View Full Version : Disappearing standard transmissions!
JohnnyDrama
02-07-2017, 20:52
What happened to "getting there is half the fun".
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ownership/why-are-manual-transmissions-disappearing/ar-BBwHYFp?ocid=spartandhp
People need to put down their cell phones and drive!
I see too many people while I'm out walking the dogs with one hand on a drink/fries/cigarette and the other on their phone to have their minds on the road.
Colorado is a great place to drive a standard. People with automatics are missing out.
Just a rant. Carry on.
Standard transmissions have too many things you have to do...results in distracted driving...messing with one thing with one hand and something different with the other...feet doing opposite motions in a certain offset ratio...you cannot expect the government purse-string types to be able to handle all that without wiping out another family of illegals.
Agree completely. My car is a 6-speed.
The technology has come so far they are just no longer superior.
Zundfolge
02-07-2017, 21:13
All my vehicles are sticks, over the years I've owned probably two dozen cars and only two of them were automatics (the very first, a 1969 Mustang Fastback I had in Highschool and a Dodge Intrepid owned in the early 00s).
That said, for off-road (especially rock crawling) an auto is probably the better choice (to be fair, I'm too stubborn ... my CJ has a stick).
What happened to "getting there is half the fun".
Soon we'll have self driving cars so getting there won't even be a little fun.
Damn kids and their fancy slush boxes.
An auto trans and it's valve body and clutch packs etc etc are the only thing I know nothing of
I can fix clutches and normal gears all day long. I have owned one auto since I got my license.
I could get so much more done during my day with a self driving vehicle. I can't wait! I mean, I wouldn't get more done, but I could.
I miss manuals as well.
gnihcraes
02-07-2017, 21:48
5 vehicles, three are manual. Somehow I remember the shift pattern in each one too. Skip gears in some. Some day I want to drive a big rig manual just to say I did.
Just cost $400 to have the fluid changed in the Jeep with the CVT. (had to pay dealer to keep warranty going)
$20 or less on a manual usually for the same fluid change.
I just taught my daughter how to drive...on a five speed manual. It took her a bit to get over the curve, but once she did, she realized that she enjoys driving a manual transmission. She was worried that she wouldn't be able to drive an automatic and I told her not to worry, the most dangerous thing about driving an automatic is getting bored and not paying attention because the machine is making decisions for you.
Different strokes, but if you have the ability to drive a manual, you can obviously drive an automatic. Every stick is different and learning the nuances to a new clutch is half the fun of driving IMO.
Be safe.
Shooter45
02-07-2017, 22:12
For new cars a standard transmission (manual) is special request to get. Blew my mind recently trying to get a new car
GilpinGuy
02-07-2017, 22:28
I like manual for "fun" driving, including 4 wheelin (even though I know auto is better) but for just getting around auto is easier.
I learned to drive in my dad's ancient Dodge pickup with 3 on the tree and no 1st gear. LOL
And self driving cars and trucks.....man, it's gonna be interesting how it shakes out. Cool stuff IMHO.
The big rig shifting is over rated especially in Denver traffic. Going 3rd-9th in a 18 speed over over and over
I could make it happen ghin if you want
Learned to drive in an old Chevy pickup with a three on the tree.
Took my driving test in my Duster with a stick.
Now I drive auto's. Bad knees and days in traffic in years past pushed me away from manuals.
One of the vehicle I own now is 6mt.
I really do not like "heel-to-toe" down shifting before the corner.
With that being said, yes dual clutch type of transmission w/ paddle is far efficient than manual gearbox.
MT drivers sometimes do not downshift to an optimal rpm at certain times. If there is less than <600 rpm difference from optimal range (example @6000rpm, and optimal is at 6500+), I just don't bother downshifting. It takes longer time to shift twice.
Scanker19
02-07-2017, 23:04
I want a Manual because I don't want to pay for an additional anti-theft device.
With the lockouts on the newer automatics, they're not an easy mark for theft.
I learned on a manual. If I get a sports car at some point, it'll likely have a manual. Otherwise, I'm just getting around and an auto is easy.
My prediction on self-driving cars: Manufacturers will take on liabilities currently owned by the driver/owner. Some horrendous accidents and huge lawsuits will remove them as an option.
Standard transmission is the automatic. Manuals are now options.
I learned how to drive in an automatic and earn money with a standard. There was nothing like backing a cement truck down a 45 degree angle grade with full load and a sharp turn at the end in low low gear. The scary part was watching the imbecile spotter trying to back me off the road and into the river. My pickup has a 5 speed with a low first so really just a 4 speed. Its fun to hear valets tell me how hard it was to drive because first was so low. [LOL]
Aloha_Shooter
02-08-2017, 06:05
My parents insisted I (and my siblings) learn manual and my first car was manual. My second car had Chrysler's Auto Stick because I was convinced I wanted manual control of the up/down-shift every now and then -- I used it a grand total of 3 times and that included the test drive. To this day I keep my hand on the stick and experience a ghost clutch but the reality is that auto transmission is superior for city driving. I still advocate kids learn on a manual because it teaches the to listen to the engine and transmission (or should) but it's a real pain to find one anymore.
Now I drive auto's. Bad knees and days in traffic in years past pushed me away from manuals.
Same here. I swore I would never get an automatic until knee surgery and Denver metro traffic. One thing I have always liked about automatics is the ability to left foot brake. Now because my left knee is the better one it reinforces the left foot braking thing too.
Bailey Guns
02-08-2017, 07:28
I've never liked manual transmission vehicles...except the old "3 on the tree" types. Had an old Bronco with a column shifter and for some reason I just like those. Reminds me of simpler times or some other nostalgic reason.
At work I usually drive an automatic Freightliner or a 13-spd Peterbilt when my truck is not available. Shifting that transmission for 10 hours makes for a long day. I'll take the auto any day. I won't miss the manuals if they disappear. I know some will, though.
Started driving in 1985. I think it was 2002 when I got my first vehicle with an automatic transmission. I always liked the manuals because it gave me control of what gear I was in and when I wanted to shift and I always liked to be in control.
Now that I'm older and lazier I am willing to give up some of my control for comfort and convenience.
There are several advantages to manual transmissions. First is their reliability. With modern synchronizers, you almost never grind or damage the gears. The clutch is the only item that normally needs to be replaced, usually between 100k and 125k miles, depending on your driving habits. Second, replacing a clutch is much cheaper than replacing an automatic or CVT transmission. Third, automatics and CVTs are controlled by computer codes. I have read that some manafacturers, like Nissan, are claiming that the codes are proprietary and thus cannot be used by non-dealer repair shops. This forces people to get their transmissions fixed at stealerships and drives up the cost of the process.
All my non-company cars have had manual transmissions. I enjoy the engagement and control the manual transmission provides although I admit that it is inconvenient to be constantly shifting in stop and go traffic on I-25.
Manual transmissions do not cause distracted driving although they are not suitable for distracted drivers. On more than one occassion recently, my wife has been driving her Subaru 75 mph for 5 miles on the highway in 5th gear. I get a look from her when I politely say that she can shift into 6th at anytime!
My Goal - In years to come, be the last old fart driving the last manual transmission car around here.
I like auto for my DD vehicle. But for any kind of "fun" car, i prefer manual.
Martinjmpr
02-08-2017, 09:01
I learned to drive in 78, got my first vehicle in 79 and my first automatic in .... 2003. Not a big fan of slush boxes.
Unfortunately any more there are large categories of vehicles where a MT is simply not an option. Much as I'd love to have a 5 or 6 speed manual on my Suburban, they haven't made them with that option for over 20 years (and to be honest, the 'Burb is mostly a tow vehicle so the slushbox is probably more appropriate for that anyway.)
I do have a DD Nissan Pathfinder with a 5 speed, and it's fun. Driving a manual makes me feel like I'm "engaged" with the car, where driving an auto is really just...steering.
Wife has an old 95 YJ Wrangler with a 5 speed and - get this - MANUAL steering! She loves it. She wants to give it to our granddaughter when she turns 16. She says it's the perfect teenager car: Manual steering and manual transmission means you can't text and drive, the thing is so loud you can't even talk on the phone while you drive, and it's got a little 4 cyl engine so the max speed is about 55.
Martinjmpr
02-08-2017, 09:05
I want a Manual because I don't want to pay for an additional anti-theft device.
With the lockouts on the newer automatics, they're not an easy mark for theft.
I think the point he was making was that there are neighborhoods out there where you could park a MT vehicle with the keys in the ignition and nobody would steal it because they don't know how to drive a manual. ;)
My 22 year old nephew has a little Subaru Impreza with a 5 speed. If he goes out at night with his friends and they take his car, he can't drink - he has to be the designated driver since none of his friends know how to drive a manual.
Martinjmpr
02-08-2017, 09:07
BTW I assume that people who can't drive a manual are pretty much hosed if they ever want to go to a foreign country and rent a car. I don't know what it's like now but when I was in Germany in the 80's, automatics were virtually unheard of and the local rental places only rented vehicles with manuals. I rented a mini-van once (I think it was a Mitsubishi) to take a group of my buddies skiing in Garmisch - that thing had a 5-on-the-tree.
When my MP Company was deployed to Hungary in 1997 for OJG we did a liaison day with the Hungarian Highway Patrol - they were fascinated by our HMMWVs because they had automatic transmissions. Most of them had never seen one, much less driven one.
JohnnyDrama
02-08-2017, 09:17
Thanks for all the great replies. I learned to drive in the mid eighties in a '68 Ford half ton with a four speed and armstrong steering. That was long before cell phones and cup holders were those flimsy plastic things you hung off you window. I think you had to be a lot more engaged with your vehicle and the road. Driving is arguably the most dangerous thing most of us will do in our daily lives and it bugs me that so many people take it so lightly. Although I really like manual transmissions, I admit I have grown to like the autos in the Taco and Tundras at work for going off the beaten path.
The truck I have now is the first vehicle I've owned that wasn't manual. If I ever own a small car again I'll insist on getting a stick, but for trucks I don't really miss it.
Also the article said you can't even get manuals in supercars anymore, but I think it's worth mentioning that it's because those highly advanced transmissions can shift faster and more intuitively than 99% of drivers can.
newracer
02-08-2017, 10:04
I know it's not a true manual but my wife's Fusion has a sport mode where you use the paddle shifters. It is a six speed auto. Really fun to drive.
My 99 Jeep Wrangler is a manual and both of my boys have learned to drive it.
I want a Manual because I don't want to pay for an additional anti-theft device.
http://i.imgur.com/snhvea1.jpg
Along the same lines of learning to drive manual, I'm seeing a lot of younger kids waiting to get their license. Driving just isn't important to kids these days like it was to me when I reached 16. It's more of a chore to them.
Dad taught me to drive his manual Jeep CJ when I was 12. He said I needed to know in case something happened to him while we were deep in the woods hunting or fishing.
I've had several manuals since, but do not miss them. My 8 speed Audi has the gears so close together, I have to drop 3 gears in order to notice any engine braking at all - does help with mileage though.
My biggest modern vehicle gripe is the damn turbo-lag from a stop. Nothing like flooring it to cross oncoming traffic and praying through the first few crawling seconds of lag before you launch across. I've learned to two-foot it when necessary.
All my motorcycles have been manuals.
BTW I assume that people who can't drive a manual are pretty much hosed if they ever want to go to a foreign country and rent a car. I don't know what it's like now but when I was in Germany in the 80's, automatics were virtually unheard of and the local rental places only rented vehicles with manuals. I rented a mini-van once (I think it was a Mitsubishi) to take a group of my buddies skiing in Garmisch - that thing had a 5-on-the-tree.
When my MP Company was deployed to Hungary in 1997 for OJG we did a liaison day with the Hungarian Highway Patrol - they were fascinated by our HMMWVs because they had automatic transmissions. Most of them had never seen one, much less driven one.
Our issued Vanagon had a stick. So did the 70's Dodge W200 mobile radio truck. :-)
I had a 1972 BMW 2000 Touring with an automatic... Loved that little car until the frame rotted away and wouldn't pass TUV and I had to get something else. Got a 2500 (with a manual) to replace it. My wife and kids can also drive stick - although she's hard on clutches.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/BMW_2000_Touring_1990_cc_first_reg_Nov_1974.JPG
https://www.ar-15.co/attachment.php?attachmentid=69092&d=1486571762
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2017, 10:51
BTW I assume that people who can't drive a manual are pretty much hosed if they ever want to go to a foreign country and rent a car. I don't know what it's like now but when I was in Germany in the 80's, automatics were virtually unheard of and the local rental places only rented vehicles with manuals. I rented a mini-van once (I think it was a Mitsubishi) to take a group of my buddies skiing in Garmisch - that thing had a 5-on-the-tree.
When my MP Company was deployed to Hungary in 1997 for OJG we did a liaison day with the Hungarian Highway Patrol - they were fascinated by our HMMWVs because they had automatic transmissions. Most of them had never seen one, much less driven one.
I don't drive a stick as it's difficult with 1 leg and it's never been an issue in a foreign country. In fact CA & NY have many rental vehicles that are automatics.
Gave the spouse a refresher years after she forgot how. Her first vehicle was her dad's 63 scout
I agree there's a generation or two that couldn't drive a stick, let alone function in public without a cell phone .
OR look at a gun [panic] without going in to safe space mode.
Aloha_Shooter
02-08-2017, 10:53
Along the same lines of learning to drive manual, I'm seeing a lot of younger kids waiting to get their license. Driving just isn't important to kids these days like it was to me when I reached 16. It's more of a chore to them.
Yep. My 17-year-old nephew had to be coaxed into learning to drive. He's doing well and enjoys it now but he just really had no desire to drive or learn to drive. His younger brother is even worse because he realizes driving means he can't play with his Nintendo DS.
Yep. My 17-year-old nephew had to be coaxed into learning to drive. He's doing well and enjoys it now but he just really had no desire to drive or learn to drive. His younger brother is even worse because he realizes driving means he can't play with his Nintendo DS.
Is that what they're calling it now?
68Charger
02-08-2017, 12:16
Lots of good responses here... now that my wife has an automatic Diesel ('07 6.7L), I do find that I can do a more agressive 4wd launch, since I can get the turbo spooled.
But I would never want a slushbox behind my 12v... the computer controls on the newer autos have made them tougher- and the computer can bring down power if it starts to overheat... none of that was available with th 12v
ColoradoTJ
02-08-2017, 22:10
Very interesting replies. I guess for me it depends on application and what you personally like.
Some of mine:
02 Firehawk Trans Am was a 6MT. It was a pleasure vehicle with a stage 3 clutch and a bunch of ass under the hood. Fun car, but glad I never got into a traffic situation with that car. My left thigh would have gave out.
12' Grand Sport Corvette. That also had a 6MT and one of the smoothest transmissions I have ever owned. A couple buddies have had autos in vettes, and I wasn't a huge fan.
07 Lexus IS350. This is an auto with paddle shifters. I can't say I would want anything else. Put the car in sport mode, it downshifts hard under braking, launches well and handles the curves great for a 4 door sedan and great daily driver.
Most of my cars and trucks in HS were manual transmissions except for my 70 Chevelle. That was more of a cost thing instead of a choice.
Recently, for towing:
I had my CDL, class A, and had to drive a lot of different trucks when doing Utility work as a Lineman. Some were equipped with Allison automatics, others with 13 or 18 speed transmissions. I have to admit, the manual transmission trucks were so much more fun to drive if driven correctly. I had to work on Pikes Peak for a few months and hauled equipment and gear up every day. (Yeah, you can thank me for helping get the tollway paved all the way up) Coming down Pikes Peak, dropping a gear, hitting the front 3 cylinder jake or all 6 and that truck was in complete control. Very impressed. Can't say a 550 Cat under the hood was a slouch either. I never seen that kind of HP under the hood of the autos.
My 05 Dodge was an auto. Loved that truck for towing or pleasure driving. Only thing that sucked was coming down Vail Pass or something like it and using the service brakes more than I liked.
I then had an 02 Dodge HO truck with an NV5600, and mine sucked. Some people had great shifting ones, others had ones like mine. In traffic is blew ass and towing it really didn't give me that much control vs my auto Dodge. Same issue, brakes were used more often than I liked.
My current tow rig, 16' 3500 Duramax. I would never want a manual transmission after owning this truck. Period. 90% of the time, the Allison 1000 does all the grade braking I need. The few times I actually maybe needed the exhaust brake, the additional control and not using my service brakes is awesome. Power is strong and comes on very smooth. I only have 2464 miles of towing with it so far, but it has been all my pleasure. Today I was hauling some landscaping supplies and had to scale for payment. 10600 lbs and the truck doesn't even sweat it.
Personally, I like technology. To get a manual transmission in a HD series truck (2500-5500), they would be huge just to handle the HP/TQ ratings of today. Ram was the last ones to offer a manual transmission, but you had to take the reduced power output motor for that option so it would stay together. Hell, GM and Ford are both over 900 pound feet of torque (GM 910 and Ford 925) in 2017.
Hell, GM and Ford are both over 900 pound feet of torque (GM 910 and Ford 925) in 2017.
...and GM and Ford have co-developed a 10 speed automatic.
ColoradoTJ
02-08-2017, 23:29
...and GM and Ford have co-developed a 10 speed automatic.
Yep, for their half ton lineup, for now. Current Raptor has the 10 speed. Sounds like it is pretty bad ass from the reviews I've seen.
I've owned manual trans vehicles since I learned to drive in one back when I was 11 or 12. Starting with my dad's 66 MG 1100 sedan, then a Datsun 510 wagon. Of the 20 or so vehicles I've owned, only a 72 Dodge van an the motorhome have had autos( the Smart is technically an auto, but is in reality a computer controlled 5 speed sequential gearbox with an automatic clutch, no torque converter). All of my pickups have been 3,4, or 5 speed manuals.
ruthabagah
02-09-2017, 00:12
Thats fine but anybody here besides me ever driven a vehicle with a pre-selective transmission?
ColoradoTJ
02-09-2017, 07:10
That would be a no.
What did you drive with a pre-selective transmission?
ruthabagah
02-09-2017, 08:06
That would be a no.
What did you drive with a pre-selective transmission?
1942 demag d7. Also known as a sdkfz 10. A lot of european and german pre ww2 tanks/half track used a similar setup.
ColoradoTJ
02-09-2017, 09:08
1942 demag d7. Also known as a sdkfz 10. A lot of european and german pre ww2 tanks/half track used a similar setup.
That is actually pretty awesome.
The oldest car I have driven was a 64 Chevy. I was born ten years after it's production. Ha ha.
Back in the days when I drove and raced Austin Healy, MG and Lotus cars, skillful shifting was fun. Now, only my '85 SR5 pickup has a 5-speed manual, and it's a pain to drive the mountain roads, especially with the little 4 cylinder engine. I much prefer automatics with strong engines for daily driving. The 8-speed automatic in the new Highlander is incredibly smooth and efficient, and I can manually upshift and downshift it with a flip of the shifter for complete control.
ruthabagah
02-09-2017, 13:38
That is actually pretty awesome.
The oldest car I have driven was a 64 Chevy. I was born ten years after it's production. Ha ha.
Nice. see I don't have a lot of "golden age" american cars under my driving record, and I wish I did.
I interned at the National french Tank museum in the late 80' and spent a summer driving around to entertain the tourists and working on restauration projects... my favorite was the american M-24 weasel. Properly launched, this thing would become airborne on small bumps.....
http://www.museedesblindes.fr/en/presentation-du-musee-des-blindes/plan-des-salles-du-musee-des-blindes-saumur
1946 Willys Jeep here. Still have it too. And a 66 mustang.
Ive driven all sorts of old manual cars: 1968 Camaro, 1964 Mustang, 1962 Chevy 409, '62 Corvette, '71 Camaro. Hot rods with a manual are a blast.
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