View Full Version : Law enforcement exemption from magazine bans?
dbgunner
03-01-2017, 18:07
Is law enforcement exempt from the 15 round magazine restriction.
This would be for a private sale/transfer for personal use, not for duty use.
I looked at HB13-1224 and it is not clear to me.
Any help would be appreciated.
DireWolf
03-01-2017, 21:34
I may be mistaken, but I thought I remembered Neves selling D60s at the counter and saying that only an LEO/Agency ID was required....
OneGuy67
03-02-2017, 10:26
dbgunner, you aren't selling a ptr by chance?
Ranger353
03-02-2017, 16:19
My understanding is they must be for duty use. Some shops just want to see the ID, others ask for a letter on letterhead, just depends on where you go.
Snowman78
03-02-2017, 16:45
This is from the bill:
(3) THE OFFENSE DESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION
SHALL NOT APPLY TO THE TRANSFER OR POSSESSION OF A
LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE THAT IS MANUFACTURED FOR; IMPORTED,
SOLD, OR TRANSFERRED TO; OR POSSESSED BY, ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
(a) A DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE
STATE OF COLORADO, ANY OTHER STATE, OR THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT; OR
(b) A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER EMPLOYED BY ANY
DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE OF
COLORADO, ANY OTHER STATE, OR THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT,
INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OF A
CAMPUS OF AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION, FOR USE WHILE THE
OFFICER IS ON DUTY OR OFF DUTY.
osok-308
03-07-2017, 18:55
This is from the bill:
(3) THE OFFENSE DESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION
SHALL NOT APPLY TO THE TRANSFER OR POSSESSION OF A
LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE THAT IS MANUFACTURED FOR; IMPORTED,
SOLD, OR TRANSFERRED TO; OR POSSESSED BY, ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
(a) A DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE
STATE OF COLORADO, ANY OTHER STATE, OR THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT; OR
(b) A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER EMPLOYED BY ANY
DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE OF
COLORADO, ANY OTHER STATE, OR THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT,
INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OF A
CAMPUS OF AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION, FOR USE WHILE THE
OFFICER IS ON DUTY OR OFF DUTY.
This should answer all questions. It always helps to go directly to the law when trying to determine what is legal and what is not. Which is good, because it would be a shame if I couldn't use the 30-round AK mags that I bought simply because my department doesn't approve of the AK for duty use.
This should answer all questions. It always helps to go directly to the law when trying to determine what is legal and what is not. Which is good, because it would be a shame if I couldn't use the 30-round AK mags that I bought simply because my department doesn't approve of the AK for duty use.
It wouldn't be a shame. It would be proper. While I have no beef with police, there's nothing about police qua police as people that differentiates them from anyone who isn't a member of the police. Make that argument and a liberal would love to hug you.
osok-308
03-07-2017, 19:47
It wouldn't be a shame. It would be proper. While I have no beef with police, there's nothing about police qua police as people that differentiates them from anyone who isn't a member of the police. Make that argument and a liberal would love to hug you.
I agree with the statement to an extent. I promise you that there are non LEO's better trained than me. However, that does not change the fact that it would be a shame if it were illegal for me to use my 30-round AK mags.
And that does not change the fact that us mere mortals cannot legally use the same mags.
Yet another troublesome area of a poorly written law. What happens when a Leo retire/quits/is fired to their personal property which was up until then legal? Remember it's illegal to transfer them also so even the act of selling them to a non ban state is a crime.
KevDen2005
03-08-2017, 02:39
While I disagree with the law completely and don't feel that I am above a citizen or that I should have more rights than anyone else, however I am still going to take advantage of what I am allowed to do. Anyone else would do the same thing.
Refresh my aged memory - that law doesn't prevent anyone from OWNING or USING 15+ rd mags that were in your possession BEFORE the law went into effect, right? It's about selling or transferring NEW mags?
Refresh my aged memory - that law doesn't prevent anyone from OWNING or USING 15+ rd mags that were in your possession BEFORE the law went into effect, right? It's about selling or transferring NEW mags?
Correct. The "law" is a typical liberal do-nothing law. It's like saying, "Grenades are so bad, cus little Jimmy could get one and blow up his school!" and then disallowing purchase of new grenades while doing nothing about the 1,654,924 grenades already out there. Further, it ignores that there is nothing stopping Jimmy's uncle from getting them in Wyoming, New Mexico, Utah, etc. Never mind the fact that Jimmy's other uncle is a cop who can stockpile grenades and his mother's newest boyfriend is a PFC at Carson who can buy them too (and would probably sell them to Jimmy to make up for the article 15 loss of pay he got for his DUI). There's literally nothing stopping Jimmy or anyone else from acquiring them. It's a feel-good "law" which only harms people who wouldn't pull a pin and chuck it in a school.
While I disagree with the law completely and don't feel that I am above a citizen or that I should have more rights than anyone else, however I am still going to take advantage of what I am allowed to do. Anyone else would do the same thing.
Would you enforce this "law"?
KevDen2005
03-08-2017, 09:50
Would you enforce this "law"?
Ha. I'm not going to admit to what I have told people to do on a public forum....I mean I have never observed a person committing this crime
KevDen2005
03-08-2017, 09:54
Would you enforce this "law"?
But honestly this is a tricky area. Even if I could prove the magazine wasn't owned before 2013 which is almost impossible...there may be tricky circumstances where I would be forced to even when I don't want to at all. I'm just thinking of a homicide or domestic violence situation involving a gun. Although I have ran into numerous types of those calls over the last 4 years of law change and haven't had the issue yet, I am worried that it could happen. Even with those I hope it never happens because I never want to enforce it and I never want to give the media fuel.
Now the person who will most likely suffer is the way too honest dude on the way back from Wyoming with a car full of mags for his own personal collection and a fresh receipt on the dashboard and then tells you what he did without you even asking.
Never say never. Dumb law, however if I had a homicidal maniac in custody, who had killed children, puppies, and kittens, using recently purchased standard capacity Glock 17 magazines, I would have no problem adding the additional banned magazine charge. Otherwise, don't ask, don't tell.
I despise law makers who exempt government employees from laws that apply to all other free citizens. Some animals are more equal than others.
Be safe.
KevDen2005
03-08-2017, 10:19
Never say never. Dumb law, however if I had a homicidal maniac in custody, who had killed children, puppies, and kittens, using recently purchased standard capacity Glock 17 magazines, I would have no problem adding the additional banned magazine charge. Otherwise, don't ask, don't tell.
I despise law makers who exempt government employees from laws that apply to all other free citizens. Some animals are more equal than others.
Be safe.
I also despise law makers who do that...but have I taken advantage of the law, absolutely, especially when ordering a firearm from another state that only comes with standard capacity magazines.
That being said I need to add which I put on another post a while back. What irritates me is sometimes our laziness. I see the non stop complaining on here or other boards or with law abiding citizens on the street. When they bitch they get taken aback when I ask did you sign the petitions, did you contact your representative, and so on. I can tell you that I am a member of a few different gun lobbying groups that I pay dues to. I have signed every petition that I could, even the ones where I had to put on clothes to get away from my computer and go to a gun shop to sign. I even brought family and friends and advertised on social media and email. The recent Hughes repeal petition was an online petition and for some reason it can't reach 100,000 signatures? I saw it advertised numerous places. That is just absurd. I write my representatives every time the law change comes up. I can't say that for all of my friends who are serious gun owners that probably do way more shooting that I ever do. And with the petitions like the mag repeal, I heard people say they never saw it or knew there was one. It's like the absurdity is on both ends. Even the advertisers can't be bothered to get it out there more and let people know as much as possible.
Best way to repeal dumb laws is change the politicians, IMO. All legislatures should be flushed and changed at least as often as any engine oil. Even synthetic (better politicians) gets dirty and sludgy over time. Two years or 3000 votes, and out they go. [Flower]
hurley842002
03-08-2017, 12:25
Best way to repeal dumb laws is change the politicians, IMO. All legislatures should be flushed and changed at least as often as any engine oil. Even synthetic (better politicians) gets dirty and sludgy over time. Two years or 3000 votes, and out they go. [Flower]
I wish this forum had a like button, but for now, I'll just say I "like" this post.
osok-308
03-11-2017, 00:28
Never say never. Dumb law, however if I had a homicidal maniac in custody, who had killed children, puppies, and kittens, using recently purchased standard capacity Glock 17 magazines, I would have no problem adding the additional banned magazine charge. Otherwise, don't ask, don't tell.
I despise law makers who exempt government employees from laws that apply to all other free citizens. Some animals are more equal than others.
Be safe.
Yep. This. If you're using firearms in illegal, irresponsible, and evil manners, then I have no problem tacking this on.
Otherwise, dadt
What happens to an out of stater who visits the state with post mags?
What about the out of stater who moves to Colorado that purchased mags in his old home state after the Colorado ban?
kidicarus13
03-11-2017, 14:40
What happens to an out of stater who visits the state with post mags?
What about the out of stater who moves to Colorado that purchased mags in his old home state after the Colorado ban?
According to the law, illegal.
1) arguable
2) supposedly illegal
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/113497-Traveling-to-Colorado-with-rifle-and-magazines
Best way to repeal dumb laws is change the politicians, IMO. All legislatures should be flushed and changed at least as often as any engine oil. Even synthetic (better politicians) gets dirty and sludgy over time. Two years or 3000 votes, and out they go. [Flower]
Thumbs up button!
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
ChunkyMonkey
06-06-2017, 12:20
Best way to repeal dumb laws is change the politicians, IMO. All legislatures should be flushed and changed at least as often as any engine oil. Even synthetic (better politicians) gets dirty and sludgy over time. Two years or 3000 votes, and out they go. [Flower]
I have lost hope for CO. We are behind the line. Plus they would never pass a bill to term limit themselves.
... Plus they would never pass a bill to term limit themselves.
Which is why we get the government we deserve.
The ultimate term limit is when the voters throw the bums out. I don't trust even the best politician who wants to remain in power for more than a couple of terms. They don't even make a pretext of explaining how they are worth more when they leave office than their actual salaries paid them while in office. I'm dumb, just not that dumb.
ChunkyMonkey
06-06-2017, 16:33
They don't even make a pretext of explaining how they are worth more when they leave office than their actual salaries paid them while in office. I'm dumb, just not that dumb.
Legal corruption!
I agree with the statement to an extent. I promise you that there are non LEO's better trained than me. However, that does not change the fact that it would be a shame if it were illegal for me to use my 30-round AK mags.
Be specific. Are you talking on duty, with your duty weapon? Or off duty, tossing some rounds downrange, like the non LEO's. Because we unenlightened can't do the duty thing, but did the "non-duty" thing forever before the leftist govt. decided that we were not worthy. I have recently transferred some "deadly, incredibly high-capacity" mags to an auxiliary deputy, purchased on an LE program...not for his "duty weapon" for duty use. As an FFL, I can't even get those sent to me for out of state sale, which is completely legal. Now, I have plenty of standard capacity mags, that are well over 15 rounds. For AK's and AR's. (And a Glock, and a Walther, oh yeah, and a Beretta). I just can't get more. Because my new ones would be outrageously dangerous, compared to all my old ones.
I guess what I'm saying, is that the addition of "or OFF DUTY" sent this whole law into the bizarro world. Well, it made that transition long ago. Actually.
Some animals are more equal than others. As has been stated with effect previously.
While I disagree with the law completely and don't feel that I am above a citizen or that I should have more rights than anyone else, however I am still going to take advantage of what I am allowed to do. Anyone else would do the same thing.
This.
While I'm not one to disagree with anything that's already been said here, I understand the need for legislators to put in the LE exemption, as we all know- if it's on the street, even by illegal means, we should be able to be on equal (or preferred, better) footing. I have taken advantage of the exception, both for duty use and off-duty use. The exemption came in especially handy recently when I had to replace 2 20-round pistol magazines from my favorite FFL that the manufacturer refused to ship to me due to the law, even if I assured them I had credentials and agency letterhead.
That being said, I completely disagree with any law restricting our rights, 2nd Amendment or otherwise. But I also disagree with the rhetoric that people think LE shouldn't be exempt, that whole "what's good for the goose" stuff. You can't tell me that if there was a legal way within the law to do something someone else can't do you wouldn't take advantage of it. Like KevDen said, if you didn't take an active role in fighting against this, and other, horrid legislation, you really aren't in a position to bitch. I know many fellow LE, not just within my agency, but several others, who are committed to doing what they can to defeat this legislation by writing, petitioning, and better yet, voting. Do what you can with what you have, but don't blame us for the actions of our legislative body.
This.
While I'm not one to disagree with anything that's already been said here, I understand the need for legislators to put in the LE exemption, as we all know- if it's on the street, even by illegal means, we should be able to be on equal (or preferred, better) footing. I have taken advantage of the exception, both for duty use and off-duty use. The exemption came in especially handy recently when I had to replace 2 20-round pistol magazines from my favorite FFL that the manufacturer refused to ship to me due to the law, even if I assured them I had credentials and agency letterhead.
That being said, I completely disagree with any law restricting our rights, 2nd Amendment or otherwise. But I also disagree with the rhetoric that people think LE shouldn't be exempt, that whole "what's good for the goose" stuff. You can't tell me that if there was a legal way within the law to do something someone else can't do you wouldn't take advantage of it. Like KevDen said, if you didn't take an active role in fighting against this, and other, horrid legislation, you really aren't in a position to bitch. I know many fellow LE, not just within my agency, but several others, who are committed to doing what they can to defeat this legislation by writing, petitioning, and better yet, voting. Do what you can with what you have, but don't blame us for the actions of our legislative body.
So would you enforce the law?
So would you enforce the law?
I share the same opinion as KevDen... If forced, I would obviously do my job, but I wouldn't go out actively seeking violations- near impossible as they are to actually prove.
BPTactical
07-21-2017, 16:04
I understand the need for legislators to put in the LE exemption
Pure bullshit.
"For me and not thee"?
Fuck that noise.
No disrespect meant to our members of the LE community but I fail to see how your right to protect yourself and those around you is any more important than my right to do the same.
And the Golden Police chief testified that no-one in his department used magazines with over 15 rounds (not needed he later said), he was one of the libs star witnesses, even though he stated several things that were not true. The law can not apply to a person who is not currently in Colorado. So if you left the state with magazines over 15 rounds and did not bring them back with you, for example, that would not be violating the law as written. There is still one legal challenge in process.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-05-2017, 23:59
And the Golden Police chief testified that no-one in his department used magazines with over 15 rounds (not needed he later said), he was one of the libs star witnesses, even though he stated several things that were not true. The law can not apply to a person who is not currently in Colorado. So if you left the state with magazines over 15 rounds and did not bring them back with you, for example, that would not be violating the law as written. There is still one legal challenge in process.
What mags does their SWAT team run in their ARs?
Do you mean 'and did bring them back with you'?
ETA: The law says for officers, even from other states? Anybody know of sheriffs that are looking for some VERY part time deputies? Would that work? Reminds me of the gays getting married out of state and then making their home state honor it.
There's a very simple and legal way around this law.
It allows for manufacturers who sell out of state only to posses them. Put together a spring and some kind of cartridge holder and a box on an arms list ad. The feds allow you to do business under your own name without filing separately as does CO. If you make less than $499 in this business you don't have to file anything in your tax return.
So you are an undocumented manufacturer who's researching the competition with all these magpul products.
There's a very simple and legal way around this law.
It allows for manufacturers who sell out of state only to posses them. Put together a spring and some kind of cartridge holder and a box on an arms list ad. The feds allow you to do business under your own name without filing separately as does CO. If you make less than $499 in this business you don't have to file anything in your tax return.
So you are an undocumented manufacturer who's researching the competition with all these magpul products.
The other way around this is to be a licensed FFL...or employee there of.
So...who out there has their license and wants to list me as an employee on extended leave?
And that does not change the fact that us mere mortals cannot legally use the same mags.
Yeah who cares about equal protection under the law?
Pure bullshit.
"For me and not thee"?
Fuck that noise.
No disrespect meant to our members of the LE community but I fail to see how your right to protect yourself and those around you is any more important than my right to do the same.
Have to repeat this....just because your a LEO or any other state or .gov employee doesn't make you more law abiding than me so why should you have special rights or considered "above the law" because of the job you chose? This is the same argument that has been bitched about for everything political. Funny it's almost like The forefathers saw this coming, oh if only they'd given certain powers to the people to over come those political elitist mind sets................[shithitsfan]
beast556
08-09-2017, 23:38
I think I'll keep my opinion to my self after all. Dont wanna hurt any ones feels.
I'm just glad I loaded up on 30's back before that stupid law was dreamed up, I have plenty to keep me happy. But I also have brothers in TX and OK, just sayin'.....
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