View Full Version : Company that would build underground Shooting lane on private property?
I have enough property I have kicked around this idea. Obviously it wouldn't be cheap and there are some legalities to consider. But does anyone know a company that would consider such a things in the Denver area?
The dudes hanging around in front of Home Depot should be able to get that done in a few hours.
Tell them it's a tunnel to get under a fence.
Great-Kazoo
02-04-2017, 16:06
Culvert pipe what ever distance you want. Some kind of system to bring targets to & from berm (clothes line pulley system) works. A few fans behind shooter to move air downrange. You're looking at $75 - 100K easy for a 1 lane range built to indoor spec, not including permits, opposition from common sense neighbors and getting the county to sign off.
here's a link for your reading entertainment. The prices quoted are on the conservative side, for a multi lane unit. They do give some numbers for single lane. We looked in to a commercial lot indoor range 20 - 25 years ago. At that time it was $1 million ish for a 25 yard, 10 - 15 lane building, land not included.
http://www.shooting-academy.com/media/building%20an%20indoor%20shooting%20range.pdf
There was a company I saw maybe 2 to 3 years ago that did this sort of thing (though more commercial than private usually) and I talked to the guy about it some. He thought a simple one lane one could be done for 20k or so. But I'll be damned if I can't find his info again.
A guy I shot with had to build a retaining wall, and while he was at it asked the city if he could turn it into a "wine cellar". 25 yards long.
72" concrete pipe costs +or- 500$ a linear foot to install. The end caps, venting, and everything else would all be more. The per foot price would spike as well if a decent footage wasn't needed.
Sounds like a simple DIY project if you ask me.
[Sarcasm2]
gnihcraes
02-04-2017, 22:02
Big trench and connex shipping containers buried.
http://denver.craigslist.org/fod/5953350847.html
Big trench and connex shipping containers buried.
http://denver.craigslist.org/fod/5953350847.html
Don't bury Conex boxes. Bad things happen. They are meant to be stacked with the pressure on the edges - not over the center.
Don't bury Conex boxes. Bad things happen. They are meant to be stacked with the pressure on the edges - not over the center.
I want to see pictures of the failure. Assume less than 10' to top.
kidicarus13
02-04-2017, 23:05
I want to see pictures of the failure. Assume less than 10' to top.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/dd5f212ac9d008d83f30f3febd649332.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/dd5f212ac9d008d83f30f3febd649332.jpg
Thanks, I assume someone was driving on it??
Either during backfill or after. I've had crew members destroy corrugated metal pipe immediately after installation, but it will hold up for thirty years if it's not point loaded. It looks like the dirt is very wet too. That would add a lot of pressure.
buffalobo
02-04-2017, 23:13
Sounds like a simple DIY project if you ask me.
[Sarcasm2]
If I had some coin I would DYI. No permissions needed, just money.
Grant H.
02-04-2017, 23:48
Thanks, I assume someone was driving on it??
Either during backfill or after. I've had crew members destroy corrugated metal pipe immediately after installation, but it will hold up for thirty years if it's not point loaded. It looks like the dirt is very wet too. That would add a lot of pressure.
I doubt anyone was driving on it.
These are built to carry the load very specifically, and when the load isn't in the right places, they fail very quickly.
I doubt anyone was driving on it.
These are built to carry the load very specifically, and when the load isn't in the right places, they fail very quickly.
Did the dirt get there by itself?
I'm a Mason and need a place to shoot. They even make sound deadening block that I've used on high school gyms to keep the sound to a minimum.
Look into box culverts, pre-cast concrete, made to be underground.
Precast pipe/culverts are probably more expensive in the end than just digging a trench and forming/pouring concrete walls and a ceiling in place.
Backstop, lighting, target mover and ventilation will add to the price.
As far as who would build it.. Pretty much any contractor could do the job if you had the design and specs laid out.
BPTactical
02-05-2017, 12:16
Consider water table and drainage as well.
Precast pipe/culverts are probably more expensive in the end than just digging a trench and forming/pouring concrete walls and a ceiling in place.
Backstop, lighting, target mover and ventilation will add to the price.
As far as who would build it.. Pretty much any contractor could do the job if you had the design and specs laid out.
It's actually more the design and specs that's the problem. Obviously you'd want to do it right the first time. Ideally you have someone who has done something with Shooting ranges before so they can know what you need but also where to save.
Consider water table and drainage as well.
Yes, very important.
It's actually more the design and specs that's the problem. Obviously you'd want to do it right the first time. Ideally you have someone who has done something with Shooting ranges before so they can know what you need but also where to save.
Precast is almost always cheaper. Otherwise you'd see more cast in place culverts.
Precast is almost always cheaper. Otherwise you'd see more cast in place culverts.
Depends.. The advantage of Precast in a civil engineering/construction situation is that you get speed of installation over cost of product. Precast is also going to limit you to a specific size and shape that is available on the market. The size of the project is going to be a big determiner of which system is used.
Bailey Guns
02-05-2017, 16:10
Depending on how big and what amenities you want (power, lighting, ventilation, etc...), it might be cheaper to buy a piece of land somewhere where you can just shoot whatever, whenever. And you'd still have land.
Depending on how big and what amenities you want (power, lighting, ventilation, etc...), it might be cheaper to buy a piece of land somewhere where you can just shoot whatever, whenever. And you'd still have land.
Yep.
If this underground range is tied to residential property, it could negatively impact your property value.
Yep.
If this underground range is tied to residential property, it could negatively impact your property value.
Valid points, however, if you want to buy property to shoot on you are looking at buying out in Pawnee or something. Which is fine except why not just shoot at pawnee. Sort of defeats the purpose. The idea is to be able to go blast away whenever. And while it can affect property value, we built our forever home so until we simply can't care for the home anymore we plan to stay there. Obviously things change, but frankly property values can go up or down depending on anything you do, such as a pool, shed, whatever. Some people want it, some dont.
Great-Kazoo
02-05-2017, 18:20
Valid points, however, if you want to buy property to shoot on you are looking at buying out in Pawnee or something. Which is fine except why not just shoot at pawnee. Sort of defeats the purpose. The idea is to be able to go blast away whenever. And while it can affect property value, we built our forever home so until we simply can't care for the home anymore we plan to stay there. Obviously things change, but frankly property values can go up or down depending on anything you do, such as a pool, shed, whatever. Some people want it, some dont.
Another issue is Lead Mitigation. Building it correctly with permits and associated cost will, again, put you in the $50-100K range. You have well water? Once a neighbor gets wind of it (zoning hearing) they'll shut you down real quick. Under the guise of lead leaching in to ground water and other assorted "panic" issues.
.
The area surrounding Liberty Range face hysterics from the time it was announced. What if, how come, why, what about the children, shit mentality. If you have just 1 I'm With Hillary or Bernie 2016 sticker in your area, GFL.
this isnt exactly true. you arent thinking about...your safety. nobody shooting around you. not having to take down or set up targets, etc. I have an 800 meter range out my back door, AR500 steel plates at every 100 meters and a bunch at 100. You cant drive off road let alone leave targets at the Pawnee. I can run my 4wheeler out, paint targets, etc. So there are some advantages.
I doubt any contractor would do this without a permit of some sort. (you may find the right person). I cant image the county would let you put in an underground range. Sure you can shoot on your property above ground, but when you start wanting to do permanent things, they want public hearings, safety studies, environmental impact reports, noise mitigation, traffic and who knows what else.
That being said you could easily bury a 3-4 foot diameter galvanized culvert and dig an underground block lined structure to shoot from. I think larue had something like that. Im sure that isnt what you are wanting though. Good luck though if you can swing it, I would be nice. For me, I dont mind the elements and couldnt ever afford a proper underground structure.
I can't possibly imagine any convenience factor of having to purchase the property vs the spot I have at pawnee now. I drive off road no problem, super flat, elevated ground for bavk stop, no major roads, hidden from the road, 1000 yard range easy. Now if I lived out there sure it would be useful. To buy a piece that I have to drive to just like I do to the public land I shoot on? What's the point? I'd have a hard time finding a better piece AND I would have to pay for it.
Another issue is Lead Mitigation. Building it correctly with permits and associated cost will, again, put you in the $50-100K range. You have well water? Once a neighbor gets wind of it (zoning hearing) they'll shut you down real quick. Under the guise of lead leaching in to ground water and other assorted "panic" issues.
.
The area surrounding Liberty Range face hysterics from the time it was announced. What if, how come, why, what about the children, shit mentality. If you have just 1 I'm With Hillary or Bernie 2016 sticker in your area, GFL.
Lead mitigation isn't really a problem. The fella and I discussed that and had a few solutions. Neighbors would actually be the biggest issue, though they aren't extreme liberals as we have discussed guns and such before.
The idea is you don't say "hey I'm building a gun range". You have it designed but when building call it somrthing else, just as people with safe rooms and vaults often do. The issue is simply the legalities of shooting, even underground, as well as neighbors hearing it. Even with sound proofing it could be a problem. Get those two things figured out then it's simply money.
Another issue is Lead Mitigation.
This is the primary issue in my comment about affecting property value. It's not a matter of whether or not new owners want a range or not. If it's attached to the home, any future buyer will be concerned about lead making its way into the living spaces.
Did the dirt get there by itself?
Second the bad idea to bury Conex boxes. Plenty of info on the subject across the net.
Use curragated metal or plastic drain pipes, they are much cheaper and resistant to crushing forces.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/479009691db5d4f7a8420a3c1f87837b.jpg
Bury as many of these end to end as you need/can fit or afford, running from your basement connected to a "new septic tank" so that you can access the backstop easily to reclaim lead, and maintain the target backers. Use 4"x4" timbers to create a frame that has a repurposed materials conveyer belt section covering it, and shredded rubber pellets as a bullet catcher.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Great-Kazoo
02-05-2017, 19:58
Lead mitigation isn't really a problem. The fella and I discussed that and had a few solutions. Neighbors would actually be the biggest issue, though they aren't extreme liberals as we have discussed guns and such before.
The idea is you don't say "hey I'm building a gun range". You have it designed but when building call it somrthing else, just as people with safe rooms and vaults often do. The issue is simply the legalities of shooting, even underground, as well as neighbors hearing it. Even with sound proofing it could be a problem. Get those two things figured out then it's simply money.
Curious who you're talking to to say it isn't a problem ? You want an underground range, go for it. IF you ever sell your home, or there's an issue with a neighbor. Better have a good lawyer and very deep pockets. Those EPA fuktards get wind of a range, especially underground and they didn't have input.................
Now if you do it, don't say anything to anyone. Rent a backhoe or find a forum member with one, pay them $$ do the install on a week day and call it good.
Second the bad idea to bury Conex boxes. Plenty of info on the subject across the net.
Use curragated metal or plastic drain pipes, they are much cheaper and resistant to crushing forces.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
I don't disagree, I just bet I could do it successfully if I tried.
I don't disagree, I just bet I could do it successfully if I tried.
It can absolutely be done, it's just the additional cost of rebar, concrete, and
I- Beams would negate any real cost savings unless the materials are free, you own the necessary equipment, and you value your own time for labor at the same rate as a Mexican lettuce picker.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Nah, just clean sandy backfill, placed carefully. Maybe an underdrain and good drainage away. I bet most of these are installed by goofy bubba types.
thedave1164
02-06-2017, 08:50
LFI was only a $23,000,000 investment
Grant H.
02-06-2017, 19:02
Did the dirt get there by itself?
Of course not, however, back filling doesn't require driving on it...
Conex shipping containers are designed to carry the weight in the corners. The only real structural metal is the very corners of them. The walls and ceiling are 14ga corrugated steel.
Without significant reinforcement, 8' spans of 14ga steel cannot support the weight of dirt, whether it's light sandy back fill or otherwise.
Well, I'm not willing to buy one and bury it, but the dirt in the pics is saturated and I bet they compacted the shot out of it. I've seen a lot of blown out concrete walls from bad backfill and especially overly wet dirt.
Great-Kazoo
02-06-2017, 20:18
Well, I'm not willing to buy one and bury it, but the dirt in the pics is saturated and I bet they compacted the shot out of it. I've seen a lot of blown out concrete walls from bad backfill and especially overly wet dirt.
If you look at underground bunkers on line, you'll see they are all cylinder shaped. Same for any underground pipe. A square or rectangle shape cannot handle load like a cylinder can when put in the ground. Even a foundation (over time) starts showing cracks.
Goodburbon
02-07-2017, 00:04
I have a buried a conex. It's been fine for 5 years now. I did substantially reinforce it though and it's only 40' long.
A company developing tracer technology hired a friends wife to engineer a multiple conex range, it can be done. According to her The cross section of 14 ga at a high incident angle is sufficient enough to withstand the needs. An internal backstop may be required to maintain integrity of the end.
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I know of at least one home in a very nice residential area that has a rather narrow 'bowling alley' in the basement. I've never seen a bowling ball in said home. Sadly, it isn't my home....but I don't bowl so it's a moot point.
I know of at least one home in a very nice residential area that has a rather narrow 'bowling alley' in the basement. I've never seen a bowling ball in said home. Sadly, it isn't my home....but I don't bowl so it's a moot point.
I've worked on 3 homes in the Denver area over the years that have indoor ranges.. They are large homes and the ranges are built just as a commercial range..
It's not a permit issue or anything else other than a matter of cost.. How much money do you ave to spend?
I thought you were talking about buying and moving to it. no buying the land just to shoot on wouldnt be good.
Haha gotcha. Your comment makes sense now since there was that confusion.
Curious who you're talking to to say it isn't a problem ? You want an underground range, go for it. IF you ever sell your home, or there's an issue with a neighbor. Better have a good lawyer and very deep pockets. Those EPA fuktards get wind of a range, especially underground and they didn't have input.................
Now if you do it, don't say anything to anyone. Rent a backhoe or find a forum member with one, pay them $$ do the install on a week day and call it good.
I more just mean we talked about the lead issue way back when and there are some affordable solutions for a single lane private range that commercial ranges just don't have.
Or, you could just shoot inside your house
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUlLXNPCap4
cfortune
03-14-2017, 10:49
Or, you could just shoot inside your house
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUlLXNPCap4
lol I can't believe he actually shot that thing with a 300 WM
I thought I remembered reading a thread a while back where Mark Larue built something like that:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/177561_Containers_set_____8___27_update____LaRue_2 5_yard_Underground_Range_.html
There may be more info somewhere, I didn't search too deep.
clodhopper
03-14-2017, 12:56
I've worked on 3 homes in the Denver area over the years that have indoor ranges.. They are large homes and the ranges are built just as a commercial range..
It's not a permit issue or anything else other than a matter of cost.. How much money do you ave to spend?
We engineered an underground lane on a residential lot in the FoCo area. I can't say for who, but many would recognize the name. Anyhoo, it was spendy, but so was the house and everything else on the project. Nothing fancy on the permit side of things.
The fellow had a big vault installed in the basement that doubled as a panic room. The shoot lane was the back door for the panic room and ran out underground to a little outbuilding that was the exit. It allowed him to have the technicians come and do maintenance on the targeting systems and whatnot without needing to access the house, and, if they had to use the panic room, could discreetly escape without being seen. The main concept was he could hang with his buddies in the big, fancy gun vault and pop off rounds whenever they wanted.
newracer
03-14-2017, 18:47
I bet I know who that is.
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clodhopper
03-15-2017, 07:42
Shhh!
Great-Kazoo
03-15-2017, 08:19
Shhh!
Can i see their roofs from here? Cause they sure as hell are not stingy when it comes to lighting.
LFI was only a $23,000,000 investment
Says who??
Zundfolge
09-12-2018, 20:03
It seems to me it would be cheaper to just buy a large property outside of town and build your own outdoor range. And the way this state is headed it might be a good idea to buy that property outside the state. If we get half the "blue wave" expected here in Colorado, you can expect to see California style gun control passed in the next year or so.
ChickNorris
09-12-2018, 20:09
I live in the city & county of Denver.
There's really a difference?
[Sarcasm2]
Grant H.
09-12-2018, 20:15
Says who??
Holy necro-thread revival...
ChickNorris
09-12-2018, 20:36
Buh-nuh-nuh-na-na-na-na DEAD THREAD, dead thread... BANG! KAPOW! IEEEE!
Says who??
That's gotta be the weirdest thread revival I've ever seen
hurley842002
09-13-2018, 08:04
That's gotta be the weirdest thread revival I've ever seenMeh, he's a newb, it's not nearly as weird as his multiple thread revivals about ranges, and nothing in the introduction thread.
Great-Kazoo
09-13-2018, 08:26
Says who??
People who work there, for one.
If one Searches hard enough they could find info about anyone's tax rolls? as well as other interesting things from the city, county and state web sites.
hurley842002
09-13-2018, 08:52
first thing I thought yesterday was shill. I guess Im too negative.Same here, guess we are negative or jaded, one of the two.
Maybe we're just "seasoned".
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Sorry, you've got bad information. Not even close.
hurley842002
09-29-2018, 11:51
Sorry, you've got bad information. Not even close.
If you hit the little "REPLY WITH QUOTE" tab on the lower right hand corner (like I did), we will all know who you are responding to.
Maybe we're just "seasoned".
Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk
Like smoked fish...
Quasi-shitposting-in-zombie-thread and thinking about the potential of more restrictions on shooting on public lands...
Couldn't we pool some cash and build our own CO AR15 rifle range? I'd be willing to invest. Nothing fancy, something like the service ranges out to 500M with a few lanes to 800M. Just plow, level, and build berms.
There are lots of places for handguns around the city but few for long distance/rifles.
BladesNBarrels
09-29-2018, 14:45
Ben Lomond Gun Club - was once welcomed in Palmer Lake. Times changed and they were shunned and moved out east of Kiowa.
https://www.blgc.org/club-info/88-club-history.html
Quasi-shitposting-in-zombie-thread and thinking about the potential of more restrictions on shooting on public lands...
Couldn't we pool some cash and build our own CO AR15 rifle range? I'd be willing to invest. Nothing fancy, something like the service ranges out to 500M with a few lanes to 800M. Just plow, level, and build berms.
There are lots of places for handguns around the city but few for long distance/rifles.
I got $5 on it
Great-Kazoo
09-29-2018, 16:00
I'd donate. But concerned about an anti gun opinion / hit piece about out of state dark money ')
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