Looking for a 45 ACP "PET" Load

[gengra]

I was wondering if anybody would share a good load for the .45 ACP? Here's what I'm looking for: I'll be shooting several pistols, 3.5-5", also will be using 16" carbine. I will be using a Croney (sp) to make sure they will be doing what they're suppose to. I'm setting a new tool head up for my 650 Dillon. Redding Titanium dies. I already have 230 Gr FMJ-FP Horndey bullets and 230Gr RN West Coast Bullets (Target loads). These bullets are what I have now -- so I'm going to use them up. But also interested in what others bullets people are shooting. My big question is Powder?
Clay's? or is there something else I should be looking at. I do not want to do alot of experimenting, just want someting I can shoot all the time.
I have'nt got the powder yet.
Thanks for your help.
G

[Fal Grunt]

I use 4gr of clays w/230gr. My Dillon 650 unfortunately throws inconsistent about .2-.4gr. So the fps ranges from something like 850-900 out of a 5" 1911 if I remember right.

Double check your powder thrower and powder check die every couple hundred rounds, I had 2 squib loads out of a recent batch of about 200. Scared the piss out of me. Totally tore the tool head back down and re-set everything.

-myers

[DOC]

When you go to buy the powder ask what a popular pistol powder is and then use what it recommends on the bottle. Having said that I use titegroup (not hotshot)for my .40 s&w and I think its 7 grains. I used for a few .45 rounds too but I don't remember what the measurement was? But hotshot worked well in a 1911.

[Colorado Osprey]

I have switched to "Clays" just because it is so clean.
In the past I have used Red Dot and 231 with great success.

[DOC]

Correction to what I said. "Titegroup" is the powder I use not hotshot.

Sorry about that.

[gengra]

Thanks all,
I been looking for a powder just for 45 ACP. I' ve heard of Clays before asking. Clean burning is always good! When time permits I'll be trying a couple of different flavors. A big concern is how well it meters thur the Dillon. Some of my favorite powders do not do well as others thur the bar.
Thanks
G

[VinceU1]

with a MG 185 JHP I use 6.5gr of WW231. With a lead 200gr SWC I use 5.6gr of 231. Both make major from a 5in barrel.
Vince

[SA Friday]

Clays
Solo 1000
VV N320
Titegroup

All will get you there, some are better than others with lead/moly coated bullets. I wouldn't use Titegroup with anything but jacketed bullets. N320 and Titegroup will meter the best. I use clays and Solo 1000, and they are both large fluffy flake powders. Out of my RCBS powder throw, they both can be a little tempermental, but workable. Out of a Dillon, I've heard they can be problematical. Clays is king of the castle for 45 acp IMO. Solo 1000 is a close second. N320 is expensive but meters well and pretty clean burning. Titegroup meters like a dream, but is a nitro based powder; burns very hot and will cause a small smoke screen if used with lead or moly coated bullets.

Your real problem is the powder throw on your 650. Most that I know using this powder throw polish the inside of the funnel as smooth and shiney as possible to include the drop part as much as possible. Some go to a micro adjustable bar too. I know there is info on these modifications and I think some tinkering with springs on brianenos.com in the forums. Some hate them so much they acutally retro-fit an RCBS powder throw to their Dillon machines.

[Tim K]

W231 is my choice because I can use it in .40 and .45.

I'm currently running 230g LRN's from Missouri Bullet company over 5.3g of 231 with any primer.

[SA Friday]

When you go to buy the powder ask what a popular pistol powder is and then use what it recommends on the bottle. Having said that I use titegroup (not hotshot)for my .40 s&w and I think its 7 grains. I used for a few .45 rounds too but I don't remember what the measurement was? But hotshot worked well in a 1911.
7gr of TG in a 40 cal load? Uh, kaboom.

I would look at Clays, Solo 1000, and Titegroup for your 45 acp loads for pistol. You may want to look at slower burning powders for 45 carbine loads and see if they work better or worse than the three listed above. The carbine's going to have more barrel, and a slower powder might work better in it.

I've used all three of the powders above in 45 acp loads. My current competition load for my 1911 is 230gr Moly coated lead bullet from BBI, 4.2gr of Solo 1000, 1.255 OAL, mixed brass, Fed or Win LPP. Clays would take less powder, probably in the 3.8gr range. Titegroup, not sure. IMO, Clays was made for 45 ACP, Solo 1000 a really close second, and TG coming in 3rd. TG isn't the best for lead or moly bullets as it smokes a ton with them. It also burns really hot so the gun heats up a bit, but TG is really consistant, accurate, and cheap. A 4th option would be VV N320. It's expensive, but that's it's only drawback. It meters really well, burn rate would probably work in both pistol and carbine very well, works with any bullet type, and has a fairly soft recoil impulse. I would use it for everything I could, but it's just so damn expensive.

[Hannu]

Do not try 7 grains of TG with .40 S&W My match load has 180gr bullet, 4.7 gr of TG and pressure level is just around SAAMI maximum...

I have used lighter bullets in .45 for some reason recently. Recoil just feel sharper and better.
Clays 3.7 gr or TG 4.2 gr with Hornady 230gr FMJ gives about 760 fps from my LBC Concept V@ 5" with good accuracy.

N310, N320, N330 etc. have some problems when you have big case and low pressure, like .45 ACP or .45 Colt. They meter very well, but just because of that the shape and composition of N320 are better suited to, for example, 9mm.
You can develop very good load with N320, but it is easier with Clays or TG. Vihtavuori developed N32C powder recently, which works better in many cases with .45 ACP or .45 Colt.

I would stick with US powders designed to work with rounds like .45 ACP. Like SA Friday said, Clays is the powder for .45 ACP and TG works very good with jacketed bullets. No experience with Solo 1000 here.

I specially do not recommend N310 for .45 ACP, again you may be able to develop a good load but those powders are not designed for cartridges like .45 ACP.

I would use some slower stuff, like HS-6, to get uniform muzzle velocities from carbine.

Where I am from, Vihtavuori was many years the only available powder. Happily, nowadays Hodgdon is also available there :) Even the price is ~2x Vihtavuori price there :(

[SA Friday]

Ooh, no, N310 would be just bad juju. I don't even like that stuff in 9mm or 40 either. It's soft, but damn you walk the edge. I agree HS-6 would be a good carbine powder.

[jerrymrc]

For years it was 5.9Gr of unique. Then all the other calibers started coming and I wanted something that was clean and had loadings from 9X18 to 45acp. I found it in AA7. I load 9X18, 38 super, 7.62X25, 40S&W and 45ACP with it.

Yes the loads are larger than allot of pistol powders but the benefit is that as far as my loadings go it is imposable to double charge a case unless you could miss all the powder spilling over. The difference in cost meaning I can only load 1000 Vs 1600 on a lb of powder is not a problem for me. I really like my AA7 loads.

[Hannu]

N310 produces very soft recoil, but it is just next from dynamite :) It has quite high density for so degressive powder, you could easily put triple charge in .45 ACP case behind 185gr bullet...
We once shot .40 match ammo from IPSC shooter loaded with N310 in pressure gun. The load had N310 powder + 180gr FMJ bullet and the pressure reading was around 3500 bar, or 51.000 psi.
Very soft recoil though, measured PF was 178, but do not try this kind of load in a gun with loose chamber rear end. It may get even looser :)

Other thing with N310 is if you have pretty big case like .45 ACP or .45 Colt, + 3-4 grains of powder on the bottom, it may produce erratic pressures / velocities. Unlike, for example, TG which works very well in that kind of situation.

[SA Friday]

The left cartridge was Solo 1000. The right cartridge was N310. Both were fired from an STI with a Schuemann barrel, gun built by Benny Hill. Both rounds were essentially 170 pf. I'm thinkin the barrel did not agree with the N310 so well.

[jgang]

5.5g of W231 or 4g of Clays under a Lazercast 200 LSWC. 1.25 OAL and a slight taper crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die with a CCI LPP. I really like the metering qualities of W231, but it is a bit dirty. Might have to try some Pistol Powder soon as I begin to work up a .45 Super load for my modified STI Trojan.

[waxthis]

I've had great luck with 5.2 gr Clays, CCI primers, and barry's 185 gr Hollow base round nose bullets. This set up seems to have less snap then factory 230's in my XD-45, I can shoot em all day long. I believe chrono was around 950 or so...I'll double check and post If I'm mistaken.

[smchop]

Ive been using 5.5 of bullseye with montana gold 185 Jhp's set at 1.120 for my sig and 1911 and enjoy shooting those. Havent chrono'd anything yet but I'm not that indepth yet either. Ive used both cci and win primers and can tell no difference. Probably not the cleanest, has alittle flash to it but fun to shoot.

[MadRabbit]

Bullseye here too- 4.5-5.0gr used mostly under 200gr wheel weight SWC's.

[Akyla]

Sorry. Newbie here. I've tried searching but can't find anything. What is a "PET" load? Thanks!!

[Colorado Osprey]

Sorry. Newbie here. I've tried searching but can't find anything. What is a "PET" load? Thanks!!

A load you like that shoots well for you.... if you reload.

[Akyla]

A load you like that shoots well for you.... if you reload.

Thanks. I just starting reloading about a week ago.

Does "PET" stand for anything or is it just a common term regarding this type of load.

Do PET loads typically fall between the starting and maximum powder range?

[theGinsue]

Thanks. I just starting reloading about a week ago.

Does "PET" stand for anything or is it just a common term regarding this type of load.


Naw, the term "pet" is used like saying "your favorite dog". It's definitely a term versus an acronym (i.e. it doesn't stand for anything).

As you reload/shoot, you'll find there will be certain loads that just shoot better through your gun(s) and just feel right for you. These will become your "pet" loads. You may have more than one pet load in the same caliber. Usually this happens when you are shooting different weights of bullets or shooting the same bullet through different firearms (each gun will shoot the same cartridge/load differently).


Do PET loads typically fall between the starting and maximum powder range?

Almost absolutely, yes! Until you are a lot more experienced with reloading and REALLY know your stuff, you will want to adhere to staying within the specified MIN & MAX loads. Of course, you'll note that different relaoding manuals will show different MIN's and MAX's, but the variances are typically minimal. I typically like to use the reloading manual of the manufacturer of the bullet I'm using so I can use tested data.

Only those with plenty of experience know how to build a load that falls outside of the listed MIN/MAX without running into an under-pressure/over-pressure problem (and even then, it's often guesswork).

Reloading isn't something that lends itself well to freelancing.

Since you are so new to reloading, be sure to watch this Forum for lots of very useful information (I get lots of good tidbits quite often). If you aren't sure about something, don't hesitate to post your question on this forum!

[Akyla]

Thanks for the awesome reply Ginsue! That helps a lot. I am definately not pushing the limits as I start reloading. Not something I want to mess around with.

I will keep coming back to the forum for great info. Thanks again!

[Beer]

[gengra]

I've been meaning to do this for a while. Last time I typed it all up (Slow typer, man hands) put a lot of good info in and lost my connection (timed out I guess) and just didn't want to retype it all. This time I did the cut and paste thing.
So here we go, I built ~500 rounds with Hodgdon: Universal Clays Technology. They shot Good, Hard, very accurate. I used 230gr fmj RN, Universal 6.1grs +,- (little less than bottle rate at 6.4 (rate@6.4) gr). Ran a bunch of strings, they ran lows ~960 , Highs ~980 fps SD 14.11. Bottle speed is at 977 fps.
I really was happy with the performance out of the pistols. The carbine not so much. They worked fine -- but doing the reloading thing I know that I can make them Better. So, I have built some Using HS-6 with 230 gr. fmj FP just for the carbine. The 230's worked fine in the pistols but I want to see / feel / test accuracy -- difference between 185gr and 230gr. I'm going to try Horndey XP 185s.
I loaded ~300 rds with Hodgdon: Clays at 4.2 grs +,- useing 230gr. FP and XP's. They shot Great, Sharp / Crisp. I shot Many strings, low
690's, Highs 740's SD 17.59 Average 719 ftps. I am really happy with these results. SD can always be better.
Loaded ~75 rds of Flat nose 230grs with HS-6 that I have not shot.

The Dillon 650's "NEW" toolhead ,45 acp, thru charges +,- .15 -.2 for the Universal, +,- .1 for the Clays and HS-6 was the BEST for metering, I threw perfect 8.0 grains ever time. WOW! I did change out the bar -- because I have an extra, I was thinking of having one set at 4.2 and the other at 8.0 -- but probley not worth the hassel. I feel that's just the HS-6 flakes.
But the 45 tool head still feels rough (new). Here again this can be better. I figured 800 rds just got it dialed in. I will be taking some of the sharp edges off and polishing things up ASAP.
Just wanted to share my results.
G

[SA Friday]

Be very selective on what you polish on that reloader. If you have any smidgen of a doubt, don't do it. Th only thing I would recommend polishing is the inside of the powder throw funnel. Other than that, I wouldn't recommend polishing anything.

The reason you are seeing a higher SD from clays is it's a faster burning powder. UC is in the middle of the three and HS-6 is much slower. Slower powders give more of a push recoil and the faster burning powders are sharp and abrupt recoils. Pushing a 230gr bullet into the 900's is getting pretty hot. Make sure you are checking those cases for pressure signs before going higher with UC. The charts may show you have room, but the cases may say something different. If the cases are good, that's a pretty good defensive round velocity for a 230gr HP.

HS-6 is going to meter a lot better than the other two powders as it's tiny flakes vs the larger flufflier flakes of UC and Clays. I can get both UC and Clays to meter to +/- 0.1gr most of the time. It just takes a really consistant lever pull. Polishing the powder funnel will help too.

[waxthis]

I've had great luck with 5.2 gr Clays, CCI primers, and barry's 185 gr Hollow base round nose bullets. This set up seems to have less snap then factory 230's in my XD-45, I can shoot em all day long. I believe chrono was around 950 or so...I'll double check and post If I'm mistaken.


I stand corrected...After chrono today with the 5.0 Gr Clays....

High 893 FPS
Low 854 FPS
AVG 873 FPS

[jmg8550]

When you guys say clay's, is it universal clay's or international clay's? I have used unique and really like it. fairly clean and very reliable. I run 5.9gr for my 1911 operator. pushing 230gr ball berry's double struck.

[SA Friday]

When you guys say clay's, is it universal clay's or international clay's? I have used unique and really like it. fairly clean and very reliable. I run 5.9gr for my 1911 operator. pushing 230gr ball berry's double struck.
There are three powders with 'clays' in the nomenclature. Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays. International clays is pretty touchie stuff for pistol reloads, and very very rarely used. I won't use it at all for pistol or shotgun, and most of the guys pumping out bu-ku ammo every year typically don't either. Universal clays is typically denoted as UC or Univ. Clays, and Clays is typically just called clays or straight clays.

UC and clays will work in 45 ACP, but straight clays is considered by many as the best 45 ACP powder out there. UC is also a good powder, but has a slower burn rate. I've used pounds and pounds of both clays and UC in multiple pistol and shotgun reloads. Either will get the job done. Choice between the two is personal feel more than anything.

[jmg8550]

Ok thanks. Hey not to hijack the thread, I have some Univ. clay's. What is a good load for 230gr ball?

[waxthis]

When you guys say clay's, is it universal clay's or international clay's? I have used unique and really like it. fairly clean and very reliable. I run 5.9gr for my 1911 operator. pushing 230gr ball berry's double struck.
FYI........

http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss170/waxthis/Clays.jpg

[Beer]

[SA Friday]

Ok thanks. Hey not to hijack the thread, I have some Univ. clay's. What is a good load for 230gr ball?
The internet knows all...

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[smchop]

Anyone use Hodgdon HS-6 as a slower powder for .45 acp? Looking to load a slower 230 gr bullet with more push than snap. Any comments welcome, Thanks.

[tmckay2]

i use 231 with 230 grain .45 plated bullets. definitely accurate, though i am not a great shooter with my .45 yet. the nice thing about reloading for a 1911 in .45 is i can load the powder a bit light, still maintain accuracy at a similar distance, but lower the recoil just a bit.