liked the gun we had listed on GunBroker and that GrabAGun was selling them new for $893 + $8 shipping. I replied and stated that dealer cost on that gun is $890 new and MSRP is $1,179. Our gently used gun was listed for $931.95 + shipping.
In light of our cost on a new one - $40 over dealer cost for a like new pre-owned one isn't that bad and $250 less than MSRP. While I understand that some dealer is selling them new for under cost (I guess they got a really good deal from Springfield or just trying to dump them, IDK), I don't have that kind of leeway to sell items for $3 over cost and expect to stay in business. Our pre-owned items are a direct reflection of what we gave the previous owner for the trade. We probably give more on trades than any store in town.
So I find it unfair in the light the OP put us in and I wanted to add some facts. Unless you have ran a retail business before, you know that brick and mortar has a lot more costs that have to be covered. Heck just liability insurance and rent is nearly $30,000 a year. I know when I was just running things out of my home, I made more money at the end of the day than I do at the store. Without rent, insurance, lights, employees, theft, etc. I could sell for less and make more. My point is, it's not greed, it's staying in business. The margins on firearms are generally around 20% in retail. Walmart makes on average 32%. Not sure why everyone is hateful on retail gun stores when margins barely cover expenses and a little for the owner after everything is paid.
Anyway, I wanted to clarify things and add some more info to the post. It's hard to find good staff and we are all human - I always recommend if someone thinks they can do better than my current team - send me a resume explaining how and I'll consider hiring you next opening! :-) It took me 2 years of going through people to find a decent team. Nobody is perfect, but finding good, consistent people is very hard.
Anyway, come visit and find out for yourself. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the selection, prices and team we have! I appreciate your business and look forward to any constructive criticism that I can fix and make things better!
Thanks, Chad
Late to the party, and no direct deals with the subject of the OP.
I prefer to spend and support local businesses as much as the next guy - within reason. We all understand the difference in costs of tax vs transfer fees, etc. I generally have a preset amount in mind I'm willing to spend extra for convenience, local finger banging ability, and keeping the money in the community.
If you don't like the asking price, make a reasonable offer, and be prepared to negotiate. If you can't come to an agreement, walk away and don't be sour about it, but I never ask for a "price match" to so and so. Honestly, that just puts the seller on the defense as an indicator that you're only price shopping or abusing them and perhaps nothing else matters much.
Howdy sir. Good on ya for coming on and exposing yourself to e-fire.
I see the listings for Family Firearms on armslist all the time. There is tons of cool stuff but I agree that the prices are consistently way above what they should be. I've never had any interaction with anyone from their business and I'm sure they're good people. I think it's really cool of Chad to chime in and can appreciate his position. It sucks that costs are so high but if I can get what I'm looking for at a better price I can't see buying it from FFS just because they're local.
Hi my name is Chad, the owner of Family Firearms Sales. I saw the post and wanted to add some facts to it since the OP put the brief conversation we had in a negative light. OP messaged me and commented that he liked the gun we had listed on GunBroker and that GrabAGun was selling them new for $893 + $8 shipping. I replied and stated that dealer cost on that gun is $890 new and MSRP is $1,179. Our gently used gun was listed for $931.95 + shipping.
In light of our cost on a new one - $40 over dealer cost for a like new pre-owned one isn't that bad and $250 less than MSRP. While I understand that some dealer is selling them new for under cost (I guess they got a really good deal from Springfield or just trying to dump them, IDK), I don't have that kind of leeway to sell items for $3 over cost and expect to stay in business. Our pre-owned items are a direct reflection of what we gave the previous owner for the trade. We probably give more on trades than any store in town.
So I find it unfair in the light the OP put us in and I wanted to add some facts. Unless you have ran a retail business before, you know that brick and mortar has a lot more costs that have to be covered. Heck just liability insurance and rent is nearly $30,000 a year. I know when I was just running things out of my home, I made more money at the end of the day than I do at the store. Without rent, insurance, lights, employees, theft, etc. I could sell for less and make more. My point is, it's not greed, it's staying in business. The margins on firearms are generally around 20% in retail. Walmart makes on average 32%. Not sure why everyone is hateful on retail gun stores when margins barely cover expenses and a little for the owner after everything is paid.
Anyway, I wanted to clarify things and add some more info to the post. It's hard to find good staff and we are all human - I always recommend if someone thinks they can do better than my current team - send me a resume explaining how and I'll consider hiring you next opening! :-) It took me 2 years of going through people to find a decent team. Nobody is perfect, but finding good, consistent people is very hard.
Anyway, come visit and find out for yourself. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the selection, prices and team we have! I appreciate your business and look forward to any constructive criticism that I can fix and make things better!
Thanks, Chad
I'm not taking sides here... But that was a well thought out post. Just make sure to weigh the realities of business against realities of the market. Many a biz has gone under when they forget about the rest of the market. Nothing against you, or your prices, just brotherly advice given my experience.
I'd like to guarantee you that I can, could and would do better than your current team. But I admittedly think a LOT of myself, just barely on the right side of "unhealthy". I also have to rib and jest at you a bit as a new commercial user.
I'm not taking sides here... But that was a well thought out post. Just make sure to weigh the realities of business against realities of the market. Many a biz has gone under when they forget about the rest of the market. Nothing against you, or your prices, just brotherly advice given my experience.
I'd like to guarantee you that I can, could and would do better than your current team. But I admittedly think a LOT of myself, just barely on the right side of "unhealthy". I also have to rib and jest at you a bit as a new commercial user.
lol thanks! At least you have a realistic view of yourself haha. Retail is very tough. It's the funnest job I have had and I love our customers and talking with them and seeing their excitement! But it is challenging to be in a "good" mood all the time when you feel bad and are grumpy. We try to hit the mark with our prices, but we got in sideways on this one. We can't scour the internet to see what the lowest guy is liquidating his inventory for when we take a trade. We go by supplier cost to dealers and got burned on this one. Isn't the first time, wont be the last. I appreciate the advice!
nogaroheli
02-04-2017, 08:05
Chad, I'm happy to see your explanation of the situation. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out.
I understand very well the difficulties of retail and small business, good job making it work.
Part of the excitement of getting a new firearm for me is finding a good deal. I do like to find the best price when possible, it's part of the hunt. I understand that I'm typically going to pay more from the local places and that's valuable to me. It's more justifiable when they have a unique item I'm not familiar with and they can teach me about it or add something of value to the experience. But on an everyday item that can be found easily at any number of outlets, a regular old Springfield Loaded 1911, I don't think paying more for a used one than most stores have new ones for makes sense. Unless it's coming with the worlds best cup of coffee or a hilarious joke it's the same as any other out there. If the consumer is taking more time to scour the market than the retailer then the retailer is going to have a tough time.
I've noticed your stores Armslist ads and they trend towards the very high end of prices out there. A companies internet presence will often determine whether I take the extra step to visit their brick and mortar store. I hope your store does have the jokes and coffee to make the prices worthwhile but the prices online and in the store outweighed the other factors and helped form my poor impression.
I'm impressed you came and laid out your thoughts here, thanks for taking the time to do it.
I'm not in a position to make a good or bad comment about store as I don't get that far south often and have never been there. That being said, from what I have seen on their Armslist ads, their prices do seem to trend slightly higher than the shops I frequent in the Denver area. But, on a positive note, they also seem to consistently have items on hand that you just can't find anywhere else. Sometimes it's worth it to pay a little more to get your hands on something you have been having trouble locating elsewhere. But maybe that's just me. Seems the gun buying population in general is more about getting the best deal on something even if they have to wait.
"In light of our cost on a new one - $40 over dealer cost for a like new pre-owned one isn't that bad and $250 less than MSRP. While I understand that some dealer is selling them new for under cost (I guess they got a really good deal from Springfield or just trying to dump them, IDK), I don't have that kind of leeway to sell items for $3 over cost and expect to stay in business. Our pre-owned items are a direct reflection of what we gave the previous owner for the trade. We probably give more on trades than any store in town."
Chad - as everyone else has already stated, thanks for coming onboard and making your case. I get all your points except for the one above. You say the cost was $40 over dealer cost for a new one. I get what you are saying but do not think that is a fair comparison as we all know that dealers typically pay less than the used value for a trade-in. The ones I have dealt with typically are in the 70% range. Are you saying you paid $890 for it used and at 893 would have made $3? I've helped out a couple of dealers for a several years now and they never pay what they can get a new one for.
"In light of our cost on a new one - $40 over dealer cost for a like new pre-owned one isn't that bad and $250 less than MSRP. While I understand that some dealer is selling them new for under cost (I guess they got a really good deal from Springfield or just trying to dump them, IDK), I don't have that kind of leeway to sell items for $3 over cost and expect to stay in business. Our pre-owned items are a direct reflection of what we gave the previous owner for the trade. We probably give more on trades than any store in town."
Chad - as everyone else has already stated, thanks for coming onboard and making your case. I get all your points except for the one above. You say the cost was $40 over dealer cost for a new one. I get what you are saying but do not think that is a fair comparison as we all know that dealers typically pay less than the used value for a trade-in. The ones I have dealt with typically are in the 70% range. Are you saying you paid $890 for it used and at 893 would have made $3? I've helped out a couple of dealers for a several years now and they never pay what they can get a new one for.
Thanks for your reply! I didn't write that section very clearly. We paid less than a new one costs us. At least that is the plan! Sometimes we make a mistake, but this one is priced right. We just appear to be upside down in it because another online dealer is selling new ones below cost... We also have more room to negotiate on pre-owned guns as our margins are a little better.
Chad, I'm happy to see your explanation of the situation. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out.
I understand very well the difficulties of retail and small business, good job making it work.
Part of the excitement of getting a new firearm for me is finding a good deal. I do like to find the best price when possible, it's part of the hunt. I understand that I'm typically going to pay more from the local places and that's valuable to me. It's more justifiable when they have a unique item I'm not familiar with and they can teach me about it or add something of value to the experience. But on an everyday item that can be found easily at any number of outlets, a regular old Springfield Loaded 1911, I don't think paying more for a used one than most stores have new ones for makes sense. Unless it's coming with the worlds best cup of coffee or a hilarious joke it's the same as any other out there. If the consumer is taking more time to scour the market than the retailer then the retailer is going to have a tough time.
I've noticed your stores Armslist ads and they trend towards the very high end of prices out there. A companies internet presence will often determine whether I take the extra step to visit their brick and mortar store. I hope your store does have the jokes and coffee to make the prices worthwhile but the prices online and in the store outweighed the other factors and helped form my poor impression.
I'm impressed you came and laid out your thoughts here, thanks for taking the time to do it.
haha good jokes and coffee if you ask! We had one review of a guy scolding us for joking and having fun. I kid you not! Can't please everyone! I have noticed a trend with people on Facebook groups and forums and they are more price conscience. We don't compete well based solely on price. That's not our market, never will be. No brick and mortar store can compete with online prices. Our niche is having hard to get items, tons of quality and cool AR parts, friendly and knowledgeable staff, the best, low drag, customer service around, and we will cut up and joke once we get to know you! :-) Once we really get to know you, you will be part of the jabbing going on as well haha
theGinsue
02-04-2017, 12:31
COAR family, I've been monitoring this thread and would like to thank everyone participating here for remaining respectful in their posts. Too often, both here at COAR15 and elsewhere, we see these types of discussions turn hateful and nasty. I'm very appreciative that we're able to keep this conversation civil and exchange our ideas and opinions respectfully. Good job everone.
I can easily see both sides of this issue. Firearms retailers have to make money or face going out of business and consumers always want the best deal they can find, particularly in todays uncertain economic climate.
As a consumer, I'm willing to adjust my out of pocket margin a bit based on how I'm treated by the retailer. I'm friends with the owners of two Colorado Springs firearms retailers (nether of which are related to Family Firearms) These friendships go back to before either owner opened their stores. One of these retailers has always treated me well as a consumer (no special discounts, just good respectful interaction). This business will continue to see my wallet open for them. The other business, which I provided several hours of pro-bono IT assistance to when they opened and I gave a full tanned elk hide to them to enhance their decor, offered to sell me a used 1911 for more than I bought a new one (same make/model) elsewhere (this price was offered by the owner, not an employee). I've known that owner for more than 25 years and to say that I was hurt by this is an understatement. While I'll maintain my friendship with the owner, this business will never see another dollar from me.
In the end it's about respect. If the retailer is respectful to me I will reward them with my business. Similarly, if I'm respectful to the business I expect them to recipicate, even if it isn't something that lowers the cost of the item(s) I'm looking to purchase. What I'm seeing in this thread is both consumers and retailer showing each other respect. THIS is the COAR & American way!
COAR family, I've been monitoring this thread and would like to thank everyone participating here for remaining respectful in their posts. Too often, both here at COAR15 and elsewhere, we see these types of discussions turn hateful and nasty. I'm very appreciative that we're able to keep this conversation civil and exchange our ideas and opinions respectfully. Good job everone.
I can easily see both sides of this issue. Firearms retailers have to make money or face going out of business and consumers always want the best deal they can find, particularly in todays uncertain economic climate.
As a consumer, I'm willing to adjust my out of pocket margin a bit based on how I'm treated by the retailer. I'm friends with the owners of two Colorado Springs firearms retailers (nether of which are related to Family Firearms) These friendships go back to before either owner opened their stores. One of these retailers has always treated me well as a consumer (no special discounts, just good respectful interaction). This business will continue to see my wallet open for them. The other business, which I provided several hours of pro-bono IT assistance to when they opened and I gave a full tanned elk hide to them to enhance their decor, offered to sell me a used 1911 for more than I bought a new one (same make/model) elsewhere (this price was offered by the owner, not an employee). I've known that owner for more than 25 years and to say that I was hurt by this is an understatement. While I'll maintain my friendship with the owner, this business will never see another dollar from me.
In the end it's about respect. If the retailer is respectful to me I will reward them with my business. Similarly, if I'm respectful to the business I expect them to recipicate, even if it isn't something that lowers the cost of the item(s) I'm looking to purchase. What I'm seeing in this thread is both consumers and retailer showing each other respect. THIS is the COAR & American way!
I agree, this seems like a legit group of people! Very refreshing to see online! Gun people are some of the nicest folks I have met! Thanks for allowing me to post!
And hats off to the owner for having the balls to chime in. Can't say I would do the same in his shoes for fear of being publicly lynched.
Thanks for your reply! I didn't write that section very clearly. We paid less than a new one costs us. At least that is the plan! Sometimes we make a mistake, but this one is priced right. We just appear to be upside down in it because another online dealer is selling new ones below cost... We also have more room to negotiate on pre-owned guns as our margins are a little better.
Thanks for clarifying, Chad. A lot of people don't realize how difficult the business can be. I know one who does business out of his home and gun shows. Even with a 10% mark-up due to lower overhead, the online shops still can offer lower pricing.
Thanks for clarifying, Chad. A lot of people don't realize how difficult the business can be. I know one who does business out of his home and gun shows. Even with a 10% mark-up due to lower overhead, the online shops still can offer lower pricing.
Exactly, they have the buying power and lower overhead. We should be able to get better cost once we grow more and get into more programs.
I had never been to this store until today when meeting someone for a transfer there. I was impressed with their selection of not only firearms but AR and Glock parts and accessories.
I went to Family Firearms today in search of a wrench that would fit the barrel nut on my Ruger Precision rimfire. While they don’t offer one for sale they said they had one they use for gunsmithjng and would be happy to loosen the nut (which I had spent hours trying to remove) for me. I had to go back home and get the gun, when I returned they removed the nut for me for free. Incredibly generous of them. While I was there I noticed they had lots of cool guns like a CZ Shadow 2, Sig MPXs, and th new Ruger Precison Magnum (didn’t ask which caliber). I’ll definitely be back, thanks guys.
I've been using them for transfers. Out of state shipments cost 40ish dollars. Person to person 20.50 all in. Not bad I suppose. As rtr mentioned, a lot of stuff to look at while waiting for the Stasi to do their thing.
encorehunter
11-21-2019, 13:11
I went in today while waiting for am MRI. I was just looking, but never spoke to any of the employees. I did hear them working with a few customers, they were very respectful and were not rude to the gentleman trying to trade in a Hipoint. It is not my type of gun store, as I like my older stuff.
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