Off Duty Cop fires warning shot to scatter agressive kids in Anaheim [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

cstone

02-22-2017, 20:36

Hypothetical: You just witnessed a violent felony assault on someone and you were able to stop the assault and hold onto the perpetrator without using deadly force. While awaiting the police, several of the perpetrator's associates come to their colleagues aid and a couple of them begin to assault you. Next move is yours Maverick.

Obviously this YouTube video begins well after the beginning of the incident and shows one of many perspectives. Hopefully no one was seriously injured and those who committed crimes will be identified and prosecuted.

Be safe.

brutal

02-22-2017, 20:41

Cue Paul Harvey quote.

Sadly many will be quick to judge - on both sides - without all the facts.

brutal

02-22-2017, 20:44

Longer (mostly post gunfire) here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8FWkNBSBAk

crays

02-22-2017, 20:45

I was going to armchair this with the caveat of "no back story".
Society has given children the power to do whatever they want, under the guise of "I'm a minor, if you touch me I'm calling the cops!"
One of the bystanders even states something along the lines of "he's a minor".
Maybe this adult put himself in a bad position, but he didn't go full retard until he was bum-rushed by several individuals.

Difficult situation. Will be interesting to see if we ever get full disclosure.

Just my .02

sent from me

GilpinGuy

02-22-2017, 21:00

Wonderful. Al Sharpton will be all over the "news" in the morning.

SAnd

02-22-2017, 21:05

Wonderful. Al Sharpton will be all over the "news" in the morning.
I heard that eric holder has acquired the west coast franchise for this kind of thing.

Irving

02-22-2017, 21:06

Haha, who's bad now kids?

Great-Kazoo

02-22-2017, 21:08

I heard that eric holder has acquired the west coast franchise for this kind of thing.

No Shit.

theGinsue

02-22-2017, 21:11

Fixed the title to accurately reflect the situation. "Cop shoots at kids in Anaheim" is false and misleading.

Not sure how right/wrong the officer was before the camera started recording, but if he was detaining the kid until an on duty officer could arrive as it appears to be, I'd say everything I saw was legit. When he got pushed while already dealing with 2 kids, then other kids start to aggress towards him, his life was potentially in danger. Several of those "kids" appeared to be as large as the officer.

You can't clearly see him well enough in the video when he fires to be able to tell if the gun discharged while struggling with the teen or if it was intentional.

For now, I'd side with the single adult versus the mob of kids. This might change as more facts are revealed.

MrPrena

02-22-2017, 21:20

County DA should file charges for trespassing on ALL of those kids on the video.
As a county/city resident, I don't want no hs punks on my driveway and/or yard smoking blunts with finger-fking gang signs.

crays

02-22-2017, 21:24

^^^this^^^
I was trying to keep from being too long-winded in my reply above, but I was going to point out that the first "kid" to drop his backpack to assist the "victim" appears (at least in the video footage) to be very closely bordering on adulthood in both appearance and stature.

sent from me

ETA: no offense to MrPrena, but wanted clarify that my reply was to Ginsue's post.

Jamnanc

02-22-2017, 21:31

What was in the backpack that the other kid took off the "victim's" back and headed off with?

davsel

02-22-2017, 22:25

Skip

02-23-2017, 11:08

More info here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4250762/Off-duty-cop-pulls-gun-goes-teen-scuffle.html

Sure looks like he did not intend to fire. It appears the gun goes off when he had his empty hand on the kid's shirt and his gun hand on the kid's belt, pulling him over the hedge. Lucky he didn't shoot the kid in the leg.

Personally, I can't blame him and if I lived there he would certainly have my support. But then I wonder what would happen to me if I were surrounded by a mob a fired a "warning shot" or any shot that was un-aimed and potentially unintentionally after drawing in a dicey situation? Particularly on questionable footing with imminent danger per the video.

Also interesting on how much outrage there is over a minority that didn't get shot. Didn't folks claim after Ferguson that Wilson should have fired a warning shot first? Apparently the people who are perpetually outraged are going to be outraged no matter what.

KevDen2005

02-23-2017, 11:28

Personally, I can't blame him and if I lived there he would certainly have my support. But then I wonder what would happen to me if I were surrounded by a mob a fired a "warning shot" or any shot that was un-aimed and potentially unintentionally after drawing in a dicey situation? Particularly on questionable footing with imminent danger per the video.

Also interesting on how much outrage there is over a minority that didn't get shot. Didn't folks claim after Ferguson that Wilson should have fired a warning shot first? Apparently the people who are perpetually outraged are going to be outraged no matter what.

You're not suggesting that there is an agenda after each situation are you? Clearly warning shots were needed in Ferguson. Warning shots would only be necessary here if the off duty officer was being beaten by a thug twice his size.

Honestly though, it looks like a crappy situation. And after every shift I work I hate juveniles more and more.

Skip

02-23-2017, 12:35

You're not suggesting that there is an agenda after each situation are you?

[snip]

Nope, not at all. All the outrage is clearly genuine and consistent from people who have no problem being victims of violent criminals which is why they rush to support them in nearly every case.

fitz19d

02-23-2017, 15:29

Half hearted riots end in dozen arrests.

https://www.policeone.com/investigations/articles/294541006-Protests-erupt-after-off-duty-Calif-officer-clashes-with-teens/

GilpinGuy

02-23-2017, 15:54

Half hearted riots end in dozen arrests.

https://www.policeone.com/investigations/articles/294541006-Protests-erupt-after-off-duty-Calif-officer-clashes-with-teens/

At least arrests were made, unlike Berzerkeley.

cstone

02-23-2017, 16:12

Just my opinion; warning shots are a bad idea. It left your gun and you own it. If it isn't aimed at something, you have no idea where it will stop.

If I were to draw in that situation it would be in self defense and at that point if I hadn't already cuffed and controlled my subject, I would release him and gain some distance.

One problem with most people is we rarely give ourselves enough time to think through the chain of events and subsequent consequences before we start down a given path. I would guess that the officer will be reviewing that video along with any other video available and trying to rethink every decision he made. I am absolutely certain that the first time he watched the video he couldn't actually articulate why he chose the actions we can see on the video. My experience in reviewing video is often; "Hmmm, I don't remember doing that. I don't know what I was thinking."

Many years ago, when I was in uniform, I quickly learned that 12, 13, and 14 year old males were the most unpredictable, dangerous, and most likely people to hurt me or someone else. That's not to say that you can't be hurt by anyone else, but young males were a bit more fragile when it came to their aggressive behavior.

I hope this whole incident wasn't predicated on a simple trespass of the officer's front yard. That would be a very unfortunate way to lose your job, IMO.

WETWRKS

02-23-2017, 16:26

Looking at it from my position...someone walks across my yard...I chase them down...grab them (there are statements that the kid was punched in the groin) so maby assault them...drag them back across 3 yards...get into a fight with several of their friends/accomplices...pull a gun and fire a shot...

what are the odds that I as a civilian would have been arrested? Regardless of what the criminal had done I would be accused of aggravating the situation by chasing the criminal down. Possibly assaulting them. Negligent discharge of a firearm. Considering he had been told repeatedly that it was a minor so potentially child abuse/endangerment...

And all this over what? Someone walked across his lawn? Really? Really?

davsel

02-23-2017, 16:46

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a2/a250e5b7cca9b93f50b8e8b371b9f688ebb521336fed1402df 7b56e17fc4b1b3.jpg
Someone had to post it

fitz19d

02-23-2017, 20:40

My opiinion is it looked like an accidental discharge.

brutal

02-23-2017, 22:15

My opiinion is it looked like an accidental discharge.

Accidental?

You forget the sarcasm smiley?

fitz19d

02-23-2017, 22:22

No, it looked like he may have had finger on the trigger and accidentally popped one off while struggling to haul the kid over.

Notice right before the shot, gun in left hand, and he transitions it to his right hand. He's obscured when the shot goes off but I think he in all the turmoil and swapping hands got jostled or otherwise got his finger where it shouldnt have.

Possibly it was a bad "warning" shot, but I don't think we had a statement from the guy yet. (and brings into play changing the story later)

I'm not dog piling him if it was accidental, just seems probable.

brutal

02-23-2017, 23:59

No, it looked like he may have had finger on the trigger and negligently popped one off while struggling to haul the kid over.

Notice right before the shot, gun in left hand, and he transitions it to his right hand. He's obscured when the shot goes off but I think he in all the turmoil and swapping hands got jostled or otherwise got his finger where it shouldnt have.

Possibly it was a bad "warning" shot, but I don't think we had a statement from the guy yet. (and brings into play changing the story later)

I'm not dog piling him if it was accidental, just seems probable.

FIFY

My snarky point was that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. It was a Negligent Discharge.

[beatdeadhorse]

jhood001

02-24-2017, 00:09

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a2/a250e5b7cca9b93f50b8e8b371b9f688ebb521336fed1402df 7b56e17fc4b1b3.jpg
Someone had to post it

We know.

And we always know that it will be you.

#alwaystheretohelp-davesl

Ronin13

02-24-2017, 07:39

It was a bad situation no matter how you slice it. Sounds like the kid, prior to the cameras rolling (imagine that) threatened to kill the guy so he attempted to detain the kid. Knowing full and well the kid would bolt before the uniformed officers could arrive he tried to keep him there. Without the full story I can't really say for sure... But he was surrounded by a group of potentially violent individuals, he knew there was a gun in the situation (his), and he's probably not going to let a criminal get away. I agree with KevDen, this job makes me hate juvenile offenders more than most adults, they have that attitude as if you can't do anything to them...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

ACE2GOOD

02-24-2017, 08:47

I think it was a negligent discharge. Not sure exactly what I would have done in the situation but as others mentioned if you feel threatened and have to pull the gun why keep wrestling with the kid that is not detained and sling the muzzle of the gun around all of those people? If you are afraid for your life at that point forget trying to detain the kid and get some distance between you and the others. I am not a cop so I do not know how the law works but I do not think he is obligated to detain anyone in that situation being off duty and in fear of his life, if that was his reasoning for pulling the gun.

fitz19d

02-24-2017, 10:17

FIFY

My snarky point was that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. It was a Negligent Discharge.

[beatdeadhorse]

I agree 99% of the time. Though i do believe in accidents, such as he could have had his finger outside of the trigger guard but in a tussle it still gets pushed into the trigger.

Semantics so it's all the same

I still expect him to be villified for trying so hard to detain kid rather than let him go on his way and find him another day. And as previous poster says, they may be right. Circles back to we don't know enough back story and history.

P89DC

02-24-2017, 11:04

Ronin13

02-24-2017, 12:38

Looked like a ND to me. If the cop took things this far over kids walking on his lawn, then had a ND while trying to detain the kid I'd expect the cop to lose his job. Why didn't he call on his on-duty cop buddies to take care of the trespassing?

From the sound of it, seems like it was more than just trespassing- some of the reports I've read on this state that he came out after they were walking all over his lawn and asked them to walk on the sidewalk, that's when one of the kids made verbal threats to shoot him. Not sure how CA laws work, but here, there's a thin line between harassment and felony menacing. I can armchair QB this all day, but unless I'm actually faced with the situation and how I perceive the legitimacy of the threat, I can't really say what I would do. If the officer reasonably believed the kid had a gun and was intent on using it, he would be justified in his actions.

Ranger353

02-24-2017, 14:34

If you watch some of the other videos you can hear the back and forth going on and it is clear that this was about more then just trespassing. Apparently, the home owner told them to get off his lawn, words were exchanged, the kid said "l'll fucking shoot you," then off-duty officer then identified himself as a police officer, the kid said I don't care, and then things escalated from there. It's important to note that in California, police officers are never really off duty, they have a sworn responsibility to enforce the law 24/7, although discretion can always be exercised. Not too different in Colorado, but it is not articulated in Colorado statutes to the detail that it is in the California Penal Code.