View Full Version : Body Armor Conundrums.
I currently work as a Contracted Armed Security Professional for the U.S. Govt.
I am issued a concealable Level IIIA vest that is white in color. The carrier has to be white in order to be worn on duty.
Due to the cultural climate and general attitude towards uniformed persons carrying a gun and wearing a badge I have decided I would like to up armor myself with either Level III +/Special Threat plates.
Capable of at minimum stopping multiple impacts of:
All 5.45x39mm excluding AP
All 5.56mm excluding AP and M855A1.
All 7.62x39 threats excluding AP.
All 7.62x51 NATO ball ammo.
All 7.62x54R COMBLOC ball ammo.
Shotgun buckshot and slugs of any guage up to 12.
All handgun rounds capable of being defeated by Level IIIA rated armor.
My issued armor carrier cannot accommodate hard plates of any decent size, (it has the heart 6x8 plate pocket in the front and thats it)
After using my Google-Fu and contacting several custom tactical gear makers, and big names like Blue Force Gear I haven't come up with anyone offering a concealable hard rifle plate carrrier that is available in white in color.
So in short I need a concealable hard armor carrier that can accomadate a 10x12" plate front and back similar to these designs....except in white.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161230/a8c06a9abf6e89030a2723796ca6df4f.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161230/b2289c2517dde6880518597d78188118.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161230/bffe0bb3d533c9663aea7ca72a61b0db.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161230/ceec8aaf82a4089614d13b3aa15a0b88.jpg
If anyone has any leads for me on carrier options.
Or recommendations on level III + plates that are NOT steel, weigh less than 4 lbs each and are under 1" thick I would appreciate it.
I am currently leaning towards the DFNDR Armor offerings.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
https://youtu.be/UbpzSpQgmsg
Heres a good review of the DFNDR Armor.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Snowman78
12-30-2016, 14:13
Here is my set-up:
http://www.rmadefense.com/shop.asp
and
http://www.lapolicegear.com/tg-xpc-exo-carrier.html
I got my plates yesterday, here is my set up. I am happy with it. Total weight is a little over 16 lbs with 2 full mags.
With both the soft and PC my total armor weight is right around 24 lbs.
Total cost is right around $465.00 (my soft armor was around $700.00.
67492674936749467495
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My plates have a fabric cover, maybe you can contact RMA and ask if they can do a white cover for you.
http://www.rmadefense.com/
I don't think I've ever seen a white PC.
Could you get something like you have above and have white fabric sewn over it? You could see if any tailors in town would do it for you. The fabric would need to be thick enough to conceal the original color.
Be aware, some reviews of the PIG Brig (your first pic) say it sticks up too high in the front to conceal. So you'd need to start with something lower profile or with adjustable front straps.
Diy white cover or perhaps even solid white fabric paint
Snowman78
12-30-2016, 16:52
You asked for " level III + or IV plates that are NOT steel, weigh less than 4 lbs each and are under 1" thick" I don't believe you will be able to find anything that meets this requirement. My set up without mags is over 14lbs, no way I could wear it all shift with all the other shit I have to have.......
You asked for " level III + or IV plates that are NOT steel, weigh less than 4 lbs each and are under 1" thick" I don't believe you will be able to find anything that meets this requirement. My set up without mags is over 14lbs, no way I could wear it all shift with all the other shit I have to have.......
This.
I have an AR500 6"x8" III+ steel plate in my trauma plate pouch on my Second Chance vest I wear on duty. It fits just fine, and due to the location doesn't really add much additional weight that I can feel (the vest is good at weight distribution). My "other" rig is a standard plate carrier with AR500 level IV plates. Despite the weight, they fit without being too "bulky" feeling (As the SAPIs feel like they're more full inside the PC). If you want lightweight but thin, I don't think you can get that as SAPI and other new-age ceramics still tend to be much thicker than a comparable steel plate rated for level III, III+, and IV.
wctriumph
12-30-2016, 18:24
Bleach the material. Chlorine bleach should take any color out of the fabric.
I don't think I've ever seen a white PC.
Could you get something like you have above and have white fabric sewn over it? You could see if any tailors in town would do it for you. The fabric would need to be thick enough to conceal the original color.
Be aware, some reviews of the PIG Brig (your first pic) say it sticks up too high in the front to conceal. So you'd need to start with something lower profile or with adjustable front straps.
Ideally I would like a ready to go off the shelf, or custom made carrier.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Diy white cover or perhaps even solid white fabric paint
Never tried fabric paint before, thats an interesting idea.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
You asked for " level III + or IV plates that are NOT steel, weigh less than 4 lbs each and are under 1" thick" I don't believe you will be able to find anything that meets this requirement. My set up without mags is over 14lbs, no way I could wear it all shift with all the other shit I have to have.......
I have seen a few offererings in this weight range, just have had no personal experience with them. After some research I have dropped the Level IV from my requirements.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
You asked for " level III + or IV plates that are NOT steel, weigh less than 4 lbs each and are under 1" thick" I don't believe you will be able to find anything that meets this requirement. My set up without mags is over 14lbs, no way I could wear it all shift with all the other shit I have to have.......
This.
I have an AR500 6"x8" III+ steel plate in my trauma plate pouch on my Second Chance vest I wear on duty. It fits just fine, and due to the location doesn't really add much additional weight that I can feel (the vest is good at weight distribution). My "other" rig is a standard plate carrier with AR500 level IV plates. Despite the weight, they fit without being too "bulky" feeling (As the SAPIs feel like they're more full inside the PC). If you want lightweight but thin, I don't think you can get that as SAPI and other new-age ceramics still tend to be much thicker than a comparable steel plate rated for level III, III+, and IV.
^this.
side plate carrier inside the trauma plate slot.
BTW , white soft armor carrier sucks.
68571
It could fall apart with the heavy bleach treatment ? It can be pretty damaging.
You asked for " level III + or IV plates that are NOT steel, weigh less than 4 lbs each and are under 1" thick" I don't believe you will be able to find anything that meets this requirement. My set up without mags is over 14lbs, no way I could wear it all shift with all the other shit I have to have.......
I have seen a few offererings in this weight range, just have had no personal experience with them. After some research I have dropped the Level IV from my requirements.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Bleach the material. Chlorine bleach should take any color out of the fabric.
From what I've seen on the interwebs Cordura cannot be bleached white, but this may be bad info.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
This might be a dumb question, but could you just wear a lightweight t-shirt over the vest? Some sort of polyester workout shirt. Obviously not Underarmor, since you'd be wearing it over your armor.
Without paint, black shows thru fibers pretty well I've noticed. Also we get hot enough as is without adding extra shirt layers.
This might be a dumb question, but could you just wear a lightweight t-shirt over the vest? Some sort of polyester workout shirt. Obviously not Underarmor, since you'd be wearing it over your armor.
What fitz said.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
I guess I don't understand where this armor will be worn. If it's already under a uniform, why does it mayer what color it is in the first place? EDIT: I understand that rules are rules.
I guess I don't understand where this armor will be worn. If it's already under a uniform, why does it mayer what color it is in the first place? EDIT: I understand that rules are rules.
A white polyester paper thin uniform shirt worn over an armor carrier with a t-shirt worn under that. Anything aside from white will show like crap on toilet paper.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Force One has an outer shell carrier which accommodates 10x12 plate. They do have white. It is probably as comfortable as those mini discreet plate carriers.
68576
also , maybe this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ForceOne-Concealable-Panel-Plate-Carrier-White-2140-/252699407647?hash=item3ad60ef51f:g:OBYAAOSw44BYO5Y X
theGinsue
12-31-2016, 14:06
From what I've seen on the interwebs Cordura cannot be bleached white, but this may be bad info.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
This is correct. I've tried bleaching as well as fabric dye before with zero effect on the original color.
Call Mayflower Research/Velocity Systems and tell them what you need. They will take care of you.
Force One has an outer shell carrier which accommodates 10x12 plate. They do have white. It is probably as comfortable as those mini discreet plate carriers.
68576
also , maybe this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ForceOne-Concealable-Panel-Plate-Carrier-White-2140-/252699407647?hash=item3ad60ef51f:g:OBYAAOSw44BYO5Y X
These guys are out of business as of April, still might be able to find one in good shape though. Thanks for the heads up.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
HoneyBadger
12-31-2016, 21:22
Are you really expecting to deal with rifle threats? If you're willing to consider something smaller and lighter than 10x12" AR500 plates, this post may be relevant.
The Armor Express systems are pretty slick and it appears that they do sell them in white: http://www.armorexpress.com/evolution
Some of their carriers are pretty interesting: http://www.armorexpress.com/low-pro -Probably not what you're looking for, but interesting nonetheless.
Also, their hard plates are extremely lightweight and would work very well against many threats: http://www.armorexpress.com/plates-packs The "C-Shock" may be the only one that meets your ballistic needs, but I don't think they make it as big as you'd like.
[QUOTE=HoneyBadger;2040262]Are you really expecting to deal with rifle threats? [QUOTE=HoneyBadger;2040262]
My reasoning is I will be at this job for a minimum of another 2 years.
During this time I have to wear armor. The level IIIA vest I have been issued weighs about 7lbs.
If I have to wear this for the next 2 or so years I would rather it stopped something a tad bit more powerful than .44 Magnum, and if I can do that at under that same weight limit then why not?
When I leave this job I will then turn in my issued carrier, sell/trade my white one to someone, and have a set of Level III+ Plates for future jobs, SHTF etc.
If I was expecting to get into a rifle gunfight at work come Tuesday, I would call in sick that day. ;)
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Is Eggroll still making custom gear?
KevDen2005
01-01-2017, 10:01
Just food for thought, this doesn't really answer your question. However I keep a plate carrier in my patrol car with upgraded plates, however I don't wear it all the time. I throw it on if things seem like they are gonna be nasty. Granted this doesn't protect me all the time, but I think wearing them for an entire duty day every day would suck.
HoneyBadger
01-01-2017, 10:36
If I was expecting to get into a rifle gunfight at work come Tuesday, I would call in sick that day. ;)
Sounds like pretty good logic. I hope you find something that works well for you!
Is Eggroll still making custom gear?
Yes. Extreme Gear Labs.
But dealing with him is a pain unto itself.
Mick-Boy
01-06-2017, 00:54
Call Mayflower Research/Velocity Systems and tell them what you need. They will take care of you.
This.
Velocity has an Ultra-Low Viz (ULV) kit that has a grey plate carrier and a white tshirt style carrier with plate pockets. It's a pain in the ass to get into but, depending on your build/body type, you can wear a polo over the top of it and no one would guess you've got rifle rated protection on.
Just remember the rule of hard armor: Thin, light and cheap. You get to pick two.
ClangClang
01-06-2017, 14:42
You talk about ratings, but use a designation "3+" which is not an official NIJ rating and means different things to different manufacturers. What THREATS are you hoping to defeat? For instance, M855 green tip is NOT stopped by all 3+ plates. I am not aware of any rifle plate on the market that will defeat M855 and weighs under 4 lbs. To stop M855, you have to get a "3++" or "3+ Special Threat" or some other funky name - everyone has a different designation. For that type of rating though, the lightest I've seen is around 4.6 pounds from DFNDR, or 4.8 lbs from Armour-Wear for literally 60% cheaper. Velocity has a plate (7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand-Alone Rifle Plate) that weighs the same, but is only 0.5" thick instead of 1.1" thick so they'll conceal much better.
The white carrier will likely have to be custom manufactured. I've never seen one regularly stocked by any of the common mfgrs. If you're going to get thin plates like the Velocity ones I mentioned above, TTG has a nice low-viz carrier which is perfect for concealed wear. They might make one for you in white. http://www.trentontactical.com/ttg-wag-lo-pro/
Finally, if you're standing around on guard duty all day, I suspect you will stop wearing rifle plates after very long and just stick with your soft armor.
You talk about ratings, but use a designation "3+" which is not an official NIJ rating and means different things to different manufacturers. What THREATS are you hoping to defeat? For instance, M855 green tip is NOT stopped by all 3+ plates. I am not aware of any rifle plate on the market that will defeat M855 and weighs under 4 lbs. To stop M855, you have to get a "3++" or "3+ Special Threat" or some other funky name - everyone has a different designation. For that type of rating though, the lightest I've seen is around 4.6 pounds from DFNDR, or 4.8 lbs from Armour-Wear for literally 60% cheaper. Velocity has a plate (7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand-Alone Rifle Plate) that weighs the same, but is only 0.5" thick instead of 1.1" thick so they'll conceal much better.
The white carrier will likely have to be custom manufactured. I've never seen one regularly stocked by any of the common mfgrs. If you're going to get thin plates like the Velocity ones I mentioned above, TTG has a nice low-viz carrier which is perfect for concealed wear. They might make one for you in white. http://www.trentontactical.com/ttg-wag-lo-pro/
Finally, if you're standing around on guard duty all day, I suspect you will stop wearing rifle plates after very long and just stick with your soft armor.
You are right I have not specified which threats I would like the armor to stop. I will edit the original post to reflect what I am looking for.
I have found a few 3.5 - 4 lb plates under an inch thick, still reaearching and shopping around.
The weight does not bother me that much. I've put up with much worse for longer.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
ClangClang
01-07-2017, 14:07
I have found a few 3.5 - 4 lb plates under an inch thick, still reaearching and shopping around.
No kidding. Can you post or PM me a link?
No kidding. Can you post or PM me a link?
Sure thing.
8x10" 3.8 lbs
http://m.galls.com/paraclete-speed-plate-plus-shooters-cut?PMSRCE=GA15&gclid=Cj0KEQiAy53DBRCo4en29Zvcla0BEiQAVIDcc6q5wSQp AlOhSNWnbQX2h9QEiHnAMNejDGUbzyPROAoaAmBP8P8HAQ
10x12" ~ 4.5lbs (close enough in my book)
https://armour-wear.com/shop/all/hard-plates/hard-plate-10-x-12-pe-level-3-stand-alone/
10x12" 3.3lbs - Level 3 only.
https://hardwirellc.com/collections/body-armor-plates/products/multi-curved-plate
10x12" 2.8 lbs - Level 3 only.
https://hardwirellc.com/collections/body-armor-plates/products/lightweight-plate
10x12" 3.6 lbs - 0.5" thick. Level 3+ ICW
http://www.tyrtactical.com/products/details/ballistic-plates-soft-armor-inserts/tyr-hard-armor-level-3-i-c-plate/
SAPI Medium Size 4 lbs 1.1" thick Special Threat stops M855
https://www.dfndrarmor.com/product/level-iii-plus-plus-rifle-plate-body-armor/
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Snowman78
01-10-2017, 11:32
Here is one out of Fort Collins:
http://armor.angelintelligence.com/products/truth-snap/
Kaiser.Shooter
01-10-2017, 20:31
This plate looks interesting: VISM B4C1012 BODY ARMOR LEVEL IV CERAMIC & PE BALLISTIC PLATE SHOOTERS CUT 10X12, 5.5lbs
http://www.combatprep.com/VISM-B4C1012-BODY-ARMOR-LEVEL-IV-CERAMIC-PE-PLATE-p/b4c1012.htm
If those are really the specs you want, I would buy the Velocity Systems BZ Plates. I've never seen anything to compete with them.
They come in ICW:
http://store.atarmor.com/product_p/vs-pbz.htm
or stand alone:
http://store.atarmor.com/product_p/vs-pbz-sa.htm
Most plates like that seem to drop the 7.62 Nato rating to be thinner. Like the Midwest Armor FM STX:
http://www.midwestarmor.com/body-armor/venture-fm-stx
These are heavier than you specified though.
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