View Full Version : The White Paper On Firearms Regulations
Does this have legs or just blowing more smoke?
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-white-paper-on-firearms-regulations/2325/
A white paper by the second highest-ranking official at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Internal document lays outs several proposals to reduce firearms regulations.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/senior-atf-official-proposes-loosening-gun-regulations/2017/02/06/beeb1120-ec7c-11e6-9662-6eedf1627882_story.html?utm_term=.c8daba686376
The second-highest-ranking official at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has written a proposal to reduce gun regulations, including examining a possible end to the ban on importing assault weapons into the United States.
GilpinGuy
02-06-2017, 23:39
After a quick perusal, there seems to be a lot of logic in this guy's paper. Therefore, government will reject it.
We can hope though.
Great-Kazoo
02-07-2017, 00:43
Potential for some items, or so i've heard from a few sources. The HPA might become reality in the next year and 1/2.
The question is when presented what items if it becomes a congressional issue, would those opposed add to a bill to make it unacceptable to those supporting
Say PP gets defunded. The opposing team throws wording in the bill to not only re-fund PP, but forces Hobby Lobby to pay for any and all contraceptives.
One can only hope for the best outcome. A Tiger and mags for under $1500, count me in.
Kazoo, I hate the way they do shit like that.
I was surprised to read about this in the grossly liberal Denver Post. Of course there were comments from hand-wringing ninnies, but still.....
I won't hold my breath on most of them, but I'll take any opportunity I can get to help them along.
Rucker61
02-08-2017, 09:49
I was surprised to read about this in the grossly liberal Denver Post. Of course there were comments from hand-wringing ninnies, but still.....
I wasn't able to find the story on DP online.
The ATF would like nothing more than to satiate gun owners via administrative changes. They would be able to continue to justify their bloated bureaucracy and when an anti-gun administration comes back into power, they could return to their old ways by a mere change in enforcement, as easily as they're doing now.
It's smoke and mirrors, don't fall for it. We need to drive legislative changes that will tie their hands and hopefully put a ton of them out of a job.
As I read somewhere else, don't fool yourself into believing that the ATF has had a "Come to Jesus moment". They are like a living, breathing entity that is trying to protect itself.
O2
Rucker61
02-09-2017, 11:14
The ATF would like nothing more than to satiate gun owners via administrative changes. They would be able to continue to justify their bloated bureaucracy and when an anti-gun administration comes back into power, they could return to their old ways by a mere change in enforcement, as easily as they're doing now.
They're smaller now than they were in 2001.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-atf-staffing-and-budget
It's smoke and mirrors, don't fall for it. We need to drive legislative changes that will tie their hands and hopefully put a ton of them out of a job.
They have a job that they need to do better:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf
In 2010, 76,000 prohibited persons were denied via a NICS check, including 34k felons and 13k fugitives. Of that 76k, 4700 were sent by ATF to the field for further investigation. 62 cases were referred for prosecution. 13 (13!) were convicted. These are the folks that go on to buy guns for crimes through straw purchases, illegal street sales and through theft. They committed a felony when they tried to buy the gun from an FFL. With these people off the streets we'd see a bigger impact to crime reduction than can be expected from new gun control, and we can use those numbers against the anti's.
As I read somewhere else, don't fool yourself into believing that the ATF has had a "Come to Jesus moment". They are like a living, breathing entity that is trying to protect itself.
O2
i think it's more likely that this was an application letter for the current deputy head of ATF to become the permanent head of ATF. Pretty well written, in that case.
DireWolf
02-09-2017, 13:35
They're smaller now than they were in 2001.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-atf-staffing-and-budget
They have a job that they need to do better:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf
In 2010, 76,000 prohibited persons were denied via a NICS check, including 34k felons and 13k fugitives. Of that 76k, 4700 were sent by ATF to the field for further investigation. 62 cases were referred for prosecution. 13 (13!) were convicted. These are the folks that go on to buy guns for crimes through straw purchases, illegal street sales and through theft. They committed a felony when they tried to buy the gun from an FFL. With these people off the streets we'd see a bigger impact to crime reduction than can be expected from new gun control, and we can use those numbers against the anti's.
i think it's more likely that this was an application letter for the current deputy head of ATF to become the permanent head of ATF. Pretty well written, in that case.
I see absolutely no reason those productive endeavors couldn't be handled by the FBI, and likely in a far more effective fashion...
BATFE should never have been allowed to exist/persist (at least as a law enforcement agency), and the new Administration has an opportunity to correct a massive wrong which has been inflicted upon American Citizens....
I checked the LinkedIn page of the author of the leaked white paper, and there are a couple of indicators that he may be, well, if not one of us, then at least someone who's reasonable.
His paper has a lot of reasonable suggestions, and I suspect some of them might be either a reaction to Trump's "for every 1 new reg, delete 2", or an attempt to curry favor with the administration. That makes me somewhat hopeful that ATF would like to enter an era where they are more reasonable.
Also, the American Suppressor Association posted a note on Facebook today that they've been meeting with ATF reps about the HPA, which seems really unprecedented. I can't think of a single time in my life when there has been an amicable meeting between a gun rights organization and ATF. So, that gives me hope as well.
If nothing else, the best we can do is continue to call on our legislators to fix the law, and point out that even the ATF considers this fix to be a good idea.
Aloha_Shooter
02-09-2017, 13:42
I see absolutely no reason those productive endeavors couldn't be handled by the FBI, and likely in a far more effective fashion...
BATFE should never have been allowed to exist/persist (at least as a law enforcement agency), and the new Administration has an opportunity to correct a massive wrong which has been inflicted upon American Citizens....
If the job were transferred to the FBI, they'd have to hire additional people and would likely end up with the same people that are doing it now. I prefer to keep each federal agency as small as possible and minimize the eventual empire-building and expansion of agency "projects" that comes with increased responsibilities. IMO, keep the FBI focused on investigating threats to the country and keep the ATF focused on administering taxes on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms (which is what they were supposed to be doing) -- just reduce the ATF in size and scope so they can't self-initiate stuff like they did under Holder.
DireWolf
02-09-2017, 13:56
If the job were transferred to the FBI, they'd have to hire additional people and would likely end up with the same people that are doing it now. I prefer to keep each federal agency as small as possible and minimize the eventual empire-building and expansion of agency "projects" that comes with increased responsibilities.
That's a very good point.
...keep the ATF focused on administering taxes on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms (which is what they were supposed to be doing) -- just reduce the ATF in size and scope so they can't self-initiate stuff like they did under Holder.
I think this is entirely reasonable, the key being that they should become fully admin/clerical in nature, and need to engage with local LE or FBI/SS/etc. for any "field enforcement", etc...
Rucker61
02-09-2017, 14:37
If the job were transferred to the FBI, they'd have to hire additional people and would likely end up with the same people that are doing it now. I prefer to keep each federal agency as small as possible and minimize the eventual empire-building and expansion of agency "projects" that comes with increased responsibilities. IMO, keep the FBI focused on investigating threats to the country and keep the ATF focused on administering taxes on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms (which is what they were supposed to be doing) -- just reduce the ATF in size and scope so they can't self-initiate stuff like they did under Holder.
Good points. It would be nice to have someone arresting all those felons before they commit more crimes, though.
Aloha_Shooter
02-09-2017, 17:12
Good points. It would be nice to have someone arresting all those felons before they commit more crimes, though.
Easy ... they should act through either the local police or US Marshals when they find a violation. If we were to truly practice federalism as envisioned by the Founding Fathers, most crimes pursued by the federal government should have to be prosecuted through local authorities.
I'm not holding my breath concerning reform at the ATF (or any of the alphabet monstrosities), but I'll gladly accept a reduction in regulation if it should come about. This white paper is most likely nothing, but it could be a start.
Rucker61
02-09-2017, 19:12
Easy ... they should act through either the local police or US Marshals when they find a violation. If we were to truly practice federalism as envisioned by the Founding Fathers, most crimes pursued by the federal government should have to be prosecuted through local authorities.
Works for me. They'd certainly get there quicker than the feds, and who wouldn't want to arrest felons?
most crimes pursued by the federal government should have to be prosecuted through local authorities.
Like selling marijuana?
Oh, and as far as the BATFE being efficient, I propose we let the local DMV handle things for a while and see if anyone notices a difference.
Does this have legs or just blowing more smoke?
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-white-paper-on-firearms-regulations/2325/
People in government agencies write these "White Papers" all the time as part of their job. They rarely lead to actual changes. Besides, half the things mentioned in there are laws that were passed by congress of which only congress can pass a law to then change or remove them.
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