Need recommendations for a Tow vehicle.

[zulu01]

I am helping a recently widowed friend find a vehicle to tow her camper. Camper is about 3500# loaded up. She wants a midsize SUV of some sort. She doesn't want a huge gas guzzling beast.

How much power/torque is enough to get the job done in Colorado? Is a V6 with around 300 ponies enough to comfortably tow in the mountains? I think the tow ratings on some of these vehicles are a bit optimistic.

[Wulf202]

You're looking at the wrong number. Torque is for towing

The issue with most v6 vehicles is the gearing will fry the Trans or the diff.

Unless she knows how to drive a stick while towing get a v8 unless you want an in line 6. You can only manage with a v6 auto at much lower altitude without damage

[newracer]

A new Jeep Wrangler 4 door will pull that.

[Firehaus]

A new Jeep Wrangler 4 door will pull that.

Mine has problems pulling my little trailer up hills at highway speeds, but maybe without heavy after market bumpers and 35" tires it wouldn't have as much of a problem.


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[newracer]

My totally stock '07 pulls my popup (about 3500 lbs) fine.

[zulu01]

What about the Ford Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost? 365 HP / 350 lb. - ft. Claimed 5000# towing. I've heard great things about the Ecoboost motors and towing although it has been the truck version which is tuned for much more torque- 470 lb - ft.

[zulu01]

A new Jeep Wrangler 4 door will pull that.

I don't think a Jeep would be her thing. Maybe a Grand Cherokee.

[Martinjmpr]

I'm on a few FB groups and message boards for small trailers and this is probably the most common question I see. Usually it's "I have a Subaru with a 4cyl and I want to pull a 2000 lb trailer."

A variation is "I have to pull this 4000lb trailer but I don't want a big gas guzzler!"

My opinion is this: You pay now, or you pay later. But you pay, one way or another. Choose a mid size or small vehicle because it's "rated" for 5000 lbs? Fine. But don't be surprised if you're spending $3k+ to put in a new transmission after a couple of years. You can buy a LOT of gas for $3k. ;)

When we went from an 1100lb teardrop to a 2000lb T@B, I thought my 2007 V6 4runner would be fine. Well, it was adequate, but just barely. Going up to the Eisenhower tunnel we were crawling along at 15 - 20 mph and the transmission temp soared to 239 degrees. I was eventually able to cool the transmission a bit by shifting it manually.

And even though we were able to get around OK with the V6 4runner, MPG was terrible. I'm talking 11 - 14 while towing, even under normal conditions. Add in high winds or rain and 9 mpg was normal. With a 23 gallon tank that gave me barely 200 miles between fuel stops (this was driving across North Dakota in 2015.)

Now, once we got to the campsite and unhooked, the 4runner was great. Comfortable and decent MPG, and even capable of some mild off-roading. But even driving down a level highway, it always felt like the V6 4runner was at the max of its abilities, and this is with just 2,000lbs. So, at the end of 2015, the 4runner was sold and I replaced it with a 2004 Chevy Suburban with a V8 (5.3.) I'll be the first to admit that the 'Burb is "overkill" in terms of our needs but it's nice having that margin of safety. And here's something interesting - MPG while towing is about the same as the 4runner - 11 to 14. But the Suburban's 31 gallon tank means my fuel range is much farther.

One thing to remember about travel trailers is that it's not just weight you need to consider but wind resistance - you're basically pulling a 7 x 7 ' billboard down the highway and that's going to add to the stress on the tow vehicle.

If it was me, I'd go bigger.

[fitz19d]

Also to consider is vehicles with actual tow package options. Brake controllers and actual tranny cooler.

[Irving]

I would have her consider not having a trailer at all. What's so important about it that she feels she needs to have it?

[hurley842002]

I would have her consider not having a trailer at all. What's so important about it that she feels she needs to have it?
With all do respect Irv, I appreciate your minimalist approach to living life, but people have things because they enjoy them, otherwise I suspect they wouldn't have them.

[Irving]

That's not what I'm getting at. If she's worried about having a "gas guzzler" then towing a trailer is probably not for her. I had to go back and read that it was a camper, and not just a "trailer." After having just driven across Nebraska in 50 mph wind gusts for most of the trip, and seeing at least one travel trailer on it's side in the median, I don't think one can go half way when towing. She's either going to have to bite the bullet of having to buy a real tow vehicle, or ditch the camper.

[ACE2GOOD]

The Ecoboost engine is great until you put any extra weight on it and the gas mileage goes through the floor. It tows like a dream with the Tow Package on my F-150 but the gas mileage drops to about 5-8mpg so you have to fill up often. Can't even tell you are towing anything behind you most of the time. but when towing gas mileage is gone. I was getting 18-20mpg highway on the stock BFG KO1 All Terrain tires. I upgraded and went up one more size with a BFG KO2 more aggressive looking tire and I now get 15mpg.

If I ever get a new truck I will be getting a V8 again. Ecoboost is great and all but as soon as you add any weight with camping gear, or toolbox, or new tires the extra gas mileage is gone and you might as well just have the V8 at that point. That's my two cents. [Beer]

[brutal]

Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel

[Martinjmpr]

If I ever get a new truck I will be getting a V8 again. Ecoboost is great and all but as soon as you add any weight with camping gear, or toolbox, or new tires the extra gas mileage is gone and you might as well just have the V8 at that point. That's my two cents. [Beer]

That's pretty much why we went with the Suburban. My thought was, "If I'm going to get 11 - 12 mpg anyway, I might as well be comfortable."

Driving the Suburban is like piloting my living room couch down the freeway. :D (my sister and brother-in-law borrowed it last weekend and they said it was more like driving their WHOLE LIVING ROOM down the road. :D )

I was toying with maybe the shorter Tahoe (since it's just the wife and me, kids are all grown) but when I looked at the numbers I realized that the Tahoe and the Burb get just about the same MPG but the 'Burb is 2' longer and has 5 more gallons in the tank. Also having a 14" longer wheelbase it tows better on the freeway.

No, it's not fun to park in a big city (though I parked in downtown Seattle in the middle of rush hour last year!) but for everything else it's been perfect.

[brutal]

P.S. There was a nice Excursion diesel in the TP here...

[meatman]

Something with auto-leveling suspension that eliminates the need for a weight distribution hitch, even though the 3500 lb trailer doesn't really need it. It helps keep everything more stable. The only examples I can think of off hand are the VW Touareg V8 (we have the V10TDI and tow a 4000lb+ 21ft travel trailer), or a newer Grand Cherokee.

[brutal]

Something with auto-leveling suspension that eliminates the need for a weight distribution hitch, even though the 3500 lb trailer doesn't really need it. It helps keep everything more stable. The only examples I can think of off hand are the VW Touareg V8 (we have the V10TDI and tow a 4000lb+ 21ft travel trailer), or a newer Grand Cherokee.

Auto leveling doesn't redistribute weight, it just raises the rear of the tow vehicle.

A weight distribution hitch transfers load further to the front of the tow vehicle using leverage. The best WD hitches also include good anti-sway control and easy hookup. I've been happy with my Equal-i-zer WD friction hitch but I only use it to tow my 20' boat behind my 5th wheel. It tames the little bit of sway I was getting but also controls the pogo you get pulling doubles.

However, agree while it's probably not really necessary for a #3500 trailer, sway control with a short wheelbase SUV is going to be needed.

[spongejosh]

Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel

If she has the money for it this is the answer.

[zulu01]

With all do respect Irv, I appreciate your minimalist approach to living life, but people have things because they enjoy them, otherwise I suspect they wouldn't have them.

I wouldn't doubt she possibly decides to sell it at some point. Right now she is probably emotionally attached. They were looking forward to doing a lot of camping in retirement but her husband died unexpectedly.

[ray1970]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but the smaller her tow vehicle the more likely that trailer is going to push her around. I'm not just talking about braking because trailer brakes will help with that. I'm talking about bumps, curves, and definitely the wind.

For what it's worth, my truck is factory rated at 410 ft. lbs. of torque and pulling a 4,000 lb. trailer up across the mountains is about all I can do comfortably and easily. And that drops my gas mileage down to about 11.

[drift_g35]

Ive pulled that with my 2014 4runner with no problems. I put a brake controller it (already wired, just had to mount it) They are rated for 5500. Got about 14-17 while towing.

[ACE2GOOD]

That's pretty much why we went with the Suburban. My thought was, "If I'm going to get 11 - 12 mpg anyway, I might as well be comfortable."

Driving the Suburban is like piloting my living room couch down the freeway. :D (my sister and brother-in-law borrowed it last weekend and they said it was more like driving their WHOLE LIVING ROOM down the road. :D )

I was toying with maybe the shorter Tahoe (since it's just the wife and me, kids are all grown) but when I looked at the numbers I realized that the Tahoe and the Burb get just about the same MPG but the 'Burb is 2' longer and has 5 more gallons in the tank. Also having a 14" longer wheelbase it tows better on the freeway.

No, it's not fun to park in a big city (though I parked in downtown Seattle in the middle of rush hour last year!) but for everything else it's been perfect.

I got a 2013 when the Ecoboosts were just getting popular and supposedly mpg was better in the 2013's but wish we would have waited to see more reviews and not buying at first release to see it was still crap mpg when towing. My Uncle had one of the first ones I think when ecoboost first started coming out and he got worse mpg then me when towing so maybe the 2013 is a little better. But oh well, it's almost paid off and I'm going to drive it till it dies!

[Great-Kazoo]

I am helping a recently widowed friend find a vehicle to tow her camper. Camper is about 3500# loaded up. She wants a midsize SUV of some sort. She doesn't want a huge gas guzzling beast.

How much power/torque is enough to get the job done in Colorado? Is a V6 with around 300 ponies enough to comfortably tow in the mountains? I think the tow ratings on some of these vehicles are a bit optimistic.


If she's not going full size, suggest she sell it or trade for a smaller unit. Having towed many a pull behind, those V6's sound nice. Till you're up hill into a headwind in bad weather. Then there's the off the main drag in 2 lane switchbacks. There's very few who know or realize there's other gears in an AT to do the job and burn the trans out before they've hit grand junction.

Gas mileage is going in the crapper. Might as well enjoy it in a full size with minimal issues than waiting for AAA to get you off hwy 14. Also make sure there's an external trans cooler installed.

[gnihcraes]

Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel

I third this suggestion. (2015 year) I can take her for a ride along with the wife's. 420lbs torque is fun. I can hook up the camper just for giggles. (large popup)

Problem with Eco... expensive oil changes. ($200 dealer, about $80 DIY and Fuel Filter changes) Dealing with DEF and diesel. My wife loves driving hers. Sounds a bit like a truck, and loves the power when she needs it! MPG around town is running about 22-24, 30 on highway! (no towing)

caution though too, they tested a GC ecodiesel and it was getting warm pulling Eisenhower tunnel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRo4uNWCy5E

[Firehaus]

My totally stock '07 pulls my popup (about 3500 lbs) fine.

That surprises me with the 3.8. You pull that up passes going 80? Any overheating?


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[hurley842002]

That surprises me with the 3.8. You pull that up passes going 80? Any overheating?


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Curious as well, I haven't heard much good about the 3.8's in the power department. My brothers 3.6 2 door moves pretty good for a Jeep (still not on par with my Xterra tho [emoji12]).

[newracer]

That surprises me with the 3.8. You pull that up passes going 80? Any overheating?


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Curious as well, I haven't heard much good about the 3.8's in the power department. My brothers 3.6 2 door moves pretty good for a Jeep (still not on par with my Xterra tho [emoji12]).

I can't do 80 up the hills but I can usually hold 65-70. Easy bound on Vail pass was the toughest, I think I was only going 55-60 when I hit the top. I added an additional transmission cooler due to the known issues of them overheating. I don't pull the trailer with it very often anymore since I now also have a Chevy 2500 Duramax.

[Great-Kazoo]

I can't do 80 up the hills but I can usually hold 65-70. Easy bound on Vail pass was the toughest, I think I was only going 55-60 when I hit the top. I added an additional transmission cooler due to the known issues of them overheating. I don't pull the trailer with it very often anymore since I now also have a Chevy 2500 Duramax.

Once again, bigger is better. Mid size is nice for mall crawling, towing, not as a the primary vehicle. If you want it to last.

[newracer]

Once again, bigger is better. Mid size is nice for mall crawling, towing, not as a the primary vehicle. If you want it to last.

I don't even notice the camper behind my Chevy and I can go as fast as I want up the hills.

[Martinjmpr]

That surprises me with the 3.8. You pull that up passes going 80? Any overheating?


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Curious as well, I haven't heard much good about the 3.8's in the power department. My brothers 3.6 2 door moves pretty good for a Jeep (still not on par with my Xterra tho [emoji12]).


I can't do 80 up the hills but I can usually hold 65-70. Easy bound on Vail pass was the toughest, I think I was only going 55-60 when I hit the top. I added an additional transmission cooler due to the known issues of them overheating. I don't pull the trailer with it very often anymore since I now also have a Chevy 2500 Duramax.

OK but that's a pop up which means low profile which means little wind resistance. OP described someone pulling a travel trailer which, as I said above, is basically pulling a 50+ square foot billboard down the highway.

[Goodburbon]

I 4th the ecodiesel. I had one and towed a bit. Temps climb quickly with any hill but level off just before overheating and cool quickly once it levels off.


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[Great-Kazoo]

I 4th the ecodiesel. I had one and towed a bit. Temps climb quickly with any hill but level off just before overheating and cool quickly once it levels off.


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While there's a few suggestions for the eco-diesel .. What one has to ask is, exactly how mechanical is the person the OP is asking for suggestions? Check trans temp, cool down, overheat, shifting gears?? Is the person in question (be it man or woman) competent enough to do any of this ?
The woman needs a turn key solution..

[Goodburbon]

The ecodiesel is turn key. You don't have to check anything or shift anything. just tow and know ahead of time that the needle will go up but it's normal and it'll come back down.


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[earplug]

I'd have the lady take a drive around a campground, looking around and asking questions.

[nisils14]

Turbo diesel anything is the only way to go for MPGs in a suv or truck.. I just recently bought Chevy Duramax Colorado. I average 24mpg with 50/50 city/hwy driving, touched 34mpg on the way back from springs too. Helped pull some shop equipment on 2.5k trailer, infotainment read 20mpg and that was during rush hour.

[Martinjmpr]

I 4th the ecodiesel. I had one and towed a bit. Temps climb quickly with any hill but level off just before overheating and cool quickly once it levels off.


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Engine or transmission temp? When I'm towing I'm not nearly as worried about the engine temp as I am the transmission. On my 4runners I ran a Scangauge II, which had the ability to monitor transmission fluid temps (TFT) and that proved to be very useful to me. It also helped me to know when to shift manually to a lower gear to try and keep the temp down (like the time we were climbing out of Death Valley in mid July with an 1100lb teardrop trailer - my trans temp hit its highest point ever at 268!)

I put the SGII on my Suburban and also used it to monitor the trans temp. Then my dashboard stepper motors went out (common issue on GMT-800 trucks) so I had the instrument cluster rebuilt (with green LEDs, too) and while it was there I had them add the transmission temp gauge (all Chevy/GM trucks are wired for the trans temp but the gauge itself is left off of the 5.3 equipped half tons for some stupid reason - 6.0 engines and up get the gauge, and that includes Escalades and Yukon Denalis.) Now I have two redundant ways of monitoring trans temp.

Speaking of which, nice thing about having a big V8 vs a V6 is that since the engine puts out more torque, the transmission doesn't have to do as much work. The hottest I've ever seen the transmission on the Suburban was maybe 210. Even cruising up to 11,000' with a 2,000 lb trailer and full of camping gear it rarely hits 200.

[Martinjmpr]

Speaking of shifting gears ... IMO people could get by with smaller tow vehicles if they took some time to understand a little bit about how engines and transmissions work. Unfortunately, it seems like too many people these days (yeah, I know I sound like I'm ranting like Dana Carvey's "Grumpy old man" skit on SNL) just think that the transmission goes into either Park, Reverse or Drive, they never think of any other gears. So, they get a trailer and they're headed up a steep hill and the transmission is constantly upshifting and then downshifting and every time it does that it gets a little hotter.

Then when they go downhill, instead of shifting to a lower gear to keep their speed down, they just keep it in drive and burn up the brakes. [facepalm]

I'll bet a lot of burned up transmissions, burned up brakes, and accidents with trailers could have been avoided if people just took the time to understand that driving with a trailer is not the same thing as driving without one. Unfortunately, the RV industry is only too happy to say "towing is easy, just hook it up and go!" and too many people just believe that without putting any real thought into how they need to modify their driving to account for that trailer behind them.

Since we own a small trailer (T@B) and are on a lot of Facebook groups, I've lost count of the number of times I've seen questions like this come up and it just makes me [Shake]. People (and, sorry for the stereotyping, but 90% of the time it's women) will say "I saw the cutest little trailer and I just had to have it. I've never towed anything before but the salesman assured me I could pull this trailer with my Subaru Forester 4 cyl." And when I try to point out that it might be prudent to get a bigger, more capable vehicle, they always say "but I don't like those because they don't get good MPG!" or "The manual says its rated to pull 2,000lbs and the sticker on my trailer says it's only 1600."

The thing about the internet is you can always find someone to tell you what you want to hear. Some people want to hear that yes, you can pull a 30' airstream with a mini cooper and I'll bet you can find someone on the internet who swears he has done it (or knows a guy who knows a guy who's done it. :rolleyes: ) And of course there's always the 'world traveler' who will jump in and say "over in Europe they tow trailers with small cars all the time!" (not pointing out that "over in Europe" most of the cars have manual transmissions that are not going to burn up if they're over stressed.)

I realize we've wandered far afield in this discussion, and I think there have been a number of good recommendations. I think the most important thing is that your widow friend needs to realize that pulling a 3500lb trailer is no joke and she needs an adequate vehicle in order to be safe. Pulling a 300lb utility trailer full of yard equipment in town is easy and you can probably do that with a volkswagen, but pulling a big, heavy travel trailer at 60+ MPH on the freeway requires a pretty serious commitment in terms of both equipment and knowledge.

[Goodburbon]

Engine temp.


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[hurley842002]

Turbo diesel anything is the only way to go for MPGs in a suv or truck.. I just recently bought Chevy Duramax Colorado. I average 24mpg with 50/50 city/hwy driving, touched 34mpg on the way back from springs too. Helped pull some shop equipment on 2.5k trailer, infotainment read 20mpg and that was during rush hour.

A Co-Worker just bought a Duramax Colorado, that thing is impressive, and likely what I would buy if I were in the market for a new truck.

[zulu01]

Thanks for all the suggestions and info. I am going to recommend something bigger with a V8. I'm thinking the Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 V8 or eco diesel might be a good option.

[jerrymrc]

Some people want to hear that yes, you can pull a 30' airstream with a mini cooper and I'll bet you can find someone on the internet who swears he has done it (or knows a guy who knows a guy who's done it. ) I saw a dodge minivan pulling a 24' airstream today on I25. They were going maybe 50 on level ground. I could not believe it. We went to a 98 12v dodge when we bought the 24' trailer. It weighed right at 6K. As has been said travel trailers are a brick. 8K of trailer with a car on it did not feel near as bad as my 6K brick. In the end speed is the enemy. @ 65 I got 17 go to 72-75 and it dropped to 11.